2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: BLKDRGN on September 27, 2013, 11:45:44 AM
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In no way am I endorsing this and this is just a hypothetical question for conversation. Let's say we illegally conceal carry in Hawaii for self defense. Now someone tries to hurt you with a weapon and you shoot him/her what do you think will happen to yourself? Do you go to to prison for extra long because you illegally carried? I don't believe we have a stand your ground law and nobody ever was approved for conceal carry. Would you be considered a hero for sacrificing yourself after a mass shooting and be pardened? Would you be considered just another criminal and be judged like a gangster? I heard some people say they rather go to jail and be alive then dead.
What do you think will happen if:
1. You scare off the criminal
2. You did nothing but they found out you concealed carryied
3. You injure the criminal
4. You kill the criminal
5. You injure the criminal after he killed someone else
6. You kill the criminal after he killed someone else
7. You injure the criminal after he started a mass shooting
8. You kill the criminal after he started a mass shooting
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Since you are in Hawaii, I believe you will be hanged...lol...or screwed for sure, since Hawaii is so anti-gun and liberal. Common ethical sense will not prevail.
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They feed you to that Tiger Shark off Kawaihai harbor who is probably pissed off since that idiot hooked it and messed with it, then posted it on Youtube. :thumbsup:
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The criminal will sue and live in your house while you are in jail.
The criminal's family will recall how much of a good person he/she was, how he/she was trying to provide for 10 kids and didn't deserve to get shot
The President will come on media saying how he could have been the criminal.
Anti gun supporters will have a new poster person.
A rally for criminal rights will be underway at the state capitol.
Hanabusa will argue on TV how criminals deserve rights and they are hard workers.
Schatz will present a criminal rights bill in Congress so he can develop Hill-cred
Abercrombie will unionize criminals so he can get re-elected for a third term
Criminal will eventually be on a catch and release program called HOPE.
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The criminal will sue and live in your house while you are in jail.
The criminal's family will recall how much of a good person he/she was, how he/she was trying to provide for 10 kids and didn't deserve to get shot
The President will come on media saying how he could have been the criminal.
Anti gun supporters will have a new poster person.
A rally for criminal rights will be underway at the state capitol.
Hanabusa will argue on TV how criminals deserve rights and they are hard workers.
Schatz will present a criminal rights bill in Congress so he can develop Hill-cred
Abercrombie will unionize criminals so he can get re-elected for a third term
Criminal will eventually be on a catch and release program called HOPE.
This basically sums it up. It does not matter how many kids/people/unicorns you save, in the end one is better off being a contortionist. So one will be able to kiss his own ass good bye before the prosecutor chews it all up and the victim/'s family lawyers up and hits you with a civil suit.
IMO, it is the very reason why people do not want to get involved. IMO we need Texas type laws and politicians.
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Scenario 1: You scare off the crook without discharging the weapon.
Nothing happens to you. Are you that stupid you actually called the cops to file a report? Unless you know the perp, good luck finding and arresting the bad guy!
Scenario 2: You discharge the weapon and the perp lives.
You're screwed. No matter what, gun laws here say you were wrong, so the perp's side of the story is the version that is taken as more truthful.
Scenario 3: You discharge the weapon and the perp dies,
Unless there are witnesses who contradict you, you were merely taking the unloaded firearm to a firing range/gun shop/gunsmith. You happened to have a loaded mag handy, and you somehow managed to grab the gun from the car, insert the mag, and defend yourself while the perp was beating you up.
NO MATTER WHAT, your first statement to the cops should be, "Officer, I intend to cooperate fully with your investigation. However, I think it would be in my best interest if I waited to answer your questions in the presence of my lawyer."
:)
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Scenario 1: You scare off the crook without discharging the weapon.
Nothing happens to you. Are you that stupid you actually called the cops to file a report? Unless you know the perp, good luck finding and arresting the bad guy!
Let's say you are at Zippy's and there is a huge guy there that has a knife and tries to rob you or worse tells you he's going to kill you. You buss out your piece and he runs off. There is a bunch of witnesses and one of them calls the cops. Now what?
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To quote the Irishman in Braveheart:
I just talked to God.
He says I'll be OK.
But you're Foacked.
If your gonna do it at least carry a revolver and not a semi auto.
It's less mandatory years on your sentence.
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Let's say you are at Zippy's and there is a huge guy there that has a knife and tries to rob you or worse tells you he's going to kill you. You buss out your piece and he runs off. There is a bunch of witnesses and one of them calls the cops. Now what?
First, you should have called the cops BEFORE puling the gun out. That often causes the bad guy to leave. I've done it before. Road raging fool pulls up beside me, bangs on my door. I tell him I'm calling the cops and I have his plate number. Fools hastily retreats!
Saying he's going to kill you is a threat, but doesn't make it an act of violence. I'd keep my piece out of view until I have no other choice. Then, I'd try to present it to the fool so nobody but the perp sees it.
Unless you're in a carry-friendly state, you should never pull your gun out unless you absolutely have no other choice. Then, you leave the scene if no shots are fired.
Go to timemark 2:21 ...
http://youtu.be/vMN5uQhF-Ro (http://youtu.be/vMN5uQhF-Ro)
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Let's say you are at Zippy's and there is a huge guy there that has a knife and tries to rob you or worse tells you he's going to kill you. You buss out your piece and he runs off. There is a bunch of witnesses and one of them calls the cops. Now what?
You are basically screwed. At the least, you would be charged with place to keep, be a felon, and lose all your rights. The media will make you look like a wanna be thug or vigilante, even people on this very board will admonish you for what you have done. You should have known better.
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along these lines, did they ever catch the motorcycle guys that fired the warning shots?
You are basically screwed. At the least, you would be charged with place to keep, be a felon, and lose all your rights. The media will make you look like a wanna be thug or vigilante, even people on this very board will admonish you for what you have done. You should have known better.
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Yup, he was a felon before he fired the warning shots
http://www.khon2.com/2013/08/29/suspect-in-windward-oahu-road-rage-incident-had-previous-run-ins-with-the-law/ (http://www.khon2.com/2013/08/29/suspect-in-windward-oahu-road-rage-incident-had-previous-run-ins-with-the-law/)
Funny no mention of being charged as a felon in possession of a firearm.
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Yup, he was a felon before he fired the warning shots
http://www.khon2.com/2013/08/29/suspect-in-windward-oahu-road-rage-incident-had-previous-run-ins-with-the-law/ (http://www.khon2.com/2013/08/29/suspect-in-windward-oahu-road-rage-incident-had-previous-run-ins-with-the-law/)
Funny no mention of being charged as a felon in possession of a firearm.
What, a convicted felon with a firearm? That can't be, the great politicians of this state have laws preventing such combination. Maybe we need some firearm free zones, that should solve everything...
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You are basically screwed. At the least, you would be charged with place to keep, be a felon, and lose all your rights. The media will make you look like a wanna be thug or vigilante, even people on this very board will admonish you for what you have done. You should have known better.
Very sad. We are all victims in Hawaii waiting to be victimized by some thug. Can someone tell me why the gov is more important than a regular citizen, so much so that he can have armed bodyguards and we are relegated to calling the police or using our fists if confronted with a deadly situation? Something is not right. Very sad , our parents hardworking generation let us down in this area.
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Biggest thing would be you ruin any future opportunity for a long time to have legal concealed or open carry in hawaii
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Very sad. We are all victims in Hawaii waiting to be victimized by some thug. Can someone tell me why the gov is more important than a regular citizen, so much so that he can have armed bodyguards and we are relegated to calling the police or using our fists if confronted with a deadly situation? Something is not right. Very sad , our parents hardworking generation let us down in this area.
It's got nothing to do with anything that makes sense. Someone does something bad, and the Liberal/Progressive mind says, "It can't be the perp's fault!" Society, or the family, or the government is to blame for letting them down! We should not punish, but rehabilitate!
And, to prevent the crime in the future, they pass laws that restrict freedoms in order to have a measure of control over everyone's actions, albeit a false sense of control.
Ignorance and poor judgement disguised as caring and enlightenment. One has only to look at the most crime-infested cities, and then look at how many decades those cities have been under Democrat/Progressive vs. Republican/Conservative governance.
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I will never understand how the U.S. Constitution, the supreme law of the land, does not stand up in this or any other state. How much clearer than shall not be infringed can it get.
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Personally, I am just waiting for the next mass shooting to happen somewhere where someone is actually carrying and stops the SOB in their tracks. Maybe that will shut them stupid anti gunners up.
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With current circumstances you would probably be better off with a walking or a flashlight.
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somebody photoshop a gun in his hand
(http://mmo.dragoncon.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/monopoly6.jpg)
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what about this scenario. lets say im LEGALLY hunting in a public hunting zone which permits hunting with a firearm. what if a crazy guy jumps out of the bushes with a knife and attacks me. would i be allowed to use my firearm to protect myself?
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Personally, I am just waiting for the next mass shooting to happen somewhere where someone is actually carrying and stops the SOB in their tracks. Maybe that will shut them stupid anti gunners up.
You will never hear about it from mainstream media. Maybe from Alex Jones but not CNN. It will be overlooked just as the Navy Yard shooting has been because it does not fit the agenda. Funny how that works.
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Personally, I am just waiting for the next mass shooting to happen somewhere where someone is actually carrying and stops the SOB in their tracks. Maybe that will shut them stupid anti gunners up.
You will never hear about it from mainstream media. Maybe from Alex Jones but not CNN. It will be overlooked just as the Navy Yard shooting has been because it does not fit the agenda. Funny how that works.
Either that, or there wouldn't be a mass shooting in the first place, as the nutjob would be pushing daisies.
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Personally, I am just waiting for the next mass shooting to happen somewhere where someone is actually carrying and stops the SOB in their tracks. Maybe that will shut them stupid anti gunners up.
Happened, I believe at that mall shooting last year or the year before. CCW holder pulls his gun and the perp turns the gun on himself. Media seems to ignore that part of the story.
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portland or
last year
clackamas town center
Happened, I believe at that mall shooting last year or the year before. CCW holder pulls his gun and the perp turns the gun on himself. Media seems to ignore that part of the story.
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Another stupid question, would firearms training count against you? IE; prior military service(if extensive firearms training for MOS other than initial basic training), took defensive/offensive type gun courses(Magpul Dynamics Adaptive Courses, VATA, etc...)?
I did not take the NRA handgun course, so I don't know what goes on in that class. From what I have read and heard, it just covers the fundamentals of different style handguns. A friend of mine told me, defensive/offensive tactics are not covered. So I would guess the prosecutor painting a picture of you being this highly trained killer from taking this NRA handgun course would not hold water. But would the other dynamic courses and/or prior military school training make you look worse than that gun wielding lunatic that just went on a killing spree?
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Another stupid question, would firearms training count against you? IE; prior military service(if extensive firearms training for MOS other than initial basic training), took defensive/offensive type gun courses(Magpul Dynamics Adaptive Courses, VATA, etc...)?
I did not take the NRA handgun course, so I don't know what goes on in that class. From what I have read and heard, it just covers the fundamentals of different style handguns. A friend of mine told me, defensive/offensive tactics are not covered. So I would guess the prosecutor painting a picture of you being this highly trained killer from taking this NRA handgun course would not hold water. But would the other dynamic courses and/or prior military school training make you look worse than that gun wielding lunatic that just went on a killing spree?
The person taking a DEFENSIVE class has to keep that in mind. I've seen the Magpul vids and some "training" classes and from what I have seen, some of it is more offensive in nature. The maneuvering towards the threat is something out of FM7-8 where you are taught to lead ambushes, assault an objective. Sure they teach you gun handling skills but it is mixed in with certain maneuvering techniques that would be questionable in a court. Sure, if you are an operator these tactics would fair well, but most of us here are not in that line of work. The military offers all kinds of training depending on your MOS, skills etc. and of course the military operates differently from what an average Joe Citizen might do in the average neighborhood. If faced in court over a defensive shoot, I'd talk to an attorney first before divulging any kind of training you received.
In my observations and experience, new gun owners are empowered against nefarious individuals but they must also keep in mind what kind of legal atmosphere we are in Hawaii. I had to explain to my female friend and her new Glock that in a hypothetical situation, once the suspect runs away from your son and G19, you can't "finish" him/her off to make sure he/she doesn't come back to your house.
I didn't take an NRA class but I did take a CCW class in Tucson and what I liked about that class was the explanation of what a CCW holder can do and possible consequences in terms of the law.
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They will care more that you had a weapon than the fact that you saved a life.
I talked to my cousin in HPD about that one case in Kailua, where the guy beat his girlfriend to death with a shotgun stock. I asked what would have happened if someone near by grabbed their firearm and shot the guy, and he said that the way the system is set up, they would do all in their power to charge you with a felony.
So sad that people value anti-gun mentalities over human life.
In some of our defensive shootings, I don't think anything like this has been the case. We have seen guys stab someone to get their backpack back and not be charged with anything. There have been others who have used a firearm to stop the crime and nothing. If you go through and look at the charges or do searches on the bar associations case masker database, there really isn't all that much stuff.
Some of it I think is fluff. Could you imagine the political fallout at the prosecutors office for charging someone who shot a man beating a woman to death in the street with a shotgun? Women would flip their shit in a heartbeat!
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Another stupid question, would firearms training count against you? IE; prior military service(if extensive firearms training for MOS other than initial basic training), took defensive/offensive type gun courses(Magpul Dynamics Adaptive Courses, VATA, etc...)?
I did not take the NRA handgun course, so I don't know what goes on in that class. From what I have read and heard, it just covers the fundamentals of different style handguns. A friend of mine told me, defensive/offensive tactics are not covered. So I would guess the prosecutor painting a picture of you being this highly trained killer from taking this NRA handgun course would not hold water. But would the other dynamic courses and/or prior military school training make you look worse than that gun wielding lunatic that just went on a killing spree?
I definitely can think of ways this could come back at you. Especially someone who may have been trained in the use of force / escalating force. Then again, it can be good for you to! Maybe you don't shoot that bystander, or you are able to really articulate what / why you felt something that made you feel the need to escalate to lethal.
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Personally, I am just waiting for the next mass shooting to happen somewhere where someone is actually carrying and stops the SOB in their tracks. Maybe that will shut them stupid anti gunners up.
You mean like they shut up after the Clackamas Mall (attempted) massacre that was stopped by someone with a legal firearm? Liberals are retards.