Just buy an EV (Read 15480 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2022, 09:36:27 AM »
I think I'll start searching the web about EV, long daily commutes on the mainland and cross country treks.

I have a feeling it is a nightmare.

Hawaii not so bad.  We only go around in circles anyway.

Pros and cons for everything. Benefit of long commutes is that it saves on gas. Bad part is to recharge, you will have to wait anywhere from 10 mins to 30 mins (Supercharger with no line) and add in wait times if there is a line.  The Tesla GPS will chart a map that tells u where to stop and for how long.  This is cool so you don't have to worry about finding them yourself.  So because of this, it often isn't the most direct/fastest route.  Sometimes you will have to just charge to top off for 10 mins, other times you will be close to 10% remaining battery and have to spend 30 mins to charge.  In most cases, your trip will take about 30% longer at minimum.

Compare this to spending 5 mins to fill up gas.

Another pro would be the self driving. Now it's $200 a month instead of buying it off the bat for $10K.  So you can engage the self driving and relax on long trips.

HI and other urban cities are perfect for EV's in general provided you have somewhere to charge without having to wait in a line.  IMO this is the biggest kicker.

changemyoil66

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2022, 09:36:42 AM »

hvybarrels

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2022, 01:27:11 PM »
“Wars happen when the government tells you who the enemy is. Revolutions happen when you figure it out for yourselves.”

drck1000

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2022, 01:29:31 PM »

QUIETShooter

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2022, 06:06:00 PM »
Is it true that a battery replacement costs as much as a new car?
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2022, 06:24:51 PM »
Is it true that a battery replacement costs as much as a new car?
Depends. Teslas used to be 1 big batt that cost $40k to replace. Now theyre 5-7 smaller batt cells and cost about $3500 each and if anything an older car will need to replace 1 or 2 cells.

Only reason to replace after 7-8 years is they dont hold the charge as long. Like a new phone batt vs 1 that is 3 years old.

Idk abt other car brands.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2022, 08:38:35 PM »
If there's a 100K mile warranty on the battery, chances are, the value of the car will be very close to the cost of battery replacement.

My daughter's 2011 Prius has a blue book value of about $8K.  Cost to replace the batteries is about $1-$2K.  It would make more sense to sell it or trade in on a new car with new batteries, new technology, and warranties.

I'm sure the resell value of a $60K Tesla will be more, but if the batteries are $3500/pack, it's probably about the same ratio of cost/resell value.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

eyeeatingfish

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2022, 09:39:31 PM »



There are more parts on a gas car than an electrical car and more parts prone to wearing out on a gas car too. With electrical cars you pretty much have batteries, wires and electric motors for propulsion while a gas car you have so many more moving parts in the propulsions system that can all go wrong and be harder to replace.

changemyoil66

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2022, 11:51:14 AM »

There are more parts on a gas car than an electrical car and more parts prone to wearing out on a gas car too. With electrical cars you pretty much have batteries, wires and electric motors for propulsion while a gas car you have so many more moving parts in the propulsions system that can all go wrong and be harder to replace.

Most mechanics cannot work on an EV.  So it's harder to find competition to do it cheaper because you end up having to go to the maker.  So it's harder due to not as many available to fix your car.

Even with all the tech in modern cars, your older mechanics cannot run the diagnostic unless they purchased the very expensive sensor reader.  Nor do they have the equipment to re-calibrate the sensors.  So often they have to send it out to someone who does or the maker.  So it is slightly harder to replace parts, even something as simple as a bumper or side mirror.  I know some insurance claims adjusters who told me this.

hvybarrels

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2022, 12:04:42 PM »

There are more parts on a gas car than an electrical car and more parts prone to wearing out on a gas car too. With electrical cars you pretty much have batteries, wires and electric motors for propulsion while a gas car you have so many more moving parts in the propulsions system that can all go wrong and be harder to replace.

You forgot the thousands of chips from Taiwan (that could become unobtanium any day now) along with the proprietary software that relies on constant updates so the thing doesn’t go up in flames.

And sometimes it does anyway

“Wars happen when the government tells you who the enemy is. Revolutions happen when you figure it out for yourselves.”

drck1000

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2022, 01:10:00 PM »
Most mechanics cannot work on an EV.  So it's harder to find competition to do it cheaper because you end up having to go to the maker.  So it's harder due to not as many available to fix your car.

Even with all the tech in modern cars, your older mechanics cannot run the diagnostic unless they purchased the very expensive sensor reader.  Nor do they have the equipment to re-calibrate the sensors.  So often they have to send it out to someone who does or the maker.  So it is slightly harder to replace parts, even something as simple as a bumper or side mirror.  I know some insurance claims adjusters who told me this.
Yup.  Expertise to work on those cars, items, etc are specialized.  Plus due to technology, the cost of individual parts get super pricey.  I learned that as the vehicles along the way had more technology in them.  Not a simple/linear relationship. 

Rocky

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2022, 01:43:49 PM »

There are more parts on a gas car than an electrical car and more parts prone to wearing out on a gas car too. With electrical cars you pretty much have batteries, wires and electric motors for propulsion while a gas car you have so many more moving parts in the propulsions system that can all go wrong and be harder to replace.
Obviously, you have never trouble shot a motor vehicle or boats electronics.
In the 60's and 70's it was super easy.
Then electronics and computers came along.
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2022, 01:51:32 PM »
Obviously, you have never trouble shot a motor vehicle or boats electronics.
In the 60's and 70's it was super easy.
Then electronics and computers came along.

I helped a friend work on his 67 Camaro.  This was in 2000.  I was amazed at how little wiring there was. Pretty much like 5 wires in the entire engine bay.  And so much space, you could fit in the engine bay. You didn't have to remove 1 part to get to another either. Like my 87 Toyota Supra. To get to spark plugs 3 and 4, you had to remove the entire throttle body as it was placed over these 2 plugs.  Who designed it, someone who doesn't work on cars.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2022, 02:46:33 PM »
I've been watching the YT channel "South Main Auto".  He's got years of videos as he walks the viewer through the problem identification, analysis and solution process.

Very educational, very entertaining (the guy, Eric, is a hoot!), and very telling.  There are so many control, monitoring and relay modules, you almost have to invest thousands into diagnostic devices and online service data repositories to diagnose the problems.

Sometimes it's just a loose or broken wire, but until he goes through his diagnostic process, he's reluctant to start down those rabbit holes.  Isolating the one or two causes for the observed symptoms can take 30 minutes, but it can save hours of bad assumptions or locating problems that have nothing to do with the issue being solved.

As a computer engineer, it's great watching him work.  He's "normally" methodical, logical and realistic when tracking down what needs fixing.

And, yes, the majority of 2000 model year vehicles and beyond are systems on top of system.  Most problems can become suspect, if not identified, by the main scanners available.  They not only show error codes, but also live data so you can view the "behavior" of injectors, fuel pumps, lights, etc.

He gets a lot of work from people who tried going to dealers, other shops or parts retailers who only know how to read a code and replace a part.  No real diagnostic efforts to determine if the parts will fix it.

If you don't know anything about how electric motors work or how DC power is being inverted to AC current, then you shouldn't be making judgements on how more or less "complicated" an EV is to repair than a IC vehicle.  We have a century of knowledge and expertise, not to mention tried and true after market parts, to repair IC cars with.  EVs haven't really been out that long relatively speaking, and the design and tech for each model year is going to evolve until standards stabilize.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Rocky

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2022, 03:57:40 PM »
I helped a friend work on his 67 Camaro.  This was in 2000.  I was amazed at how little wiring there was. Pretty much like 5 wires in the entire engine bay.  And so much space, you could fit in the engine bay. You didn't have to remove 1 part to get to another either.
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

robtmc

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2022, 04:54:27 PM »

I took the top end of my 94 Mustang off to swap heads and intake.  Yeah, there was a wiring harness to deal with, but not a nightmare.

Compared to getting a new carb jetted right (they never are out of the box), injectors are not so bad.

ren

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2022, 05:22:24 PM »
even the simplest of components on a Tesla run on a CAN.
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2022, 06:59:27 PM »
even the simplest of components on a Tesla run on a CAN.

Ford
Toyota
Mitsubishi
Porsche
Tesla
Chevy
GMC
Jaguar
Audi
Volvo
Honda
Nissan
Mazda
Mercedes
Volkswagon
Mini Cooper
Kia
Hyundai

... plus a few makers that I've never heard of before.
https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32463239/new-ev-models-us/

If everyone is developing competing EV designs, what are the odds the components, interoperability and functions are the same?

Imagine Kimo's Garage trying to diagnose, get parts, and repair all those brands and models.

Chrysler did one great thing IMO.  They introduced standardized parts programs for all their vehicles.  The door and window switches, radios, headlight controls, dash knobs and buttons, seatbelt buckles, and so on fit every make and model of every Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge vehicle after the year this began.  That reduced waits when ordering parts, reduced warehousing space, inventory numbers, and eliminated errors and confusion when buying parts for shops and consumers.  It also increased the number of vehicles at the junk yard that might have the parts someone needs.

Hopefully the EV sector can develop a standards "board" and make sure every car you buy isn't like switching between a MAC and Windows machine each time.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2022, 07:58:28 PM »
Ford
Toyota
Mitsubishi
Porsche
Tesla
Chevy
GMC
Jaguar
Audi
Volvo
Honda
Nissan
Mazda
Mercedes
Volkswagon
Mini Cooper
Kia
Hyundai

... plus a few makers that I've never heard of before.
https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32463239/new-ev-models-us/

If everyone is developing competing EV designs, what are the odds the components, interoperability and functions are the same?

Imagine Kimo's Garage trying to diagnose, get parts, and repair all those brands and models.

Chrysler did one great thing IMO.  They introduced standardized parts programs for all their vehicles.  The door and window switches, radios, headlight controls, dash knobs and buttons, seatbelt buckles, and so on fit every make and model of every Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge vehicle after the year this began.  That reduced waits when ordering parts, reduced warehousing space, inventory numbers, and eliminated errors and confusion when buying parts for shops and consumers.  It also increased the number of vehicles at the junk yard that might have the parts someone needs.

Hopefully the EV sector can develop a standards "board" and make sure every car you buy isn't like switching between a MAC and Windows machine each time.
If the standard is based on the fitting of chargers into the car, then were screwed.

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Just buy an EV
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2022, 08:13:31 PM »
If the standard is based on the fitting of chargers into the car, then were screwed.

Any time the government tries to force consumers toward one product line versus another, we've been pretty much screwed.

Well, except for members of Congress who get to invest in those product lines before the news of the new mandates, subsidies, etc. is released.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 04:52:58 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall