2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ren on October 28, 2013, 06:19:35 PM

Title: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on October 28, 2013, 06:19:35 PM
just got a forwarded email from HHAA that a bullet was found in the Queen's Gate subdiv, which is left of Sandy Beach and will be brought by Greg Knudsen to the neighborhood board meeting tomorrow night 7pm at Hahaione Elem. School.
This is the same Greg that has brought another bullet found on the Kokohead trail.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Kingkeoni on October 28, 2013, 06:39:15 PM
Wow, he's a very good bullet finder.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: sliver on October 28, 2013, 07:05:24 PM
seems like this guy is the one dropping the bullets and finding them to find some kinda weird glory/popularity for doing so.  sorta like the guy which calls the fire department after he sets the fires... 


WHAT A FREAK!!!
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 28, 2013, 07:10:33 PM
was this the same guy that showed the unspent round and said that it was fired from the range?

just got a forwarded email from HHAA that a bullet was found in the Queen's Gate subdiv, which is left of Sandy Beach and will be brought by Greg Knudsen to the neighborhood board meeting tomorrow night 7pm at Hahaione Elem. School.
This is the same Greg that has brought another bullet found on the Kokohead trail.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on October 28, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
was this the same guy that showed the unspent round and said that it was fired from the range?
That was the same guy that showed up at the rec center to discuss the Kokohead range improvements last year. Ed Masaki called him a liar in his face. He showed a bullet with no engravings
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Kingkeoni on October 28, 2013, 07:28:33 PM
That was the same guy that showed up at the rec center to discuss the Kokohead range improvements last year. Ed Masaki called him a liar in his face. He showed a bullet with no engravings rifling marks.

I remember this idiot
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Heavies on October 28, 2013, 07:30:07 PM
Lolz
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on October 28, 2013, 07:34:01 PM
Forgot to add that he is president of the Hawaii Kai neighborhood board.
Here are sonme minutes: http://www1.honolulu.gov/refs/nco/nb1/12/1maymin.htm (http://www1.honolulu.gov/refs/nco/nb1/12/1maymin.htm)
apprently he also found one in his backyard.
obviously this clown hates the range
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on October 28, 2013, 07:47:21 PM
From the Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board Meeting Minutes in May:

Quote
Stray Bullet – A bullet, perhaps from the Koko Head Shooting Complex, struck a vehicle near Sandy Beach today. HPD is investigating the incident.

To my knowledge, there was never confirmation in the news this was in fact a bullet, nor whether any "investigation" was begun or concluded.

This smacks of the "smear news story," where all people hear is the unsubstantiated accusations, but never hear of or read the retraction.  The damage is done even without facts or the truth.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Heavies on October 28, 2013, 07:52:30 PM
Com'on HK. Get this lying sob off your neighborhood board.....
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: SpeedTek on October 28, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Hpd was at khsc at 330 yesterday investigating.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on October 28, 2013, 07:58:12 PM
Hpd was at khsc at 330 yesterday investigating.

Let me guess.  "Anybody see somebody shoot way up in the air?"

I feel so much safer ...
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 28, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
i bet you this time, he gets one with rifling marks, but lacks impact marks and has ballistic gelatin residue on it
someone please go to this meeting and call this mofo out

I remember this idiot
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on October 28, 2013, 08:01:39 PM
i bet you this time, he gets one with rifling marks, but lacks impact marks and has ballistic gelatin residue on it
someone please go to this meeting and call this mofo out

Ask him if he has video of one of these magic bullets in flight.

If he's so good he can locate all these stray bullets, then finding video should be a piece of cake!!  Tons of cameras in use around Hawaii Kai   :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: OldFaithful on October 28, 2013, 08:02:53 PM
Was it a bullet head or full on cartridge?  Hopefully someone can inspect it seeing if there's any rifling marks or deformities from hitting something.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 28, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
dude is like the bullet whisperer or something

or maybe one of those pigs that can find truffles

Ask him if he has video of one of these magic bullets in flight.

If he's so good he can locate all these stray bullets, then finding video should be a piece of cake!!  Tons of cameras in use around Hawaii Kai   :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on October 28, 2013, 08:14:41 PM
dude is like the bullet whisperer or something

or maybe one of those pigs that can find truffles

Maybe in his spare time he combs the parking lots and beach areas with his Treasure Finder metal detector?    :rofl:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Antithesis on October 28, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
This guy sounds like such a fraud. 
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on October 28, 2013, 09:37:39 PM
Was it a bullet head or full on cartridge?  Hopefully someone can inspect it seeing if there's any rifling marks or deformities from hitting something.
it was a bullet with no rifling marks.
The problem with boards like other legislative bodies is the caliber and commitment of its members. I am just on the association board. We don't get paid at all, but we must make decisions for 95% of the owners of the association. We have quite a few vacancies. Why? Does anybody make the time to decide on matters? Or care?
I did it because I was at a meeting to find out why dues went up and they needed bodies - everyone else took a step back and I was in front. How many of us really want to take the time and effort to organize a neighborhood board? Here complaints. Sit in long meetings. Only the few with idle time or give a damn about things. So Greg obviously has an itch for the range and he is scratching with whatever rocks he can find.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: hnl.flyboy on October 28, 2013, 09:39:28 PM
This is most definitely not something I would do....

But how bad do you think he'd freak if someone bought 500 bullets and tossed them into his yard and/or driveway in the middle of the night?  ;D
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 28, 2013, 09:49:19 PM
that would be too obvious, and would attract attention
if, however, a random group of people would pass by at random times of the day/week and modes of transportation and left a bullet one at a time however...

This is most definitely not something I would do....

But how bad do you think he'd freak if someone bought 500 bullets and tossed them into his yard and/or driveway in the middle of the night?  ;D
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 28, 2013, 09:52:23 PM
and that is a behavior which i would not condone...

that would be too obvious, and would attract attention
if, however, a random group of people would pass by at random times of the day/week and modes of transportation and left a bullet one at a time however...
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: hnl.flyboy on October 28, 2013, 10:44:48 PM
that would be too obvious, and would attract attention
if, however, a random group of people would pass by at random times of the day/week and modes of transportation and left a bullet one at a time however...

and that is a behavior which i would not condone...


Oh, of course not!  Neither would I!  ;)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Heavies on October 29, 2013, 03:25:59 AM
Oh, of course not!  Neither would I!  ;)
Nah, he prob call the police and file a terroristic threatening complaint...  That's how these types roll.

it was a bullet with no rifling marks.
The problem with boards like other legislative bodies is the caliber and commitment of its members. I am just on the association board. We don't get paid at all, but we must make decisions for 95% of the owners of the association. We have quite a few vacancies. Why? Does anybody make the time to decide on matters? Or care?
I did it because I was at a meeting to find out why dues went up and they needed bodies - everyone else took a step back and I was in front. How many of us really want to take the time and effort to organize a neighborhood board? Here complaints. Sit in long meetings. Only the few with idle time or give a damn about things. So Greg obviously has an itch for the range and he is scratching with whatever rocks he can find.

When called on the unfired bullet, did any one ask if he was charged with filing a false police report? ???  I believe that it is a crime?
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Heavies on October 29, 2013, 03:38:11 AM
Hopefully some of us can go to this meeting and check his oil on this...
Title: .
Post by: Q on October 29, 2013, 03:50:30 AM
.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: splice21 on October 29, 2013, 10:32:11 AM
This is most definitely not something I would do....

But how bad do you think he'd freak if someone bought 500 bullets and tossed them into his yard and/or driveway in the middle of the night?  ;D

He'll most likley have 500 more incidents of finding bullets in his yard.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2013, 11:02:57 AM
he has no burden of proof
it's whatever he says to the media, goes
and he is not responsible for following up either
whatever fits his agenda

When is this meeting?

I believe the thing to do is call this guy on the fact that unless he has a detailed video of the bullet falling from they sky and landing at his feet with at least several witnesses to verify, its all circumstantial BS. He would need to prove, without reasonable doubt, that this bullet actually came from the range, which would mean HPD would need to match the ballistics to a specific firearm.

The range is open for scavengers after hours, so whats to say he didn't just head to the range one day and pick up a deformed round from the back stop?
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: BUD on October 29, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
When all is said and done, if he is proven to be a liar, then call the same news station that he did to report and see what they do.  Fight fire with fire.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2013, 12:00:19 PM
they will likely not do anything unless it fits their agenda

When all is said and done, if he is proven to be a liar, then call the same news station that he did to report and see what they do.  Fight fire with fire.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: aieahound on October 29, 2013, 12:25:35 PM
That was the same guy that showed up at the rec center to discuss the Kokohead range improvements last year. Ed Masaki called him a liar in his face. He showed a bullet with no engravings ( rifling marks )

Good for Ed !  :thumbsup:
Ed's a badass !

Tell them to legalize fireworks so the knuckleheads in Hawaii Kai don't feel the need to fire their guns into the air at New Years and on the 4th of July.
No way to know it was from the range.

Or we could blame Q for shooting it over the mountain from Waimanalo.  :rofl: :rofl:
Title: .
Post by: Q on October 29, 2013, 12:37:33 PM
.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: kevlar on October 29, 2013, 12:52:46 PM
Great. Another mainland liberal asshole comes to Hawaii to mix with the local liberal assholes and then the combined liberal assholes do what the vast majority of liberal assholes do - bitch and moan about the 2A.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on October 29, 2013, 02:13:41 PM
From Greg's YouTube channel.... 'nuff said!

Kitty Won't Stop Licking My Face! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE#ws)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: hnl.flyboy on October 29, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
From Greg's YouTube channel.... 'nuff said!

Kitty Won't Stop Licking My Face! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE#ws)

 :wtf: is this shet??
Title: .
Post by: Q on October 29, 2013, 03:51:37 PM
.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: hnl.flyboy on October 29, 2013, 04:10:03 PM
This, my friend, is the future of America.  :thumbsup:

 :'(
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on October 29, 2013, 05:54:40 PM
He probably feeds cats all over the island on Fri and Sat nights.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on October 29, 2013, 06:01:55 PM
Here's something to get that bad taste out of your mouth after watching Greg making out with his cat.
Incredible hot Lesbians tongueSuckingKissing Licking ♥♥♥ Kiss YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1IFDIYqp6I#ws)
Title: .
Post by: Q on October 29, 2013, 07:11:59 PM
.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: 230RN on October 30, 2013, 09:39:49 AM
Great. Another mainland liberal asshole comes to Hawaii to mix with the local liberal assholes and then the combined liberal assholes do what the vast majority of liberal assholes do - bitch and moan about the 2A.

I laughed.

I shouldn't have.

But I did.

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Kingkeoni on October 31, 2013, 05:47:55 AM
Here's something to get that bad taste out of your mouth after watching Greg making out with his cat.
Incredible hot Lesbians tongueSuckingKissing Licking ♥♥♥ Kiss YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1IFDIYqp6I#ws)

I'm liking the one in the white.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: .
Post by: Q on October 31, 2013, 08:07:57 PM
.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Sturmgeschutz on November 01, 2013, 09:04:03 PM
From Greg's YouTube channel.... 'nuff said!

Kitty Won't Stop Licking My Face! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE#ws)


I wonder what he would do with a tube of anchovy paste?
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Flinter on November 01, 2013, 09:43:40 PM
On Sunday morning Oct. 27 at approximately 9:30 am a bullet was reported to have gone through the kitchen window of a residence in Queen’s Gate. The incident was discussed at the Tuesday night Oct 29 Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board meeting.  The home owner presented the details in a very polite and open-minded manner.  He did not make any accusation that the bullet had come from the Koko Head Range, but expressed a definite concern as to safety  if the bullet had come from the range. Board member Greg Knudsen went on a tangent about how nothing is done to make the range safer. Board member Paige Altonn cautioned not to blame the range without proof. She was rudely interrupted by Knudsen.

Via a photo,  the bullet appeared to be a .308 FMJBT but can't say for sure. A report to the police was made. Word is police did come by the range late  Sunday afternoon to investigate. Details maybe forth coming.

The Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board postponed any more discussion on the matter until their next monthly meeting when more information becomes available.  Overall, it was thought that the Board handled the matter quite well at this point without any prejudice.  There were no anti-gun comments made.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: dirtylickins on November 02, 2013, 04:21:30 PM
I just broke down and decided to watch the kitty video. All I can say is  :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: is that who we are battling... all we need to do is show that video at the board meeting and state " this is the idiot you guys are listening too? Once again  :wtf: here let me play this video for you again! Shamefull just shameful :wacko: ps god can you please refund me those 2odd minutes of my wasted life watching that. Scratch that the 10 seconds before I punked in my mouth went to the lesbo vid.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: K30l4 on November 02, 2013, 05:54:42 PM
OMG! I also broke down to watch that video. Twice. That was so adorable how the cat was licking his face. I love kitty cats.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: SpeedTek on November 02, 2013, 05:56:57 PM
Wheres a pic of the damn bullet?
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: BUD on November 02, 2013, 06:02:41 PM
Wheres a pic of the damn bullet?
They showed it in the original news story.  Looked in pretty good shape to me. 
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: dirtylickins on November 02, 2013, 08:36:23 PM
OMG! I also broke down to watch that video. Twice. That was so adorable how the cat was licking his face. I love kitty cats.
keola I just made a bunch of match .22 ammo... here kitty
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: SpeedTek on November 02, 2013, 10:39:06 PM
His twit feed:

https://twitter.com/gerGnesdunK
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: kevlar on November 02, 2013, 11:15:36 PM
This clown is the epitome of the stereotypical liberal moron. According to his Twitter feed, he thinks those in favor of traditional marriage are 'bigots'.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on November 03, 2013, 11:43:06 AM
This should be posted on the wall at the next Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board meeting:

Quote
Greg Knudsen ‏@gerGnesdunK 15h

I'm FOR #SB1. Nothing against ignorant holy-roller bigots.
Evidently, some of my best friends & neighbors are ignorant holy-roller bigots.

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/Doug_Moose/ScreenShot2013-11-03at114849AM_zps077e7fe9.png) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/Doug_Moose/media/ScreenShot2013-11-03at114849AM_zps077e7fe9.png.html)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: peregrine on November 03, 2013, 06:43:18 PM
From Greg's YouTube channel.... 'nuff said!

Kitty Won't Stop Licking My Face! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE#ws)

WTF that guy is a nut job. That is disturbing, I wonder what he does before he cuddles up with the cat. ?
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Heavies on November 04, 2013, 03:10:14 AM
From an email received...

Mike Muramoto, the Manager of Range Operations for the City and County has
notified all users of the range that targets will "no longer" be placed
beyond the 100 yard line. I don't know if that includes shooting at any
objects on the ground beyond 100 yards, like at 200 yards and beyond.

I have no answers as to "why".  You can ask Mike when you see him at the
range. This might be a result of a "recent claim" that a bullet hit a house
on the other side of the mountain.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: stangzilla on November 04, 2013, 07:39:39 AM
I dont really shoot rifle side that often
but it still pisses me off that we have to change the rules for some crybaby complainer
is there any proof that this bullet came from kokohead?
it doesn't make any logical sense to not shoot over 100 yds.
at longer range, the targets aren't up in the sky, they're still on the ground.

now that there's been a precedent set,
all we need is another complaint and we change the range rules again.
and one day we wont even be able to shoot a red rider BB gun there.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Rocky on November 04, 2013, 10:24:35 AM
Minutes of Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board No. 1
DRAFT REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
TUESDAY, MAY 29, 2012
HAHAIONE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CAFETERIA.

Include.......

NEW BUSINESS

Discussion/Action relating to the Safety of Koko Head Shooting Range and Bullets Recently Found on Rooftops of Homes on Ahukini Street and in Kalama Valley.

Bullets Falling in Residential Areas – Knudsen reported that he found a bullet on the hill behind his house in March 2012, and that residents on Ahukini Street found bullets in their roofs in 2009. Knudsen added that in 2010 a bullet flew past him while he was hiking on Koko Crater’s ridge, and he expressed that the bullet needed to land somewhere in Kalama Valley. He noted other incidents of bullets having landed at Hanauma Bay and Lanai lookout, and in 2002 a bullet was recorded to have struck a house in Kalama Valley.

·         Point of Order – Knudsen was asked to relinquish the chairmanship before participating in the discussion.

" Sheldon Tyau noted that the incident in which a 50-caliber round was found in 2003 resulted in the stopping of the use of that caliber at the range."

The round at Hanauma Bay was found approximately 10 years ago, but more recently three rounds have been found in Hawaii Kai, one of which was found behind Greg Knudsen’s house. It was noted that it is unknown how long the bullet had been there. A local gunsmith noted that the bullet found on Knudsen’s property lacked the damage normally found on fired bullets, and also appeared very old (possibly dating back to the Second World War).  :wtf:

Range Safety – Jeffrey Wong noted that the range safety is not of concern, and that more information is required before making a decision as to whether more safety improvements are necessary. He went on to say that the bullets which were found at Hanauma Bay were not fired but were merely dropped and the round recently found embedded in a Hawaii Kai roof was a military round which is no longer legal to fire.

 for full report see
http://www1.honolulu.gov/refs/nco/nb1/12/1maymin.htm (http://www1.honolulu.gov/refs/nco/nb1/12/1maymin.htm)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: robtmc on November 04, 2013, 10:42:33 AM
No doubts at all who this bastard voted for:

This should be posted on the wall at the next Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board meeting:

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/Doug_Moose/ScreenShot2013-11-03at114849AM_zps077e7fe9.png) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/Doug_Moose/media/ScreenShot2013-11-03at114849AM_zps077e7fe9.png.html)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Gordyf on November 04, 2013, 07:15:52 PM
For crying out loud!
A couple years ago I found a .45 bullet smushed into the parking lot at about 45 degrees right outside my office door in Kalihi Kai, Pier 41. " bout a block from OGC.
Musta come from the range. Some range.?
Seriously we need to start a campaign to reign in this guy
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Rocky on November 05, 2013, 08:20:45 AM
When I dove out around the Polynesian Cultural Center, I found (and still have) an unfired .44 Cal HP about 200 yards off shore.
Those Range Guys really need to keep track of their ammo. :crazy:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: 230RN on November 05, 2013, 10:50:38 AM


Once again I repeat my own adage:

Accusations are cheap.  Defense is expensive.

Gee whiz, all anyone has to do is pick up a bullet from somewhere (or buy a box of reloading bullets), bring it home, and claim you found it on your property.  You don't even have to "blame" somebody, just let peop[e draw their own erroneous conclusions and the psychological damage is done. 

Accusations are cheap.  Defense is expensive.

Terry
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Rocky on November 05, 2013, 12:44:38 PM

"Accusations are cheap.  Defense is expensive."

Terry

With the price of ammo, it's too  bad we can't defend ourselves with accusations !   :crazy:
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Gordyf on November 06, 2013, 06:56:19 PM
Next meeting 11/26 @1900 Hahaione School.
Perhaps our community should be represented.
Herb Schriener is the Parks and Recreation guy. He helped us out before, headed off an ambush.
Maybe one of our more eloquent can get on the agenda and defend us.
Might be worth the effort.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Mr. Farknocker on November 20, 2013, 11:56:01 AM
From an email received...

Mike Muramoto, the Manager of Range Operations for the City and County has
notified all users of the range that targets will "no longer" be placed
beyond the 100 yard line. I don't know if that includes shooting at any
objects on the ground beyond 100 yards, like at 200 yards and beyond.

I have no answers as to "why".  You can ask Mike when you see him at the
range. This might be a result of a "recent claim" that a bullet hit a house
on the other side of the mountain.

Perhaps our local firearms organizations have undertaken efforts to get to the bottom of this so-called richocet bullet  but it doesn't seem apparent. One would think that our firearms community would make incessant demands upon the persons having custody of the offending projectile to produce and submit the same for forensic analysis  to determine whether the projectile originated from the range or elsewhere. Based on the projectile found it should not be difficult to determine the circumstances in which the projectile could reach the location in which it was found as well as the type of damage inflicted.  This is commonly done in courts across America in both criminal and civil cases. The results could rule out claims that the bullets are ricocheting off of targets from the range and justify removing the 100-yard range limitation.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: jimsaloha on November 20, 2013, 12:52:08 PM
 :wtf:Now the range has limited shooting to 100yds only!
Please come to the Board Meeting at Hahaione school, 7PM the 26th of November.
Jim
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Gordyf on November 21, 2013, 09:17:48 AM
Perhaps our local firearms organizations have undertaken efforts to get to the bottom of this so-called richocet bullet  but it doesn't seem apparent. One would think that our firearms community would make incessant demands upon the persons having custody of the offending projectile to produce and submit the same for forensic analysis  to determine whether the projectile originated from the range or elsewhere. Based on the projectile found it should not be difficult to determine the circumstances in which the projectile could reach the location in which it was found as well as the type of damage inflicted.  This is commonly done in courts across America in both criminal and civil cases. The results could rule out claims that the bullets are ricocheting off of targets from the range and justify removing the 100-yard range limitation.
I agree that our community being the accused has a right to examine the offending projectile.
I fear however that the chain of custody may be corrupt. Who knows what we will be looking at.
What may have been substituted as Mr Knudsen's agenda is clear an to what length will he go to support it?
He has no credibility.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: jimsaloha on November 21, 2013, 07:55:24 PM
 >:(All the steel has been taken down at the Koko Head Rifle Range! 
In my mind, this was done to make it harder to get the old range back.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: causa mortis on November 21, 2013, 08:04:51 PM
This sucks!
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on November 21, 2013, 08:23:51 PM
Next thing to be found is an arrow, then he will blame the archery range. Then a Frisbee - and blame it at Kapiolani Park.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: causa mortis on November 21, 2013, 08:26:57 PM
If they're worried about ricochets, then why ban paper targets after 100 yards? It's not like your wood frame will cause a 5.56 round to go astray.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Heavies on November 22, 2013, 07:20:15 AM
Playing devils advocate.  Perhaps it is true, that a projectile made it all the way over there somehow from the range.  They are keeping hush hush, so that the anti's don't completely shut down kokohead.  Some times making tooo much noise might be the wrong thing to do.   Just a theory......anyone in the know???
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Mr. Farknocker on November 22, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
Let people set up wooden target frames at the 200 and 300 yard mark with a call to repair those targets at that distances every hour. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: robtmc on November 22, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
Been wanting to do this for a while.  Was curious what the elevation profile was from the range to Queens Gate so I did the path profile in Google Earth. 

Tried to use my ballistics program to see what sort of elevation would be cranked in to shoot 1.5 miles, but it will not go out that far.  To shoot 1500 yards has a mid point peak trajectory of about 10 feet.  Wanted to see what a barrel elevation of near 45° would do.

The profile scale is a bit distorted, but it roughly calculated out that you would need to shoot at something over 20° elevation to clear the peak.  Not very likely, and as I have said before, a ricochet is piss-por ballisticly and unlikely to make it very far.

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac148/robtmc/KokoCrater_QueensGate_zps32407b0a.jpg) (http://s894.photobucket.com/user/robtmc/media/KokoCrater_QueensGate_zps32407b0a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: ren on November 22, 2013, 01:36:38 PM
Been wanting to do this for a while.  Was curious what the elevation profile was from the range to Queens Gate so I did the path profile in Google Earth. 

Tried to use my ballistics program to see what sort of elevation would be cranked in to shoot 1.5 miles, but it will not go out that far.  To shoot 1500 yards has a mid point peak trajectory of about 10 feet.  Wanted to see what a barrel elevation of near 45° would do.

The profile scale is a bit distorted, but it roughly calculated out that you would need to shoot at something over 20° elevation to clear the peak.  Not very likely, and as I have said before, a ricochet is piss-por ballisticly and unlikely to make it very far.

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac148/robtmc/KokoCrater_QueensGate_zps32407b0a.jpg) (http://s894.photobucket.com/user/robtmc/media/KokoCrater_QueensGate_zps32407b0a.jpg.html)
The people that want the range shut down care less about what is possible. They just want it shut down (Greg Knudsen)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Gordyf on November 22, 2013, 07:30:23 PM
Good stuff Robtmc!
It is visuals like this that need to be presented at the board meeting. What is being claimed is pretty near physically impossible, especially with a ricochet damaged projectile
Yes they clearly have an agenda, or at least Knudsen does, but we have to be smarter them. Where does Hizoner Da Mayor fit in on this? He has helped us before, but I have little faith.

That having been said, maybe the time is right to push for a real, modern shooting complex someplace else. Central Oahu? perhaps, and maybe we can enlist the Hawaii Kai Board and
their constiuency to support it. The well heeled East Oahu community is if nothing else politically connected. I know I could get behind closing the range at Kokohead IF IF IF, and ONLY
 IF,a realistic alternative is put in place. Something like what has been proposed for Puuanahulu on the Big Isle would do the local shooting community well.
We will never get what we don't ask for. We need to be/stay organized as a group. All of us!

Thoughts??
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: bushidoaa808 on November 22, 2013, 10:46:14 PM
was this the same guy that showed the unspent round and said that it was fired from the range?
Yup. That's the same guy that also said a perfectly shaped 30 cal round, tarnished and covered with dirt, dug out of his yard was a ricochet.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Bota-CS1 on November 22, 2013, 10:49:00 PM
Here's a pic of the offending round.  Taken from the Khon2 website.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: 230RN on November 23, 2013, 07:37:01 AM
Damn, that's the crappiest bullet photograph I ever saw.  No scaling, no contrasting background...  that's "evidence?" 

What caliber is it supposed to be?

Title: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Mr. Farknocker on November 23, 2013, 08:26:38 AM
Rob, thanks for the analysis. That's what i'm talking about. If the firearms community really wants a voice in these neighborhood meetings and the weight of authority behind their opinions, a forensic ballistic expert should be retained and his/her findings presented. The findings of an expert are based on an objectively verifiable ballistic probability based on measurable data.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Rocky on November 23, 2013, 09:18:06 AM
Damn that looks good for a ricochet !
Is that handmade rifling ?

  Hers the latest story from KHNL


http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24049729/stray-bullet-fears-prompt-change-at-koko-head-rifle-range (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24049729/stray-bullet-fears-prompt-change-at-koko-head-rifle-range)
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: robtmc on November 23, 2013, 10:39:50 AM
My quick look at what the profile would be to get a shot that far was assuming a clean shot <trying> for distance.

A ricochet would start from in a lot closer to the start of the incline and have to damn near go vertical to clear anything.

Anyone that has been around ricochets has seen how they generally lack much energy.   Our ancient VN flak jackets would not stop a direct rifle shot, but would a ricochet very nicely.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: bass monkey on November 23, 2013, 02:17:25 PM
Any chance that a ricochet could be caught in prevalent winds and blown that far?
Title: .
Post by: Q on November 23, 2013, 02:40:13 PM
.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: robtmc on November 23, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
Any chance that a ricochet could be caught in prevalent winds and blown that far?
Would take some howling Kona winds to even blow that direction.

The prevailing Trades blow the opposite direction.  I used to live just up Kalama valley from Queens Gate, and the wind always blew strong from the northeast.

Agree with the previous, the mass of a bullet make it unlikely a strong wind would give more help moving it than you would get with wind drift while shooting.
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Jl808 on November 23, 2013, 04:00:56 PM
Just wanting to eliminate another possibility... Could a stray golf ball make the hole that he showed on his window screen and glass window?  I mean, he is living by a golf course after all. 
Title: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: Dolomite on November 23, 2013, 04:53:32 PM
maybe the round came over the mountain from Waimanalo. The last 3 months had goats on the mountain wandering around...
Title: Re: Bullet found at Queen's Gate subdivision
Post by: jimsaloha on November 23, 2013, 05:08:55 PM
Anyone know if their is going to be someone at the Monday meeting representing our side?