2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: avalasia on April 03, 2011, 08:04:28 PM
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I will be visiting Hawaii for a holiday in June and wanted to know if it will be possible to purchase a firearm during my trip.
I am an Australian citizen (traveling to Hawaii from Australia) and hold all necessary firearms and hunting licenses which allow me to own a firearms in Australia however i am unsure of what is needed to purchase a firearms in the united states.
My partner is a United States citizen which i hope will make my life easier as i have read that only citizens can legally purchase firearms. Is there any chance i would be able to purchase a firearm??
The firearm would not be used in Hawaii
Would accompany me back to Australia on my departure from Hawaii
I will be in Hawaii for 11 days and from what i have read there is a 14 day waiting period on a permit to acquire, can these permits be completed prior to arriving in hawaii?
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This would be new for me -- I don't know and will have to research.
My initial thoughts is that you would not be able to purchase a handgun in Hawaii. (Class requirements, time requirements, permit + registration).
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I'm pretty sure that only US citizens can buy firearms. And having your partner buy one for you is pretty much the definition of a straw man purchase.
Also, the first time you apply for a permit here, you (or your partner) have to be fingerprinted for the background check. Which means there's not any way to get a jump start on the process, you and your fingers will have to show up in person.
I'd say this isn't looking promising.
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i emailed some firearms dealers in Hawaii and the verdict is that i won't be able to buy.
I guess that means i have to pay double the price here in Sydney.. Oh well sh|t happens.
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No can do.
You must be a resident of the state of the state in which you purchase firearms.
11 days of vacation doesn't qualify.
Sorry. :(
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You must be a resident of the state of the state in which you purchase firearms.
Not true. I frequently buy firearms in states where I am not a resident. It's one of the primary reasons I bother going to the mainland!
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Tom you cannot take possession of a firearm in another state.
That is federal law.
You must have it shipped to an FFL in your state of residence.
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Here's your very own copy of the ATF Federal Firearms Regulations
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf)
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Tom you cannot take possession of a firearm in another state.
That is federal law.
You must have it shipped to an FFL in your state of residence.
And I repeat, I do this regularly. In the gun stores, they have me fill out the form, they run the background check, and they hand me the gun. I've done this dozens of times over the years I've lived here in multiple states. The only limitation has been that they insist on shipping handguns. Rifles and shotguns, though, no worries.
Feel free to find the citation in that 243 page document and prove me wrong!
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Several states have exemptions, but the majority will allow nonresidents to purchase long guns. Handgun and nfa are restricted to home state. (there is an amendment to the law going through congress though, I believe)
.mil have a weird thing too. Just need a copy of orders, along with usual paperwork, and they can buy whatever. (orders let them get around residency)
(sold thousands of guns working for a FFL)
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Tom you cannot take possession of a firearm in another state.
That is federal law.
You must have it shipped to an FFL in your state of residence.
And I repeat, I do this regularly. In the gun stores, they have me fill out the form, they run the background check, and they hand me the gun. I've done this dozens of times over the years I've lived here in multiple states. The only limitation has been that they insist on shipping handguns. Rifles and shotguns, though, no worries.
Feel free to find the citation in that 243 page document and prove me wrong!
Damn. What states are these. I gotta go there. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than HAWAII. and they ship the handguns as in to a FFL dealer or what?
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Damn. What states are these. I gotta go there. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than HAWAII. and they ship the handguns as in to a FFL dealer or what?
Utah, Texas, Louisiana, Washington, Arkansas, Arizona. Have bought rifles or shotguns in each of them and walked out of the store or pawn shop with 'em. Usually go straight to the post office and ship them home to Hawaii. Where, of course, I promptly register them!
Handguns get shipped by the seller to a local FFL. I always take a few copies of Big Al's (Ready on the Right) FFL with me just in case. He does transfers for the cost of filing the paperwork!
What really rocks about doing this is the used gun market. New guns on the mainland aren't that much cheaper than they are here once you've paid to get them home. But going to a place where pawn shops and gun stores really do a brisk trade in used guns is fundamentally different than shopping for a used gun here. I set aside at least one full day each trip for gun shopping, and visit as many stores and pawn shops as I possibly can until the money runs out.
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So Ready On the Right will do transfers from private owners on the mainland? Wanted to get into the used gun/gunbroker thing, but wasn't sure about the transfer.
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Tom, hate to tell ya, but unless there is some crazy Hawaii law, there is no fee for paperwork from the gov. (did you mean dealer's time?)
As for the states you can buy long guns in, I believe it's pretty much any state without permit to purchase stuff. Hell, you can do it in Chicago with no FOID card as of a few days ago. (new ruling)
I'm trying to figure out what to do while I'm on the big island. I'll have to get a permit, but my perminant physical is in Alaska. My temp is on BH, but I have no paperwork to support it. *shrug* will probably just work on my ar and buy stuff when I get home and resume FFL work.
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So Ready On the Right will do transfers from private owners on the mainland? Wanted to get into the used gun/gunbroker thing, but wasn't sure about the transfer.
Yep. Most local FFLs will do it, but Big Al's entire business is transfers and consignment sales. And he's got the best price on transfers I've found on the island.
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Tom, as you've pointed out, you must take delivery of a handgun in your home state according to federal law.
As for long guns. Some states will allow you to purchase long guns in their state as long as they know that the long gun is legal in your state.
Are you saying that you buy long guns in other states and list your home state as Hawaii and they give you possession of the long gun right there?
Which state does that? As they would have to be knowledgeable of Hawaii state laws in order to be legal.
Oh and I second the vote for Al as the best bet for FFL transfers into the state.
I don't think very many gun stores do it anymore.
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OGC does transfers all the time at a very reasonable price too.
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Are you saying that you buy long guns in other states and list your home state as Hawaii and they give you possession of the long gun right there?
Which state does that?
I thought I was clear. Yes, as part of the purchase of any firearm, proper identification must be displayed. Mine clearly says "Hawaii." And every state I listed earlier did that. Which is why I listed them as examples of places where I had purchased, taken possession of, and walked out with, a firearm.
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King, read my above post. If you have any questions, let me know.
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The bottom line is no matter how many times you "make yourself clear" that guy from Australia CANT buy a firearm in Hawaii. :closed:
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The bottom line is no matter how many times you "make yourself clear" that guy from Australia CANT buy a firearm in Hawaii. :closed:
I was referencing that us citizens can but in other states.
Technically, non citizens, resident aliens, and green card holders can buy firearms in the US. It just gets more involves and usually involves a delay, lots of photocopies, etc. Back home, we sold (with ATF approval) to people from other countries all the time. Mind you, it was long gun only. You'd be amazed how expensive it gets, europeans love Alaska moose hunts. Custom is to give the guide the rifle as a tip when heading home. (usually can't have one without heavy permitting in Europe) Had a guy from Germany drop 8-10k on a moose hunt last fall. 4k+ was just hunting license fees and the like. Guide ended up with a really nice browning stalker in .300wsm with a leupold vx-3 3-9 on top. Great setup. (did the work myself) ended up shooting 3/4moa groups and a 1 shot drop on the moose at 300+ yards. Great shot for a European lol.
So, on topic, the OP technically could buy a long gun in Hawaii, if they were here through the wait and federal delays.
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The bottom line is no matter how many times you "make yourself clear" that guy from Australia CANT buy a firearm in Hawaii. :closed:
They can, but not within a 11 day visit. The citizenship requirement is part of HPD's process, not the law. HRS 134-2, has provisions for non citizens that require additional background checks. That being said, the entire process is just too much of a hassle for someone here on vacation.
avalasia: It can be done but won't be easy or even worth it. Unless the "right" people are working the window, expect to spend an entire day at HPD if not more (multiple visits) just to get the application. After that, the additional background checks will add to your wait. The way I see it, calculate the cost of extending your stay to 1 to 2 months just for a permit to acquire (with no guarantee it'll be granted). By the time you add it all up you'd be better off just paying the higher price at home. Also, I'm not 100% sure but they may have restrictions for transporting firearms on international flights. BUT I'm a glass half full kind of guy, so as an alternative to the whole permitting process, try emailing dealers in Hawaii before your visit. If there is a way for you to pay for it in person, then have it shipped/transferred, they'll know.
As for the states you can buy long guns in, I believe it's pretty much any state without permit to purchase stuff. Hell, you can do it in Chicago with no FOID card as of a few days ago. (new ruling)
I'm trying to figure out what to do while I'm on the big island. I'll have to get a permit, but my perminant physical is in Alaska. My temp is on BH, but I have no paperwork to support it. *shrug* will probably just work on my ar and buy stuff when I get home and resume FFL work.
As always, state and county laws apply. California is a no-go (big surprise). But I can confirm those listed by Tom_G from personal experience. And add Nevada (except Clark County) & Florida. Personally, I prefer gun shows over pawn shops but I got a great deal on a Benelli O/U last October in Killeen. Just showed my Hawaii drivers license, paid, and walked out the door with it. For handguns, not all FFL's in the mainland will hassle you about shipping it out of state. Most will allow you to take possession after their state mandated waiting period and let you handle shipping it yourself.
Have you considered using your work address for the permit application?
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Citizenship requirements are actually on the Hawaii Defense Foundations radar, but a few more pieces have to fall into place prior to that. At this time there is no real way to fix this, without becoming a right to carry case or a case of first impression.
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Damn. What states are these. I gotta go there. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than HAWAII. and they ship the handguns as in to a FFL dealer or what?
Utah, Texas, Louisiana, Washington, Arkansas, Arizona. Have bought rifles or shotguns in each of them and walked out of the store or pawn shop with 'em. Usually go straight to the post office and ship them home to Hawaii. Where, of course, I promptly register them!
Handguns get shipped by the seller to a local FFL. I always take a few copies of Big Al's (Ready on the Right) FFL with me just in case. He does transfers for the cost of filing the paperwork!
What really rocks about doing this is the used gun market. New guns on the mainland aren't that much cheaper than they are here once you've paid to get them home. But going to a place where pawn shops and gun stores really do a brisk trade in used guns is fundamentally different than shopping for a used gun here. I set aside at least one full day each trip for gun shopping, and visit as many stores and pawn shops as I possibly can until the money runs out.
When you mail yourself the gun, is there any special paperwork to fill out since you're mailing a firearm?
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When you mail yourself the gun, is there any special paperwork to fill out since you're mailing a firearm?
The post office can ask you for two things.
1> they can ask you to demonstrate that the gun is unloaded. Never had them do that yet.
2> they can ask for a signed statement declaring that the gun is unloaded, and that it does not violate the Gun Control Act of 1968. I always take one of these along with me.
The regs are covered in the USPS Publication 52 (http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm)
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When you mail yourself the gun, is there any special paperwork to fill out since you're mailing a firearm?
The post office can ask you for two things.
1> they can ask you to demonstrate that the gun is unloaded. Never had them do that yet.
2> they can ask for a signed statement declaring that the gun is unloaded, and that it does not violate the Gun Control Act of 1968. I always take one of these along with me.
The regs are covered in the USPS Publication 52 (http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm)
So is there anyway I can actually get a handgun and take it out of the store with me? This 14 day waiting period is a PITA. I read somewhere in this post that some stores might let you take the handgun out of the store if you wait for that states "waiting period". Any experience with that?
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So is there anyway I can actually get a handgun and take it out of the store with me? This 14 day waiting period is a PITA. I read somewhere in this post that some stores might let you take the handgun out of the store if you wait for that states "waiting period". Any experience with that?
At this point, the waiting period is a state requirement, not a federal, so you'd need to go to a state that isn't so restrictive.
Alternately, you could probably exploit the infamous "gun show loophole" by buying from a private seller. Just be sure that you both follow all the relevant rules!
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+1 to what Tom is saying.
Take AK for example. As long as you pass the background check, in and out with whatever you want in 10 minutes. No waiting period except for nfa items. Can't wait to get back and get my form 4's done.
As for mailing firearms, it has to be addressed from yourself, to yourself. That's a big one. If (hypothetically) I had my mom ship a shotgun to me, even if I already owned it, would be breaking federal law.
Just keep track of what you do is all I'm saying. Personally, given shipping and insurance cost, I prefer to fly with mine. $25 for an extra bag (gun case) and I can get 3-5 long guns in it. Going between AK and HI/WA I can carry 50lbs of ammo also. (Alaska Airlines rule)
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This has been a very informative post. Tom, seeing as you have a lot of experience with this is there a way you could compile a writeup or FAQ about the process of buying firearms on the mainland?
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If anyone has questions, just ask.
Steps to buying a long gun on the mainland: Free State Edition
1. Find a store that has the long gun you like
2. Fill 4473 and list home state as proper in box. (For most of you guys, that would be Hawaii)
3. Wait fit nics approval. If delayed return in 3 business days to pick up firearm, per Brady law.
4. Pay for firearm
5. Enjoy
Weapons classified as pistols:
Includes shotguns that come factory with pistol grip only
We always declined a sale for out of state buyers in this case. It is possible to pay for firearm and have it shipped to a local FFL, but that is up to the specific dealer.
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No can do.
You must be a resident of the state of the state in which you purchase firearms.
11 days of vacation doesn't qualify.
Sorry. :(
Only true for handguns, you can buy a long gun in any state with your Hawaii ID.
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+1 to what Tom is saying.
Take AK for example. As long as you pass the background check, in and out with whatever you want in 10 minutes. No waiting period except for nfa items. Can't wait to get back and get my form 4's done.
As for mailing firearms, it has to be addressed from yourself, to yourself. That's a big one. If (hypothetically) I had my mom ship a shotgun to me, even if I already owned it, would be breaking federal law.
Just keep track of what you do is all I'm saying. Personally, given shipping and insurance cost, I prefer to fly with mine. $25 for an extra bag (gun case) and I can get 3-5 long guns in it. Going between AK and HI/WA I can carry 50lbs of ammo also. (Alaska Airlines rule)
Did that with three of my ARs when I moved to TX, mailed to myself from Ewa Beach to Lake Havasu, AZ to bypass California on my drive to Texas. What you got on form 4 pending? Ive got a KAC QDSS NT4 still on form 3 from Arkansas and a AR lower on Form 1, been waiting on the can since Christmas week and the AR lower about 2 weeks. Wouldve been nice to get them on the same timeframe, but I got a feeling the form 1 will be back by the time the can gets to my local dealer, and Ill be in for another 2-3 month wait on the form 4 before I get to take it home.
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This has been a very informative post. Tom, seeing as you have a lot of experience with this is there a way you could compile a writeup or FAQ about the process of buying firearms on the mainland?
Sorry, I've been in DC for almost 2 weeks, didn't mean to bail.
I did a writeup in the Hawaii Rifleman (http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1753) a while back about how to ship firearms, which is the lion's share of what's complicated about buying out-of-state. Also, when you buy longarms out-of-state, you don't need a permit to acquire. You'll still need one for handguns, as the handgun will be sent to a local FFL, who will doubtless register it.
I'll file this idea and use it as an article in the Rifleman sometime later this summer, probably July or August. Then we can link to that.