Ahmaud Arbery (Read 4582 times)

aieahound

Ahmaud Arbery
« on: November 22, 2021, 01:44:09 PM »
Ahmaud Arbery trial.
Is there already a thread ?

My opinion manslaughter.

mrgaf

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 04:29:29 PM »
Ahmaud Arbery trial.
Is there already a thread ?

My opinion manslaughter.

+1
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2021, 07:10:00 PM »
I am thinking manslaughter too. It does seem like they had enough reason to be suspicious of him and to call the cops and even to follow him so they could report to cops where he went. Problem was when they jumped out with a gun to confront him.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 09:42:37 PM »
Georgia has a different murder statute than other states. There are no degrees of murder. It's felony murder or malice murder or manslaughter.

The prosecution doesn't have to prove intent. They don't have to prove that someone was a racist when they chased Ahmaud Arbery down the street. All they have to prove is that, in the heat of the moment, that there were bad assumptions made, that there were two different sets of opinions happening on the street that day, and they willfully killed someone because of bad assumptions.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/georgias-murder-statute-and-how-the-ahmaud-arbery-trial-may-play-out

The Citizen's Arrest law has since been repealed, but it stated at the time that the citizen must have seen a felony happen or have reasonable suspicion that a felony happened. Both of the McMichaels and Bryan have said they didn't see what had happened that day. So, to say they were making a citizen's arrest when Arbery attacked to gain possession of the shotgun is not covered under the law as it existed. 

« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 11:08:32 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2021, 09:03:36 AM »
While this and Kyle was going on, Epstein's head pimp jury selection is today.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 11:10:23 AM »
While this and Kyle was going on, Epstein's head pimp jury selection is today.

Probably should start another thread if you want to discuss yet another trial.  I have a feeling there may be a lot of scrambling to quash the reporting of things said in that courtroom.

 :shaka:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

ren

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 11:22:32 AM »
so if three black men chased a white man and killed him....
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 11:39:49 AM »
so if three black men chased a white man and killed him....

Blacks are in a protected class, as are all other minorities.

There has been much clamoring about the lower ratio in last year's census of Whites vs. Non-whites.  The people celebrating are missing the fact that once Whites are no longer the majority, they (we) qualify for special civil rights protections -- as a minority!   :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2021, 09:24:20 PM »
Georgia has a different murder statute than other states. There are no degrees of murder. It's felony murder or malice murder or manslaughter.

The prosecution doesn't have to prove intent. They don't have to prove that someone was a racist when they chased Ahmaud Arbery down the street. All they have to prove is that, in the heat of the moment, that there were bad assumptions made, that there were two different sets of opinions happening on the street that day, and they willfully killed someone because of bad assumptions.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/georgias-murder-statute-and-how-the-ahmaud-arbery-trial-may-play-out

The Citizen's Arrest law has since been repealed, but it stated at the time that the citizen must have seen a felony happen or have reasonable suspicion that a felony happened. Both of the McMichaels and Bryan have said they didn't see what had happened that day. So, to say they were making a citizen's arrest when Arbery attacked to gain possession of the shotgun is not covered under the law as it existed.

I can see how the guy with the gun gets charged with murder but I can't see how the other two got a murder charge. They were there and they were following Arbery but they didn't pull the trigger.

Honestly I haven't followed that trial closely so I don't know if there are other factors at play. Like if for example they yelled "shoot him" then now they are contributing.

Also, Arbery was supposed to be in the neighbors house for quite a while IIRC so I think they have a decent case to argue they had reason to be suspicious. I don't know how well they made that case though.

With all the terrible news reporting on the Rittenhouse case I need to find a good reliable news source to help me understand the Arbery case better.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2021, 09:56:45 PM »
I can see how the guy with the gun gets charged with murder but I can't see how the other two got a murder charge. They were there and they were following Arbery but they didn't pull the trigger.

Honestly I haven't followed that trial closely so I don't know if there are other factors at play. Like if for example they yelled "shoot him" then now they are contributing.

Also, Arbery was supposed to be in the neighbors house for quite a while IIRC so I think they have a decent case to argue they had reason to be suspicious. I don't know how well they made that case though.

With all the terrible news reporting on the Rittenhouse case I need to find a good reliable news source to help me understand the Arbery case better.

The three men acted in concert to chase, trap, and detain the deceased.  They all Intentionally aided or abetted the in the commission of the crimes right up until the shooting.

According to Georgia law O.C.G.A. §16-2-20, every person concerned in the commission of a crime is a party thereto and may be charged with and convicted of commission of the crime.

Georgia is actually more lenient than many states.  Georgia allows for defenses based on no criminal intent, that the associate was "just at the scene" but took no part in any facet of the crime, or didn't encourage the illegal acts. 

Some other states can charge you with the highest charge even if you decided to stay home but had a hand in planning or providing material support (with knowledge) to the crime.  I just heard of a guy who helped plan a robbery, decided the day of to stay in bed and not participate, and was later arrested when his co-conspirators told Cops he was in on the planning.  Imagine getting rousted out of bed by SWAT for your buddies' crimes committed while you slept!  In those cases, if you did nothing to prevent the crime or alert authorities prior to it, you can't claim you were not part of the conspiracy.

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

aieahound

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2021, 10:02:21 PM »
Also, Arbery was supposed to be in the neighbors house for quite a while IIRC so I think they have a decent case to argue they had reason to be suspicious.

When did they call 911 ?
And watch the video. It’s not long.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2021, 11:19:01 PM »
Also, Arbery was supposed to be in the neighbors house for quite a while IIRC so I think they have a decent case to argue they had reason to be suspicious.

"The Citizen's Arrest law has since been repealed, but it stated at the time that the citizen must have seen a felony happen or have reasonable suspicion that a felony happened."

Explain how "suspicious" translates into "reasonable suspicion that a felony happened."

What felony did they suspect him of committing?   The law is written so citizens don't try to arrest someone for minor crimes.  Trespassing, theft of some unknown property value and running are not felonies.  He was obviously incapable of carrying off much of anything to meet the requirement of felony theft.  There are several felony theft categories, but for this case, he would have had to have stolen property valued at $25,000.00 or more.  What could a man traveling on foot possibly be stealing in a home that's unoccupied which could be worth $25K?

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

aieahound

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 10:51:48 AM »
Guilty. Murder.
All three.

groveler

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2021, 11:17:59 AM »
Guilty. Murder.
All three.
That is what the jury said.  Although they made it political when they included the guy who just videoed
the crime. That is a stretch.

One thing that is for certain is, the four men should all be convicted of stupidity.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2021, 01:11:07 PM »
All three Ahmaud Arbery killers face life behind
bars after they're found GUILTY of his murder:
Cheers erupt in court after jury rejected their self-
defense claims against unarmed black jogger

Quote
The men face minimum sentences of life in prison. It is up to the judge to decide
whether that comes with or without the possibility of parole.

The three men have also been indicted on separate federal hate crime charges,
including interference with rights and attempted kidnapping. The McMichaels were
also charged with using, carrying, brandishing and discharging a firearm during
and in relation to a crime of violence. All three men pleaded not guilty.

The federal trial is set to take place in February. If convicted, they could each face
an additional penalty of up to life in prison. Since the defendants were being held
on state charges, a federal bond hearing has not been set.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10239523/Jury-reaches-verdict-Ahmaud-Arbery-trial-protesters-gather-outside.html
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 10:49:48 PM »
When did they call 911 ?
And watch the video. It’s not long.

I don't think they watched the video, just one of the neighbors saw Arbery go in the neighbors house.

IIRC they did call the cops, they claimed they were following so they could help police locate Arbery.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2021, 10:53:00 PM »
"The Citizen's Arrest law has since been repealed, but it stated at the time that the citizen must have seen a felony happen or have reasonable suspicion that a felony happened."

Explain how "suspicious" translates into "reasonable suspicion that a felony happened."

What felony did they suspect him of committing?   The law is written so citizens don't try to arrest someone for minor crimes.  Trespassing, theft of some unknown property value and running are not felonies.  He was obviously incapable of carrying off much of anything to meet the requirement of felony theft.  There are several felony theft categories, but for this case, he would have had to have stolen property valued at $25,000.00 or more.  What could a man traveling on foot possibly be stealing in a home that's unoccupied which could be worth $25K?

I am not commenting on whether they had probable cause or reasonable suspicion to stop the man. I just said they had reason to be suspicious. See an unknown man peeking around a neighbors house is enough to justify calling the cops. And legally they could get in their car and follow him to update on where he was going to cops could respond and investigate.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2021, 10:56:56 PM »
The three men acted in concert to chase, trap, and detain the deceased.  They all Intentionally aided or abetted the in the commission of the crimes right up until the shooting.

According to Georgia law O.C.G.A. §16-2-20, every person concerned in the commission of a crime is a party thereto and may be charged with and convicted of commission of the crime.

Georgia is actually more lenient than many states.  Georgia allows for defenses based on no criminal intent, that the associate was "just at the scene" but took no part in any facet of the crime, or didn't encourage the illegal acts. 

Some other states can charge you with the highest charge even if you decided to stay home but had a hand in planning or providing material support (with knowledge) to the crime.  I just heard of a guy who helped plan a robbery, decided the day of to stay in bed and not participate, and was later arrested when his co-conspirators told Cops he was in on the planning.  Imagine getting rousted out of bed by SWAT for your buddies' crimes committed while you slept!  In those cases, if you did nothing to prevent the crime or alert authorities prior to it, you can't claim you were not part of the conspiracy.

That would be my first suspicion, of course this is a little different than a premeditated crime. I know that generally all three had a role in following him but I don't know the specific details of what the two who didn't shoot Arbery did. Did they yell "shoot him" or something like that? Surely the prosecution must have had something of substance more than "lets follow this suspicious male". In all the articles I have read I didn't see the details of their charges. In know they didn't go on the stand.

If you witnessed a suspicious male coming out of one neighbors house and told another neighbor about the suspicious male but the neighbor kills him I just can't see justifying a murder charge just because you told the neighbor to watch the suspicious male.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2021, 11:41:47 PM »
That would be my first suspicion, of course this is a little different than a premeditated crime. I know that generally all three had a role in following him but I don't know the specific details of what the two who didn't shoot Arbery did. Did they yell "shoot him" or something like that? Surely the prosecution must have had something of substance more than "lets follow this suspicious male". In all the articles I have read I didn't see the details of their charges. In know they didn't go on the stand.

If you witnessed a suspicious male coming out of one neighbors house and told another neighbor about the suspicious male but the neighbor kills him I just can't see justifying a murder charge just because you told the neighbor to watch the suspicious male.

That was not the extent of the neighbor's involvement.  He used his truck to help stop Arbery.  I think the father even said Arbery was "trapped like a rat" between the trucks.

Quote
Nohilly said McMichael told him Arbery “wasn’t out for no Sunday jog. He was getting the hell
out of there.”

He told Nohilly that they started chasing Arbery to stop him from escaping, according to a transcript
of the interview the detective read in court.

He was trapped like a rat,” McMichael told the detective. “I think he was wanting to flee and he
realized that you know he was not going to get away.”

Nohilly testified that he asked McMichael why he was chasing Arbery, saying, “Did this guy break
into a house today?”

Well that’s just it, I don’t know,” McMichael said, according to a transcript.
https://nypost.com/2021/11/10/ahmaud-arbery-trapped-like-a-rat-before-being-killed-trial/


Here's a breakdown and explanation of each charge:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/arbery-case-charges-breakdown-of-the-charges
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 11:52:03 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ahmaud Arbery
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2021, 11:57:53 PM »
I am not commenting on whether they had probable cause or reasonable suspicion to stop the man. I just said they had reason to be suspicious. See an unknown man peeking around a neighbors house is enough to justify calling the cops. And legally they could get in their car and follow him to update on where he was going to cops could respond and investigate.

People who see suspicious activities or individuals can take pictures or video, write down license plates if they see any, write down times and actions .... and give that to the Cops after calling 911. 

Can't just follow people that are "suspicious" unless you can do so without interfering with them.  Unless you are law enforcement, the property owner or hired security., you have no business or authority to even ask someone what they are doing.  Observe, record, follow and report is all you can do.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall