This seems like a long post, but I added lots of spacing!   

This is a question that I COULD have asked the RO at the time, but decided it was the wrong time to question him.  Read on, and you'll see why I say this....

My daughter and I were shooting rifles at the bulls eye range.  My daughter decides to try shooting while standing, and after a couple rounds she's ready to stop .... the rifle (AK-47) is just a bit more weight than she can easily hold, aim, and fire.

She hands me the rifle and walks around the bench to the spotting scope while I finish the 3 rounds left in the mag.  I cleared the rifle and set it on the bench.  Then I walk around and check my hits in the scope. 

That's when the RO walks over.  His first sentence was, "You know you're responsible for her, huh?" 

I said, "I guess so.  Why?  Did she do something wrong?" 

The  RO said, "I was watching and she pointed that rifle right at you with a live round in it.  I can ban both of you for that since you're responsible for anything she does."

I told him I was watching her and never saw her point the rifle my direction at any time.  If I had, she would have heard from me on the spot.

The RO said I get one, and only one, warning, and then he will tell us both to leave.  I apologized for her mistake at least twice.  I also told him if I see her doing anything else like that, I'll be sure to correct her.

He didn't seem to want to drop it.  He hesitated a couple of steps, then went back to his position on the line.  I'm not sure what he wanted me to say or do, but he obviously wasn't happy.  Maybe he expected me to get angry and yell at her, but I never saw her point the rifle at me or anywhere else other than in a safe direction.

Now, I don't intend to argue that he may have been mistaken, that my daughter KNOWS the rules, that she has practiced with me many times, that the RO approached me and not her, and that the ROs in general will YELL AT YOU AS YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG without delay (seen this a couple of times).  They have microphones and have no problem using it if they see a problem.  He thought he saw what he saw, and I have no reason to doubt him.

What I'm interested in is his comment that I'm responsible for anything my daughter does at the range.  As far as I know, even if the rifle is registered to me, she is an adult.  She is responsible for her own actions. 

Nothing about her would prevent her from passing a firearm background check.  Therefore, allowing her to borrow my rifle to shoot at the range, with or without me being present, is perfectly legal.

So, unless (1) there is a "blame the guy who owns the guns" rule at KHSC, or (2) he mistook my daughter to be a minor, I am having a tough time figuring out why he would say I'm responsible for her??

By the way, my daughter is 27.   

Any insight?  Mahalo!!   

It's your fault

It's your fault

Thanks for that insightful and well articulated response, KK!  I can always count on you!   

Thanks for that insightful and well articulated response, KK!  I can always count on you!   

I don't know what those big words mean but you're welcome. 

Mike is the rangemaster there.

Mike is the rangemaster there.

That's good to know, but doesn't answer my question ...

got yelled at a couple times but I think because of the hearing protection they have to yell in the mic. I don't take it personal when they tell me to move forward when shooting standing. it's their job and people do make mistakes. better safe than sorry!!! when I see them the next  visit they are friendly... it's probably because they are under pressure not to even have 1 accident as that could shut down the range....

got yelled at a couple times but I think because of the hearing protection they have to yell in the mic. I don't take it personal when they tell me to move forward when shooting standing. it's their job and people do make mistakes. better safe than sorry!!! when I see them the next  visit they are friendly... it's probably because they are under pressure not to even have 1 accident as that could shut down the range....

That's what I told my daughter.  Tough job, lots of young shooters probably don't take the ROs seriously, etc, etc.  I understand if they have to be strict and act like drill sergeants sometimes, BUT .... the question remains ....

Why would he tell me I'm responsible for anything my daughter does at the range??

the owner of the rifle is ultimately responsible for the rifle and any shooters using the rifle. same for handgun or silhouette side...

That's what I told my daughter.  Tough job, lots of young shooters probably don't take the ROs seriously, etc, etc.  I understand if they have to be strict and act like drill sergeants sometimes, BUT .... the question remains ....

Why would he tell me I'm responsible for anything my daughter does at the range??

Instead of 100 fuss guessing, I'd recommend you ask him next time you see him.

He won't remember you by that time and you can ask him in the third person.

I remember once when a good friend and I were shooting one of my AK's.......

My friend shot a few rounds then looked back and smiled while still pointing

the rifle down range....

Then the range officer yelled out "POINT THAT RIFLE DOWN RANGE!!!!!!"

We both looked at him then went to look who he was yelling at.......

He had yelled at my friend...... My friend told him he was pointing it down range....

Then my  friend toldem "I wasn't gonna point the rifle at anybody..."

RO says "YOU WERE ABOUT TO!!!!!"

That was pretty cool... that's Minority Report action!! Very qualified!

Sorry about my story, doesn't really answer your question.....I feel your pain though

I was hoping somebody knew somebody who was banned because their family member or friend broke a range rule.  Or they knew of a range rule that makes you responsible for anything your shooting partner does.

If you don't like my question, please feel free to ignore it .... although it's kinda late for that, huh?   

It's not about liking it, I'm trying to help you to get the correct answer.

It's not about liking it, I'm trying to help you to get the correct answer.

KK, thanks for the assistance.  Really, I know you are trying to point me in the right direction. 

I have a feeling I already know the correct answer.  The RO was acting on a false assumption, because he thought my daughter was under age for shooting unsupervised.  I could ask him about that later, but I'm wondering about this now... tonight.

What I was trying to find out from the 2A community is whether they know of a rule that would make me responsible for my adult daughter's mistakes, to the point where I can be banned.

If you don't know the answer, then I'll have to find out from the ROs (other ROs ) and get back to you.  Hopefully this information helps others who might find themselves in similar circumstances.  Knowledge is a good thing.          

I remember once when a good friend and I were shooting one of my AK's.......

My friend shot a few rounds then looked back and smiled while still pointing

the rifle down range....

Then the range officer yelled out "POINT THAT RIFLE DOWN RANGE!!!!!!"

We both looked at him then went to look who he was yelling at.......

He had yelled at my friend...... My friend told him he was pointing it down range....

Then my  friend toldem "I wasn't gonna point the rifle at anybody..."

RO says "YOU WERE ABOUT TO!!!!!"

That was pretty cool... that's Minority Report action!! Very qualified!

Sorry about my story, doesn't really answer your question.....I feel your pain though

Thanks, BC.  Not a bad story, and very relevant!  It shows the ROs are not perfect beings, and they sometimes overreact.  The "He was about to.." line sounds like a cover-up for a mistake to me.

I'd personally prefer they err on the side of caution to keep us safe than not. This might be what happened to us. Maybe he THOUGHT he knew what he saw, but decided to approach me instead of her because of his doubt. 

Hell, for all I know, he could have heard someone SAY she pointed the rifle at me and never saw it himself.  It's just odd that the "you're responsible for anything she does" admonishment was emphasized.

 

That's good to know, but doesn't answer my question ...

Ren answered the question in your thread title. 

It was all based on perspective. He may have saw it from a different angle and it may have looked a certain way. He is the RSO and in a way they have authority. He may have gone about it in a wrong manner, but sometimes you just have to agree with them and apologize. Keep shooting and have fun or argue it and possibly get kicked off the range.

IDK, man, I don't have children, but I do invite my brother and/or friends every now and then. I sometimes get a scolding or told about their actions. I just apologize, correct my guest, keep on shooting and enjoy my day. Simple enough.

Ren answered the question in your thread title. 

It was all based on perspective. He may have saw it from a different angle and it may have looked a certain way. He is the RSO and in a way they have authority. He may have gone about it in a wrong manner, but sometimes you just have to agree with them and apologize. Keep shooting and have fun or argue it and possibly get kicked off the range.

IDK, man, I don't have children, but I do invite my brother and/or friends every now and then. I sometimes get a scolding or told about their actions. I just apologize, correct my guest, keep on shooting and enjoy my day. Simple enough.

.

Because your weapon is registered in your name, you are fully responsible for anything that happens with that rifle. It's just like when you lend someone your vehicle and they get pulled over or in an accident; because its your vehicle, you will be held responsible. Unless you legally lend the rifle to your daughter in accordance with HRS, you are still responsible, even if she is an adult.

Isn't gun registration fun, kids? 

The problem here is, the RO assumed I owned both rifles.  He didn't ask, so there's no way for him to know who the rifle owner is.

Assumption is the mother of all F***-ups!

With the exception of one person in particular,I believe all of the RO's are cool and some even friendly. One RO has a chip on his shoulder and that sometimes leads to uncalled for and IMO, unacceptable behavior  under certain circumstances.   I'm all for yelling at people fussing with their stuff at the table during a ceasefire or mishandling a firearm since life and limb are at stake and yelling is arguably the most effective way to convey a sense of importance, alarm and urgency . But yelling at people for violating range rules like placing two bulleye targets in a vertical (as opposed to side by side) configuration or for shooting at the berm instead of the back stop is over the top. The ROs do a lot to keep us all safe. The fact that the range remains open to the public and the absence of any reported major incidents leads me to believe they have and continue to do their job. They are not always perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. If you want an alibi in case you are wrongfully threatened with being ejected from the range, use the video on your smart phone. It's free, can be erased and can be used over and over again and again. Just a thought.