2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee (Read 7483 times)

Jl808

2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« on: January 25, 2016, 07:58:30 AM »
Unfortunately, both bills are anti-2A.    >:(

2016 PSM Committee
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=PSM&year=2016

Chair: Clarence Nishihara (rated B)
Vice-Chair: Will Espero (rated B-)
Member: Rosalyn Baker (rated F),
Member: Sam Slom (rated A+),
Member: Lorraine Inouye (rated F)

SB 783 RELATING TO FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=783
Mental Health; Firearm Permit Requirements; Psychological Clearance Requirements
Specifies that an additional penalty for refusal to submit to a breath, blood, or urine test and requires the surrender of all firearms and ammunition within possession. Requires firearms permit application forms to be accompanied by an affirmation that neither the applicant nor any family or household member is or has been diagnosed with or treated for certain mental disorders and that if the applicant or family or household member is subsequently diagnosed, the applicant shall lock and secure or surrender all firearms and ammunition within 48 hours. Requires payment of a fine of $50 per day of noncompliance with the requirement to lock and secure, or surrender, firearms and ammunition within 48 hours. Specifies failure to pay child or spousal support as a good cause for revocation of a firearm permit or license. Creates an exemption for law enforcement officers.

SB783 is also referred to TRE (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=TRE&year=2016) and JDL (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=JDL&year=2016) committees

SB2204 RELATING TO FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2204
Firearm Ownership; Restrictions; No Fly List
Restricts anybody included on the terrorist screening center's no-fly list from owning, possessing, or controlling a firearm or ammunition therefor.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 08:16:00 AM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Q

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 08:34:47 AM »
Will Espero's office was contacted; source was informed that SB 783 was introduced by Senator Maile Shimabukuro, at the 'request of a constituent'  :crazy:

Senator Maile Shimabukuro's office was contacted. Source was informed that she introduced this last year, but due to over 110+ pieces of testimony AGAINST this legislation, as well as receiving no support from the upper echelons of the committee it was introduced in, Senator Shimabukuro's office believes that this bill will be dead in the water.

I still advise we keep a watch on this bill, as the ambiguity of it's wording and potential interpretation can have extremely devastating effects.

dustoff003

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2016, 08:40:57 AM »
Here's what I found when I went to Maile's office last week on the 20th

Q

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 08:53:25 AM »
Here's what I found when I went to Maile's office last week on the 20th

You should call her office and complain.

MuffinMan

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 09:13:25 AM »
Even when she is in........She is 'Out to Lunch' :rofl: :wave: :wtf:

Jl808

2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 09:23:56 AM »
Question about the federal terrorist screening no-fly list:

1. Where is this list and who can view it?

2. What criteria is used for someone to be placed on the no-fly list?

3. If someone is mistakenly placed on the list by clerical error, what recourse does someone have to remove themselves from the list?

Wikipedia link about the no fly list.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Q

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 09:31:31 AM »
Question about the federal terrorist screening no-fly list:

1. Where is this list and who can view it?

2. What criteria is used for someone to be placed on the no-fly list?

3. If someone is mistakenly placed on the list by clerical error, what recourse does someone have to remove themselves from the list?

Wikipedia link about the no fly list.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

I read somewhere that the fbi is no longer removing people off the list, even if placement was a mistake

mauidog

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 09:49:40 AM »
Expanding a bad program/system won't make it better.


Until the No Fly List Is Fixed, It Shouldn’t Be Used to Restrict People’s Freedoms

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/until-no-fly-list-fixed-it-shouldnt-be-used-restrict-peoples-freedoms


What To Do If You Think You're on a No-Fly List

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fly-list
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

edster48

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 06:39:55 PM »
Question about the federal terrorist screening no-fly list:

1. Where is this list and who can view it?

Answer: DHS, TSA, other federal LE agencies. Not the general public or even a person that is on the list.

2. What criteria is used for someone to be placed on the no-fly list?

Answer: Somebody in the federal government doesn't like you, or your activities, or the people you associate with.

3. If someone is mistakenly placed on the list by clerical error, what recourse does someone have to remove themselves from the list?

Answer: Basically, none. You can complain to DHS, but there is no "procedure" for removal from the list.


Seems a bit Stalinesque doesn't it?

Wikipedia link about the no fly list.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

Jl808

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 02:51:12 PM »
For your reference, I've posted a new Google Spreadsheet listing the 2A related bills for this year. 

Take a look here -> https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=21792.msg196285#msg196285
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

HiCarry

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2016, 04:06:17 PM »
For your reference, I've posted a new Google Spreadsheet listing the 2A related bills for this year. 

Take a look here -> https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=21792.msg196285#msg196285

Add a new, yet to be numbered bill intorduced today by Sen. Josh Green. It seeks to require liability insurance for gun owners and a mandatory 5 year re-registration.

The insurance is a joke as most firearms issues are related to either suicide or criminal acts, neither of which would be covered by any liability insurance. And, in addition to the cost of the insurance, there would be a fee paid to the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs to establish a special fund, to "support programs in the public or private sectors that provide mental health safety; and enhance firearms safety."

As for the re-registration issue: HPD has testified in the past that they aren't in favor due to the increased workload. Which, makes sense. If you assume a million firearms (firearms, not firearms owners...) in Hawaii and that they would split that into 200,000 portions and do incremental re-registration, it would increase the workload almost 100% (19, 365 registrations in 2014, 22,765 in 2013, say 20K a year...). It would be almost impossible to maintain that level of work and then you have to think about how to pay for this. There are other reasons that this insurance thing is a bad idea, but two that immediately come to mind is that few, if any, crimes have ever been solved using data from Hawaii's firearms registration. And, in the US Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit, in "Heller II" ruled a 3 year re-registration unconstitutional.

 

mauidog

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2016, 04:31:24 PM »
Add a new, yet to be numbered bill intorduced today by Sen. Josh Green. It seeks to require liability insurance for gun owners and a mandatory 5 year re-registration.

The insurance is a joke as most firearms issues are related to either suicide or criminal acts, neither of which would be covered by any liability insurance. And, in addition to the cost of the insurance, there would be a fee paid to the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs to establish a special fund, to "support programs in the public or private sectors that provide mental health safety; and enhance firearms safety."

As for the re-registration issue: HPD has testified in the past that they aren't in favor due to the increased workload. Which, makes sense. If you assume a million firearms (firearms, not firearms owners...) in Hawaii and that they would split that into 200,000 portions and do incremental re-registration, it would increase the workload almost 100% (19, 365 registrations in 2014, 22,765 in 2013, say 20K a year...). It would be almost impossible to maintain that level of work and then you have to think about how to pay for this. There are other reasons that this insurance thing is a bad idea, but two that immediately come to mind is that few, if any, crimes have ever been solved using data from Hawaii's firearms registration. And, in the US Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit, in "Heller II" ruled a 3 year re-registration unconstitutional.

Watching "Making a Murderer" on Netflix this weekend, one issue came up when the guy was wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years, he filed a claim against the Sheriff and Prosecutor's offices for $18M for damages ($1M per year in prison) and another $18M for punitive damages because he civil rights were violated.

The narrator said ordinarily the city and county governments carry insurance to pay those kinds of claims, but in this instance, since there was evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the Sheriff and prosecutor, the insurance would ordinarily decline coverage.  They  aren't going to insure you so you can willfully break the law.

Same thing would apply here.  Insurance would cover accidentally shooting your upstairs neighbor while clearing a weapon to clean, but not if you shot him in an argument. 

I must have missed the news where there has been a massive number of negligent discharges sending innocent bystanders to the ER/Morgue.

Since most gun violence is, as stated, suicide, gangs, or career criminals, no insurance would pay .... assuming a policy existed at all!
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

macsak

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 05:09:05 PM »
split that into 200,000 portions and do incremental re-registration, it would increase the workload almost 100% (19, 365 registrations in 2014, 22,765 in 2013, say 20K a year...).

20,000 registrations --> 220,000 registrations (20,000 new and 200,000 renewals) = 1100 percent   :o
and how would they determine who has to renew when?
are guns registered before the law was enacted grandfathered in?

whynow?

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 05:20:57 PM »
Hopefully one of the 2A friendly legislators will push to amend SB783 to also include private vehicle ownership.  Guarans with that in there this bill will die quickly.   Probably personally affect many legislators too (LOL).
The majority of NY and CT gunowners did not comply with their new repressive anti gun laws, hopefully HI will do the same if faced with more repressive laws like getting liability insurance.   They can shove that deep.

RSN172

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 11:27:58 PM »
If that law passed, I wouldn't buy insurance.  I would wait until the state brought charges against me and then I would go see an attorney to contest it.  Maybe all gun owners could file a class action suit.  If all gun owners would throw in just $50 we could afford to tie this up in court for a long time as well as hire a top notch pro 2A attorney.  I personally don't think this stupid law will pass.

dustoff003

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 11:39:50 PM »

If that law passed, I wouldn't buy insurance.  I would wait until the state brought charges against me and then I would go see an attorney to contest it.  Maybe all gun owners could file a class action suit.  If all gun owners would throw in just $50 we could afford to tie this up in court for a long time as well as hire a top notch pro 2A attorney.  I personally don't think this stupid law will pass.
Wishful thinking good sir. We couldn't get more than a dozen folks to rally last week at the Capitol for the opening of the legislature.

We had a at least 12 folks there mostly the entire time and a few more came and went as their lives permitted there wasn't more that 20 total. 

Q

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 11:54:49 PM »
Add a new, yet to be numbered bill intorduced today by Sen. Josh Green. It seeks to require liability insurance for gun owners and a mandatory 5 year re-registration.

The insurance is a joke as most firearms issues are related to either suicide or criminal acts, neither of which would be covered by any liability insurance. And, in addition to the cost of the insurance, there would be a fee paid to the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs to establish a special fund, to "support programs in the public or private sectors that provide mental health safety; and enhance firearms safety."

As for the re-registration issue: HPD has testified in the past that they aren't in favor due to the increased workload. Which, makes sense. If you assume a million firearms (firearms, not firearms owners...) in Hawaii and that they would split that into 200,000 portions and do incremental re-registration, it would increase the workload almost 100% (19, 365 registrations in 2014, 22,765 in 2013, say 20K a year...). It would be almost impossible to maintain that level of work and then you have to think about how to pay for this. There are other reasons that this insurance thing is a bad idea, but two that immediately come to mind is that few, if any, crimes have ever been solved using data from Hawaii's firearms registration. And, in the US Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit, in "Heller II" ruled a 3 year re-registration unconstitutional.

Have no fear...Unko Q's source will be reaching out for a comment from his office and to clarify why this bill was introduced.

mauiboi9

Im a recoil junkie

RSN172

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2016, 06:05:15 AM »
Wishful thinking good sir. We couldn't get more than a dozen folks to rally last week at the Capitol for the opening of the legislature.

We had a at least 12 folks there mostly the entire time and a few more came and went as their lives permitted there wasn't more that 20 total.

Big difference between just sending in a check for $50 vs having to go down somewhere and stay for several hours.  I live on the BI and won't spend $200 for airfare, plus car rental etc to go to a rally, but I could certainly mail a $50 check for a class action suit.  Probably same for a lot of other gun owners who live on another island or have to work when the event is going on.  Plus mandatory gun insurance is going to cost a lot more than $50 plus the permitting and re-permitting/registration charges the idiots of this bill want to charge.  Gun shops would also have a big stake in this as well and support a class action suit.

zippz

Re: 2016 Firearms Related bills from PSM Committee
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2016, 05:14:37 PM »
Instead of requiring insurance for gun owners, how about we change to bill to require insurance from people planning to commit a crime?  That way we cover all the bases...guns, knives, bats, fists, dui collisions, etc.
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