I’m not saying that’s what happened in this situation since I’m not a medical professional, but it’s really odd how the kid was cut into pieces and sold off in less than a week. Apparently our “donated” organs are worth potentially millions of dollars to the medical establishment, and once you have it listed on your identification it’s very difficult to get it removed.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/09/13/enough-is-enough-west-oahu-residents-call-end-gun-violence-following-teens-death/

https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/shows/good-morning-chd-2024/brain-death-fraud

I watched a video explaining how a doctor tries to determine brain death before a decision is made to turn off life support. There were a number of tests he showed but it seemed to be not a perfect science. The possibility of being wrong is scary and organ harvesting make it prime for theories of organ harvesting.

I watched a video explaining how a doctor tries to determine brain death before a decision is made to turn off life support. There were a number of tests he showed but it seemed to be not a perfect science. The possibility of being wrong is scary and organ harvesting make it prime for theories of organ harvesting.

My grandfather was brain dead due to a stroke.  Machines were breathing for him and kept him alive in the hospital.  1 test the doc did was to turn off all the life support machines.  If his body responded by showing signs of struggling for air (reflex) or brain activity, then it was a sign that he wasn't brain dead.  He showed zero reflexes when they turned the machines off.  They repeated this a few times.  Then suggested that we "pull the plug".

To some medical staff you're a patient.

To others you're just a big pile of money sitting on the exam table.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/canada-is-turning-its-assisted-suicide-regime-into-an-organ-donation-supply-chain/

To some medical staff you're a patient.

To others you're just a big pile of money sitting on the exam table.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/canada-is-turning-its-assisted-suicide-regime-into-an-organ-donation-supply-chain/

And you thought Soilent Green was fiction? 

It's all part of the plan.

My grandfather was brain dead due to a stroke.  Machines were breathing for him and kept him alive in the hospital.  1 test the doc did was to turn off all the life support machines.  If his body responded by showing signs of struggling for air (reflex) or brain activity, then it was a sign that he wasn't brain dead.  He showed zero reflexes when they turned the machines off.  They repeated this a few times.  Then suggested that we "pull the plug".

I met a guy whose son was in the ER for a drug overdose. He appeared to be brain dead but was "alive" on a ventilator and the dad made the decision to take him off life support and it took a few hours for the heart to stop all signs of life. When it is an elderly person it is sad but when it is a younger person the call is that much tougher. Pull the plug too early on the elderly person and you may rob them of a few years of life but do it on a young person and you may be robbing them of 60 years. There are always those stories of someone in a coma for a decade and miraculously wake up one day, I would hate to be wrong when making such a call.

The video I mentioned showed doctors using various stimulus on parts of the body, like hitting certain nerve areas with a pointy instrument to see if there was reaction and there was at least 6 different measures they looked at.

I met a guy whose son was in the ER for a drug overdose. He appeared to be brain dead but was "alive" on a ventilator and the dad made the decision to take him off life support and it took a few hours for the heart to stop all signs of life. When it is an elderly person it is sad but when it is a younger person the call is that much tougher. Pull the plug too early on the elderly person and you may rob them of a few years of life but do it on a young person and you may be robbing them of 60 years. There are always those stories of someone in a coma for a decade and miraculously wake up one day, I would hate to be wrong when making such a call.

The video I mentioned showed doctors using various stimulus on parts of the body, like hitting certain nerve areas with a pointy instrument to see if there was reaction and there was at least 6 different measures they looked at.

Context matters.  Was it an illegal drug overdose cause by him doing it to himself?  Or a legal drug overdose and a mistake was done with consumption?

Context matters.  Was it an illegal drug overdose cause by him doing it to himself?  Or a legal drug overdose and a mistake was done with consumption?

What also matters is how long the parents could afford to keep the son on life support.  i'm sure insurance coverage would have limits.  GoFundMe is not reliable, especially iff the cause was an addiction or attempted suicide.

Once a patient is admitted, the responsible party must sit down with the intake personnel where they discuss treatment, costs, insurance coverages and alternatives.   i'm sure many parents would have a tough time deciding to keep someone alive beyond what their resources allow in the face of a single-digit chance of recovery.

Context matters.  Was it an illegal drug overdose cause by him doing it to himself?  Or a legal drug overdose and a mistake was done with consumption?

It was an illegal drug IIRC as he had a drug problem. There was no suspicion of hospital malice or mistake in that incident.

It was an illegal drug IIRC as he had a drug problem. There was no suspicion of hospital malice or mistake in that incident.

I'm glad his dad made the smart decision that helps many others.

I'm glad his dad made the smart decision that helps many others.

I hope it did, I have no idea whether a drug addict's organs would even have much value considering potential damage from substance abuse.

I hope it did, I have no idea whether a drug addict's organs would even have much value considering potential damage from substance abuse.

I'm not talking about that.

I'm not talking about that.

No part of his story is relevant to the topic.  Not once did EEF say whether or not the OD patient was an organ donor.

Seems like a topic on organ harvesting fraud would need to be tied to a case of actual organ harvesting.

Simply taking someone off of life support might seem relevant, but that happens all the time whether or not the patient is a donor.

Now, if he saw a non-donor go through that same battery of tests as described to determine brain death, but a donor patient only had one simple test performed, that would be much more relevant.  if they all get the same tests, then there's no value added from that story.

But, we'll never know apparently.

* The concept of "brain death," introduced in 1968 to enable organ harvesting, has never been proven equivalent to actual death—it merely defines an irreversible coma.

* Documented cases exist of "brain dead" patients who were conscious, including some who mouthed "help me" as their organs were nearly harvested.

* Global organ shortages have fueled a black market, with an estimated 5–20% of transplants involving illegal procurement and added pressure to lower diagnostic standards for “brain death.”

* Recent federal investigations found serious failures in the U.S. organ donation system: 29.3% of reviewed cases showed troubling signs, and 20.8% of patients had neurologic activity incompatible with procurement—yet transplant coordinators still pushed to proceed.

* Organ recipients face lifelong challenges, including the little-known phenomenon of adopting personalities and memories from the donor.

* Safer, ethical alternatives exist—such as natural therapies like DMSO that have revived “brain dead” patients and restored organ function, removing the need for transplant.

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/the-hidden-crisis-in-organ-transplantation

* The concept of "brain death," introduced in 1968 to enable organ harvesting, has never been proven equivalent to actual death—it merely defines an irreversible coma.

* Documented cases exist of "brain dead" patients who were conscious, including some who mouthed "help me" as their organs were nearly harvested.

* Global organ shortages have fueled a black market, with an estimated 5–20% of transplants involving illegal procurement and added pressure to lower diagnostic standards for “brain death.”

* Recent federal investigations found serious failures in the U.S. organ donation system: 29.3% of reviewed cases showed troubling signs, and 20.8% of patients had neurologic activity incompatible with procurement—yet transplant coordinators still pushed to proceed.

* Organ recipients face lifelong challenges, including the little-known phenomenon of adopting personalities and memories from the donor.

* Safer, ethical alternatives exist—such as natural therapies like DMSO that have revived “brain dead” patients and restored organ function, removing the need for transplant.

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/the-hidden-crisis-in-organ-transplantation

Skip to SUMMARY if not interested in the story.

You should refresh your memory of the Terri Schiavo case.  I halfway followed it in the news, but the articles and news segments following her public case bring up many moral, legal and medical questions.

The number one issue is whether the PATIENT wishes to be sustained through extraordinary means, or if they would rather not burden their family with the decision to keep them alive against very low odds of ever having a normal life again or to simply let them die a natural, peaceful death.

Many believe nature (God) is the only one who should decide who lives or dies.  They don't want to be kept alive artificially and at great expense to the family's or their own financial resources.  This is probably more true for the elderly who see no more reason to just stay alive without many happy times in their future.

Everyone should have an executed Advance Medical Directive, aka an Advance Directive or Living Will.  Copies need to be provided to anyone who may have the legal power to make medical decisions for you if there comes a time when you are unable.  The Directive should state whether or not you wish to be kept alive by extraordinary means or not.  The kinds of means that are "extraordinary" has different meanings depending on the state, so that may also need spelling out.

In the Schiavo case, the only dispute was over removal of her feeding tube and whether the husband, not the parents, has the primary right to make that decision.

One can view a feeding tube as extraordinary since it requires a medical procedure to insert it into the stomach.  Nutrients are pumped into the stomach which provide life-sustaining calories & fluids.  On the other hand, the tube is doing what the patient is unable to do for themselves: feeding them.  Eating is a natural, critical need for all living things. Ingesting and digesting food is not an extreme procedure -- patients who can't feed themselves often have someone else give them their meals.

That case created a legal battle that, to me, was forced to disregard what the patient, Terri, might want, and instead kept her alive for loving parents who didn't want to lose their child.  The fact that the husband wanted to end her vegetative state immediately called into examination his motives.  Was this something Terri and he discussed previously?  Or was the primary motivation for him to get on with his own life?  He stood to inherit quite a bit once she was dead, but to inherit, he had to be married to her when she died.  keeping her alive with no hope of recovery would have made him a prisoner of the situation unless he opted for divorce and forfeiture of any inheritance.

Once a feeding tube is inserted into a patient, it can't be lawfully removed even if afterward an Advance Medical Directive is found stating the patient did not want it in the first place.  Putting the tube in makes the patient dependent on it to live.  Removing it would be performing another medical procedure that is intended to kill the patient and in a very painful and drawn out way through starvation and dehydration.

Not going into detail regarding my own similar situation.  Suffice it to say, fill out and sign an Advance Directive now.  You might not be able to when the time comes that you need it.

SUMMARY
This directly relates to the topic, since the existence of an Advance Medical Directive gives the next of kin the patient's wishes, and even with a small chance of recovery, they may still wish to not be placed on machines to be kept alive. Organ harvesting is no longer a decision the doctor and relatives make.  Whether or not the brain is 100% dead, placing you on a ventilator would be off the table.  If you live, you live.  if there's enough brain activity to keep your body alive, then the chance for recovery may be worth the wait.

Despite the extended emotion-laden legal struggle, the case broke no new
legal ground: it remains settled law that the spouse is the next of kin in
decisions where the patient is incompetent. However, it is now more generally
recognized that the next of kin's decisions should be carried out in a timely
fashion, even on matters of life and death. The case has raised public
awareness of the value of having an advance medical directive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

Schiavo is a whole different issue than some kid from the west side who was chopped up and sold off in a week because the doctors said he was "brain dead", whatever that means.

Schiavo is a whole different issue than some kid from the west side who was chopped up and sold off in a week because the doctors said he was "brain dead", whatever that means.

i wasn't comparing any instance of brain dead pronouncement to another.

i was simply putting out there that cases like Schiavo's would have been less frequent if everyone made their wishes known before being placed on life support.  That way, you're doing what the patient wants, not what the hospital thinks is best.  What some doctor or relative wants becomes immaterial.

All that really needs to be done is obtain a second opinion from an outside doctor to make sure the prognosis is accurate -- based on the best tests available.

And why does it matter if the 17 year old "kid" was from the West Side?  Seems like that doesn't factor into any part of the situation.  The only the only part of the story that applies to West Oahu is the comment/title: "‘Enough is enough’: West Oahu residents call for end to gun violence following teen’s death."  it has nothing to do with organ harvesting.  In fact, the only reference to organs was the single comment that his organs were harvested prior to being taken off life support.  That's a standard practice to keep the organs viable for transporting and implanting.

You started out by saying you're not saying that (organ harvesting fraud) is what happened to this kid.  I'm just trying to figure out why that article was the motivation for this topic.  Seems tangential, but not related.

There is plenty of evidence that suggests hospitals are murdering people in order to sell their organs.

We are told to trust medical workers, but a lot of them are straight up psychopaths.

There is plenty of evidence that suggests hospitals are murdering people in order to sell their organs.

We are told to trust medical workers, but a lot of them are straight up psychopaths.

That's evidence of hospital staff acting stupidly.

But it's not what you claimed:  There is plenty of evidence that suggests hospitals are murdering people in order to sell their organs.


Refresh my memory.  Is "suggests" a synonym for "proves?"  I hope you have more evidence that actually proves your claims, not evidence that merely suggests  people are being murdered for their organs.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt