2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: glockernator on December 25, 2013, 09:13:27 PM
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>:( wuz wondering if anyone knows if the kokohead trail goin up the mountain is a state/county.federal lands legal hiking trail etc... cause seems to me wolud be more of a danger to hike up with the range so close an if u get some mento person might try to pic off someone goin up......reason i ask cause my wifes freinds said they could here the whizzz of the bullets sometimes.......idk ....anyone else herre abouit this stuff ......ever since stuff came up about bullets goin over ridge....i didnt hear anyone say anything about the hiking trail which seems to me more dangerous ! jus my opinion........anyone else care to comment ?
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>:( wuz wondering if anyone knows if the kokohead trail goin up the mountain is a state/county.federal lands legal hiking trail etc... cause seems to me wolud be more of a danger to hike up with the range so close an if u get some mento person might try to pic off someone goin up......reason i ask cause my wifes freinds said they could here the whizzz of the bullets sometimes.......idk ....anyone else herre abouit this stuff ......ever since stuff came up about bullets goin over ridge....i didnt hear anyone say anything about the hiking trail which seems to me more dangerous ! jus my opinion........anyone else care to comment ?
Greg? ???
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Greg? ???
DNFTT
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The path you refer to is a former tramway. Is is expressedly NOT a legal trail, not maintained by the Feds, the DLNR, or the C&C. Signs at the entrance and along the length clearly confirm this.
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thanks for the 411.......so why do they let people go up when its clearly a risk u might get hit by an errant bullet .........doesnt anyone think thats not right an wut the hell is DNFTT sorry i not schooled in the comp slang language !
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thanks for the 411.......so why do they let people go up when its clearly a risk u might get hit by an errant bullet .........doesnt anyone think thats not right an wut the hell is DNFTT sorry i not schooled in the comp slang language !
there is no risk
we are all safe gun owners and operators
move along
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thanks for the 411.......so why do they let people go up when its clearly a risk u might get hit by an errant bullet .........doesnt anyone think thats not right an wut the hell is DNFTT sorry i not schooled in the comp slang language !
they dont "let" people up there. just like how they dont "let" people up mariners ridge trail.
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Signs were put up warning them of the dangers but people still hiked up the trail.
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Since the range is closed, and we cannot go shoot, we should go over to the entrance to the trail and call the cops on anyone attempting to trespass that area. You know..... for 'safety'.
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.
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Pretty sure it's not Greg from prior posts.
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DNFTT
Do not feed the troll(s)
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Found this and someone's response is quite interesting.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/02/16/news/story06.html (http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/02/16/news/story06.html)
Knudsen responded: "The only way someone on the trail is endangered is if someone intentionally aimed a firearm at people on the trail. They are under very strict safety provisions at the range.
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I've gone up the trail twice as a get out of work, morale day. I never once heard any bullets whizzing by or overhead nor did anyone else in my department. I did puke at the top doing the hike hung over the 2nd time.
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if you think it's unsafe,
don't hike the trail.
see how easy that was. :grrr:
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I used to do that hike regularly before I started shooting at Koko Head. It does seem like the range is VERY close when you're walking along the paved road that runs around the upper baseball field, but I never hear any whizzing of projectiles anywhere when I was on the trail. In fact, once you get up beyond the bridge, you don't really hear shots from the range that much, particularly if it's windy.
I've seen tons of people get taken off the trail by HFD helicopter. I've always wondered what, if anything, they are charged for that service. When I used to snowboard in WA state, a couple resorts had signs at the boundary of the ski area warning that the area beyond is NOT part of the area that is patrolled and that there is a minimum fine of $1000 (or something like that) if they have to go in there to get you out.
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Found this and someone's response is quite interesting.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/02/16/news/story06.html (http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/02/16/news/story06.html)
Knudsen responded: "The only way someone on the trail is endangered is if someone intentionally aimed a firearm at people on the trail. They are under very strict safety provisions at the range.
Signs have been posted at the trails entrance for years.
It is only by acts of "VANDALISM" consisting of the removal of these "CITY AND COUNTY" signs that necessitated the need for REPLACEMENT signs.
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A lot of people get hurt on that trail which very often requires extraction via fire rescue / helo and this happens on a regular basis, generally weekly. Financially speaking it costs the tax payers A LOT of money to effect these rescues. The fuel for the helo alone for a single rescue is a good chunk of change. The overall numbers incurred by the taxpayers would probably shock many people. The trail presents far more of a risk to injury than the firing range. And hearing "whizzing bullets" is BS. Of all of the complaints related to that trail, "whizzing bullets" is not one of them.
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A lot of people get hurt on that trail which very often requires extraction via fire rescue / helo and this happens on a regular basis, generally weekly. Financially speaking it costs the tax payers A LOT of money to effect these rescues. The fuel for the helo alone for a single rescue is a good chunk of change. The overall numbers incurred by the taxpayers would probably shock many people. The trail presents far more of a risk to injury than the firing range. And hearing "whizzing bullets" is BS. Of all of the complaints related to that trail, "whizzing bullets" is not one of them.
I forgot who I spoke to, but it's my understanding that the medical, helo, crew etc. runs about $5,000 a trip to that mountain. And, like you said, we are talking like 1-2+ trips a week. Which is just over a quarter million dollars a year based on one trip a week.
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Idiots didn't hear bullets whizzing by it's the damn bees up there... So many bees by the bridge it's crazy... Plus noise rises so any small sound can be heard at the too... Ie I lived on the 32 floor if a building and I could hear people talking and laughing on the street... At the top is pretty quiet since people are out of breath...
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Holy crapola! I knew it was expensive but I didn't realize HOW expensive ONE flight for an MD500 is!
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The state's answer always seems to be "close it down" or pressure land owners to close something down.
The worst in my view was when Kipu Falls outside of Lihue was blocked off.
I would be angry if a public range was closed because of stupid tourists.
There are PLENTY of places to hike in Honolulu, do they really have to hike up a backstop to a shooting range?
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The state's answer always seems to be "close it down" or pressure land owners to close something down.
The worst in my view was when Kipu Falls outside of Lihue was blocked off.
I would be angry if a public range was closed because of stupid tourists.
There are PLENTY of places to hike in Honolulu, do they really have to hike up a backstop to a shooting range?
So true...you make far too much sense.
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There are PLENTY of places to hike in Honolulu, do they really have to hike up a backstop to a shooting range?
(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/27100000/Mmm-YES-michael-jackson-funny-moments-27192306-200-265.jpg)
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Holy crapola! I knew it was expensive but I didn't realize HOW expensive ONE flight for an MD500 is!
Howzit Ren,
Yeah, it's not cheap and maybe even more now with the MD520... And that's per flight hour so it adds up quick. I'll ask my friend the next time I see him, he does say they're up pulling folks of the crater quite often.
Boomah :shaka:
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excellent point Jared.
to be honest, I was always worried more about a (historically) crazed liberal firing down on the range at us sitting ducks than anyone on the line firing up. the range officers are just so vigilant and safety conscious to ever EVER let that happen. You can't even uncase without the muzzle pointing downrange you know?
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If I'm not mistaken your first helicopter ride with hfd is free for lost/stranded hikers. They used to charge but stopped because lost people tried to find their own way out instead of calling for help and paying. At least that's what I've heard.
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Howzit Ren,
Yeah, it's not cheap and maybe even more now with the MD520... And that's per flight hour so it adds up quick. I'll ask my friend the next time I see him, he does say they're up pulling folks of the crater quite often.
Boomah :shaka:
I always dreamed of flying one but after considering the cost I don't think I can afford any lessons.
Maybe Amazon should dedicate its "drones' to pull people off. They can offer it with Amazon Prime.
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Holy crapola! I knew it was expensive but I didn't realize HOW expensive ONE flight for an MD500 is!
I think HICARRY could give us a little more outlook, he works in this realm of disaster / medical recovery.
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If I'm not mistaken your first helicopter ride with hfd is free for lost/stranded hikers. They used to charge but stopped because lost people tried to find their own way out instead of calling for help and paying. At least that's what I've heard.
It's the wellfare ride that gets us. Regardless if someone pays for it, someone is paying for it. If they had to get the $$$ from the other person it would likely go to collections, where we would still only get a minimal amount.
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I think HICARRY could give us a little more outlook, he works in this realm of disaster / medical recovery.
I don't know the cost per hour to run the HFD helo, but $5,000.00 an hour sounds a bit high. A little research shows some organizations run on the low end of about $250.00/hr while a fully equipped and staffed medical helo could run 2,500 - 5,000/hr. I do know that the USCG C-130 (I just finished a mission with them to the Central Pacific about 2 weeks ago..."shark" bitten fisherman...) runs about $10,000/hr.....
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Taxpayers pay the bill. Easily one - two per week average. It adds up to a lot of money annually and that is for only that one trail.
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I don't know the cost per hour to run the HFD helo, but $5,000.00 an hour sounds a bit high. A little research shows some organizations run on the low end of about $250.00/hr while a fully equipped and staffed medical helo could run 2,500 - 5,000/hr. I do know that the USCG C-130 (I just finished a mission with them to the Central Pacific about 2 weeks ago..."shark" bitten fisherman...) runs about $10,000/hr.....
While I guess I could say that those people would be at "work" anyways, and could be sitting at the station etc. I was including costs for all persons involved (pilot, medics etc.), ride in the whambulance, etc.
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dang smilie wont transfer
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What does a whizzing bullet past your head even sound like? I go up that trail all the time. Been doing so since 2000 and have never experienced anything whizzing past my head.
Sometimes you can hear a ricochet, but it is clearly coming from the range below.
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What does a whizzing bullet past your head even sound like? I go up that trail all the time. Been doing so since 2000 and have never experienced anything whizzing past my head.
Sometimes you can hear a ricochet, but it is clearly coming from the range below.
bees buzzing - sound effect (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kc6fjIEV3s#)
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I've never been up there on the trail, but live in the area. I would think instead of little honey bees, the buzzing would be coming from all the black carpenter bees that love to make nests in trees and... tracks maybe? There are a lot of those bees in the area...
Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk 2
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Instead of wasting thousands and thousands of dollars rescuing trespassing idiots, why doesn't the city use that money to erect a chain link fence with barbwire around the base area of Koko Head Trail? Kill two birds with one stone, right?
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Instead of wasting thousands and thousands of dollars rescuing trespassing idiots, why doesn't the city use that money to erect a chain link fence with barbwire around the base area of Koko Head Trail? Kill two birds with one stone, right?
The people who use the trail will most likely tear it down and trespass, which they are already doing now. As posted before, signs warning them of an active range did not discourage them. I admit I hiked that range once with the Singaporean Army. Great views, but it doesn't precede Oahu's only public range. People can hike other places i.e. Diamond Head, Aiea but we can only shoot at ONE place. I can only imagine that the wants of the trail versus the wants of the range users will come to a debate in the near future. That's where we need to be united as a community. Vendors, users, other stakeholders.
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The people who use the trail will most likely tear it down and trespass, which they are already doing now. As posted before, signs warning them of an active range did not discourage them. I admit I hiked that range once with the Singaporean Army. Great views, but it doesn't precede Oahu's only public range. People can hike other places i.e. Diamond Head, Aiea but we can only shoot at ONE place. I can only imagine that the wants of the trail versus the wants of the range users will come to a debate in the near future. That's where we need to be united as a community. Vendors, users, other stakeholders.
choppa made at least 3 trips while i was at the action bay for less than 5 hours this afternoon
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choppa made at least 3 trips while i was at the action bay for less than 5 hours this afternoon
That's awesome. Trespass and get a free ride ala Arnold stylez.
(http://www.lametees.net/teeimages/choppa/daChoppa.jpg)
I should set up a vending stand at the base of Kokohead selling Tshirts
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Ok, went to the MD website. Their estimated cost per hour is $345.73 based on 2005 fuel costs and 2007 labor rates, for an MD520n. I don't think the cost of the EMT's or the firefighters can be added, as they are being paid regardless. The cost of the fuel needed for the trucks and ambulances can be added as well as expendables [ bandages, splints, cold packs, etc.]. I think we can safely estimate the cost per rescue at $500.00 per hour.
The average rescue time is what, 2 hours? There are an average of two rescues per week, for a total of $2,000.00 per week.
That's an average of $104,000.00 per year of taxpayer dollars, to support irresponsible people hiking on an "illegal" trail.
I don't feel too good about my tax dollars being spent to "save" people doing something they know they shouldn't be doing in the first place.
Imagine how nice the range could be if those monies were spent there, in support of responsible people, exercising their 2nd amendment rights in a responsible fashion, legally. Rather than on rescuing people that are knowingly breaking the law.
I guess we'll just have to wait for someone to die from a fall up there to see any action taken by the government.
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The state's answer always seems to be "close it down" or pressure land owners to close something down.
The worst in my view was when Kipu Falls outside of Lihue was blocked off.
I would be angry if a public range was closed because of stupid tourists.
There are PLENTY of places to hike in Honolulu, do they really have to hike up a backstop to a shooting range?
I used to go Kipu falls all the time as a kid. I was bummed when I went home and heard it was closed. When I was a kid my grandparents used to tell us the water is pilau with animal carcasses from the ranch at the top. I always thought they were messing with us until we saw a cows head right under the rope. Lol
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Bumped into someone who "knew" Knudson who said kitty boys friend, a retired firefighter was buzzed by a butterfly (thats what he said a stray tumbling round sounds like :wacko:) on Sunday December 15.
Now imagine the argument I had with this idiot when I informed him the rifle range was closed that day !
:o :crazy: :shake: >:( :rofl: :o :crazy::shake: >:( :rofl: :o :crazy: :shake: >:( :rofl:
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Bumped into someone who "knew" Knudson who said kitty boys friend, a retired firefighter was buzzed by a butterfly (thats what he said a stray tumbling round sounds like :wacko:) on Sunday December 15.
Now imagine the argument I had with this idiot when I informed him the rifle range was closed that day !
:o :crazy: :shake: >:( :rofl: :o :crazy::shake: >:( :rofl: :o :crazy: :shake: >:( :rofl:
Apparently we have some incredibly badass butterflies here in Hawaii! :crazy:
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Kokohead hikers need to be more concerned about crazy than about RESPONSIBLE citizens down below.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2009/Feb/02/ln/hawaii902020352.html (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2009/Feb/02/ln/hawaii902020352.html)
and for the butterfly loving peeps out there...the suspect's family's story..,"I don't know where down the line he had to take a different path. It has to be someone influencing him, I know that for a fact," said Tuiolemotu.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/9776850/stabbing-suspects-mother-speaks-exclusively-to-khnl (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/9776850/stabbing-suspects-mother-speaks-exclusively-to-khnl)
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Feb 2009 :wtf:
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Feb 2009 :wtf:
Still relevant as history has shown. As I said, as past events have shown, the illegal hikers have to fear a mental, crazy guy stabbing people vs. an errant projectile. Now even though no projectile has hit anyone, Kokohead Rifle range is shut down. Why? Because of some trumped up stories of butterflies, kites hitting roofs, and tumbling bullets? Meanwhile, the stabbing that has already happened, no one; not even the courts have done anything to prevent this tragedy from happening again. The victims are scarred for life but the felon is free as a bird and taking classes at Windward CC! Is that justice?!
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/19221026/man-who-stabbed-2-hikers-allowed-to-attend-college (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/19221026/man-who-stabbed-2-hikers-allowed-to-attend-college)
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Look how many people on the trail, no wonder so many rescues. One person falls and it's a domino affect...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/19/bedyru6u.jpg)
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They should shut down the trail for emergency repairs. I'm upset that so much of my tax dollars are spent on helicopter rides for people that are hurt. I don't think that trail is handicap accessible. They need a ramp. That bridge doesn't look like it was designed for pedestrian traffic, they need a pedestrian bridge. They also need restrooms, a first aid station and water points.
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They should shut down the trail for emergency repairs. I'm upset that so much of my tax dollars are spent on helicopter rides for people that are hurt. I don't think that trail is handicap accessible. They need a ramp. That bridge doesn't look like it was designed for pedestrian traffic, they need a pedestrian bridge. They also need restrooms, a first aid station and water points.
i bet you that gets done before the range gets improvements
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As someone who was trained in lie detection analysis, its clear that you are clearly fabricating your 'moke action' typing. Your speech is extremely sporadic with random, intentional misspelled words, and yet you include more complex words. For example, someone writing with the vocabulary and spelling skills of a kindergartener doesn't magically use the word 'errant' in the middle of their sentence.
Whoever you are (Greg / one of Greg's ass hats), take your BS somewhere else; we are all responsible firearm owners and operators, and there should be no danger to individuals if they followed Hawaii State Law and hiked on only sanctioned trails.
If you want to be a safety sally, you should be calling the police when people are on the trail to report trespassing.
This was my thought exactly as well. Clearly someone who wanted to purposely sound like a retard and bring up a specific subject with fabricated examples that just happened to pop up out of the blue on these boards ::) Riiiight...
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Look how many people on the trail, no wonder so many rescues. One person falls and it's a domino affect...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/19/bedyru6u.jpg)
GEE, WITH THAT MANY TRESPASSERS ON THE ILLEGAL TRAIL, YOU'D THINK A "BUTTERFLY" WOULD HAVE BIT ONE OF THEM BY NOW !