Protecting property... (Read 1430 times)

Itsshowtime808

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Protecting property...
« on: April 26, 2021, 09:09:05 AM »
Aloha everybody,

Me and a friend had a discussion about protecting your property with a gun in Hawaii...

Do you guys think it’s justified if you use your gun (to shoot) to stop someone stealing your car at your house?  Private criminal or tow truck??

My friend thinks so, but I’m thinking you can’t...  since we are pro-criminal here... (in the state)

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Mahalos
 :shaka:

.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

omnigun

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2021, 09:14:22 AM »
Legally it is not ok.  If you are not doing it self defense be prepared to spend a long time in jail, and lose all your guns for life.

Ethically, that's your own opinion.  Depending on the crime the world will probably be a better place without another criminal.  Though its not our job to decide that, its the justice system.

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 09:23:40 AM »
Legally it is not ok.  If you are not doing it self defense be prepared to spend a long time in jail, and lose all your guns for life.

Ethically, that's your own opinion.  Depending on the crime the world will probably be a better place without another criminal.  Though its not our job to decide that, its the justice system.

That’s what I was thinking

So basically I told my friend, your rather serve jail time or just buy another car??

Will probably be less time working to save for another one then spending X amount of years...
.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 10:01:49 AM »
It is not legal to use deadly force to protect your property.  You can only use deadly force if you believe you are in danger of death, serious injury, kidnapping, rape, or sodomy.  See the HRS about it and read the other sections on use of force.

You can use "reasonable" force to protect your property.  But there is also a section in the HRS that states you must surrender your property upon demand as well.

changemyoil66

ren

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 10:35:52 AM »
Steps in getting robbed.
1. Show fear of the criminal.
2. Give up property to criminal
3. Get as much info about the criminal i e. physical description
4. Call 911
5. wait for an officer to arrive
6. file report
7. wait and hope for your property to be returned to you

Granted these steps may be null and void if the criminal decides to hurt or kill you.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 12:24:39 PM »
OP,

Since your friend is wrong and you are not 100% sure, I would recommend read the entire HRS 134.  I do this often myself, just to keep up to date on stuff.  And because it's written in legaleze, I have to read 1 sentence some times 4-5 times before I understand them.  Also look up any other HRS that would apply to you.

Here is a perfect example: Many people thought rifle mags were limited to 10 rds. HRS states "fits into a PISTOL".  Our HRS defines what a rifle is and even defines what an "assault pistol" is.  So because the current HRS sates only pistol, and not "pistol and/or assault pistol and/or rifle", this is why the mags have always been legal.  The reasoning that I always here is that assault pistols are illegal here, so that's why the mag law doesn't apply.  Which is not true.  And then add in the past 2 years, they tried to ban rifle mags by crossing out the word "pistol" and replaced it with "firearm" confirms what I said.


By me reading the HRS often, I also found out what a "deadly or dangerous" weapon is.  So the K-Bar TDI knife that I wanted to carry daily fits into that category.  So that is why I never purchased 1.  And when I do buy a folding knife, I make sure I read what the manufacturers description is.

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 12:29:08 PM »
It is not legal to use deadly force to protect your property.  You can only use deadly force if you believe you are in danger of death, serious injury, kidnapping, rape, or sodomy.  See the HRS about it and read the other sections on use of force.

You can use "reasonable" force to protect your property.  But there is also a section in the HRS that states you must surrender your property upon demand as well.

What’s considered reasonable force??  Baseball bat?  Blunt object?
.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 12:32:26 PM »
Steps in getting robbed.
1. Show fear of the criminal.
2. Give up property to criminal
3. Get as much info about the criminal i e. physical description
4. Call 911
5. wait for an officer to arrive
6. file report
7. wait and hope for your property to be returned to you

Granted these steps may be null and void if the criminal decides to hurt or kill you.

I like this layout  :rofl: :rofl:

I’ll send it to him :rofl: :rofl:

Hopefully the end of a barrel is good enough of a deterrent...  I feel like if they do get in your house, it’s game on though, fear for safety is automatic as you have no walls/door to protect you

I would rather go to jail than get killed...  that’s just me
.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2021, 12:45:10 PM »
My personal interpretation depends on what the definition of "property" is.

If property includes all your belongings -- cars, money, credit cards, cell phone, GUNS, AMMO, etc. -- then you are not allowed to use deadly force.  If the intention of the criminal is to simply take your stuff and leave you alone, then you are not justified in using deadly force.  This is particularly true if the thief is running away from you with your stuff.

If, however, property means your yard or home, then YES!  You can stop someone from entering your property if you believe their intentions are to harm you or your family/friends there.  The person coming onto your property can stand around and refuse to leave, and you can't use force.  Call 911. But, if you are in your house and they are trying to break in, you are free to assume they are going to assault and injure you.  Self defense is legal.

Best plan is to call 911 and LEAVE THE LINE OPEN.  Let the dispatcher and the 911 system record what's going on.  They'll record you warning the person to stop, to leave, and to come no closer, or else you'll shoot them.  There's a clear recording of the events to show you did everything right.

Also, make sure his fingerprints are on the large kitchen knife the Cops find next to the body.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 11:44:15 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2021, 12:45:29 PM »
What’s considered reasonable force??  Baseball bat?  Blunt object?

For specifics, you would have to read case notes.  But that's a bigger google than most people are able to do.  Some stuff on the HRS has case notes already on the bottom of the page.  Like the deadly weapon section.  Nun-chucks are not deadly nor dangerous weapons. And a diving knife is not considered a dagger (sharp on both sides).  Stuff that is also illegal to carry, dirk, dagger, billy, metal knuckles, blackjack.

 I'm no lawyer so take this with a grain of salt. I would say a bat is not reasonable force. But pushing or pulling might be,and probably punches and kicks. Now a blunt object, say you end up killing  the guy. The object falls into the "deadly or dangerous weapon" which would be an object used not for it's intended purpose. So you pick up a stabler and smash someone on the head with it. A staplers purpose is to staple stuff. Not smash in skulls.  Key would be what would a reasonable person under the same conditions do.   But then  you add into the "what if's", a female who is 5'1 and 95lbs using a bat against a 6'2, 300lbs person. 

Same goes with storing of firearms if no minors are present. Our HRS does not say you need a safe.  But what would a reasonable person do?  Would they leave their rifle on the kitchen table and then leave the home?  No they wouldn't.  But maybe inside the gun case in the closet. But if you got a good atty, they could argue that your doors are locked and windows closed, so your home is secure. But that would be a stretch.

stangzilla

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2021, 01:37:55 PM »
have gun on hip while trespasser is trying to steal property
trespasser, "you value your property more than someone's life."
me, "we are in agreement. you value my property more than your life."   ;)

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2021, 02:11:05 PM »
"you value your property more than someone's life."


That's another thing I can't stand that stupid people say.  Then you reply what your ethics are and they get all mad and say you have a  shame on you type attitude.

drck1000

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 02:13:30 PM »
in many areas of Texas, it is my understanding that you can. . .

here? well. . . :kickcan:

hvybarrels

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2021, 02:29:14 PM »
If you follow the news it becomes readily apparent that bodies are being discovered all the time, but rarely does the media provide context or follow up. I wonder about the ratio of how many are not discovered for every one that is found. It is likely that the lack of adequate stand your ground laws has created a clandestine culture of shoot, shovel, and shut up. This mistrust of law enforcement is extremely dangerous to a civilization by encouraging a parallel legal system run by the worst sort of people

RSN172

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2021, 03:03:09 PM »
I have a backhoe and have couple holes pre dug.  That's for my future tilapia pond I say.  Can't be too prepared where I live. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2021, 08:29:51 PM »
It is not legal to use deadly force to protect your property.  You can only use deadly force if you believe you are in danger of death, serious injury, kidnapping, rape, or sodomy.  See the HRS about it and read the other sections on use of force.

You can use "reasonable" force to protect your property.  But there is also a section in the HRS that states you must surrender your property upon demand as well.

As I understand it, you have to surrender your property but that is if someone has a claim to it. So you couldn't shoot or beat the repo-man for example.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2021, 08:33:27 PM »
Aloha everybody,

Me and a friend had a discussion about protecting your property with a gun in Hawaii...

Do you guys think it’s justified if you use your gun (to shoot) to stop someone stealing your car at your house?  Private criminal or tow truck??

My friend thinks so, but I’m thinking you can’t...  since we are pro-criminal here... (in the state)

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

Mahalos
 :shaka:

On the surface, no, you can't shoot someone just because they are stealing your car, even if it is in your driveway. But as with all legal things, it depends on the circumstances.

So say you walk outside to confront the thief and he pulls out a knife to scare you and he is in close proximity to you, then you could be in a justifiable use of force situation. Or say your child was sitting in the back seat while the thief is stealing the car, justified shooting. So it all depends how the situation plays out, the risk to you or another that factors in.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2021, 08:48:07 PM »
As I understand it, you have to surrender your property but that is if someone has a claim to it. So you couldn't shoot or beat the repo-man for example.
Theres a part that mentions "upon demand". Right of claim is abother section

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

RSN172

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2021, 08:52:14 PM »
CMO66,
I demand you give me all your money, guns and ammo.