2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Tom on February 05, 2014, 11:26:49 AM
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HPD tells people that after picking up a handgun, you must register it within 48 hours. I've been trying to understand where the 48 hours comes from. I couldn't find anything in the HRS about it. HRS states the seller must report the sale within 48 hours. HRS also states the buyer has 5 days to register a firearm. So far, the best answer I've gotten is that the back of permit says "This report must be properly filled out by vendor or transferer and returned to the chief of police within 48 hours after taking possession of the firearm". This is ambiguous at best. The first part is clearly the vendor but then takes possession seems to switch it to the buyer. It seems to reflect the 48 hours the seller has to report the sale.
Does anyone know what basis HPD's "48 hours to register a handgun" is? .
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The 48 hour requirement is for notification of private sales. If you sell a rifle or shotgun to a private party, you as the seller have 48 hours to notify HPD that you have transferred the firearm. The 5 day requirement for registration is for the buyer. As usual, the people at the counter rarely know the laws and regulations that they are required to know.
HRS 134-2:
In all cases where a rifle or shotgun is acquired from another person within the State, the person who is transferring title to the rifle or shotgun shall submit, within forty-eight hours after transferring the firearm, to the authority which issued the permit to acquire, the following information, in writing: name of the person who transferred the firearm, name of the person to whom the title to the firearm was transferred; names of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; and serial number as applicable.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm)
Honolulu PD website:
For in state registration, take your firearm in person to the Main Police Station Firearms Section no later than 5 calendar days from a purchase or acquisition for registration. You need the following when you register your firearm:
Valid photo identification
Your original firearms permit
Name, address, phone number of seller, in state registration only
The firearm for inspection
If you were born outside the United States, bring proof of citizenship such as an Original US Passport, Original Naturalization Certificate, Original Born Abroad Certificate, or if you are in the military your Enlisted (ERB) or Officer (ORB) Record Brief will suffice only if the document states you are a United States Citizen.
Out of state registrants need to take firearm(s), in person, to the Main Police Station Firearms Section no later than 3 calendar days from arrival. Out of state registrants are encouraged to arrive at the Firearms Unit no later than 3:00 pm. The out of state registration process can be lengthy. If there is a line, we may not be able to accommodate you. There is no 14-day waiting period for Out-of-State Registration. You need the following when you register your firearm:
http://www.honolulupd.org/information/index.php?page=gunmain#tabs-3 (http://www.honolulupd.org/information/index.php?page=gunmain#tabs-3)
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As usual, the people at the counter rarely know the laws and regulations that they are required to know.
Very true!
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OK you can argue with HPD but this is what will happen. This is for handguns. This I know for fact. Seen it. 48 hour return.
1. They will register it for you.
2. They will confiscate the handgun. Make you reapply for the handgun permit. The FFL you aquired it from will have to go down to HPD and re-aquire the handgun.
then you have to go and pick it up from your FFL in 2 weeks.......
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So you are SOL if you aquired a handgun on the Friday of a three day weekend?
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May as well ask in this thread. For the 5 day waiting period, does the day you actually get the gun count as a day? Even if its a weekend and hpd is closed? Get it on Friday after hpd is closed, by Monday 3 days out of 5 are gone.
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So you are SOL if you aquired a handgun on the Friday of a three day weekend?
That portion of the law was modified based on my testimony to the legislature last year. It's five days started on July 1st 2013 I believe? It was part of the running background checks on people when they bring in guns from out of state bill that Espero and others put through last year.
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OK you can argue with HPD but this is what will happen. This is for handguns. This I know for fact. Seen it. 48 hour return.
1. They will register it for you.
2. They will confiscate the handgun. Make you reapply for the handgun permit. The FFL you aquired it from will have to go down to HPD and re-aquire the handgun.
then you have to go and pick it up from your FFL in 2 weeks.......
They should contact an attorney. There is no legal basis for that.
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Is this something that one can write the Attorney General about and ask for an opinion or do you actually have to sue to get this fixed? This is assuming, of course, that the 48 hours is bogus. If anyone can point to where the 48 hours comes from in the law, I would appreciate it.
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After some amateur research, I don't think the 48 hours is a legal requirement for the buyer, it's to protect the seller's okole.
Technically the law says (based on my public edjumacation ) all firearms must be registered within 5 days. ( HRS 134-3 )
However, for any pistol or handgun sold within the state, the seller is required by law to submit the permit to the issuing authority within 48 hours after transferring.
If the buyer registers it within 48 hours and submits his permit, this constitutes submitting the permit on behalf of the seller. ( this part is my conjecture )
ยง134-2 Permits to acquire.
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(f) In all cases where a pistol or revolver is acquired from another person within the State, the permit shall be signed in ink by the person to whom title to the pistol or revolver is transferred and shall be delivered to the person who is transferring title to the firearm, who shall verify that the person to whom the firearm is to be transferred is the person named in the permit and enter on the permit in the space provided the following information: name of the person to whom the title to the firearm was transferred; names of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; and serial number as applicable. The person who is transferring title to the firearm shall sign the permit in ink and cause the permit to be delivered or sent by registered mail to the issuing authority within forty-eight hours after transferring the firearm.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm)
I don't know how the buyer would register it after the permit is submitted to the HPD as he wouldn't have a permit.
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I don't know how the buyer would register it after the permit is submitted to the HPD as he wouldn't have a permit.
I imagine that if everything is done properly, the signed permit sent in by the seller would be at the HPD firearms division by the time the buyer went to register, they would just have to cross-reference the information. Of course, that would only work if the buyer waited at least 1-2 days before registering.
I have only done one private sale of a pistol, and in that case I met the buyer at HPD and did everything at the counter. Still had to sign the pistol permit form as it requires.
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As long as we're registering, what is the benefit and/or disadvantage of registering as husband and wife ?
If husband beats wife and gets TRO, does wife get to keep gun ? :crazy:
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As long as we're registering, what is the benefit and/or disadvantage of registering as husband and wife ?
If husband beats wife and gets TRO, does wife get to keep gun ? :crazy:
I can tell you one disadvantage of buying from husband and wife co-registrants. I met the seller at the police department to do the transaction and then discovered that he and his wife were co-registrants, and as such both had to sign the seller transfer papers (seller didn't know both signatures were required). The staff said they absolutely had to have both signatures as a recent sale by a husband had happened without both signatures, and the separated/divorced wife sued either because she didn't want to sell or wanted half the proceeds. My seller graciously drove the hour to his house, had his wife sign the paper, and drove back to the police department while I goofed off for two hours in town. It ended up taking me over four hours to do 5 minutes of paperwork. So you might want to ask prior to the actual transfer if the seller is the sole registrant, and if not, to make sure that the other registrant has signed the paperwork prior to meeting up for the transfer.
And in answer to you second question, I'm pretty sure that yes, she would be the only legal possessor at that time. I'm guessing he might still have to sign to transfer sole ownership to her or a third party, but as a "prohibited person" not sure what his legal status is.
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The person who is transferring title to the firearm shall sign the permit in ink and cause the permit to be delivered or sent by registered mail to the issuing authority within forty-eight hours after transferring the firearm.
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As long as we're registering, what is the benefit and/or disadvantage of registering as husband and wife ?
If husband beats wife and gets TRO, does wife get to keep gun ? :crazy:
Does nobody know or have feedback on this ?
(no, I did not beat my wife. If you ever met her, you would know why :love:)
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Does nobody know or have feedback on this ?
(no, I did not beat my wife. If you ever met her, you would know why :love:)
For the first part, for long gun, I don't think it makes too much of a difference. For handgun though, my wife and I registered her handgun jointly so that either one of us could legally use the gun at the range if the other couldn't be there. I don't think they changed the law (could be wrong though), but I don't think you're legally allowed to let someone "borrow" your handgun unless the registered owner is there in person.
For the second part, I don't know. I always wondered what would happen if for some reason someone put a TRO one either one of us, would SSD show up and remove the one jointly registered gun from the house since we both live there?
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For the first part, for long gun, I don't think it makes too much of a difference. For handgun though, my wife and I registered her handgun jointly so that either one of us could legally use the gun at the range if the other couldn't be there. I don't think they changed the law (could be wrong though), but I don't think you're legally allowed to let someone "borrow" your handgun unless the registered owner is there in person.
For the second part, I don't know. I always wondered what would happen if for some reason someone put a TRO one either one of us, would SSD show up and remove the one jointly registered gun from the house since we both live there?
still true, you are not allowed to let someone borrow a handgun
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For the first part, for long gun, I don't think it makes too much of a difference. For handgun though, my wife and I registered her handgun jointly so that either one of us could legally use the gun at the range if the other couldn't be there. I don't think they changed the law (could be wrong though), but I don't think you're legally allowed to let someone "borrow" your handgun unless the registered owner is there in person.
For the second part, I don't know. I always wondered what would happen if for some reason someone put a TRO one either one of us, would SSD show up and remove the one jointly registered gun from the house since we both live there?
Thanks MNPOahana.
A handgun registered jointly also has legal connotaions should an altercation happen within the home.
I don't htink there would be a difference between the long gun and the handgun.
FYI, It is ILLEGAL to "let someone "borrow" your handgun unless the registered owner is there in person".
Still looking for answers.
Related mostly to sentance's # 1 & 2 above