Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo (Read 7983 times)

kala201

Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« on: February 26, 2012, 09:22:34 PM »
Is it legal to possess, let alone use, less than lethal shotgun rounds?  You know the one with rubber pellets or rubber slugs.  I was going to order some, but figured I'd better refer to a higher power first.  :worship:  :shaka:

2aHawaii

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Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 04:53:04 AM »
I don't see any reason they aren't legal. Beyond that, why would you want to use "less lethal" ammo? The only time you'd be able to use it is under the same circumstances you'd be using normal ammo.
I am not a lawyer.

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kala201

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 06:53:51 AM »
My primary concern is over penetration.  We used to live in multi unit townhouse and sending rounds through to my neighbors or outside the unit always weighed on my mind.  I'm not saying rubber rounds solves that problem but it makes me feel better.

The other concern that I started to think about, but I could be worrying over nothing (I haven't done any research into it yet), is that if I were to shoot and kill someone in self defense would I leave myself open to a civil suit.  Again I may just be over thinking things, provided it was a justified shoot could I still be sued?  You know how these people get, "oh he was a good guy who never did wrong" or "he was the sole provider for his family and he didn't want to hurt anybody" type of deal.  My other half starting me thinking that rubber ammo is just a more potent less than lethal defense tool than pepper spray.

If i needed to protect my family or loved ones I have no problem with 00 buckshot.  But in light of the society we live in here in Hawaii it really makes my head hurt.  It just seems the bad guys catch all the breaks.  I practice running my pump action shotty where I load a round straight into the breech or fed tube, so I am confident in that ability.  I could add a different type of load if need be.  Those are just my thoughts.  I was also thinking of buying a .410 shotgun and using that for my primary home defense gun.

Kingkeoni

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 08:16:09 AM »
Less than lethal ammo is designed for LE agencies to control rioters and for corrections officers to control rowdy prisoners.

It is NOT designed to protect you from someone who has broken into your house with the intent to kill or rape you and your family.

If "over penetration" is a concern to you, use #3 or #4 buck shot.

Another option is to use reduced recoil 00 to manage penetration.

The biggest reason that people use shotguns for HD is the fact that you get maximum effectiveness with minimum overpenetration.

The last thing you should be concerned with is what a "good guy" the burglar in your house is.  :wtf:

I am a father and a husband. My primary job in life is to provide for and protect my family. I damn sure am not going to be wondering if the guy who just broke into my house is a "good guy".

As you stand there trying to ascertain how good the guy who broke into your house is, he will be thrusting his buck knife into your abdomen.

 Bottom line, forget about loading your shotgun with rubber pellets and load it with something like buckshot, that will preserve and protect you and your families life.
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Dblnaknak

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 08:33:31 AM »
Dead men tell no lies. You are more likely to get sued if he survives. With all justified shootings a threat must be present that was equal to the amount of force used. You can't shoot someone that is simply robbing your house. The robber must have a deadly weapon and is threatining to use it against you or your family. The key phrase that they will use in court is; what would a reasonable person of sound mind do in your situation? Was the force used justified? Were the other options available? By all means don't shoot someone unarmed, or in the back... In Hawaii you will go to prison and become bubbas bitch.

kala201

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 12:05:04 PM »
You guys are all probably right and I am probably just over thinking things.  The shotgun has always been my choice for home defense, but in the suit happy world we live in and the fairly anti-gun sentiment of Hawaii I started looking at what else was out there.

The topic of justified shoot is addressed in a court of law.  The second concern I mentioned is related to civil court.  The two will be tried as two separate cases.  This is where I need to do more research.  Like KK said I shouldn't be worried about how good a guy the intruder is or whose son or father he maybe, but the fact that he looking to harm my family.  And believe me pulling the trigger and shooting another human being will always be my last resort, or at least I hope it will be should I ever find myself in that situation.  I just don't want to list my house and my kid's savings to some loser and his good for nothing family because the court feels sorry for them.

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Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 12:15:43 PM »
Dead men tell no lies. You are more likely to get sued if he survives. With all justified shootings a threat must be present that was equal to the amount of force used. You can't shoot someone that is simply robbing your house. The robber must have a deadly weapon and is threatining to use it against you or your family. The key phrase that they will use in court is; what would a reasonable person of sound mind do in your situation? Was the force used justified? Were the other options available? By all means don't shoot someone unarmed, or in the back... In Hawaii you will go to prison and become bubbas bitch.

That's what exactly one of my lawyer friends at the procescutor's office just told me.  He said Hawaii is NOT LESS THAN Lethal friendly.
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Funtimes

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 01:40:26 PM »
A reasonable person would have shot him with something to stop the threat and stop the attack. Don't use fake bullets, if the situation isn't good enough to stop the person dead - you never had a reason to use lethal force anyways.

Less lethal force could be lethal, especially from a shotgun (i.e. you shot the guy in the head or throat).

Real guns need real bullets, unless it is 'training' or 'crowd control.'

kala201

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 04:33:33 PM »
That's what exactly one of my lawyer friends at the procescutor's office just told me.  He said Hawaii is NOT LESS THAN Lethal friendly.

When you put it that way I guess I will forgo the rubber ammo and downgrade as KK suggested or look at buying a .410 shotgun.  Which might be more Mrs friendly anyways.  Thanks guys I justed needed some convincing that that wasn't they way to go.  :shaka:

rswarrior1700

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 09:31:15 PM »
When you put it that way I guess I will forgo the rubber ammo and downgrade as KK suggested or look at buying a .410 shotgun.  Which might be more Mrs friendly anyways.  Thanks guys I justed needed some convincing that that wasn't they way to go.  :shaka:

Just get a 12 gauge and be done with, because you get more better choice of ammunition.

rswarrior1700

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 09:34:04 PM »
Just get a 12 gauge and be done with, because you get more better choice of ammunition.

Also if you still thinking about non lethal rounds think aboout an
1. OD meth head (rubber bulltes will just sting them)
2. group of home invaders (with lethal ammo you permanantly elimate the number of threats)

kala201

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 08:19:42 AM »
I already have a 12 gauge shotty.  My mossberg 500 has been my home defense gun for a awhile now.  I was just unsure my choice of ammo.

rswarrior1700

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 11:28:47 AM »
I already have a 12 gauge shotty.  My mossberg 500 has been my home defense gun for a awhile now.  I was just unsure my choice of ammo.

Go low recoil 00 buck

Funtimes

Re: Less Than Lethal Shotgun Ammo
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 05:40:25 PM »
As KK said, #3 or #4 might be a good option. That's I have been recommended for not just punching all the way through my walls :P.   

Sounds like we might have a "test" to do and figure out how far that some shots will go for testing purposes.