2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 06:44:02 PM

Title: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 06:44:02 PM
At the meeting, there are plans for improvements to the range

Covered parking on top
Range underneath with limits on how you can shoot using baffles
Seating for observation above
Conference rooms
Classrooms
Club storage facilities
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 06:46:11 PM
Hmmm
NOT made by the city
An enthusiast who is a landscape architect is trying to stimulate discussion
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: bass monkey on November 26, 2013, 06:56:05 PM
Please tell me your bluffing.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:00:02 PM
Nope
He has a six minute spot on the agenda
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:04:18 PM
7:03 pm
Starting now
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:06:55 PM
Status reports from hfd, hpd, and board of water supply
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:07:55 PM
Around 60 people
2 dentistes in da house
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:08:59 PM
Gene ward and Sam slom here too
Title: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Jl808 on November 26, 2013, 07:13:57 PM
Those two are gonna get my personal support at their next fundraisers.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:15:27 PM
They deserve it
Slom is getting a little out there this session, but he's all we have basically
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: hnl.flyboy on November 26, 2013, 07:19:21 PM
At the meeting, there are plans for improvements to the range

Covered parking on top
Range underneath with limits on how you can shoot using baffles
Seating for observation above
Conference rooms
Classrooms
Club storage facilities

You don't say?  (sarcastic)

I personally think this is all hot air.  Conference rooms, class rooms, repaired bathrooms, and much more were said to be coming at a meeting last year (or whenever it was that Ed Masaki called out Knudesen).  They said they wanted it to be a "world-class shooting range."  All that's changed since then are a couple roof repairs and the new limit to 100 yards.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:21:44 PM
It's not a city plan
It's a citizen just trying to stimulate discussion
He's on our side, and just trying to be proactive
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Bigkahuna808 on November 26, 2013, 07:25:43 PM
At the meeting, there are plans for improvements to the range

Covered parking on top
Range underneath with limits on how you can shoot using baffles
Seating for observation above
Conference rooms
Classrooms
Club storage facilities

No way....u lie...lol
What still no bathrooms?
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: hnl.flyboy on November 26, 2013, 07:26:47 PM
It's not a city plan
It's a citizen just trying to stimulate discussion
He's on our side, and just trying to be proactive

Individuals can't act on initiative at the range.  Unions will be unhappy about not getting contracts, etc, etc.  Many people (with heavy equipment) have offered to clean up the range (cut down brush, fix the roofs, etc.) FOR FREE, and the City has never given a green light.  We've resorted to cutting down brush all sneaky-like prior to the SSF without asking.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: new guy on November 26, 2013, 07:29:48 PM
.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:34:12 PM
Hpd has opened an investigation into reckless endangerment regarding the magic bullet
I think this is the contact info (I will update when I confirm)
Lt Randall platt
723 3609

Other questions referred to
Dept of parks and recs
But the city will discuss the range further down in the agenda
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:36:10 PM

No way....u lie...lol
What still no bathrooms?

Lol
I don't see Luas in the design
I'll write in the comments on the plans
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:37:24 PM
Mulkern landscaping and nursery
Says drawn by JSM
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:39:07 PM
Refers to a report by georgene wakui, safety specialist II
Entitled "koko head rifle range addressing a safety concern"
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:41:33 PM
Six minute presentation entitled " modernization of site facilities and safety features to transform koko head shooting complex into a world-class facility"
By Kevin mulkern
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: bushidoaa808 on November 26, 2013, 07:44:56 PM
Six minute presentation entitled " modernization of site facilities and safety features to transform koko head shooting complex into a world-class facility"
By Kevin mulkern
Here's his contact info if you have some input
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Bigkahuna808 on November 26, 2013, 07:45:30 PM
Lol
I don't see Luas in the design
I'll write in the comments on the plans

Thanks buddy...just getting luas in and working water would be a huge step for the range
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Pizzo on November 26, 2013, 07:46:52 PM
Six minute presentation entitled " modernization of site facilities and safety features to transform koko head shooting complex into a world-class facility"
By Kevin mulkern
Dang, I actually worked for Kevin years ago doing landscaping for a summer. I had no clue he was pro 2a, that's great...way to go Kevin!

Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:51:26 PM
Hpd says the investigation is open and will not comment

Said there are 2 incidents they are investigating
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:53:49 PM
Sam slom says special session cost $150-200k
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:55:37 PM
Sam slom reports were are the only state in the union with no recall, referendums, term limits, and initiatives
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:56:15 PM
Said there were three other bills snuck in to the special session
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:57:36 PM
Connector website spent 58 million dollars and still not working
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Hawaii state website
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:03:00 PM
Gene ward up now
Apologizes for his newsletter saying that the rifle range is now limited to 100 years, not yards
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:08:27 PM
Marina association says they will not dump anything without permits even though it is not their responsibility
Says it is American marine corps responsibility
I guess this is the contractor for the dredging
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:10:30 PM
Presentation on range now
Starting
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:14:17 PM
Speaking as a private citizen
Kevin mulkern
"Simple solutions to prevent bullets from leaving the range"
Not a developer or contractor
Addressing broken restrooms
"Safety and health are biggest concerns"
Reduce load by opening up private and government ranges or new public ranges
Classroom for safety and hunters ed and clubs
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Wants the shooting community to get behind a master plan
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Bota-CS1 on November 26, 2013, 08:22:42 PM
How's about some lights since we're on the topic of improvements?   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:23:47 PM
Now he's talking too much
And conceding novice shooters may not follow safety rules
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:24:39 PM
The crowd is turning against
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:34:21 PM
Guy whose house was hit talking
Said police told him was .308
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: ImKu on November 26, 2013, 08:38:59 PM
Guy whose house was hit talking
Said police told him was .308

O really...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:39:18 PM
Young guy
I asked him on the record what he thinks happened
Said holes in screen and glass line up with koko crater
Could or would not say that it came from range
Could not or would not say it came for sandy beach
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:41:40 PM
Dr Max cooper now talking
He's saying its possible that ricochet could clear crater
Says that city is currently looking at replacing metal targets  that will remain vertical and have an adequate backstop
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:43:26 PM
I get the feeling Knudsen is monitoring 2aHI
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:44:48 PM
Toni Robinson parks and rec taking now
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:45:56 PM
Said city is in active discussion on what can be done and where the money will come from
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on November 26, 2013, 08:45:59 PM
I get the feeling Knudsen is monitoring 2aHI

He's watching *** *** ******* *** **** **  YouTube!!   :rofl:    :rofl:    :rofl:    :rofl:
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: OldFaithful on November 26, 2013, 08:47:49 PM
Are you gonna get to talk mac?
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Bigkahuna808 on November 26, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Thanks for the play by play Macsak
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:48:36 PM
Knudsen asking why city set 100 yard limit
Robinson says to be "extremely cautious" and eliminate that possibility while they investigate further

Comments accepted at parks@honolulu.gov
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Dolomite on November 26, 2013, 08:51:19 PM
Video tape lol
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Pizzo on November 26, 2013, 08:54:54 PM
Thanks for the play by play Macsak
X2  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:55:36 PM
I offered free classes
Knudsen worried about reporting as ethics violation

Dr cooper says that they report it as campaign contributions

City says studying and will follow up in January
Says that they don't know if changes are temporary or permanent
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 08:58:30 PM

X2  :thumbsup:

I'm going to be on olelo
My patients are not going to like that
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:00:56 PM
Local guy talking now
Range safety officer
Says we need to look at 3 things:
Intentional firing
Ricochet
Accidental discharge
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:01:29 PM
Neighborhood board guy says needs
Design
Training
Monitoring
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:02:46 PM
Range user says need more rsos
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:03:44 PM
Dr cooper and Harvey gerwhig say we need baffles
No "blue sky effect"
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:06:43 PM
Ed Masaki talking now
Said not pistols that are the problem
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:08:36 PM
Board member saying that it will take only one casualty to cause a lawsuit
So the city should spend money to improve the range
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:19:17 PM
We're  done here
Spoke to the guy whose house was hit
Said he's pro2a and has shot before and does not want the range shut down
He just doesn't want his house hit
I thanked hi for keeping an open mind and told him I wasn't calling hi out in front of the board
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:20:04 PM
Gene ward thanked me for my questions and comments
Asked if I was a trial lawyer
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: WCMTWS on November 26, 2013, 09:21:14 PM
Dr cooper and Harvey gerwhig say we need baffles
No "blue sky effect"

No.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: bass monkey on November 26, 2013, 09:22:26 PM
Did Q bring his display with ballistics analysis to counter Dr cooper?
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:24:14 PM
No q

Dr cooper and Harvey g gave in more than I would like, but I am hoping that they know more than me

Lots of people were not in agreement with what they saud
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Bigkahuna808 on November 26, 2013, 09:32:24 PM
So what's a baffle in terms of the range?
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: bass monkey on November 26, 2013, 09:32:55 PM
No q

Dr cooper and Harvey g gave in more than I would like, but I am hoping that they know more than me

Lots of people were not in agreement with what they saud

Yeah. Would have been perfect to pull out the ballistic charts and pictures so people can actually see what is being talked about.
Not to make an ass out of them, because they are highly respectable, but to provide facts.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: SpeedTek on November 26, 2013, 09:33:52 PM
Gene ward thanked me for my questions and comments
Asked if I was a trial lawyer

Just your typical dentist always analyzing things to a point....
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:37:08 PM
So what's a baffle in terms of the range?

overhead cover that limits elevation
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:37:40 PM
Just your typical dentist always analyzing things to a point....

anal-retentive is the term you are looking for...
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:39:03 PM
Yeah. Would have been perfect to pull out the ballistic charts and pictures so people can actually see what is being talked about.
Not to make an ass out of them, because they are highly respectable, but to provide facts.

no ballistic charts were necessary
the chair CONCEDED that it couldn't have been a ricochet at the beginning
dr cooper and harvey g said that it IS possible after that
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:40:34 PM
I get the feeling Knudsen is monitoring 2aHI

knudsen said "he read reports online of people saying that rounds came back past them"
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: bass monkey on November 26, 2013, 09:42:36 PM
no ballistic charts were necessary
the chair CONCEDED that it couldn't have been a ricochet at the beginning
dr cooper and harvey g said that it IS possible after that


Couldn't have been a richochet but we need overhangs and improvements so nothing can happen and the city will be liable. I'm getting mixed readings on them.  Do they really want the range shut down.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Super Dave on November 26, 2013, 09:44:32 PM
Thank you Macsac for the play by play.  Awesome!
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:47:55 PM
No.

to clarify
no "blue sky effect" means you cannot see sky, so there cannot be an accidental discharge that will impact anywhere other than the range
and yes, dr cooper and harvey g were proposing this
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 09:48:59 PM
Thank you Macsac for the play by play.  Awesome!

you're welcome, super d
Title: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Jl808 on November 26, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Thanks for the play by play Macsak

X2. Thank you macsak!!!

No q

Dr cooper and Harvey g gave in more than I would like, but I am hoping that they know more than me

Lots of people were not in agreement with what they saud

I wasn't there but hope they know what they are doing. What Dr Cooper says is taken as expert comment especially by the legislature.  Like with SB69.

I don't know about "no blue skies" but if they could get the city to allocate money to make needed improvements to the range, that would be good.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 26, 2013, 10:09:29 PM
X2. Thank you macsak!!!

I wasn't there but hope they know what they are doing. What Dr Cooper says is taken as expert comment especially by the legislature.  Like with SB69.

i wish you coulda been there, jl
i told devin/SSHI that you woulda been helpful
i spoke 3 times, and i thought that was too much
devin spoke once or twice and was very thoughtful

and the rest was all dr cooper and harvey g and then a few old salts from the range said some things

the board member that spoke the most (other than knudsen)  was a former police officer, but he didn''t sound on our side as much as i would've liked
and the rest was knudsen blathering on and on
i'll write more about him tomorrow
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Jl808 on November 26, 2013, 10:21:28 PM
I would have if I didn't have some work scheduled tonight. And still have the flu.
Title: .
Post by: Q on November 26, 2013, 10:31:02 PM
.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Rocky on November 27, 2013, 06:00:20 PM
Thanks Mac   :shaka:
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: dogman on November 27, 2013, 08:14:09 PM
I was at the meeting last night...thanks macsak for taking the mic... good job! Knudsen verbally agreed that a bullet could not ricochet and make it out of Koko Head crater from the range. Then I believe it was Dr. Cooper who took the mic to say that a bullet COULD ricochet and skip off the crater wall like skipping a rock across water and exit the crater. A bullet skipping across the crater wall would be like trying to skip a rock over the water at Sandy Beach. The crater wall is not a smooth surface and I'm confused about what he was trying to accomplish.
Title: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Jl808 on November 27, 2013, 08:59:45 PM
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Shaba on November 27, 2013, 09:52:18 PM
keep your friends close n enemies closer!!   :-X
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: bok88 on November 27, 2013, 10:25:27 PM
Thanks Macsak. Happy Thanksgiving Day to all.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 27, 2013, 10:28:13 PM
I was at the meeting last night...thanks macsak for taking the mic... good job! Knudsen verbally agreed that a bullet could not ricochet and make it out of Koko Head crater from the range. Then I believe it was Dr. Cooper who took the mic to say that a bullet COULD ricochet and skip off the crater wall like skipping a rock across water and exit the crater. A bullet skipping across the crater wall would be like trying to skip a rock over the water at Sandy Beach. The crater wall is not a smooth surface and I'm confused about what he was trying to accomplish.

you're welcome, dogm
were you the guy at the back leaning against the desk?

what dr cooper was talking about was that it is impossible to clear the crater if the bullet hits a VERTICAL target
he said that the targets that were removed were not maintained nor authorized and not all were exactly vertical
a non-vertical target (such as one that had fallen over at an angle), COULD cause a ricochet like a rock skipping on water
he then said that talks are underway with the city about the POSSIBILITY of replacing the distant targets with ones that are assured to be standing vertically at all times
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on November 28, 2013, 01:08:17 AM
Thanks for all the updates, and the great play-by-play as the meeting happened!!   :thumbsup:.


One thing you didn't mention ... did anyone ask how Knudsen's cat is doing?

 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: dogman on November 28, 2013, 06:52:39 PM
you're welcome, dogm
were you the guy at the back leaning against the desk?


Nope, I was the guy opening the windows with the pole. The woman who WAS opening the windows questioned why all the gun guys need to be here so I offered the help with the windows and told her I'm one of the gun guys.
Title: Re: You guys are NOT going to believe this
Post by: macsak on November 28, 2013, 06:55:29 PM
Good man
I thought that you were one of us, and was thinking what a good guy you were for helping out the lady