WTF China?! (Read 882 times)

groveler

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2024, 03:04:31 PM »
Totally agree.

I respect traditional Americans that believe in the former American republic but despise the US empire.


Like how some on this forum characterizes and often expresses dislike of what is Hawaiian culture as it has been generally portrayed?


I agree with your take, but it depends on cultural context.

Living in China, most people I dealt with don't care about the protection of personal liberties in the Western context.  However, perhaps the acquisition of wealth makes that issue a moot point as those with money are better able to enjoy life, which I suppose can be equated to personal liberty.
Interesting observation.
I can't imagine how people give up personal liberty.
That has been my friction with Hawaii since I moved here 24 years ago.
Y'all like being slaves.
I don't.
 :grrr:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2024, 03:08:47 PM »
...
Like how some on this forum characterizes and often expresses dislike of what is Hawaiian culture as it has been generally portrayed?

I agree with your take, but it depends on cultural context.

Living in China, most people I dealt with don't care about the protection of personal liberties in the Western context.  However, perhaps the acquisition of wealth makes that issue a moot point as those with money are better able to enjoy life, which I suppose can be equated to personal liberty.

When you talk about culture, that's a mile away from talking about the people in general.

Not everyone espouses or adheres to a culture, but the culture exists.  Therefore, the culture is fair game for critique and criticism.  You're not lumping everyone in a demographic into that group -- just the ones who embrace that culture or some specific part of it.

There can be more than one culture within a race, population or other demographic.  Most people choose the cultures they embrace, such as guns and the Second Amendment, art, recreational drugs, religions, unlawful vices, etc. 

You can be a practitioner of the Hawaiian culture and also be involved in the US gun culture.

I'm sure there are many of Hawaiian descent who don't embrace Hawaiian culture, especially if they moved away from the islands and like the culture where they are living.  Hard to maintain a culture when you and the people in your house are the only ones in 2,500 miles practicing it.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

ren

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2024, 04:02:31 PM »
I was born and raised here. Does that make me an expert on Hawaiian culture?

« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 05:29:11 PM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

groveler

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2024, 06:58:10 PM »
I was born and raised here. Does that make me an expert on Hawaiian culture?


Yes
 :shaka:

Kuleana

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2024, 07:52:35 AM »
I was born and raised here. Does that make me an expert on Hawaiian culture?

Only aboriginal Hawaiians and those raised as Hawaiians can truly say that they are experts of Hawaiian culture by virtue of living that lifestyle on a daily basis.

Those who practice some elements of Hawaiian or any culture on a daily basis can realistically claim being familiar of the culture in-question to varying contextual degrees.

Those who do not practice on a daily basis any elements of Hawaiian or any culture for that matter are naturally outsiders whose personal views of that culture should generally be regarded as their own opinions.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2024, 08:27:57 AM »
Only aboriginal Hawaiians and those raised as Hawaiians can truly say that they are experts of Hawaiian culture by virtue of living that lifestyle on a daily basis.

Those who practice some elements of Hawaiian or any culture on a daily basis can realistically claim being familiar of the culture in-question to varying contextual degrees.

Those who do not practice on a daily basis any elements of Hawaiian or any culture for that matter are naturally outsiders whose personal views of that culture should generally be regarded as their own opinions.

So, you're saying anyone calling themselves Hawaiian, and who meet your standard of "living that lifestyle on a daily basis", are not Americans?

You can't have it both ways, if culture is your boundary for national identity.

I bet the people living in America in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Russian, etc. communities living the lifestyle of their ancestors would disagree.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

ren

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2024, 08:57:17 AM »
Only aboriginal Hawaiians and those raised as Hawaiians can truly say that they are experts of Hawaiian culture by virtue of living that lifestyle on a daily basis.

Those who practice some elements of Hawaiian or any culture on a daily basis can realistically claim being familiar of the culture in-question to varying contextual degrees.

Those who do not practice on a daily basis any elements of Hawaiian or any culture for that matter are naturally outsiders whose personal views of that culture should generally be regarded as their own opinions.



Have you lived in China for any substantial period of time, learned and used Chinese language in order to deal with common Chinese people in daily life?

I have.   :shaka:

The content creator of this video is a foreigner and although living and marrying a Chinese woman, he is still definitely anti-China.  He judges China using his own Western values and ignores 5,000 years of Chinese history and culture.

Chinese people generally do not care about personal freedoms as does Western people.  The only personal freedom Chinese people universally cherish is wealth acquisition.  The Chinese economy is not doing as well as it has in its recent past due to US imperial sanctions to its own country and countries that it does business.  Naturally, domestic problems will arise in China which is exactly what the sanctions imposed by the US empire was meant to do.

I have been and lived in China.

There have always been mass murders, mostly non-political in nature, that happen in China that do not get reported.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2024, 11:23:03 AM »

So, what's your point other than looking for an excuse to argue with me?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2024, 11:24:50 AM »
So, what's your point other than looking for an excuse to argue with me?

I think it looks like you are arguing among yourself.

 :geekdanc:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Kuleana

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2024, 11:27:52 AM »
So, you're saying anyone calling themselves Hawaiian, and who meet your standard of "living that lifestyle on a daily basis", are not Americans?

You can't have it both ways, if culture is your boundary for national identity.
I am talking about culture, not national identity.



I bet the people living in America in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Russian, etc. communities living the lifestyle of their ancestors would disagree.
Disagree with what?

I am uncertain what point you are trying to raise, as I was only talking about culture.

 :stopjack:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: WTF China?!
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2024, 02:03:13 PM »
I am talking about culture, not national identity.


Disagree with what?

I am uncertain what point you are trying to raise, as I was only talking about culture.

 :stopjack:

i'm not sure what your point was then. 

There are 3 factors that define a nation:  language, border and culture.

People can learn science, math, politics, foreign affairs, national security, etc, etc.  There's no requirement that they be raised in an environment immersed in those disciplines.  Yet, those who are more knowledgable about those or other disciplines we call "experts.'

i disagree that one can't learn about Hawaiian culture to the degree needed to be an expert.  There's nothing about Hawaiian culture that's so unique from other cultures that it's beyond the comprehension of "outsiders."

Anything you can learn others can learn, too.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall