2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: HiCarry on January 27, 2011, 02:06:24 PM
-
Another bill has emerged, HB 834, a stand alone bill restricting sales of ammunition to those that can prove registration of a firearm requiring that ammo.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/lists/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=834 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/lists/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=834)
You know what to do......
-
Damnit really ? I just want to take a break lol
-
Holy cow!
Need to rally the troops this year for sure!!
-
:o It never ends... If the idiots who propose this crap had to hire their own lawyers to fight for it, i'm sure we wouldn't be talking much about anti-gun/ammunition lawsuits.. Fortunately for them they get to use our own $$ against us.. They will keep grinding away in the hopes people will stop fighting...
-
:o It never ends... If the idiots who propose this crap had to hire their own lawyers to fight for it, i'm sure we wouldn't be talking much about anti-gun/ammunition lawsuits.. Fortunately for them they get to use our own $$ against us.. They will keep grinding away in the hopes people will stop fighting...
Exactly! If you read the wording from the bill proposed in the 2008 session, you will see the almost exact same wording of the current HB441.....
-
NRA/ILA
Out on the wire here now too
Easy to find your reps contact info.
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6157 (http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6157)
Let's stop this before it takes off.
-
I didn't want to single anyone out, so I sent my love letter to the Prez as well as all reps for Hawaii... :shaka:
-
Sent off the letters today. I'll give updates on responses. If I get them.
-
Sent off the letters today. I'll give updates on responses. If I get them.
I will as well.. And yes, I used the "Message Booster" which supposedly lends more credence to the message... LOL !! :wacko:
-
Try posting info of who you guys send letters to, we will follow up with letters from Hawaii CCW and the HDF.
-
Try posting info of who you guys send letters to, we will follow up with letters from Hawaii CCW and the HDF.
Here ya go.... I sent one letter to all of these folks..
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Sorta good =) it's a state bill, so we need to be hitting house and senate reps here. Those guys are what we target for federal.
-
Here is a list of the members of the local House of Representatives, and a list of Senators.
House for 2011
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/members/house/housemembers.aspx (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/members/house/housemembers.aspx)
Senate for 2011
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/members/senate/senatemembers.aspx (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/members/senate/senatemembers.aspx)
I live in Ewa, so I have sent letters to Rep. Kim Pine, and Sen. Wil Espero, as well as, Gov. Ambercrombie.
Espero, had replied almost immediately with an email saying, 'this is a house bill, and he'll consider my position.' (paraphrase)
-
Sorta good =) it's a state bill, so we need to be hitting house and senate reps here. Those guys are what we target for federal.
Ok, so the entire government starting with the President now knows how I feel about this bill, as I just mailed both my reps a letter (Coffman and Green) !! ;)
-
Can someone post or pm me their letter? Im not good at compiling these things. I wont copy it word for word, just need an idea of what to compile.
-
This is what I wrote. (I am be no means a scholar, and I suck at this, so take it for what it's worth. :P )
I used the NRA/ILA website to format these letters and send them to my reps. The website gives them a formal letterhead and makes them look professional.
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/state/main/?state=HI&view=myofficials (http://www.capwiz.com/nra/state/main/?state=HI&view=myofficials)
enter your info to find your state reps.
New restrictive firearm laws that have been introduced are not needed, and serve to empower criminals. These laws are another attempt to dissolve the rights of the people to keep and bear arms.
...prohibit the import, sale, and transfer of .50 BMG rifles or cartridges after July 1, 2011
The .50 caliber rifles are used for target shooting and competition. The size and weight of these rifles make it impossible to use it in any criminal situation. The people that think you can use these to shoot down airplanes and such are watching too many movies. The distances involved, moving target, and massive recoil make it nearly impossible. In a non-military role, they are only practical for target shooting and nothing more. legislation on this rifle and caliber is pointless.
...requirement that a firearm be sold with a safety device
Responsible gun owner already make sure that their firearms are secure and safe while in storage. Requirement of a firearm be sold with a Safety Device is not needed, and there is no guarantee that the user will use the device in any case. Also, many use firearms as tools of self defense, being secure but unlocked is key to having a self defense tool. This requirement will only add cost to firearms, and further deny hard working responsible citizens the ability to purchase firearms.
...proof of registration of the firearm for which any ammunition is purchased
I do not believe that the criminal element will be affected at all by this section. Criminals will not use ammunition to practice, as a will a normal citizen would. The ammo can be acquired, by criminals, from the same black market as they got the weapon. This portion is a blatant attack on the law abiding citizens right to firearm practice and use.
...mandate secure storage of firearms and ammunition by firearm dealers
This will cause more price increases for those who follow the law and acquire firearms legally. I really don't understand the need for this section at all.
...require that the theft of a firearm must be reported with 24 hours
Why is it that there is so many constant attacks of the rights of law abiding citizens?? Why would a person that is a responsible gun owner not report a gun stolen as soon as possible?
...prohibit disclosure to a firearm permit applicant of the source of information used to deny the application based on the applicant's mental disorder (not for a CCW permit, but a permit-to-purchase)
This is very disturbing, and pointless. The applicant has to sign and submit the medical providers name and address. The applicant already knows who they are.
Denial without providing cause and without appeal is going way over the line.
I am very disturbed at these new bills that have been brought out. These bills serve as a great disservice to the people of Hawaii. Hawaii's Firearm Laws are already overly restrictive. Studies have shown over and over again, that restrictive gun laws only serve to oppress decent law abiding citizens. Furthermore, these laws have little to no effect on criminals and their ability to acquire illegal weapons. A quick look at the news and recent events show that violent crime is on the rise; criminals have no regard for the law, thus they will be exempt. New restrictive laws will give the criminals an even larger upper hand. Give the decent, hardworking, law abiding people a chance to defend themselves.
Please oppose and stop these restrictive measures.
(HB441)http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/lists/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=441
(HB834)http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/lists/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=834
-
WOOOWWW !!! Heavies has the definite professional looking letter !! Mine is just what I could think up while trying to think :wacko: LOL
Here it is....
Hi Denny,
I live in Kailua-Kona as a full time resident. I am just letting you know that I am against this bill, as I believe it does absolutely nothing for our safety. It makes no sense to exclude this particular weapon, nor does it make any sense to force people to provide proof of having a weapon registered for the ammunition they are purchasing.. Does the gas station ask for your driver’s license before you put gas in your car ? Does the bartender make you pass a sobriety test before you leave the bar to drive away ? We had 28 people die in vehicle crashes on our island in 2010, 16 were DUI related. We had 2 Murders in 2008 involving firearms. When looking at these facts, where should we be focusing our time and energy ? This is nothing more than another attempt at chipping away our rights just because someone is afraid of guns or thinks they are evil.. It’s not the guns that hurt people, it’s the people that use them wrong or illegally, just the same as it’s not the car’s fault, but the drunk or unlicensed driver who is operating it.. It boils down to education and personal responsibility.. Let’s use our resources to educate instead of intimidate or take away rights.. As for crime, it will always be here, and no matter how hard you make it for us law abiding citizens to get a gun or ammo, the people who commit the crimes will be the least affected, if at all, as they rarely use legal means to commit illegal acts.
-
Ill probably start working on a letter here in a little bit; just took a day off to relax.
-
Does the gas station ask for your driver’s license before you put gas in your car ?
Haha, we think alike! That was one of the first things that popped in my head. With all the car deaths, stolen vehicles, and high speed chases, why don't they require something as rediculous as a valid registration and ID to pump gas. Perfect way to point out why these bills are a waste of time. Hehe
Your letter is very informative and has many well made points. I'm sure it will be carefully considered.
I just hope our responses keeps these bills off the floor.
-
Does the gas station ask for your driver’s license before you put gas in your car ?
Haha, we think alike! That was one of the first things that popped in my head. With all the car deaths, stolen vehicles, and high speed chases, why don't they require something as rediculous as a valid registration and ID to pump gas. Perfect way to point out why these bills are a waste of time. Hehe
Your letter is very informative and has many well made points. I'm sure it will be carefully considered.
I just hope our responses keeps these bills off the floor.
LOL !! Thanks man :shaka: Yeah, I hope with all of our letters we trigger something in their thought process..
-
Working on my letter right now.
I am not sure how people usually do this, length, style etc. I will have to seek professional opinions on that one.
-
Working on my letter right now.
I am not sure how people usually do this, length, style etc. I will have to seek professional opinions on that one.
I just try to use plain old common sense and facts to show and compare where the actual problems are in our society.. Something our government is really lacking these days... ;)
-
My draft:
We are writing to express to you our opposition of the newly introduced House Bill #441. This bill strives to expand government regulation of firearms and ammunition, not for criminals, but for law-abiding citizens.
The presented statistics don’t fall well within the realm of “common senseâ€, a term used commonly by corporations like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence when referring to gun control. The statistics suggest that a decrease of firearm ownership has existed for over two decades. We disagree. Firearms, by design, are made to last for generations. In fact, have actively used firearms have a lifespan exceeding fifty years. Overall, firearm exports and production have increased fairly consistently for multiple decades. This leads us to question, if more guns are being manufactured, and more guns are being purchased, how does common sense rationalize that firearm ownership is declining?
While it may be true, at least from a social aspect, that firearms have become somewhat unacceptable, that doesn’t equate to a drastic reduction of households that contain firearms. The exact opposite may in fact be true. Due to the negative stigma attached to firearms, people are inherently less likely to report or disclose their firearm ownership. In 2006, firearm production data recorded by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), past Gallup polls, and surveys by the Department of Justice showed that an estimated 40-44% of households may possess firearms. This is contrary to the proposed thirty-six percent quoted by Mr. Oshiro. Statistical inconsistencies are certainly a grave concern with this proposed legislation; you are being misguided.
There is no doubt to any person or party that the current economy is in severe distress. This strain and tension is not present in Hawaii alone, but is present throughout the nation as a whole. During the course of the 2011 State of the Union address, President Obama encouraged law makers to help remove red tape and regulations that burden small business owners. It is clear much of this red tape is prohibiting our entrepreneurs from developing and furthering their dreams -- the American dream, a successful and thriving business. We ask that you not increase the red tape. Our local dealers work very hard to do the right thing. They do not need an increased burden placed on them. Do not vote for House Bill #441.
House Bill #441 calls for the legislature to enact restrictions on the sale of ammunition. It requires that all firearms be sold with safety devices. It also requires that small business owners follow additional rules and regulations set forth by the Attorney General. These laws and regulations are unknown to anyone at this time. How would one vote for a bill that proposes undocumented regulations? That would simply be irresponsible. Additionally, House Bill #441 calls for the banning of the .50BMG rifle and ammunition for reasons which are at this time undisclosed. Also, increased restrictions on the storage of firearms within the home are proposed. There is nothing proposed here that will deter criminals. New regulations will only infringe on law-abiding citizens.
I. SAFETY DEVICE REQUIRED
House Bill #441 proposes that the law requires, “All firearms sold in this state by a dealer licensed under section 134-31 and all firearms manufactured in this State shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device.†Unless that person 1.) owns a gun safe; and the purchaser presents an original receipt for purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe, to the dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of purchase with the dealer’s record of sales of firearms. This law will require more oversight and expenditure by the government. It is not in our fiscal interest to further increase expenditures while a huge deficit looms above us.
This increased record keeping also comes at the expense of the law-abiding dealers. Requiring them to keep additional documents demands additional storage, which in turn requires additional space, something which comes at a premium here on the islands. Additionally, there are no storage duration requirements set forth in the bill. A licensed dealer would not even know when they could clear out of some of this excess material. Lastly, firearms are already designed with multiple “safety†devices (i.e., Slide lock, trigger safety, grip safety, firing pin blocks). These safety systems are already incorporated into the design of most modern firearms. This section of House Bill #441 is nothing more than an encroachment on free commerce. Vehicles are one of the largest causes of human death; just as the government can’t require a “safety†device prohibiting its use, nor can the government force its citizens to purchase safety devices for firearms. Citizens have the right to choose whether or not they want, or even require a safety device. As such, that decision is the sole choice of the firearm owner – not yours. There is no significant government interest in dictating to its citizens that they purchase safety devices.
II. AMMUNITION PURCHASE
House Bill #441 proposes to modify the law to require that ammunition purchases require proof of a registered firearm, specifically in that caliber, prior to purchase. This section of proposed legislation is heavily flawed.
First and foremost, the personal information on the registrations is prohibited from disclosure.
HRS §134-3(b) All registration data that would identify the individual registering the firearm by name or address shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed to anyone, except as may be required for processing the registration or as may be required by a law enforcement agency for the lawful performance of its duties or as may be required by order of a court.
Second, citizens are allowed to lend their rifles or shotguns to others.
HRS §134-4(c) Any lawfully acquired rifle or shotgun may be lent to an adult for use within the State for a period not to exceed fifteen days without a permit; provided that where the rifle or shotgun is to be used outside of the State, the loan may be for a period not to exceed seventy-five days.
In fact, restricting citizens from purchasing ammunition essentially voids us from lending our rifles in accordance with the statute. There are many tourist who make trips to Hawaii and come to hunt and fish. This proposal burdens the hunting industry.
Additionally, firearm instructors and training organizations, such as the Hawaii Defense Foundation, Lessons in Firearm Education, and the Hawaii Rifle Association’s education programs commonly purchase and utilize ammunition for a wide variety of firearms, many of which they do not own personally. Sport shooters also frequently purchase ammunition for their friends’ and family’s firearms. Firearm owners, especially those who are active in training, will many times have an various barrels, which can change the caliber for their firearm; these barrels allow the owner to train effectively and also reduce costs of higher caliber ammunition. Restrictions such as those proposed in House Bill #441 are certain to infringe upon the Second Amendment. As such, the rights to purchase ammunition and to properly train with our firearms are constitutionally protected.
If we were trying to legislate criminals out of ammunition there are a few points to review. First, ammunition is readily available, not just in Hawaii, but everywhere. Even if this law did prevent criminals from purchasing ammunition, it won’t stop them from committing burglary, theft, or from stealing our legally purchased ammunition. The criminals are already prohibited from buying firearms; however, our laws don’t seem to stop them from acquiring or using them. Second, ammunition is easily created. Many residents reload or ship ammunition in from the mainland. Finally, for a person visiting the island for less than three days, they are not required to have a permit. The government is forbidden from denying the right to self-defense. We hope that you will not endeavor on a course to burden our civil rights.
III. DISCLOSURE AND STORAGE
The proposed legislation attempts to make disclosure of the source of information which caused a denial of a permit prohibited. This is a blatant violation of the due process guaranteed by the United State constitution. If the government denies a person the ability to protect themselves with a firearm, the burden is on the state to disclose why. Attempting to hide and prohibit disclosure will not stand to constitutional muster. Additionally, it has no true utility whatsoever. If a person signed a waiver, informing the state of the location where his or her records were, and was then denied for a “mental health†reason, logic would dictate that the person could reasonably identify who the “source†was, since they gave it to the police in the first place.
In regards to the change in storage requirements, as proposed for HRS §134-10.5, we would like to inform you that storage requirements have already been ruled on by the United States Supreme Court, and are forbidden by federal case law (District of Columbia v. Heller; 128 S.Ct. 2783, 2008). In Heller, legislation that required firearms to be bound by trigger locks within the home was determined to violate the core of the Second Amendment – the right to self-defense. Anything that restricts or prohibits the immediate utilization of a firearm, at a minimum inside the home, is a violation of the Second Amendment, and will fail to pass legal scrutiny. Don’t take our word for it; ask for an opinion from your Attorney General, that is part of his legal duty to you.
In closing, we hope that you carefully and thoughtfully review this document and House Bill #441; it is also important that you review the United States Constitution and current Second Amendment jurisprudence. Failure to do so could be a costly measure for both firearm owners and tax-payers. Please refrain from infringing on the law-abiding citizens of Hawaii. We do not wish to be infringed upon further. These laws will not stop criminals; it will only hurt legal firearm owners. While Mr. Oshiro states that you “have worked to provide law enforcement with the necessary tools to prevent gun-related fatalities in Hawaii and will continue to do so in the future,†we ask you, “When will you provide us with the tools to protect ourselves from the criminals who plague our island?†Help us protect our families. Please vote “NO†for House Bill #441.
-
WOW !!!! Great letter man.. It's hard to argue with the facts, and you did a great job presenting them !!! :thumbsup:
-
nice, how are you addressing the recipient? Mr./Mrs. (Name) or Congressman/Senator with or without name?
-
nice, how are you addressing the recipient? Mr./Mrs. (Name) or Congressman/Senator with or without name?
"Hey Jackass:"
lol
It will go to their respective name in that format you mentioned.
-
nice, how are you addressing the recipient? Mr./Mrs. (Name) or Congressman/Senator with or without name?
"Hey Jackass:"
lol
It will go to their respective name in that format you mentioned.
LMAO !!!!! :rofl:
-
Should be able to paste this into a address block for an e-mail and hit every representative in the state.
repjohanson@capitol.hawaii.gov; repmckelvey@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repmarumoto@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repboshiro@capitol.hawaii.gov; repsay@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repclee@capitol.hawaii.gov; repevans@Capitol.hawaii.gov; reptsuji@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repching@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repthielen@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repmorikawa@capitol.hawaii.gov; repbelatti@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repcoffman@capitol.hawaii.gov; rephanohano@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repward@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repfontaine@capitol.hawaii.gov; repriviere@capitol.hawaii.gov; repkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov; repaquino@capitol.hawaii.gov; repmorita@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repchoy@capitol.hawaii.gov; reptokioka@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repchang@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repwooley@capitol.hawaii.gov; repjordan@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repmanahan@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repmizuno@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repsouki@Capitol.hawaii.gov; reptakai@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repawana@Capitol.hawaii.gov; reprhoads@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repito@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repyamashita@Capitol.hawaii.gov; reppine@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repichiyama@capitol.hawaii.gov; repmoshiro@Capitol.hawaii.gov; replee@Capitol.hawaii.gov; rephashem@capitol.hawaii.gov; repnakashima@capitol.hawaii.gov; repcarroll@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repchong@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repcabanilla@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repherkes@Capitol.hawaii.gov; reptakumi@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repyamane@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repnishimoto@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repsaiki@Capitol.hawaii.gov; rephar@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repluke@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repbrower@Capitol.hawaii.gov; repcullen@capitol.hawaii.gov;
-
Not to rain on you, but, try to keep letter/testimony to one page.
As I've been told, "they" do Not Read it all.
Keep it Short and to the point.
I think all they want to know is Yes or No and you are a Registered Voter who did vote in the last election.
-
Not to rain on you, but, try to keep letter/testimony to one page.
As I've been told, "they" do Not Read it all.
Keep it Short and to the point.
I think all they want to know is Yes or No and you are a Registered Voter who did vote in the last election.
This stuff isn't testimony, but more of a warning that they will be breaking the law. My testimony will be less then 700 words.
-
when do these bills get voted on? The car stereo bill made news and was deferred within a day or so of it being brought to the public's attention.
-
The media, which is highly biased, anti gun, and self defense, will no doubt suppress the reporting of these bills as long as possible. That's why we must be the ones that spread the word to as many ears as possible.
The state media probably won't report on this until it is very far along in the process, thereby, making it much harder to quash the efforts.