Post by: robtmc on June 01, 2018, 05:57:29 PM
After some experimentation, I found decades of abuse to my shoulders (rotator cuff stuff) have gotten me quite stiff. Pulling a firearm clear of the holster with it at 3-3:30 was an exercise in creaking stiffness discovery. Doable, but no way would i clear the holster with alacrity. No tacticool leg drop stuff, in case we ever get CCW.
A long time ago, I had a 1911 with a Bianchi holster that could be mounted for cross draw. It was quite comfortable wearing it wandering the SoCal mountain back country (before modern hysteria).
Thinking again about that to deal with my bum shoulders and lack of flexibilty. I know there are issues with crossdraw and an assailant trying to pin you, etc.
Any thoughts from y'all that have experimented?
Post by: zippz on June 01, 2018, 06:23:06 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 01, 2018, 09:35:28 PM
Figure out where on your body the holster would be easiest to reach and draw from, and there is probably a holster made for that location. It may be you just need to move the holster forward a few inches to avoid the discomfort. If that spot is good for CCW, then a regular holster might be fine.
Small of the back is an option, too. Your elbow is to the side versus to the rear when drawing, so it's less twisty on the shoulder. Lots of articles out there on the evils of carrying there, but for some, it's the most comfortable place if your love handles are resting on a side holster. You'll need to get one set for the opposite direction of your side holster. Right handed draw needs a left-hand cant so the grip is to the right.
My daughter learned any style IWB holster was a pain for her, so she opted for a shoulder holster. Basically cross draw, and a light jacket or sweater makes concealing easy in Seattle.
That might not be feasible in Hawaii, but it could work if you wear a T-shirt under an unbuttoned aloha shirt.
Post by: drck1000 on June 02, 2018, 02:16:03 AM
Don’t know much at all about cross draw holsters, but in have some contacts with those that promote those. No personal experience with them though.
I assumed a bunch of LE used to carry with leather cross draw back in the day. But maybe too much Miami Vice. Haha.
Post by: oldfart on June 02, 2018, 06:03:09 AM
When I use a holster designed for behind-the-hip carry, I bend at the waist, forward-left about 45 degrees or more.
This makes the draw stroke much easier. It also puts you into a natural weight-forward aggressive shooting stance.
Beyond that, a Miami Vice shoulder rig is an extremely comfortable and practical way to CC a gun and lots of spare ammo and you don't even have to wear pants. You just need a light wind breaker jacket.
Another great option is a fanny pack holster. It is perfectly suitable for local style shorts, t-shirt, rubber slipper attire.
Post by: zippz on June 02, 2018, 06:56:59 AM
Post by: macsak on June 02, 2018, 07:06:28 AM
Figured it was way past time to make sure any pistol I may get were equipped with suitable holsters that I could use easily.
After some experimentation, I found decades of abuse to my shoulders (rotator cuff stuff) have gotten me quite stiff. Pulling a firearm clear of the holster with it at 3-3:30 was an exercise in creaking stiffness discovery. Doable, but no way would i clear the holster with alacrity. No tacticool leg drop stuff, in case we ever get CCW.
A long time ago, I had a 1911 with a Bianchi holster that could be mounted for cross draw. It was quite comfortable wearing it wandering the SoCal mountain back country (before modern hysteria).
Thinking again about that to deal with my bum shoulders and lack of flexibilty. I know there are issues with crossdraw and an assailant trying to pin you, etc.
Any thoughts from y'all that have experimented?
I prefer nice polite refined sophisticated careful delicate kind sensitive tactful holsters
Post by: oldfart on June 02, 2018, 08:22:06 AM
...
I prefer nice polite refined sophisticated careful delicate kind sensitive tactful holsters
You beat me to it :rofl:
Post by: robtmc on June 02, 2018, 09:20:42 AM
Something to consider is you won't be able to take firearm classes with a crossdraw or holster on the small of your back. Might be able to do it with appendix holsterSmall of the back? Hell, I can barely reach back there to scratch.
Understand the muzzle sweep aspect of cross draw, just looking for a method that works without yoga.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 02, 2018, 05:17:00 PM
Post by: Bushido on June 03, 2018, 07:05:55 AM
Post by: oldfart on June 03, 2018, 08:57:46 AM
My "strong side" shoulder is pretty screwed from many years of playing and coaching baseball. Drawing from 4:00 even with a cant is difficult. Appendix carry is very comfortable with the right setup....
Hmmm...appendix carry? Like this guy? :rofl:
Ouch
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/06/kat-ainsworth/video-holstered-pistol-discharges-negligent-or-accident/
Post by: ren on June 03, 2018, 09:08:46 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/58/e8/da/58e8dab2d792112593b7752a19b8cadd--leather-suspenders.jpg)
Post by: oldfart on June 03, 2018, 09:41:25 AM
It didn't take long for competition shooters to figure out that it was advantageous to draw straight up from your side.
Post by: macsak on June 03, 2018, 09:48:58 AM
...
Hmmm...appendix carry? Like this guy? :rofl:
Ouch
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/06/kat-ainsworth/video-holstered-pistol-discharges-negligent-or-accident/
"The bullet penetrated the carrier’s groin in a through-and-through wound"
through and through what?
Post by: oldfart on June 03, 2018, 09:53:59 AM
"The bullet penetrated the carrier’s groin in a through-and-through wound"...
through and through what?
Imagine a hot dog, microwaved on hi for 3 minutes. ..Eewww
Post by: drck1000 on June 03, 2018, 10:59:29 AM
...Yikes!
Hmmm...appendix carry? Like this guy? :rofl:
Ouch
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/06/kat-ainsworth/video-holstered-pistol-discharges-negligent-or-accident/
My first thought was his undershirt or something else got caught up in the holster. Have seen lots of videos where that happens with the jacket cord on 3 o’clock holsters.
Reading the comments is always both informative and entertaining. Lots of good discussion and jackassery.
Post by: drck1000 on June 03, 2018, 11:01:59 AM
...Was that the frank or the beans?
Imagine a hot dog, microwaved on hi for 3 minutes. ..Eewww
Post by: Bota-CS1 on June 03, 2018, 11:21:07 AM
Was that the frank or the beans?
Hopefully it hit the meat and didn't go anywhere near the hole :rofl:
There are some rotator cuff exercises that you can do at home that may help alleviate some of the pain and stiffness. Check with your doctor first though.
Post by: drck1000 on June 03, 2018, 11:29:12 AM
I have rotator cuff damage from years of Judo when I was younger and also separated shoulder. Thankfully on my left side (I’m right handed). But yeah, those exercises, or similar, helped me. Key was to try to maintain the range of motion and not let things lockup. I had a friend who had frozen shoulder and needed surgery. That looked painful.
Hopefully it hit the meat and didn't go anywhere near the hole :rofl:
There are some rotator cuff exercises that you can do at home that may help alleviate some of the pain and stiffness. Check with your doctor first though.
Post by: Bushido on June 03, 2018, 06:40:18 PM
...
Hmmm...appendix carry? Like this guy? :rofl:
Ouch
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/06/kat-ainsworth/video-holstered-pistol-discharges-negligent-or-accident/
Wow must be some $20 holster or user error. I was taught to holster an AIWB holster than put it in your pants, which he didn't. There's no way that gun fires if the trigger guard is completely covered on both sides and no clothing was snagged in the holster. Neither would happen if holstered before inserting into your pants with a quality holster IMO.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 03, 2018, 07:10:24 PM
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Post by: Bushido on June 03, 2018, 07:43:48 PM
Maybe he had a zev trigger? Seen those go off when the pin slides out slightly. Luckily the shooter was dry firing.
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i work with mechanical things for a living. Yes, I do realize they fail occasionally and they do happen. It takes a couple things to fail for many handguns to fire unintentionally. I trust my junk with what I own 100%. BTW I also subscribe to the thought there is no such thing as an AD but do believe in a ND.
Post by: robtmc on June 03, 2018, 08:20:45 PM
Back in the early days of IPSC shooting, crass :rofl: draw holsters were the accepted normal.Fast is not what concerns me. Reliability or being able to draw smoothly and without surprises. ISPC competition is not an objective.
It didn't take long for competition shooters to figure out that it was advantageous to draw straight up from your side.
Need to be confident in getting the weapon presented without unnecessary drama or physical glitches happening that stop or slow the draw. Yeah, I have bad shoulders and am a stiff olde farte.
I could do stretching until the cows come home, but would rather do other things, like explore alternative holster positions.
My holster selection would likely sit on the shelf considering no CCW in the near future, so this would be a grab and strap on if SHTF.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 03, 2018, 09:58:10 PM
https://www.flashbangstore.com
Post by: oldfart on June 03, 2018, 09:59:11 PM
IWB at 9 or 10PM position. Great for driving a car.
Butt might print though.
Miami vice lets you throw on gun Plus 2 mags fast and it balances out.
I used to sell all this stuff to local LEOs
Still have new old stock. What gun you got?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 03, 2018, 10:27:07 PM
https://youtu.be/8WgxUoky4kg
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 03, 2018, 10:30:58 PM
I'm sure they have one to fit you ...The mrs was looking at these. Or a ULTI clip, cause most of her shorts are not belt compatable
https://www.flashbangstore.com
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Post by: changemyoil66 on June 03, 2018, 10:37:04 PM
i work with mechanical things for a living. Yes, I do realize they fail occasionally and they do happen. It takes a couple things to fail for many handguns to fire unintentionally. I trust my junk with what I own 100%. BTW I also subscribe to the thought there is no such thing as an AD but do believe in a ND.I work on a computer all day and not mechanically educated. So your words are reassuring. Thanks. I can change my own oil though.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: zippz on June 04, 2018, 08:32:03 AM
Wow must be some $20 holster or user error. I was taught to holster an AIWB holster than put it in your pants, which he didn't. There's no way that gun fires if the trigger guard is completely covered on both sides and no clothing was snagged in the holster. Neither would happen if holstered before inserting into your pants with a quality holster IMO.
My guess is it was a Glock 19 in a Glock 26 open end holster. Bending down allowed the muzzle end to push the gun out of the holster and bending further down allowed the pants or belt buckle to touch the trigger.
Post by: drck1000 on June 04, 2018, 09:47:27 AM
Wow must be some $20 holster or user error. I was taught to holster an AIWB holster than put it in your pants, which he didn't. There's no way that gun fires if the trigger guard is completely covered on both sides and no clothing was snagged in the holster. Neither would happen if holstered before inserting into your pants with a quality holster IMO.The article mentioned an INCOG holster. I have one of the original versions and I've carried with it no problems. While I of course don't carry very often at all, it is my understanding that INCOGs are widely used and have gotten pretty good reviews. For my 17, it completely covers the trigger guard.
I've been to pistol classes where they had allowed AIWB holsters and having to holster a hot gun quite often. Hot in the sense of condition as well as hot after shooting courses of fire. I recall one guy burning his abdomen from the hot muzzle. :o I always wondered about the hazards of reholstering to an AIWB holster in a class like that, but like anything, assume you just have to be careful and aware. On many courses in the mainland, I recall jackets being something to be careful, even when using OWB holsters because it can get caught in the trigger guard, especially those cords that cinch down the area around the waist.
Post by: robtmc on June 04, 2018, 11:38:13 AM
I'm sure they have one to fit you ...Holsters for chicks?
You being a smartazz???
Post by: robtmc on June 04, 2018, 11:41:12 AM
Miami vice or fanny pack.I "might" get a Glock 30sf.
IWB at 9 or 10PM position. Great for driving a car.
Butt might print though.
Miami vice lets you throw on gun Plus 2 mags fast and it balances out.
I used to sell all this stuff to local LEOs
Still have new old stock. What gun you got?
"Might"
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 04, 2018, 12:38:35 PM
Holsters for chicks?
You being a smartazz???
If the bra fits! :rofl:
Post by: Drakiir84 on June 04, 2018, 01:57:05 PM
The article mentioned an INCOG holster. I have one of the original versions and I've carried with it no problems. While I of course don't carry very often at all, it is my understanding that INCOGs are widely used and have gotten pretty good reviews. For my 17, it completely covers the trigger guard.
I've been to pistol classes where they had allowed AIWB holsters and having to holster a hot gun quite often. Hot in the sense of condition as well as hot after shooting courses of fire. I recall one guy burning his abdomen from the hot muzzle. :o I always wondered about the hazards of reholstering to an AIWB holster in a class like that, but like anything, assume you just have to be careful and aware. On many courses in the mainland, I recall jackets being something to be careful, even when using OWB holsters because it can get caught in the trigger guard, especially those cords that cinch down the area around the waist.
I carried a G17 in an INCOG for about a year and a half, then carried a G19 with surefire XC-1 in an INCOG for about a year before I switched to a T-Rex Arms Sidecar that fits both guns with an X300-U. I'm not going to theorize on why the gun went off because it's a waste of time, will just hope that more information is released.... But I'll leave this here. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/06/glock-triggered-holstered/
Post by: drck1000 on June 04, 2018, 02:12:30 PM
I carried a G17 in an INCOG for about a year and a half, then carried a G19 with surefire XC-1 in an INCOG for about a year before I switched to a T-Rex Arms Sidecar that fits both guns with an X300-U. I'm not going to theorize on why the gun went off because it's a waste of time, will just hope that more information is released.... But I'll leave this here. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/06/glock-triggered-holstered/I've only tried T-Rex's OWB holsters. Been using mostly Safariland recently, but I should give the T-Rex stuff more time. They seem well made, but just haven't used them that much. I got a Ragnarok for my G17 (gun only) and G17 with X300. I'd be down to try one of their Sidecars or something from Bravo as well. Now that I have the G17 slide back with the RDS, I probably will make time to shoot that more often. Too bad no fun shoot for a while. I guess I could always offer it up to be shot at the SSF. That would be a good test of durability. ;D
On that "Glock Triggered" thing, didn't we discuss that here? I thought we did. Or maybe it was on another forum. I have only tried the Zev disconnector on my G34. Haven't changed anything trigger wise beyond that.
Post by: drck1000 on June 04, 2018, 02:13:23 PM
Crass draw. Just noticed that. . . :facepalm:
I prefer nice polite refined sophisticated careful delicate kind sensitive tactful holsters
Post by: Drakiir84 on June 04, 2018, 03:30:26 PM
I've only tried T-Rex's OWB holsters. Been using mostly Safariland recently, but I should give the T-Rex stuff more time. They seem well made, but just haven't used them that much. I got a Ragnarok for my G17 (gun only) and G17 with X300. I'd be down to try one of their Sidecars or something from Bravo as well. Now that I have the G17 slide back with the RDS, I probably will make time to shoot that more often. Too bad no fun shoot for a while. I guess I could always offer it up to be shot at the SSF. That would be a good test of durability. ;D
On that "Glock Triggered" thing, didn't we discuss that here? I thought we did. Or maybe it was on another forum. I have only tried the Zev disconnector on my G34. Haven't changed anything trigger wise beyond that.
You can put it on my station, I'll have my 'Fauxland special' as well. I'm also on the Safariland kick, was just waiting for a good sale and got the 6354 DO for 25-30% off a few months back. The Ragnarok, Sidecar and 6354 can all holster my light-bearing 19 or 17 since they latch onto the X300-U. Added the QLS fork to the 6354 and ragnarok to switch between belts rigs. Good times.
Post by: drck1000 on June 04, 2018, 03:38:38 PM
You can put it on my station, I'll have my 'Fauxland special' as well. I'm also on the Safariland kick, was just waiting for a good sale and got the 6354 DO for 25-30% off a few months back. The Ragnarok, Sidecar and 6354 can all holster my light-bearing 19 or 17 since they latch onto the X300-U. Added the QLS fork to the 6354 and ragnarok to switch between belts rigs. Good times.Check out HolsterOps. They carry a lot of Safariland stuff and have sales quite often.
Post by: Drakiir84 on June 04, 2018, 03:39:57 PM
Check out HolsterOps. They carry a lot of Safariland stuff and have sales quite often.
I'm not allowed to buy anything for a while lol.
Post by: drck1000 on June 04, 2018, 03:44:28 PM
I'm not allowed to buy anything for a while lol.Give me $$$ and I’ll order for you. :thumbsup: :shaka:
Post by: robtmc on June 04, 2018, 03:54:44 PM
Crass draw. Just noticed that. . . :facepalm:So did I......How many spell check their titles? Mind is on what you are going to post ..............
Post by: drck1000 on June 04, 2018, 03:58:03 PM
So did I......How many spell check their titles? Mind is on what you are going to post ..............
Haha. Yeah. Fingers typing what subconsciously on the mind.
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 04, 2018, 05:50:55 PM
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Post by: Eric808 on June 05, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
I prefer nice polite refined sophisticated careful delicate kind sensitive tactful holsters
:worship: :worship: :worship: Kelly Clarkson
Post by: robtmc on June 09, 2018, 12:23:21 PM
Might not need CROSS draw after all, just needed a holster that sat right and I did not have to hunt around for the release like the SERPA stuff.
The Bianchi 7L I got was a farce. Supposed to be able to use it cross draw, but it was not right. Too hard to pop the thumb snap in any orientation. Strap was an enormous drag on the draw unless you took the time to tug it out of the way.. Prompt drawing was almost out of the question unless I took my time about it. Good thing it was cheap for a leather holster. Not looking to be Doc Holliday, but do not want to get bogged down fighting the holster.
Anyone want an unused Bianchi 7L holster for e Glock 30, let me know. You pay shipping only.
Almost was ready to stick with the little non-retention plastic Glock holster. Thems the breaks of buying a gun not in the mainstream where there are lots of options.
Post by: drck1000 on June 09, 2018, 01:07:23 PM
Is the version you have on the belt line? A little drop might help with shoulder flexibility issues. Not sure about where concealability factors in, but the drop is likely harder to conceal.
Post by: robtmc on June 09, 2018, 05:01:01 PM
I like Safariland with ALS. I used to have them with SLS, but I like the ALS better. I have them on my training belt with a drop attachment. Makes it easier with it being maybe 2-3 “ lower.Have the belt loop rig on for now. It sits maybe1-2" lower than what I have tried, especially as where you hand goes to start is where the draw starts, so to speak..
Is the version you have on the belt line? A little drop might help with shoulder flexibility issues. Not sure about where concealability factors in, but the drop is likely harder to conceal.
The straight up pull and lack of snap to fiddle with are nice. Just a simple continuous motion. Stopping to farque with the thumbsnap with shoulder tensed up just aggravated issues.
The Safariland instructions suggest practicing the draw to achieve 2 seconds or less.. Never had a holster come with that sort of tip before.
Comes with both a paddle and belt loop gizmo. Put the belt loop on for now set it up on a belt with double magazine holder. For SHTF, grab and belt up, even if buck nekkid.
Hard to believe a portly little 30 could be concealed with what I normally wear, but the paddle is there as an option. A fanny pack is more likely but certain to be a cop magnet.
Maybe we should all start using them for wallet and stuff to de-sensitize cops so they will not have an easy excuse to start shooting when they see you reach to pay the tab?
"The waiter brought the bill to the next table and "I was afraid for my life!"
No CCW likely in my lifetime if I stay here, so not a big concern.
Post by: drck1000 on June 10, 2018, 10:52:55 AM
Have the belt loop rig on for now. It sits maybe1-2" lower than what I have tried, especially as where you had goes to start is where the draw starts, so to speak..Gotcha. Hit me up if you’d like to try a drop attachment. I think I have a spare Safariland one for belt mount. For me, the drop attachment helps keep the gun at a more neutral position for my elbow in terms of hand placement to get to the draw and space for the draw. Belt level is ok, but little cramped home draw. Drop leg makes me sort of have to tilt at the waist to get to.
The straight up pull and lack of snap to fiddle with are nice. Just a simple continuous motion. Stopping to farque with the thumbsnap with shoulder tensed up just aggravated issues.
The Safariland instructions suggest practicing the draw to achieve 2 seconds or less.. Never had a holster come with that sort of tip before.
Comes with both a paddle and belt loop gizmo. Put the belt loop on for now set it up on a belt with double magazine holder. For SHTF, grab and belt up, even if buck nekkid.
Hard to believe a portly little 30 could be concealed with what I normally wear, but the paddle is there as an option. A fanny pack is more likely but certain to be a cop magnet.
Maybe we should all start using them for wallet and stuff to de-sensitize cops so they will not have an easy excuse to start shooting when they see you reach to pay the tab?
"The waiter brought the bill to the next table and "I was afraid for my life!"
No CCW likely in my lifetime if I stay here, so not a big concern.
Post by: zippz on June 10, 2018, 11:17:50 AM
The Bianchi 7L I got was a farce.
That was my first holster when I got my first handgun. It was alright for concealed carry use. But the angle did make it a little awkward to draw and remove the thumbreak. It works with practice. Thumb breaks as a whole take practice to snap off quickly.
If the button is difficult, you can wear it in and also apply graphite or pencil lead to help
Post by: Rocky on June 10, 2018, 12:42:29 PM
Gotcha. Hit me up if you’d like to try a drop attachment. I think I have a spare Safariland one for belt mount. For me, the drop attachment helps keep the gun at a more neutral position for my elbow in terms of hand placement to get to the draw and space for the draw. Belt level is ok, but little cramped home draw. Drop leg makes me sort of have to tilt at the waist to get to.I was given an Uncle Mikes crossdraw, sold immediately.
And I stopped using my Serpa awhile back in trade for a SL.
Liked the thumb release a lot better.
Utilizing the -2"drop attachment only speeded up my draw. ;D
Post by: robtmc on June 10, 2018, 02:11:23 PM
That was my first holster when I got my first handgun. It was alright for concealed carry use. But the angle did make it a little awkward to draw and remove the thumbreak. It works with practice. Thumb breaks as a whole take practice to snap off quickly.Suppose I could have learned to deal with the strap, but having to do it near the top of the height I can raise my hand was a non-start. The strap on my ancient Bianchi 111 cyclone is much better, but still slows things down.
If the button is difficult, you can wear it in and also apply graphite or pencil lead to help
The ALS dropped the gun position a good ways alone, and not having to shift grip to fiddle the release is all it takes.
Post by: robtmc on June 10, 2018, 02:13:57 PM
Gotcha. Hit me up if you’d like to try a drop attachment. I think I have a spare Safariland one for belt mount.Different island, would not want you to be shipping stuff for me to fiddle. Not that expensive if I looked at the right thing on Amazon. Lots of bits and pieces in the picture.
https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-HDA-KIT-6281HDA-Adapter-HDA-KIT-LH/dp/B0048KCRS6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1528676002&sr=8-9&keywords=safariland+holster+drop (https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-HDA-KIT-6281HDA-Adapter-HDA-KIT-LH/dp/B0048KCRS6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1528676002&sr=8-9&keywords=safariland+holster+drop)
Post by: drck1000 on June 10, 2018, 02:26:48 PM
Different island, would not want you to be shipping stuff for me to fiddle. Not that expensive if I looked at the right thing on Amazon. Lots of bits and pieces in the picture.Ahh. Ok. I thought you were on Oahu. Maybe thinking of a different guy.
https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-HDA-KIT-6281HDA-Adapter-HDA-KIT-LH/dp/B0048KCRS6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1528676002&sr=8-9&keywords=safariland+holster+drop (https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-HDA-KIT-6281HDA-Adapter-HDA-KIT-LH/dp/B0048KCRS6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1528676002&sr=8-9&keywords=safariland+holster+drop)