firearm private sale, notify HPD (Read 4861 times)

stangzilla

firearm private sale, notify HPD
« on: January 04, 2021, 09:33:16 AM »
I usually go down to HPD to do the transfer on a private sale, but in this pandemic and the wait list I might not have the time to do this. I don't want to overcrowd HPD if I don't have to be there
what do you guys do when doing a private sale to notify HPD of the sale?
do you fax a bill of sale or an info paper with firearm info and buyers info to HPD firearms?
or what do you guys do?  and what is our legal responsibility when selling a firearm?
thanks

aaronc5362

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 10:16:20 AM »
Dunno if this will help but ive sold rifles to average joes. All i do is mail hpd via usps my name, rifle, barrel length,  make, model, serial number etc.

I assume if its through usps there has to be a time stamp somehow. Well i mean i date it in my letter to them but usps does the stamp over the stamp iput on. Kinda like notary.

You gotta drop it off in the post box by 5 days or something like that. Ive been told this by hpd, but of course this was pre covid. I usually mail it in the day i sell it. That way itll be less than 5 days and the buyer shouldve registered it by then. Then im at no fault if he was to go on a shooting spree

I think i did the same thing for pistols. Ive only sold 2 pistols privately to non friends.

Edit: i also write my permit number for that particular gun. Easier for them to find it. I guess
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 10:22:44 AM by aaronc5362 »

randay

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 10:32:04 AM »
hrs 134-2(f)

must notify by 48 hours. Hawaii pd has a nice premade form: https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Long-gun-sale-transfer-form.pdf

I hand delivered to the person doing covid screenings.

dont think it applies to handguns since they will have to go and get the permit first anyway.


stangzilla

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 11:58:02 AM »
hrs 134-2(f)

must notify by 48 hours. Hawaii pd has a nice premade form: https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Long-gun-sale-transfer-form.pdf

I hand delivered to the person doing covid screenings.

dont think it applies to handguns since they will have to go and get the permit first anyway.

the form says Hawaii county.  is this good for Honolulu too?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 12:39:44 PM »
the form says Hawaii county.  is this good for Honolulu too?

The Form is not very long.  If it were me, I'd just use it as a template and create a new document for Honolulu County.  That way I can also type the information into the blanks rather than use my less-than-pretty handwriting.   :geekdanc:

Or, I'm sure they'll accept one with the appropriate hand-written changes where needed.

It would be nice if they cared enough to provide a form for each county.  That, however, would make things easier for gun buyers/owners.  *GASP!*

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

stangzilla

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 01:39:18 PM »
I called HPD firearms and they said no need for handgun bc they already been checked by HPD.  (I know, I should have just called HPD, but I wanted to see if others have any other info bc sometimes HPD not the best source of info)

only need to notify for long gun sale
must notify HPD within 48 hours of transaction.  letter of notification must include:
firearm info (make, model, serial number, caliber, barrel length, type of firearm)
name of buyer with middle initial
name of seller with middle initial
address of both buyer and seller
phone number of both buyer and seller
date of transaction
buyer's permit to acquire permit # and expiration date

Flapp_Jackson

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2021, 01:47:09 PM »
I called HPD firearms and they said no need for handgun bc they already been checked by HPD.  (I know, I should have just called HPD, but I wanted to see if others have any other info bc sometimes HPD not the best source of info)

only need to notify for long gun sale
must notify HPD within 48 hours of transaction.  letter of notification must include:
firearm info (make, model, serial number, caliber, barrel length, type of firearm)
name of buyer with middle initial
name of seller with middle initial
address of both buyer and seller
phone number of both buyer and seller
date of transaction
buyer's permit to acquire permit # and expiration date

Of course, that only applies to in-state transfers of handguns.  If you transfer to an out-of-state buyer, you must notify HPD within 5 days of it leaving the state or pay a $250 fine for each applicable firearm.

Private sales are not limited to in-state sales.   :shaka:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

stangzilla

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2021, 01:53:28 PM »
Of course, that only applies to in-state transfers of handguns.  If you transfer to an out-of-state buyer, you must notify HPD within 5 days of it leaving the state or pay a $250 fine for each applicable firearm.

Private sales are not limited to in-state sales.   :shaka:

thanks.  I did not know that about out of state.  good info   :shaka:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2021, 02:11:19 PM »
thanks.  I did not know that about out of state.  good info   :shaka:

Yeah, a bill passed this past Fall that modified HRS134 to require owners notify them of registered firearms that permanently leave the state.  They will assess a fine if you fail to notify them, although if you are moving, I'm curious how they can chase you for that money once you're not in the jurisdiction.  Credit report strike?  Garnish your last HI State Income Tax Refund?

I'm also curious how they will find out unless they institute some kind of annual registration renewal.  Maybe they think they can find out through RapBack, even though it's not working according to reports. 

The whole thing seems like a money grab, since it's obviously a solution for no real problem.  My guess is they want to know if you move so they can take you off the non-existent RapBack subscription list.   :wacko:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

stangzilla

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2021, 10:56:52 AM »
here's a sample I made of a sale report to send to HPD:


Long Gun notice of sale:  Attention HPD Firearms division
Date of sale:  _________________________
Buyers info:
Name:  _____________________________________
Address:  ____________________________________________________________
Phone number:  ____________________________________
Long gun permit number:  ____________________________

Sellers info:
Name:  _________________________________________
Address:  _____________________________________________________________
Phone number:  _____________________________________

Long gun info:
Caliber:  ________________
Make:  _________________________________________
Model:  _____________________________________________
Type:  __________________________________________________
Barrel length:  _____________________________________
Serial number:  ______________________________________
Permit number of firearm:  ______________________________

Eric808

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2021, 11:32:39 AM »
Created a form fillable pdf of stanz info.  This way you can save it with your info, fill in the info for our purchase, save and print two copies, for seller and buyer.

stangzilla

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2021, 11:57:05 AM »
Created a form fillable pdf of stanz info.  This way you can save it with your info, fill in the info for our purchase, save and print two copies, for seller and buyer.

thanks.  wow, you improved it too.   :shaka:

urusaibob

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2021, 11:00:14 AM »
good information here thanks

I had one question since its been a long time since I've had to register or bought a firearm.

Am selling 1 hand gun and 1 rifle to a close friend. I've gotten mixed answers from other folks that I the seller needed to be with the buyer at HPD for the transfer. Is that correct or so long he has the long gun permit and I follow it up with a Bill of sale/transfer form to HPD am okay and he can go down by himself? the Hand gun I just have to provide the gun information to him when he goes down to apply for the hand gun permit correct? he waits the waiting period and then when he has the hand gun permit I can complete the transfer. According to the information provided earlier I do not need to inform HPD about my hand gun transfer. Is that correct?

Also -if the rifle was originally registered as a Lower only do I need to update my permit before I sell it or he can registered it as a lower or full rifle?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2021, 11:32:21 AM »
good information here thanks

I had one question since its been a long time since I've had to register or bought a firearm.

Am selling 1 hand gun and 1 rifle to a close friend. I've gotten mixed answers from other folks that I the seller needed to be with the buyer at HPD for the transfer. Is that correct or so long he has the long gun permit and I follow it up with a Bill of sale/transfer form to HPD am okay and he can go down by himself?

the Hand gun I just have to provide the gun information to him when he goes down to apply for the hand gun permit correct? he waits the waiting period and then when he has the hand gun permit I can complete the transfer. According to the information provided earlier I do not need to inform HPD about my hand gun transfer. Is that correct?

Also -if the rifle was originally registered as a Lower only do I need to update my permit before I sell it or he can registered it as a lower or full rifle?

No need to update your receiver only registration form.  If it's a complete build now, HPD will make the necessary description entries on the new registration.

Handguns:  The reason you're getting conflicting answers about accompanying the buyer to HPD is because pre-COVID, you could save both of you a trip by meeting up on the day the permit was ready for pickup.  Buyer picks up the permit, seller signs the permit, buyer pays seller (if hasn't already), seller gives buyer the gun, buyer registers it -- all in one trip.  Since the buyer can't possess the gun until the seller officially transfers it (signs the permit), the buyer can't show up with the gun without the signed permit.  Just made sense to meet up on permit pickup day to get everything done in one trip.

Now, you could still meet them on the day the permit is ready (after the 2 week wait) -- to sign the permit and hand them the gun -- but unless the buyer is lucky and got a registration appointment for that same day, he still needs to go back to register. 

Realistically, you can meet the buyer anytime at anyplace (where it's lawful to have a firearm) before the permit expires and do the transfer.  Once you sign the permit, you can (must) hand the handgun over to the buyer.

There's been a change in HPD procedure.  I transferred a handgun to a local buyer, but when he gave me the permit to sign, there was only one copy.  I asked where the other copy was, and he said HPD only gives one copy for private sales now.  I verified that at HPD the next week when I applied for a Long Gun permit renewal.  Apparently, HPD thinks it's more important to keep the forms than trust the seller to turn their copy in.  "We can't trust sellers to return their copy, and we don't like having permits circulating in public."  :crazy:  The law says the seller must deliver their copy to HPD within 48 hours after transfer.  So, HPD has set a policy that prevents us from following the law.

I simply changed the long gun notice form I used and gave the pistol transfer notice to HPD when I picked up my permit 2 weeks later.  Screw the 48 hour BS.  If they can't follow the law, they can't hold me to it either.  From what I read, the law doesn't require a notification letter from the seller for handguns -- only the return of the signed permit.  No permit copy = no notification.  Let them figure it out.  They know registrations are taking forever now, yet they decided to withhold permit copies from private sellers?  Oh, well! 

Long Guns:  Much easier...

Seller writes up a bill of sale. 
Seller checks that the buyer's long gun permit is valid. 
Seller takes the cash. 
Seller hands over the rifle/shotgun. 
Buyer eventually registers it.
Seller sends a notification letter to HPD within 48 hours of the transfer.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 12:35:31 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

aletheuo137

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2021, 11:35:38 AM »
The Problem with So-Called "Universal Background Checks



Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

urusaibob

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2021, 01:26:02 PM »
Any current information regarding the process of private sale transfer? Tried calling HPD no answer

Does the seller have to be present for the transfer at hpd?

I heard from someone that the day they picked up their permits for long gun and hand gun HPD allowed them to pick up the firearms at the LGS and return the same day to register them without a appointment.

Would that apply for private sale? Buyer pick up their permits then we do the sale privately not at hpd and he can go back to register them?

Thanks

stangzilla

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2021, 01:31:32 PM »
Any current information regarding the process of private sale transfer? Tried calling HPD no answer

Does the seller have to be present for the transfer at hpd?

I heard from someone that the day they picked up their permits for long gun and hand gun HPD allowed them to pick up the firearms at the LGS and return the same day to register them without a appointment.

Would that apply for private sale? Buyer pick up their permits then we do the sale privately not at hpd and he can go back to register them?

Thanks

handgun or rifle?
either way seller does not need to be present to transfer
handgun buyer needs to do the PTA first then get the permit, then get the gun, then go back HPD and register.  HPD already has the info from the PTA for specific handgun
rifle buyers needs the PTA first, good for 1 year buy as many rifles as you want.  seller checks the PTA make sure its current, do the sale.  send by mail the transfer with all the appropriate info to HPD about the buyer and info about the firearm.  then buyer goes to register at HPD themself

urusaibob

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2021, 01:37:53 PM »
handgun or rifle?
either way seller does not need to be present to transfer
handgun buyer needs to do the PTA first then get the permit, then get the gun, then go back HPD and register.  HPD already has the info from the PTA for specific handgun
rifle buyers needs the PTA first, good for 1 year buy as many rifles as you want.  seller checks the PTA make sure its current, do the sale.  send by mail the transfer with all the appropriate info to HPD about the buyer and info about the firearm.  then buyer goes to register at HPD themself

Actually for both but more concerned about the hand gun transfer.


Thanks

Flapp_Jackson

Re: firearm private sale, notify HPD
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2021, 03:20:53 PM »
Actually for both but more concerned about the hand gun transfer.
Thanks

From my experience, when buying a handgun, HPD will give you a permit having 2 copies if you are buying from a dealer.  The dealer will sign the back of both and return their copy to HPD after they process the sale letting the Cops know you picked up the gun/s.  You will return the other copy to HPD when you register.

When you buy from a private seller, HPD only gives you the original PTA -- no copies.  The seller signs the back of the permit, and the buyer turns it in when they register.

Once the seller signs the permit, the transfer is official.  Doesn't require it be done at HPD, and it doesn't happen when you register.  Transfer and registration are 2 completely separate processes.  The seller can legally give the handgun to the buyer once he signs the permit.

I'd recommend there be a bill of sale to document the details of the sale which both parties get, and a copy of the buyer's & seller's IDs provided to each.  As long as the seller is satisfied both parties are Hawaii residents, the buyer is of legal age to own guns and is the person named on the permit to acquire, he's done his due diligence.  Some like to argue there's no legal requirement in the statutes to do a bill of sake, ask for ID, etc., but my reply is always, " I'm not going to break the law and then claim ignorance.  If someone is getting a firearm from me, it's my responsibility to make sure they meet the bare minimum requirements for a legal transfer."

The only other issue is complying with the "places to keep" section of the law.  I've been having buyers meet at my house to avoid meeting in parking lots or having to drive to HPD or the range.  Gun stores are not a good option for conducting private sales for a variety of reasons.  If you aren't there to transact business with the store, you shouldn't be buying and selling guns on their premises. 

Quote
[ 134-25]  Place to keep pistol or revolver; penalty.  (a)  Except as provided in sections
134-5 and 134-9, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor’s place of business,
residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry unloaded firearms in an
enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser’s place of business,
residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business,
residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:

     (1)  A place of repair;

     (2)  A target range;

     (3)  A licensed dealer’s place of business;

     (4)  An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;

     (5)  A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or

     (6)  A police station.

“Enclosed container” means a rigidly constructed receptacle, or a commercially
manufactured gun case, or the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the firearm.

(b)  Any person violating this section by carrying or possessing a loaded or unloaded
pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a class B felony.

In the past, meeting at HPD on the date the handgun permit was ready for pickup was the best option for private sales. 

The buyer and seller meet at HPD,
buyer picks up the permit,
buyer inspects the gun,
buyer hands payment to the seller,
seller signs the permit and completes the bill of sale,
buyer takes possession of gun,
buyer registers gun.

Once the seller signs the permit and hands over the gun, he can leave.

As you can see, that process was easier if the meeting took place at HPD when the permit is ready.  Now with all the appointment BS, it's hit or miss as to when the buyer and seller can meet at HPD without having to leave and go back again.

If buying from a dealer, you'll have to pick up the permit at HPD, go get the firearm from the dealer, then register the gun at HPD.  No real way to streamline that process.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall