Firing Gun On Private Property (Read 11825 times)

nsainfreek

Firing Gun On Private Property
« on: April 19, 2015, 05:58:50 PM »
I did some searching on these forums and someone stated that you can fire a gun on private property as long as it is not visible to public (which would create a disturbance) and if the noise was controlled so you don't get a sound nuisance complaint. However, speaking to someone at Security Equipment Corp, I was told that discharging any firearm within city limits is illegal. I looked through the Hawaii Gun laws but am unable to find anything that states that. Anyone have any insight on this?

mauidog

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2015, 07:00:50 PM »
I did some searching on these forums and someone stated that you can fire a gun on private property as long as it is not visible to public (which would create a disturbance) and if the noise was controlled so you don't get a sound nuisance complaint. However, speaking to someone at Security Equipment Corp, I was told that discharging any firearm within city limits is illegal. I looked through the Hawaii Gun laws but am unable to find anything that states that. Anyone have any insight on this?

Take a look here:  https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=237.0
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

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Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 07:21:59 PM »
My understanding is pretty much the same. It is legal to discharge a firearm on your own property. Just don't let any bullets cross your property line.
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zippz

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 08:01:29 PM »
If you have some money or hardcore shooter, you could build a range at your home.  Build an indoor range in the house, usually in a basement, or some places sell shipping containers transformed into ranges.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

RSN172

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 08:25:56 PM »
I shoot my AR15, 9MM and .22LR in my backyard with no problems, But I live in Fern Forest on the Big Island with my closest neighbor over 400 yards away and the forest reserve in the back.  I also hear gun shots periodically from neighbors on both sides.  In fact one of my neighbors told me when I first moved there about 10 months ago that we watch out for each other here and all of us have guns.  What a difference from Oahu.  Reminded me of Molokai where I grew up and more than half the households had guns.

mauiboi9

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 08:57:54 PM »
If you have some money or hardcore shooter, you could build a range at your home.  Build an indoor range in the house, usually in a basement, or some places sell shipping containers transformed into ranges.

I dont know much houses in hawaii that have basements. But after reading this thread i remember seeing this on youtube quite a while ago. Yes i know that their state laws are probably different. But if there is a will there is a way. Guy must have some cool neighbors though. lol
Im a recoil junkie

nsainfreek

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 09:36:43 PM »
So if I live in Honolulu, would it be ok for me to discharge a firearm in my back yard as long as it is conceaeled from the public and I can control the sound as to not distrub a nuisance?

suka

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 09:44:09 PM »
So if I live in Honolulu, would it be ok for me to discharge a firearm in my back yard as long as it is conceaeled from the public and I can control the sound as to not distrub a nuisance?
if no one complains , than no one will come and check.

asinapple8805

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 10:18:35 PM »
I'll help you out a little.  You could read this statute and make of it what you will, or you could take the advice of random strangers on the internet that have no incentive or disincentive to properly advise you on the law.

HRS § 707-714. Reckless endangering in the second degree

(1) A person commits the offense of reckless endangering in the second degree if the person:
(a) Engages in conduct that recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.
(2) Reckless endangering in the second degree is a misdemeanor.

and here is the statute for first degree

HRS § 707-713. Reckless endangering in the first degree

(1) A person commits the offense of reckless endangering in the first degree if the person employs widely dangerous means in a manner which recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury or intentionally fires a firearm in a manner which recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury.
(2) Reckless endangering in the first degree is a class C felony.

zippz

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2015, 05:07:40 PM »
So if I live in Honolulu, would it be ok for me to discharge a firearm in my back yard as long as it is conceaeled from the public and I can control the sound as to not distrub a nuisance?

Should be okay if it's safe.  If you have homes downrange though, you'll need berms and baffles to contain any errant rounds.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

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Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2015, 05:29:56 PM »
Basically The noise must be kept down so no one can hear it
and the bullet can not leave your property.
and you need to have self containment so the round cant leave the property by accident.

at GTG's we have discussed about shooting inside houses and apartments. 22 9 & 45
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Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 07:54:29 PM »
(b) Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.
Could swear zoning comes into play here, that shooting in residential zoned areas is verboten, agricultural zoned areas is fine as long as the other issues are addressed.

That may be Hawaii county only though.

asinapple8805

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 08:46:09 PM »
Could swear zoning comes into play here, that shooting in residential zoned areas is verboten, agricultural zoned areas is fine as long as the other issues are addressed.

That may be Hawaii county only though.

In State v. Martins, 101 P.3d 671, 106 Haw. 62 (2004), the ICA decided on appeal a sufficiency of the evidence claim for Reckless Endangering in the Second.  I'll copy-paste parts of the case for you below.  You're welcome to make of it what you will.

Here are the Facts:

The charges against Martins arose out of an incident that occurred on May 15, 2000. At that time, Martins was living in his car.

Martins testified that he had driven to Nakalele Point on the evening of May 14, 2000. Martins planned to target shoot on the 15th. At approximately 10:00 a.m. on the 15th, Martins assembled his shotgun and placed his targets. Martins heard motorcycles approaching and walked up a hill to get to high ground.

Hazel Cappal (Cappal), Wilbert Pascua (Pascua), and Ross Baybado (Baybado) (collectively, dirt bikers) were in the area to ride a dirt bike. Cappal testified that when she **676 *67 and Pascua rode the dirt bike up a hill, they saw Martins. Martins repeatedly yelled at them, “[w]hat are you guys doing? Get off of my fucking land because of the cows are starving.” The land was not owned by Martins; the owner was Maui Land and Pine.

Cappal testified that she and Pascua walked the bike back to the truck at the bottom of the hill; while they were waiting for Baybado, she heard eight gunshots. Pascua testified that he and Cappal walked and rode the bike back to the truck; Pascua heard six to eight gunshots while he and Cappal were at the truck. Cappal and Pascua testified that they were scared when they heard the gunshots. Baybado testified that while he was hearing the gunshots, he was running to Pascua's truck because he was scared he “might get shot or something.”

The dirt bikers stopped at a vending stand on their way out, and Doreen Nakoa (Doreen), who ran the vending stand, called the police for the dirt bikers. When Martins drove by the vending stand about fifteen minutes later, Cappal got Martins' license plate number and gave it to the police.

The police stopped Martins' vehicle by the Honolua Bay lookout shortly thereafter, and the three dirt bikers identified Martins. Martins' car was towed to the Lahaina Police Station, and the police executed a search warrant on the car the following day. From the car the police recovered a Remington pump shotgun (not in a case), live ammunition and spent cartridge casings, a leafy vegetation believed to be marijuana, and a toiletry bag containing the components of a zip gun.



Here is the relevant part of the opinion (Part III-C):

C. Reckless Endangering in the Second Degree

23Martins contends the evidence was insufficient to support his conviction of Reckless Endangering in the Second Degree because the State failed to establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that his conduct recklessly placed another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury. Specifically, he asserts that the evidence was conflicting as to whether the area was populated and the evidence was insufficient to support that he shot in the direction of the highway. Reckless Endangering in the Second Degree, HRS § 707–714 (1993), requires:

§ 707–714 Reckless endangering in the second degree. (1) A person commits the offense of reckless endangering in the second degree if the person engages in conduct which recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury.

(2) For the purposes of this section and in addition to other applications, a person engages in conduct which recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury when that person intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.

(3) Reckless endangering in the second degree is a misdemeanor.

(Emphasis added.)

24When evaluating the sufficiency of evidence, we consider the evidence in the strongest light for the prosecution and evaluate whether there was “substantial evidence” (credible evidence which is of sufficient quality and probative value to support the conclusion of the trier of fact).Richie, 88 Hawai‘i at 33, 960 P.2d at 1241.

Cappal testified that the area was a “well-populated area, I usually see tourists out there, but not very many tourists. And as far as that area where we were dirt biking, usually just dirt bikers go in that area.” Doreen testified that during the day when she was at the vending stand, she saw four to five cars a day, averaging three to four people in each car, from a little before 12:00 until 4:30 p.m. Doreen also testified that she often saw people on motorcycles or dirt bikes riding in the area, more so on Mondays (May 15, 2000 was a Monday) and Fridays. From this testimony, the jury could have found that the area was populated.

Hawaii Revised Statutes § 707–714(2) requires that the shots be fired in a populated area or towards the direction of a highway. We conclude there was substantial evidence upon which the jury could have found that Martins discharged a firearm in a populated area.

suka

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 12:00:49 AM »
Could swear zoning comes into play here, that shooting in residential zoned areas is verboten, agricultural zoned areas is fine as long as the other issues are addressed.

That may be Hawaii county only though.

residential zoned and residential area area completely different.

A vacant land could be zoned residential but no one may actually live there.  (think of a new sub division of  Mililani Mauka in the 90's).

nsainfreek

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2015, 09:18:04 AM »
Thanks for all the info! I've read the other threads linked and the statute about reckless endangerment. I would think the only part that applies to me is discharging in a residential area. I live in Kalihi, so that is pretty much a residential area. I was thinking about building walls around parts of my backyard to suppress sound with a steel back stop just to shoot 22s. I figured that was enough, but when the guy and Security Equipment told me discharging a gun in city limits is just illegal I went back to the Hawaii Statutes but couldn't find anything.

asinapple8805

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2015, 09:55:21 AM »
Thanks for all the info! I've read the other threads linked and the statute about reckless endangerment. I would think the only part that applies to me is discharging in a residential area. I live in Kalihi, so that is pretty much a residential area. I was thinking about building walls around parts of my backyard to suppress sound with a steel back stop just to shoot 22s. I figured that was enough, but when the guy and Security Equipment told me discharging a gun in city limits is just illegal I went back to the Hawaii Statutes but couldn't find anything.

Just know that by discharging your firearm in your situation you will probably be in violation of the law.  Whether you get caught, prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced is a whole different story.

The court in the previously cited case didn't need to reach the definition of a residential area.  Rather, the court was satisfied by evidence that roughly 4 cars traveled on a road per day on average thereby finding that the area was "populated."

Keep in mind that, in that case, the firearm discharge took place near Nakalele Point on Maui.  I don't know the area personally, but a quick google maps satellite view doesn't reveal many houses anywhere in the vicinity.  Compare this to Kalihi, or any where in Honolulu for that matter, and I would imagine that a court would find that fact more than sufficient to satisfy that element.

This post was not meant to be a personal dig at you, but the way i see it, your proposed actions are unsafe.  You may try to argue that you plan on going forward in a way that you might deem safe and considerate to your neighbors, but that still leaves the possibility of an accidental discharge.  There are several ways that you can prevent an accidental discharge, which among others are: 1) not own a gun, 2) not own ammo, 3) if you own a gun and own ammo, then don't load ammo into your gun.

Although I'm not your neighbor, I probably wouldn't be too ecstatic if i was and i knew that you were discharging your firearm at your house.  Going back to my earlier point, I know that I can prevent bad things from happening that may be a result of my own actions to people i care about, but I am in far less control of other people when they choose to do things that could possibly harm me, or the people I care about.

If you got caught and your charge became public, how do you think the rest of hawaii, or even the world, would view firearm owners and firearm ownership?

new guy

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2015, 10:09:59 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 11:59:46 PM by new guy »
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dustoff003

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2015, 11:31:02 AM »
The whole island of Oahu is city limits hence the name City and County of Honolulu.

nsainfreek

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2015, 12:24:48 PM »
Ok, I understand what everyone is saying. Goal is to not endanger anyone but to be able to safely practice without have to go long distances. I was just trying to get clarification if it is indeed illegal to just discharge a firearm in city limits, since I could not find it mentioned in the statutes I was reading. I understand that safety is paramount to everyone here and am not trying to create any issues with gun owners. Tried to figure out if it was possible but it seems the consensus is no, I cannot do this even If I could somehow do it safely. Thanks for everyone's input.

new guy

Re: Firing Gun On Private Property
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2015, 12:35:12 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 11:59:24 PM by new guy »
Your mindset is your primary weapon. - Jeff Cooper