2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: Q on August 02, 2013, 01:50:08 AM
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Sounds reasonable to me. But in today's society of 'free' stuff, it's no wonder the freeloaders think that's a no good deal. SMH
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your dad is not an asshole
he is just asking for fairness and decorum
unfortunately, our society and governmental system has led people to fell entitled to everything without contributing
your dad is a real man
More of a rant, but I wanted everyone's opinion. My father is assuming control of our property, and the freeloaders that have been taking advantage of my grandparents are starting to scramble because they know the free ride may be coming to an end. My father wants to impose common sense, basic rules and standards, yet they feel these are 'too harsh' and unfair. These are the standards:
1. Financial contributions for the maintenance of the house are set at a designated rate, and if one is unable to meet the agreed upon amount, it will be discussed and a plan of action to fix the issue. However, if one continues to fail to meet their financial obligations because of their own irresponsibility and/or lack of effort, they will be removed from the property.
2. Same as above, only this rule designates that there will be rules, standards and obligations with regards to the care and maintenance of the house; i.e. chores.
3. A person will be placed in control to oversee the property in my fathers absence, who is expected to hold all individuals living on the property to the standard and ensure they fulfill their obligations. If this person demonstrates that they cannot administer their power in a fair, unbiased manner, or that they simply cannot fulfill the requirements of their position, then they will be removed from their post and another individual will be assigned to their position.
Thats just the basics, but apparently, this new system is totally unfair, cruel and evil, because the people living on the property are freeloading family members with no sense of responsibility or accountability for their actions.
Just wanted to see how others conduct their households to make sure my dad isn't being an asshole like they are trying to portray him as.
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your dad is not an asshole
he is just asking for fairness and decorum
unfortunately, our society and governmental system has led people to fell entitled to everything without contributing
your dad is a real man
Exactly!
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Exactly!
+1
Nothing unfair, cruel and evil about your father's standards. Sounds more than reasonable to me.
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In the same boat. I assign minor or light chores around the house. Probably best use is in a “Safety in numbers” role as a house with lots of members or vehicles will less likely be invaded and burglarized and also more people to hold a gun in shtf.
The outlook is not good, the outcome is that they will end up in the street, no sense in blaming anyone including yourself, pray for patience, tolerance and mercy, and a future reward from God. However you treat your fellow man(people) you will be treated the same from God.
It is said in the Bible that in the “end of days” man will be looking for a way out, but he will find none.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/08/02/poll-record-number-21-million-young-adults-living-with-parents/ (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/08/02/poll-record-number-21-million-young-adults-living-with-parents/)
Study: Record Number 21 Million Young Adults Living With Parents
WASHINGTON (CBSDC) — A record number of young adults are living with their parents.
A new study from Pew Research finds that 36 percent of Millennials – young adults ages 18 to 31 – are living at their parents’ homes, the highest number in four decades. A record 21.6 million young adults were still living at home last year.
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Sounds like your Dad is just installing the basics.
common sense rules and regulations
Kudos to him !
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think of clint in gran torino
of course without the dying in the end part
If your dad is considered an asshole for what he is doing and for the knowledge he is trying to impart, then the world could benedit from more assholes, like him.
I hope the designated "luna" of the family understands how difficult it may be, at first, to gain any kind of traction and support from the other family members, particularly when the "luna" will be the physical embodiment of all that is contrary to their prior way of life.
That individual might benefit from adopting a Mills Lane like approach, and not allow emotion to get in the way of being fair, firm, consistent, respectful, and equitable.
A bumpy road lies ahead, for all, but definitely well worth the effort, in the long run.
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Nobody growing up on the mainland when I was a teenager stayed in their parent's homes after age 18. We went off to college, joined the military, or got jobs and roommates to split expenses until our incomes allowed living alone.
My daughters were welcome to stay with me (for free) until they finished their undergrad degrees. Both worked part time which helped me (less allowance money). Now that that's done, they took over their own car payments and are paying me rent every month. In lieu of rent, they have the option of doing labor around the house -- landscaping, cleaning the kitchen for all of us, etc. They opted to pay rent :)
Both girls will probably be on their own within a year or so from now, making good money and able to buy small places of their own. Then I will be an official "empty nester"! :thumbsup:
Teach people to take advantage of others, and they learn this is their easiest option. Teach people to be independent, and they learn to value their own abilities and liberties.
If the relatives you mentioned are used to the easy life -- no effort, no responsibility, no cost -- of course there will be some whining if that changes. If they are mature, they will understand nobody gets to live for free! Allowing them to get what they want for nothing is NOT compassion. It is a complete disservice to the people you want to help. If they CAN make it on their own, they SHOULD be doing that. Living off someone else lowers their own self esteem and atrophies their ability to support themselves over time.
Gravy trains don't last forever.....
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Tough love is tough love, the entitlement generation is an ugly stigma, but for all intent and purposes sometimes the situation is just that,
the times have changed and no matter the circumstances it will not change, as I said "Man will be looking for a way out and will find none."
What happens when the real economy collapses and there is virtually no jobs anywhere, nada, no government, no government handouts, zero everything?
Sizzlers closed the other day, just like that no warning, not even a day advance notice. If your the bread winner, what are you going to do, as my article will say, 77% chance you are only going to get a part time job, good enough to only pay for your new car loan, many will be on the streets, or hello Pa, hello ma.
Back to the 77%
Times have truly changed.
It’s getting hard out there, 77% of jobs created in 2013 are part time…
77% only part time.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-02/obamacare-full-frontal-953000-jobs-created-2013-77-or-731000-are-part-time (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-02/obamacare-full-frontal-953000-jobs-created-2013-77-or-731000-are-part-time)
Obamacare Full Frontal: Of 953,000 Jobs Created In 2013, 77%, Or 731,000 Are Part-Time
When the payroll report was released last month, the world finally noticed what we had been saying for nearly three years: that the US was slowly being converted to a part-time worker society.
AND if you are a black teenager, it is even worse!
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/02/Black-Teen-Unemployment-rate-is-416 (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/02/Black-Teen-Unemployment-rate-is-416)
Shocking: Black Teen Unemployment Rate 41.6%
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the other problem is that due to hawaii's tenant laws, you cannot kick them out
if g-ma allowed them to stay, they have the right to stay, even if they are committing crimes
Thanks for the input thus far, guys.
The problem with this household is that most, if not all, of the family that lived here took advantage of the kindness that my grandparents shared, as they had that old school ohana attitude. Unfortunately, it was that attitude that allowed people to milk the system, and leave my grandparents to die poor, with the household falling apart.
I cant see how people, especially family, don't have the moral correctness to do what is right and contribute, and even more so, I can't understand how individuals can bitch and moan when common sense rules and regulations are put in place.
They are lucky it wasn't my decision; I rule with an iron fist. But my father is hoping to keep the family together by being lenient with his rules, and I guess its not enough.
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the other problem is that due to hawaii's tenant laws, you cannot kick them out
if g-ma allowed them to stay, they have the right to stay, even if they are committing crimes
They have no lease and no proof that anyone let them stay.
Pay or beat it.
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If you are looking for a real answer to the situation, consult a lawyer.
What I personally would do is have each tenant sign a 12-month lease agreement. This establishes they owe rent, utilities, whatever you decide to collect. You (of course, that means the landlord) then can use that money for repairs, taxes, utilities, mortgage, profit and so forth. This becomes a business and therefore brings some income tax issues. Operating costs lower income (less tax) and rents increase revenue (more tax). If you take in $10,000 of rent money this year, and spend $20,000 fixing up the house, you reduce your personal taxable income by the extra $10,000 in operational expenses. You can also reduce personal taxes by writing off the depreciation of the property.
Once the landlord/tenant relationship is defined, eviction is done by following the law, and you can have the court and LE help.
Keeping it as "relatives living as a family" muddies the water. Technically, unless their names are on the title, they have no claim of ownership. However, as macsak said, the courts probably see them as tenants (albeit freeloading tenants). You may still have to follow the eviction process to avoid lawsuits.
One other solution to consider. Sell the house to another party, hire a rental manager, and then it's purely a business arrangement, not a personal family situation.
Just thinking out loud... wish you luck!
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Essentially, there is no lease agreement; it was just a family rule that if anyone needed a place to stay to 'get back on their feet', my grandparents opened their home and lives up with open arms. However, certain individuals saw this as a way to live an essentially bill-free life, destroying our family home, and many of them literally stealing all of our grandparents money, and in the end bailing out while leaving my grandparents to pick up the pieces and pay the bills. Unfortunately, our grandparents failed to act, as they were afraid that the family would fall apart. But now that it has been established that my father is the patriarch, the lazy ass freeloaders know that the gravy train ride is over, and they are afraid as well as pissed off, because they thought the ride would never end.
The money contributed to the household is essentially a maintenance fund, which covers the wear and tear that these individuals put on the house, as well as covers any utilities or services they wish to use. A lot of my family members used to order oceanic digital and internet up the ying yang, burn up utilities like it was free, and had my grandparents spending their whole paychecks to cover everyone else's bill, while these individuals could go out and party/do whatever the hell they wanted and steal their money.
I honestly feel my father is being too lenient, but it is ultimately his decision. Honestly though, since they are passing the torch on to him, he could just flip the switch and toss them all out on their asses (which is what I would do); but my father honestly wants to protect our family's legacy by keeping the house the way my grandfather had it.
Something tells me these assholes that live with me are Obama supporters :rofl:
Live with you? So you're freeloading on your grandparents, too? :o
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it is my understanding that is not the way it works
if they were allowed to stay there for free, they are tenants and protected by the law
supposedly, the law is to prevent people from being slumlords
but it favors the tenants so much that these types of situations where aunties or other kupuna let others live with them lead to problems with kicking them out
They have no lease and no proof that anyone let them stay.
Pay or beat it.
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It is a truly sad day when family takes advantage of each other...what a shame! I wish you all the best, though it sounds like if the gravy train stops it will cause what your Grandfather was trying to avoid. I am all for helping out family and people who are going through hard times, but when that help starts putting you into a financial bind, well something has to be done. Hopefully they step up and do what is right!
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Everyone else that is morally and financially responsible agrees with the changes; its just those who have not been contributing that are complaining about the changes.
Then I don't see much of a problem. You have a meeting with them all, lay it out fairly and evenly, and explain that's how it is. Be willing to listen to suggestions, but do not get dragged into arguments. Treat everyone like adults, and most will probably respond as such.
I would recommend a video recorder for the meeting. Anybody gets aggressive or threatening, you have evidence for immediate removal and maybe a TRO. Domestic violence isn't just between spouses and honeys.
Change is sometimes unpleasant, but it is also inevitable...
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I would recommend a video recorder for the meeting. Anybody gets aggressive or threatening, you have evidence for immediate removal and maybe a TRO. Domestic violence isn't just between spouses and honeys.
^ Mainland mentality. :wtf:
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^ Mainland mentality. :wtf:
Yeah, if using your brain and protecting yourself legally with everyday technology is mainland mentality, I guess the "mainland way" is just overrunning Oahu ...
Seen any surveillance footage of McDonald's in Waikiki at 2:30AM lately?
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Yeah, if using your brain and protecting yourself legally with everyday technology is mainland mentality, I guess the "mainland way" is just overrunning Oahu ...
Seen any surveillance footage of McDonald's in Waikiki at 2:30AM lately?
Sad
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Sad
... "mainland mentality?" So, that's an insult or something?
When someone's cushy setup is threatened and they feel like you're attacking them financially, personally, whatever, they are capable of pretty much anything. Rather than get into it with a relative, especially if it disrespects the parents' or grandparent's wishes, I'd choose to just evict the troublemakers. Having a little evidence will make the complaint (and the eviction) a lot quicker. Dragging out the drama is just prolonging the pain and making everyone involved deal with a bad situation.
What's sad is you feel like singling my post out and making ignorant remarks. So far, that's just par for the course, huh?
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... "mainland mentality?" So, that's an insult or something?
When someone's cushy setup is threatened and they feel like you're attacking them financially, personally, whatever, they are capable of pretty much anything. Rather than get into it with a relative, especially if it disrespects the parents' or grandparent's wishes, I'd choose to just evict the troublemakers. Having a little evidence will make the complaint (and the eviction) a lot quicker. Dragging out the drama is just prolonging the pain and making everyone involved deal with a bad situation.
What's sad is you feel like singling my post out and making ignorant remarks. So far, that's just par for the course, huh?
Do you even own a firearm?
Why are you here?
All you do is put down local people and make snide or condescending remarks.
Why are you even here?
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Do you even own a firearm?
Why are you here?
All you do is put down local people and make snide or condescending remarks.
Why are you even here?
Put down local people? No, just you!
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Put down local people? No, just you!
Live with you? So you're freeloading on your grandparents, too? :o
Nope, you put down many people
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Nope, you put down many people
So says you.
Obviously Q understood the sarcasm. You did, too, I'm sure.
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So says you.
Obviously Q understood the sarcasm. You did, too, I'm sure.
Great move.
Insult someone and when you're called on it, back down and say "he knew I was just kidding"
You remind me of Kollin Elderts friend.
Sad
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Great move.
Insult someone and when you're called on it, back down and say "he knew I was just kidding"
You remind me of Kollin Elderts friend.
Sad
You going to follow me around from thread to thread? People are going to think you're in love with me!
:-* :-* :-*
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Essentially, there is no lease agreement; it was just a family rule that if anyone needed a place to stay to 'get back on their feet', my grandparents opened their home and lives up with open arms. However, certain individuals saw this as a way to live an essentially bill-free life, destroying our family home, and many of them literally stealing all of our grandparents money, and in the end bailing out while leaving my grandparents to pick up the pieces and pay the bills. Unfortunately, our grandparents failed to act, as they were afraid that the family would fall apart. But now that it has been established that my father is the patriarch, the lazy ass freeloaders know that the gravy train ride is over, and they are afraid as well as pissed off, because they thought the ride would never end.
The money contributed to the household is essentially a maintenance fund, which covers the wear and tear that these individuals put on the house, as well as covers any utilities or services they wish to use. A lot of my family members used to order oceanic digital and internet up the ying yang, burn up utilities like it was free, and had my grandparents spending their whole paychecks to cover everyone else's bill, while these individuals could go out and party/do whatever the hell they wanted and steal their money.
I honestly feel my father is being too lenient, but it is ultimately his decision. Honestly though, since they are passing the torch on to him, he could just flip the switch and toss them all out on their asses (which is what I would do); but my father honestly wants to protect our family's legacy by keeping the house the way my grandfather had it.
Something tells me these assholes that live with me are Obama supporters :rofl:
Your dad is definitely fair.
I find out anyone freeloading off of my grandparents I'd kick their ass out right away. You don't have any lease or paperwork then PUUUUUUNNNNT goes you and your lazy ass. Man, taking advantage of the elderly. Good for you Q. Its great you know whats right and how to live. Must be hard living next to shitbags.
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Q,
I feel your pain man. When you're dealing with all family members it's a whole different ballgame.
A lot of the suggestions don't seem to take into account that this is all in the Ohana.
I think your Dad is on the right track though.
KK and Moosed, maybe you guys should start your own thread:
"KK vs. Moosed, or Moosed vs. KK"
Try to keep race out of it though. No room for that anywhere.
I'm not sayin' anyone did or they didn't, I'm just sayin'
( And yes, I confess, I am guilty of saying "Mainland Mentality" in certain situations )
:stopjack:
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