Usage of firearms on vehicle theft.... (Read 8352 times)

Dblnaknak

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 05:18:35 PM »

I recall a news item a few months ago where two guys stole/took a backpack from him.  He chased them down, they fought, and he stabbed one of them, and that person died.  No arrest or charges.

Really. Go read the article again.

Dblnaknak

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2014, 05:24:40 PM »

I don't get why certain individuals are so focused on deadly force; the OP said nothing about deadly force; he was inquiring if you can respond to a robbery against personal property with a firearm, and deadly force was brought up as a side point. The HRS clearly states you can use force to protect your property, given that you you first ask them to stop, upon which if they proceed to respond in an aggressive manner, you may respond by escalating force.

What is 'force'? unarmed combat, OC/Pepper spray, attack dog, presentation of deadly force; these are all different types of force. Force is a generalized term that encompasses deadly force, but doesn't automatically mean deadly force when applied.

Cops aren't superheroes, so pretending that they are the only ones capable of interpreting the law and/or enforcing personal safety and protection is quite stupid. This whole 'leave crime fighting to people who are trained to do it' mindset is the same ideology that is preventing us from being able to protect ourselves properly in the first place. Self protection is an individual responsibility, and this statute clearly states that an individual can protect their property with force, given they are in the confines of the law.

Really? You might of been able to present your gun as a show of force as a MP in the military. But in the civilian world the rules are different. The presentation of deadly force is exactly that; deadly force. It becomes a slippery slope when the presenter of deadly force is not faced with actual deadly force.

Then again who am I. I was never a highly trained MP. (Sarcasm)

new guy

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2014, 05:55:08 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 12:36:42 PM by new guy »
Your mindset is your primary weapon. - Jeff Cooper

dustoff003

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2014, 06:15:48 PM »

Really? You might of been able to present your gun as a show of force as a MP in the military. But in the civilian world the rules are different. The presentation of deadly force is exactly that; deadly force. It becomes a slippery slope when the presenter of deadly force is not faced with actual deadly force.

Then again who am I. I was never a highly trained MP. (Sarcasm)

Why do folks have to shit on or discredit others training and experience?

The last time you and Q had your little pissing match it was Q who wrote back stating all his training and experience, would you care to please do the same with your training and experience?

Q

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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2014, 07:09:11 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 10:47:03 AM by Q »

mauidog

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2014, 07:25:04 PM »
Really? You might of been able to present your gun as a show of force as a MP in the military. But in the civilian world the rules are different. The presentation of deadly force is exactly that; deadly force. It becomes a slippery slope when the presenter of deadly force is not faced with actual deadly force.

Then again who am I. I was never a highly trained MP. (Sarcasm)


It appears from your comment you are under the misunderstanding that deadly force is only appropriate if faced with deadly force.

That is not the case.  The Hawaii statutes allow you to use deadly force if you feel you are facing a threat of rape, sodomy, and/or serious/substantial bodily injury.

Here's a very good synopsis of how judges instruct juries to view justification for use of deadly force:

http://lawofselfdefense.com/jury_instruction/hi-7-01a-self-defense-when-the-use-of-deadly-force-is-at-issue/
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Tom_G

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2014, 10:26:45 PM »
Back to the OP (sort of), I would...
1. Call HPD
2.Perch in the window with my M1 carbine and yell "Hey!  Run away!  Police are coming!"

If one of the miscreants decided to charge at me, I would shoot them.  Otherwise, I would just watch, maybe grab the DLSR and tyr to get some pics.

Under no circumstances would I exit my house and confront them.  If they take my truck and get away clean, well, I have insurance.  It would burn me, but I would let it happen.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

rswarrior1700

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2014, 12:44:22 AM »
Back to the OP (sort of), I would...
1. Call HPD
2.Perch in the window with my M1 carbine and yell "Hey!  Run away!  Police are coming!"

If one of the miscreants decided to charge at me, I would shoot them.  Otherwise, I would just watch, maybe grab the DLSR and tyr to get some pics.

Under no circumstances would I exit my house and confront them.  If they take my truck and get away clean, well, I have insurance.  It would burn me, but I would let it happen.
More in what I had in  mind rather to straight up confronting the suspects. Then again the thing that always bug me is thieves, especially house burglars would strike on a non occupied home. Thata being said they'll flee and might return later for the firearms, when  non ones home.

Q

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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2014, 03:11:46 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 10:49:51 AM by Q »

punaperson

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2014, 05:52:45 AM »
We had an incident on a friend's block where he literally sat outside his house, casually took pictures of the guys loading up the truck during a robbery, and also provided a detailed description w/ license plate number.

Officer that responded was pissed off that he had to do paperwork on scene, and when my friend tried to provide his info for a follow up, responding officer basically told him to fuck off and let him do his job, all while refusing to take the evidence from the guy who called the cops in the first place. Oh, and it took them 5 months to finally finish the case, as my friend had to go out of his way to give what he had to a cop that actually cared about doing his job.

Not saying that they are all bad, but holy fck.

That's why when it comes down to it, I'll do what I can to act within the confines of the law to protect what's mine and my neighbor's; no one trusts HPD to do shit anymore.
You mean to say that that television show about the diligent, hardworking, competent, caring, effective, persistent, crime-solving Hawaii police is fiction?  :geekdanc:

mauidog

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2014, 07:22:10 AM »
You mean to say that that television show about the diligent, hardworking, competent, caring, effective, persistent, crime-solving Hawaii police is fiction?  :geekdanc:

That show is about high level crimes like murder, bank robberies, and prostitution rings.  Ever see that  episode where the big guys go after the meth head for breaking into rental cars and Kailua houses? 

Don't hold your breath.    :grrr:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

macsak

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2014, 07:27:05 AM »
You mean to say that that television show about the diligent, hardworking, competent, caring, effective, persistent, crime-solving Hawaii police is fiction?  :geekdanc:

you mean 5-0 isn't a documentary?

punaperson

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2014, 07:44:24 AM »
That show is about high level crimes like murder, bank robberies, and prostitution rings.  Ever see that  episode where the big guys go after the meth head for breaking into rental cars and Kailua houses? 

Don't hold your breath.    :grrr:
I haven't noticed any of those events being mentioned in the taxpayer-funded Hawaii tourism ads.

I haven't watched the show. Do they have the scene (taken from real life) where the homeowner is at the police station reporting a burglary (because the cops refused to drive their personal taxpayer-subsidized "police cars" down the crappy subdivision pot-holed roads) naively asked if there was any chance that any of his property might be recovered and the cops in the office actually laughed out loud?  :wtf:

mmmorgalis64

Re: Usage of firearms on vehicle theft....
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2014, 07:37:21 PM »
Well I'm glad i'm moving back to the Southeast in 2-1/2 months:

"takes the Castle Doctrine to the extreme, not only allowing you to defend your home (porches especially), but also your car, your place of employment, or practically anywhere you have a legal right to be. Also, unlike some states, you do not have to retreat before you take action to defend yourself. Last, but not least, the law added civil immunity (you can’t be sued) if you are forced to defend yourself in accordance with this law.”

And I can get CCW.