Instructors chat (Read 29678 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2017, 01:59:28 PM »
So I got certified as an NRA instructor before getting stationed here,  so did not receive any instructions on Hawaii specific laws in the process. Since coming here,  I've read up and done my research,  and am going to start teaching soon to earn some money on the side. My only concern is I don't know how to make an affidavit,  or what they look like.  Would anyone mind perhaps sharing a template so I can get an idea?

Mines is at home, but make sure it says "Hawaii" on it.  We've had other members get denied because it lacked that.

zippz

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2017, 05:11:01 PM »
So I got certified as an NRA instructor before getting stationed here,  so did not receive any instructions on Hawaii specific laws in the process. Since coming here,  I've read up and done my research,  and am going to start teaching soon to earn some money on the side. My only concern is I don't know how to make an affidavit,  or what they look like.  Would anyone mind perhaps sharing a template so I can get an idea?

This is what I use, adjust as required.  If you're teaching a non-NRA course(like the 4+2 hour class) then it must have "this is not an NRA-approved course".  If you are teaching the official NRA curriculum then erase it.

Affidavit must be notarized.  If I just have a few, I get it done at my credit union which doesn't charge.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

eyeeatingfish

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2017, 07:52:34 PM »
Would a blind person want to use a firearm?

What could go wrong???

There was a case near Kahuku a while ago where a blind man shot an intruder. Don't know his he was completely blind or just legally blind.

drck1000

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 07:19:53 AM »
There are no vision tests to buy a gun, get a permit, or own it -- unlike driving.

There are many people who are legally blind without their corrective lenses. 

It's foreseeable (pun) that one of those people who by law must only operate a vehicle with corrective lenses may have to operate a firearm without them.  If during a struggle their glasses are knocked off and broken, or in the middle of the night they can't locate their glasses before defending against someone coming through the bedroom door, they may be legally blind but in need of using a firearm.  Training would be easier, but in actual SD/HD scenarios, that might not be equivalent.

Unless there's a minimum standard set for seeing, hearing, or whatever other physical limitations people have, the Second Amendment applies to them as with anyone else.

I can definitely see the legally blind issue.  I have a number of friends who are legally bling without glasses/lenses.  I think a couple were able to get at least partial correction with Lasik, but not positive.  Hell, my vision isn't the greatest without my contacts, but my vision isn't that bad where my face is blurry when I put on my contacts. 

Regarding minimum standards for seeing, hearing, etc, I wasn't saying that there should be any for 2A.  I was just saying that I personally would have serious reservations on working with someone who is blind. 

Drakiir84

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 07:42:31 AM »
This is what I use, adjust as required.  If you're teaching a non-NRA course(like the 4+2 hour class) then it must have "this is not an NRA-approved course".  If you are teaching the official NRA curriculum then erase it.

Affidavit must be notarized.  If I just have a few, I get it done at my credit union which doesn't charge.

There is no requirement to state that the course is not an NRA course.  Legally, Hawaii requires the course to be taught by an NRA certified instructor and meet the other requirements, not that they teach an NRA course or state what type of course they're teaching.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

zippz

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2017, 07:55:04 AM »
There is no requirement to state that the course is not an NRA course.  Legally, Hawaii requires the course to be taught by an NRA certified instructor and meet the other requirements, not that they teach an NRA course or state what type of course they're teaching.

You'll get your NRA credentials revoked if you don't include the phrase.

The NRA authorizes its Training Counselors and NRA Certified Instructors to teach official NRA courses only.  The NRA name may not be used in connection with any course that is not taught in accordance with NRA training standards.  This includes the use of the titles NRA Training Counselor and NRA Certified Instructor unless a clear disclaimer is made stating when a course is not NRA-approved.  Any written material used or issued in connection with a non-NRA course may not use the titles NRA Training Counselor or NRA Certified Instructor unless the same material contains the written disclaimer (in print of at least the same size as the titles), “THIS IS NOT AN NRA-APPROVED COURSE.” The use of the NRA name, trainer title(s), or trainer emblem(s) must not be used in such a manner as to cause the public to reasonably believe the user is an NRA employee or that their location is an NRA place of business.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

Drakiir84

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2017, 08:00:08 AM »
You'll get your NRA credentials revoked if you don't include the phrase.

The NRA authorizes its Training Counselors and NRA Certified Instructors to teach official NRA courses only.  The NRA name may not be used in connection with any course that is not taught in accordance with NRA training standards.  This includes the use of the titles NRA Training Counselor and NRA Certified Instructor unless a clear disclaimer is made stating when a course is not NRA-approved.  Any written material used or issued in connection with a non-NRA course may not use the titles NRA Training Counselor or NRA Certified Instructor unless the same material contains the written disclaimer (in print of at least the same size as the titles), “THIS IS NOT AN NRA-APPROVED COURSE.” The use of the NRA name, trainer title(s), or trainer emblem(s) must not be used in such a manner as to cause the public to reasonably believe the user is an NRA employee or that their location is an NRA place of business.

Didn't know the NRA had the surveillance infrastructure or connection with the HPD to review every affidavit issued by instructors.  Hawaii affidavits require my instructor number, not my title.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

drck1000

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2017, 08:05:26 AM »
Didn't know the NRA had the surveillance infrastructure or connection with the HPD to review every affidavit issued by instructors.  Hawaii affidavits require my instructor number, not my title.
I never put my instructor number. The form that I have used did state that “the affiant is an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor...”. Hope I don’t get in trouble.  :shake:

zippz

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2017, 08:11:05 AM »
Didn't know the NRA had the surveillance infrastructure or connection with the HPD to review every affidavit issued by instructors.  Hawaii affidavits require my instructor number, not my title.

The NRA made a big deal of this at their course, they looked at my affidavit and said the phrase has to go on there.  It comes up when the student sends an inquiry or complaint to the NRA who will then investigate the instructor.

Per state law, you have to mention you are a certified NRA instructor on the affidavit:

     (4)  A firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor or a certified military firearms instructor that provides...

NRA number's not required, but I put it on anyways.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

Drakiir84

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »
I never put my instructor number. The form that I have used did state that “the affiant is an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor...”. Hope I don’t get in trouble.  :shake:

lol, indeed, I copied LIFE's format.  The wife takes care of the paperwork, I sign.  It includes the, “the affiant is an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor...”, I include my number, still don't have a disclaimer.  Like you I only teach friends or people my friends vouch for.  Don't see anyone turning me in anytime soon. 

When the NRA takes their heads out of their asses, maybe I'll think about teaching their official class again.  Their course change was nothing more than a money grab and did nothing to help instructors in Hawaii that are still required to have the in person classroom time.  I'm amazed that anyone would do the mind numbing online course and follow it up with the state required class.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

zippz

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 08:29:15 AM »
When the NRA takes their heads out of their asses, maybe I'll think about teaching their official class again.  Their course change was nothing more than a money grab and did nothing to help instructors in Hawaii that are still required to have the in person classroom time.  I'm amazed that anyone would do the mind numbing online course and follow it up with the state required class.

Online class is optional now.  They returned to the instructor led  format a while ago.

You can get the current updates at
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

Drakiir84

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 08:43:00 AM »
Last I recall the NRA basics of pistol shooting course was an 8 hour class which is why we don't teach it in LIFE.  We taught something closer to the Home Safety course since it met the 4 hour requirement. 

EDIT:  NRA still teaching students to pick up the gun near the muzzle with the weak hand and requires the "Performance check list requirement" to pass the course.  Not a fan bro... not a fan.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 09:13:02 AM by Drakiir84 »
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

Tom_G

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 09:17:50 AM »
Last I recall the NRA basics of pistol shooting course was an 8 hour class which is why we don't teach it in LIFE.  We taught something closer to the Home Safety course since it met the 4 hour requirement. 

EDIT:  NRA still teaching students to pick up the gun near the muzzle with the weak hand and requires the "Performance check list requirement" to pass the course.  Not a fan bro... not a fan.

Used to be that NRA had a scaled-down version of the class called "First Steps." It was the pistol class, but pared way down to exactly one pistol. This was designed for the student who had already bought one pistol and was belatedly seeking education on it. However, since NRA allows an instructor to add relevant material, we'd re-insert everything from Basic Pistol. We could legitimately claim that the class had been an NRA First Steps class, because the time and content requirements were met.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

zippz

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 12:11:19 PM »
The non-NRA Basic Pistol courses are giving me a headache.  I'm trying to put together a Basic Pistol Instructor class, but I'm having problems  with students not meeting the prerequisite of having taken the NRA Basic Pistol course.    Everyone's either military or gone through a non-NRA course so I'd have to give them the official NRA Basic Pistol course since almost no one offers it here.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

screen

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 01:02:07 PM »
This is what I use, adjust as required.  If you're teaching a non-NRA course(like the 4+2 hour class) then it must have "this is not an NRA-approved course".  If you are teaching the official NRA curriculum then erase it.

Affidavit must be notarized.  If I just have a few, I get it done at my credit union which doesn't charge.

This is incredibly helpful,  thank you.
Training available at AthenaeumTraining.com

Drakiir84

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2017, 02:18:27 PM »
Used to be that NRA had a scaled-down version of the class called "First Steps." It was the pistol class, but pared way down to exactly one pistol. This was designed for the student who had already bought one pistol and was belatedly seeking education on it. However, since NRA allows an instructor to add relevant material, we'd re-insert everything from Basic Pistol. We could legitimately claim that the class had been an NRA First Steps class, because the time and content requirements were met.

First Steps!!!  That's what it's called, thanks Tom lol.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

Drakiir84

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2017, 02:20:16 PM »
The non-NRA Basic Pistol courses are giving me a headache.  I'm trying to put together a Basic Pistol Instructor class, but I'm having problems  with students not meeting the prerequisite of having taken the NRA Basic Pistol course.    Everyone's either military or gone through a non-NRA course so I'd have to give them the official NRA Basic Pistol course since almost no one offers it here.

Just wondering, but why are you so intent on offering an actual NRA course instead of supplementing your own class with their material?
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

zippz

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2017, 03:33:56 AM »
Just wondering, but why are you so intent on offering an actual NRA course instead of supplementing your own class with their material?

1.  If they want to become NRA instructors, they'll have to do Basic Pistol all over again.  I wouldn't want to do the basic course all over again and if no one teaches it, they can't become an instructor.
2.  It's nationally recognized.
3.  Gives them some buy in to the NRA.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

drck1000

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 11:53:47 AM »
Last I recall the NRA basics of pistol shooting course was an 8 hour class which is why we don't teach it in LIFE.  We taught something closer to the Home Safety course since it met the 4 hour requirement. 

EDIT: NRA still teaching students to pick up the gun near the muzzle with the weak hand and requires the "Performance check list requirement" to pass the course.  Not a fan bro... not a fan.
We've had a lot of discussion on this and I too hate that and I DON'T do it myself.  I've gotten corrected that that's the "NRA way".  There are many other "NRA way" things that I disagree with.  I just advise on what the NRA way is, but I teach what I feel is right.  If NRA wants to pull my certificate for that, so be it. 

Surf

Re: Instructors chat
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2017, 05:41:52 PM »
I see Zippz point about creating NRA instructors and while I get it from the NRA standpoint, it is indeed a shame that you must take the NRA basic pistol course first.

As for the NRA instructor course, it is extremely basic especially on the civilian side and even the NRALE side is very basic.  But the NRA is nationally recognized and understood.  Unfortunately I don't put much weight on someone who says that they are an NRA instructor for reasons that don't need much explanation.  I don't automatically discount them, but if that is their only formal training as an instructor, I definitely need to see more out of them first. 

I also understand why people don't teach sanctioned NRA courses and I don't do it either.  As an individual's training, experience, and professional development progress, it is difficult and not "in good faith" to teach things that one does not agree with on a professional level.