2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: passivekinetic on August 18, 2013, 10:00:39 AM
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So, there is tons of info out there on what is really necessary for cleaning bores.
It almost seems like you can use ANYTHING as long as you do not pit the bore.
What is the consensus here?
I have read of Ed's Red, etc.
(Right now because I have it, I just still use CLP and Hoppe's --> Hoppe's the bore, then clean everything using CLP, including "rinsing" out the Hoppe's using CLP in the bore, wipe excess and put away).
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yups. use what you have available.
I have mineral spirits so i soak my stuff in that then oil it afterwards
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All my cleaning is done with either Hoppes, CLP, Eds Red, or ballistol. They all work very well, and I can't say one works amazing better than the other. Eds Red is by far the cheapest, as it only costs me about 4 dollars to make a pint jar full of it, which lasts a LONG time. Over the years I managed to aquire a lot of Hoppe's #9 from various cleaning kits and such, and I'm still going thru it all. CLP is a classic, even if its only an "ok" cleaner and an "ok" lube. It still works for what you need it to do. I also have a big can of ballistol I got from one of the gun shows that I'm still working my way thru. Stuff works great, and I use it on my wood stocked guns, since it actually helps condition the wood. The acetone in eds red can really eat thru a finish if you don't clean it off well.
In truth, I don't clean my guns as often or as thoroughly as people tell me I should. I usually do it when I'm bored and want to keep my hands busy. In general, I'm more in favor of minimal cleaning, but using lots of lube.
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I can't help trying to read your name backwards now since you explained it.
Now I got to go read your actual post, since I was distracted so much.
:D
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All my cleaning is done with either Hoppes, CLP, Eds Red, or ballistol. They all work very well, and I can't say one works amazing better than the other. Eds Red is by far the cheapest, as it only costs me about 4 dollars to make a pint jar full of it, which lasts a LONG time. Over the years I managed to aquire a lot of Hoppe's #9 from various cleaning kits and such, and I'm still going thru it all. CLP is a classic, even if its only an "ok" cleaner and an "ok" lube. It still works for what you need it to do. I also have a big can of ballistol I got from one of the gun shows that I'm still working my way thru. Stuff works great, and I use it on my wood stocked guns, since it actually helps condition the wood. The acetone in eds red can really eat thru a finish if you don't clean it off well.
In truth, I don't clean my guns as often or as thoroughly as people tell me I should. I usually do it when I'm bored and want to keep my hands busy. In general, I'm more in favor of minimal cleaning, but using lots of lube.
What kind of lube?
I just use CLP on the moving surfaces mostly. I do have some Hoppe's gun oil (not sure the type) with the needle type dropper.
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Well both CLP and ballistol are decent enough lubes. Though I find CLP to be more of a usage lube, which means it gets applied the day of shooting, since it tends to dry out and leaves a "dry coat" when stored. I usually have CLP in my range bag, and is my go to when I feel my gun needs to be a bit wetter. I'd say one of the best lubes I've ever used was militec-1, but that stuff is pricey, and for the volume and conditions I shoot, its overkill.
I've also used (and this is always up for debate) mobile1 synthetic motor oil, when I'm running low on the CLP. It works, and is cheap as hell. An 8 dollar quart will last you a looong time. Since I'm fairly liberal with my lube, this works well for me.
I think its not so much the type of lube you use, but the proper and adequate application of it that makes the difference.
I'm also a big fan of using grease on certain parts of a gun. I like using a small dab on the slide rails of my handguns, where the slide meets the frame. As well as a little bit on the "high wear" spots on my bolt carrier group for my AR (pretty much the 4 spots with the obvious rubbing and wear), and on my charging handle. Pretty much on parts that only slide, and where it wont get gunked up. I also use grease on my m1a. For grease I use the cheap automotive white lithium grease from O'reilly's, I think it cost $5 for a 1lb tub, and that's enough for a lifetime of use. I could never justify paying for gun specific grease that's $10 for a few ounces, when this stuff works just fine. Just remember to use incredibly sparingly, or else you'll have grease flying in your face the first few shots.
I have no doubt that some of the high end lubes/cleaners out there would work better, but I personally wont pay that much for a marginal increase in performance. Whatever I'm doing is working now, so I don't see a reason to change it.
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Oh! I forgot. I also use a bit of Brian Eno's SLIDE GLIDE on my pistols.
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I will look into the lithium grease.
As I understand it, the lithium grease is so that it does not get burned off that easily from heat.
I also heard of FROG LUBE but never used it. I think it is supposed to be all-in-one and non-toxic, etc. but you have to remove all other oils from your gun before using.
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I've heard of people using the red bearing grease to similar effect too. It just seems to work well because it stays where I put it, and doesn't get cooked off. Some people will argue that it makes cleaning a little tougher, but it hasn't been a problem for me. I wouldn't suggest using only grease, as that could cause problems in the nooks and crannies. Just in the spots where appropriate.
Frog lube is currently the "best lube ever". I'm sure it works great, I've heard nothing but stellar reviews on the product. But its definitely an investment. If you start using frog lube, you end up only using frog lube. I think I saw the starter kits for sale for $53 at Honolulu Firearms last time I was there.
For $53 dollars I could mix up half a gallon of eds red, buy a quart of synthetic oil, a tub of grease, and a couple of decent sized bottle of CLP. I know I'm coming off sounding cheap, I guess its because I kind of am... Maybe if I was in the sandbox being shot at and shooting people on a daily basis, I'd put more money into the products I use on my gun. But I'm not. I'm just a civilian recreational shooter, and what I use works for me, and use the money I save to buy more ammo.
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This is the recipe I have for Ed's Red. I read there are a few variants but apparently this was the "final version" that Ed settled on. Is this also similar/exact to how you are mixing yours?
CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner
1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)
MIXING INSTRUCTIONS FOR "ER" BORE CLEANER:
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal,
chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA
approved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use
HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will eventually evaporate.
The acetone in ER will also attack HDPE, causing the container to
collapse, making a heck of a mess!
Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other
components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the
lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking
precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger
container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and
stirring until it is all dissolved.
I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the
50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for optional use as an "ER-compatible" gun oil.
This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining
mix.
LABEL AND NECESSARY SAFETY WARNINGS:
RIFLE BORE CLEANER CAUTION: FLAMMABLE MIXTURE
HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
1. Flammable mixture. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.
2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician
immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with
water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.
3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist.
It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner
inconsistent with its labeling. Reports have associated repeated and
prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and
nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced
air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or
equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING "Ed's Red (ER)" Bore Cleaner:
1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is
most effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch
from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale
on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch
should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it
back into the bore.
2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the
breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes
and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting
approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its
action.
3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled "rattle battle" guns, leaded
revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be
used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth,
target-grade barrels in routine use.
4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out
loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag
without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing,
leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average
conditions.
5. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the
firearm from rust for up to two years. For longer term storage I
recommend use of Lee Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. "ER" will
readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.
6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun.
While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it
contains is harmful to most wood finishes).
7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry
the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag.
First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if
the bore is cleaned as described.
8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used
exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after
use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not
wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder
fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy
fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush
with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual
moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART
whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all
the corrosive residue out.
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Yeah I was just thinking about possibly using wheel grease after you mentioned motor oil. I think I remember speedy or someone else mentioning using motor oil as lube.
At least we have the opportunity now to test different products and methods.
I also remember hearing or reading somewhere that during WW2 the Russians used oil to keep their bolt actions lubed during winter. And their guns worked flawless, as opposed to the Germans who would have failures or guns would freeze close.
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For $53 dollars I could mix up half a gallon of eds red, buy a quart of synthetic oil, a tub of grease, and a couple of decent sized bottle of CLP. I know I'm coming off sounding cheap, I guess its because I kind of am... Maybe if I was in the sandbox being shot at and shooting people on a daily basis, I'd put more money into the products I use on my gun. But I'm not. I'm just a civilian recreational shooter, and what I use works for me, and use the money I save to buy more ammo.
kinda where im at.I got a few gallons of breakfree clp at a gun show for cheap.lightly clean after the range and thats it.
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That's the recipe I use for Ed's red. Except I leave out the lanolin, since I didn't know where to get it in bulk on island. The only place I saw it was in small tubes in the nursing section of Wal-mart. In general I just make small batches using mason jars. The jars have lines on the side so its easy to measure when pouring in the ingredients, and the size is perfect if I just want to dunk my whole pistol barrel in and let it soak for a bit.
Thicker viscosity oils and greases tend to gum up bad in freezing temps. I generally don't like thinner lubes, like rem-oil, but if I lived somewhere with an actual winter, I would need to have those bases covered as well. Lucky we live Hawaii though.
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Yeah I was just thinking about possibly using wheel grease after you mentioned motor oil. I think I remember speedy or someone else mentioning using motor oil as lube.
At least we have the opportunity now to test different products and methods.
I also remember hearing or reading somewhere that during WW2 the Russians used oil to keep their bolt actions lubed during winter. And their guns worked flawless, as opposed to the Germans who would have failures or guns would freeze close.
Russians used AKs during WW2 right?
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I'm using a mix of MPro7 and Froglube.
I like froglube because it works well (especially on rifles). It does not work well on say something like a .22lr pistol (imo). For that I use Mpro7 clearner / lubricant.
I do like the mpro for inside the barrel!
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Mosin Nagants.
The AK didn't happen until 1947, hence the "47". I don't think it was actually fielded until '49.
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.
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I'm using a mix of MPro7 and Froglube.
I like froglube because it works well (especially on rifles). It does not work well on say something like a .22lr pistol (imo). For that I use Mpro7 clearner / lubricant.
I do like the mpro for inside the barrel!
I've heard good things about Mpro products, but I just can't justify adding another brand and bottle of cleaner or lube to my pile at this time. I actually almost bought some the last time I was at OGC, but resisted the urge. I need to focus more on making my guns dirty, than making them clean again. I really need to go shoot something, its been like a month...
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I'm using a mix of MPro7 and Froglube.
I like froglube because it works well (especially on rifles). It does not work well on say something like a .22lr pistol (imo). For that I use Mpro7 clearner / lubricant.
I do like the mpro for inside the barrel!
Yeah, you got me hooked on froglube as well. I like having a natural, non-petroleum based product; especially with that outstanding wintergreen smell! :rofl:
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WW2 was from 1939-1945.
Oops! ;D
No AK39? It uses the x39mm.... nevermind :D
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Nope WW2 was bolt actions and M1s
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I use Ballistol to clean and then add Slip 2000 to the barrel and moving parts.
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I use Gunslick foaming bore cleaner and then brush and patches with Hoppes. I'll then follow up with a dry patch and then finish with a patch with Ballistol.
For lube, I've gone from Slip 2000 to FireClean for ARs and TetraGun for handguns. I just use the Tetragun for handguns because I have a lot of it left. I'll use something else when it's gone.
I also have Militec, but haven't used it for anything.
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Something I'll say about ballistol, its a really good cleaner/protectant, but IMO just a tad thin for lube. And it is by far the worst smelling cleaner I own.
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Something I'll say about ballistol, its a really good cleaner/protectant, but IMO just a tad thin for lube. And it is by far the worst smelling cleaner I own.
That's funny. I've had people tell me that they like the smell of Ballistol, but they probably have deodorant that's smells like burning gun powder. Haha.
Lots of people say Frog Lube smells good.
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A good quality dextron ATF is really good stuff.
Loaded with detergents, provides good lubrication, doesn't gum up at low temps and fights corrosion.
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All the solvents work. The key is, use your bronze brush. It doesn't hurt your barrel.
And remember when it comes to lube, it's a double edge sword. Grease and oil lubricate but also trap grit which grinds metal.
That is all I got to say about that.
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That's funny. I've had people tell me that they like the smell of Ballistol, but they probably have deodorant that's smells like burning gun powder. Haha.
Lots of people say Frog Lube smells good.
I can't *STAND* the smell of ballistol. It's freaking horrible. By far, and I mean far, froglube smells the best - and arguably 'good'.
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I'm a manly man who generally doesn't give a hoot about the so-called "health effects" of various chemicals, but I will say that I love M-Pro 7 cleaners for their lack of smell. No headache, no high-pitched whine from the lady of the house, it's great. I recently picked up a bottle of M-Pro's gun oil and I'll give it a shot, just because I like to keep things uniform. I wonder if it protects against corrosion as well as Break-free?
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Does it matter if we use different brands of cleaners and oils all the time or should we stick with one type for the life of the firearm?
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Does it matter if we use different brands of cleaners and oils all the time or should we stick with one type for the life of the firearm?
I don't think you would hurt the guns feelings. Use what you have available, available at the moment or whatever works best, what you picked up on the way home to get you by, etc
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The only thing I can think of is inadvertent chemical interactions between the various additive ingredients of different oils, etc.
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For initial removal of crud, i spray with carburator cleaner....then use Hoppe's for bore. For cleaning out lead, i use a 50/50 mixture solution of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar...works really great for just a couple minutes soaking...I use wd40 and regular motor oil for lubing.
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Ack! I would never use Wd-40 for lube in a gun. In general Wd-40 is a good penetrator, but a bad lube.
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Been using wd40 for over 25 years, and my guns seem ok with them...i use regular oil on the moving/chaffing parts.
Ack! I would never use Wd-40 for lube in a gun. In general Wd-40 is a good penetrator, but a bad lube.
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Been using wd40 for over 25 years, and my guns seem ok with them...i use regular oil on the moving/chaffing parts.
Ive noticed that WD40 attracts dust like a magnet. Have you noticed this as well?
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No, not really....I usually, put my guns in a gun sock, and I shoot them as often as I could, but yeah, never had any problems with wd40
Ive noticed that WD40 attracts dust like a magnet. Have you noticed this as well?
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No, not really....I usually, put my guns in a gun sock, and I shoot them as often as I could, but yeah, never had any problems with wd40
Great to hear other peoples methods and what works for them. might have to add that to the list of things i should try
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I just made 3 more "pint" sized mason jars of Ed's Red to give my cousins and uncle when I see them tonight. At this rate my whole family will be using this stuff.
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I just made 3 more "pint" sized mason jars of Ed's Red to give my cousins and uncle when I see them tonight. At this rate my whole family will be using this stuff.
Hey bro, where you buy this stuff?
1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
The Dexron I am sure I can get at any auto store. But what about
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
(Walmart?)
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
???
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
???
Thanks.
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try home depot
Hey bro, where you buy this stuff?
The Dexron I am sure I can get at any auto store. But what about
(Walmart?)
???
???
Thanks.
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Hey bro, where you buy this stuff?
The Dexron I am sure I can get at any auto store. But what about
(Walmart?)
???
???
Thanks.
I got the ATF at Wal-mart. In fact I think Wal-Mart had the acetone and mineral spirits there as well, but I ended up getting everything else at city mill. It should be in the painting section. If I remember correctly, the acetone and mineral spirits hover around $9 bucks a quart. The kerosene about $14 a gallon.
This is what you need to remember about Ed's Red. Its flammable, very flammable. Don't be huffing it, I'm sure that's just asking for trouble. It is not a copper solvent, if that is an issue for you. The acetone in it will strip the finish off of wood stocks if left on for too long. Be careful in what you store it in, I'm not sure exactly what grade of plastic will work long term. I stick to either metal or glass just to be safe. Mixing up a whole gallon at once is OVERKILL, Id say just stick to small batches and see how you like it. Also, it is a dedicated cleaner, you can use the recommended 50/50 solution of atf/kerosene as it says in the original post for lube if you want. I just use whatever oil I have handy though.
And label it well, it looks like Kool-Aid.
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O thanks guys.
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Hey passive have you tried mixing a batch yet?
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Nope. I wanted to get ready for it, but on hand I still got lots of Hoppe's #9 and CLP.
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Oh ok. Wanted to know how it turned out and if it works great. I gotta take a pistol apart to clean today, and was gonna soak it in mineral spirits, so was wondering if I should get the rest of the supplies and make that mix. Might just use the mineral spirits first since i have it on hand
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Been using wd40 for over 25 years, and my guns seem ok with them...i use regular oil on the moving/chaffing parts.
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I use wd40 or similar cheap spray oil to flush gunk out of my guns. I use it like water when washing your car. Follow up with compressed air.
Then lubricate with whatever fancy lube that tickles your pickle.
BTW I just got 3 cans from Costco for $7.79. These are 12 oz. cans. see pic.