2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: BLKDRGN on March 17, 2014, 10:33:10 AM
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Yes I still do not have an AR-15. Now it's time to start researching. Why would one custom build an AR over one they can buy? Let's say your budget is $3,000, would you be getting parts that are much better and still fit together nicely. At the same time what about warranty? Does the manufacture cover the whole rifle if a part break? If I go custom I'm assuming there is no warranty.
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depends on what you want.
If you don't know how to put one together or don't know what you are looking for, an off the shelf model may work great for you. (Remember that you have to pay taxes on an already put together rifle which is about 200 bucks on average.)
If you demand accuracy (1/4-1/2MOA out of a semi auto) and/or want a sweet trigger and are willing to put in the work to make it or if you want a short gun (perhaps a ar15 pistol) or if you just want to save money (you can build a no frills one which still works great for 500-600 bucks... yeah, cheaper then a glock! there really isn't an excuse right now why you don't have an ar15 if you want one) and want to know exactly how it works and how to fix it if something goes wrong, then building one would be the way to go. other reasons why you might wanna do a custom build is that you might also want a gun which can handle 5.56 instead of only .223. Perhaps you might want a piston instead of a DI system. You may not like the front F-post sight and want to put a scope or red-dot sight on your weapon for sights. perhaps you want a lower receiver which is shaped differently then the standard one is shaped or you want an AR-15 which can swap out barrels and even different calibers in just a min or two. perhaps you have too much time on your hand and want to make one out of an 80%. It is not very hard to build one out of parts (there are tons of videos out there to show you step by step how to do it) and it doesn't take too much time either.
There is no warranty on custom builds but there isn't very much that will go wrong unless you get crappy parts (unstaked bcg, lower quality parts kits, ect) and/or if you don't keep your gun clean and lubed (you might want an AK-47 if you don't want to clean and lube your guns). Most of the time it is user error or reloading error which breaks a gun. Oh and if you want to save time, just put together a lower receiver (takes only 15-30 mins) and pop on an already built upper if your going the cheap route. They are just as cheap if not cheaper then upper parts kits and they are tested to work from the factory. The uppers some times come with warranty depending on who you buy from.
BTW: why in the hell are you buying a $3000 AR-15 for a first gun? Unless your taking in to account how much a good scope cost or stocking up some on 5.56, a 700-1500 dollar ar15 should work just fine for 99% of the time.
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Thanks. I never really looked into AR's as everyone has one. As far as price I have no idea what one geos for. I just looked up Novesky and they had one for $2900 so I was assuming that was around an average price. I want one more for home defense and plinking around. I'm not going to use it for competition. I mean I want it accurate too but I don't want to have to baby it. So all manufacture AR's do not offer 5.56?
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Thanks. I never really looked into AR's as everyone has one. As far as price I have no idea what one geos for. I just looked up Novesky and they had one for $2900 so I was assuming that was around an average price. I want one more for home defense and plinking around. I'm not going to use it for competition. I mean I want it accurate too but I don't want to have to baby it. So all manufacture AR's do not offer 5.56?
HOly shit, your going for Noveske and you think that is the average? That is all the way on the the high end of the scale. Nothing wrong with Noveske, I like them but I don't think you should think that is average by any means! I mean while your at it, you could pick up an HK MR556...
If your just looking for something to have fun with, you can go a lot cheaper and still have a great rifle. How accurate is enough for you? All AR-15's should group 1-1.5 inches at 100 yards or so if you do your part. If you are planning on using iron sights and are not benching the gun, you don't really need one which will do 1/2 MOA.
and no, not all manufactures offer 5.56. Remember you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 but not necessarily the other way around. For me, I'd defiantly get one that can chamber 5.56
What kinda weight are you willing to put up with? bull barrels weight more, longer barrels weight more, all metal receiver and parts weight more. Do you wanna run and gun and have fun that way?
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3k look into an lwrc spr . It's light, accurate and piston . Its a little over 3 but to me worth it .
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IDK, I just googled and lot's of people recommended Novesky and Colt. I plan on using a red dot and want it pretty accurate but will not be bench resting it. No offense to anyone but why have a tactical rifle to sit on a bench? I will be standing, crouching, lying most of the time. I don't want to worry that it's so precise and delicate that I have to baby it. I want to be able to throw it on the ground, mud, etc.
As for weight, I have no idea. I thought the lighter the better as you will be carrying it around and it's not for an accuracy competion.
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You should look at the PWS ARs. They're piston driven design basically takes the function of an AK and puts it in an AR. And for 3K, you could get one and have enough left over to buy more than a thousand rounds of 5.56 ammo.
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You should look at the PWS ARs. They're piston driven design basically takes the function of an AK and puts it in an AR. And for 3K, you could get one and have enough left over to buy more than a thousand rounds of 5.56 ammo.
Is this the one they sell at Gun Source? I think I remember the brand now. I thought that gas was better than piston. I can't remember the reasons why but all my friends said so.
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Not to get into the piston vs gas impingement debate, but both will do well. Gas impingement will have a lot more interchangeable parts while most piston driven systems are proprietary.
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The majority of manufacturers and good custom gunsmiths will warranty their work. If you do stuff that voids the warranty, then it is on you to pay for the fix.
What are you going to use it for?
If it is out of nostalgia because it is what you carried into battle, then get one that looks the closest to what you had. Or you can do the tactical barbie and accessorize with all the high speed/ low drag bling.
If you are a serious competitor, then get the one that is a proven winner and feed it the best ammo you can afford the extent of your wallet.
If you are into the survival/defensive mind set, then get the basic durable common ones with quality interchangeable parts and the basic spare parts kits. Being able to keep your own rifle shooting is better than having a good warranty that will leave you without a rifle for weeks.
You can buy two $1500 rifles, or two $1000 rifles and add optics.
Les Baer basic M4 flat top without sights $2240
From Les Baer site excerpts
We will not work on any firearm which has previously been worked on by other gunsmiths.
Our delivery times are estimated at the time of the order. We will always try to hold our
estimated delivery times. Under no circumstances will we rush any order just to get it out of the shop. The quality of our custom pistols and rifles will not be compromised.
On all custom pistols and rifles we want your 100% satisfaction. As long as customer abuse has not created a problem, we will probably repair your custom pistol or rifle free of charge. If you have a problem, it’s usually ammunition related and we can help you over the phone with any concerns you might have. If you have questions, please feel free to call during office hours.
100% satisfaction is always our goal. This does not cover any gunsmithing or modifications done by anyone outside our company .NO EXCEPTIONS!
Policies On Parts Sales:
No returns will be allowed if the product has been altered in any way!
Absolutely no exceptions to above stipulations!
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Is this the one they sell at Gun Source? I think I remember the brand now. I thought that gas was better than piston. I can't remember the reasons why but all my friends said so.
Yes, Gun Source has them. DI is better than piston? Depends on what you define as better. Pistons run cleaner and cooler. DI requires more cleaning because the gas, obviously, is in more direct contact with the bcg. DI tends to be a little more accurate than pistons because of less moving parts. So, they're pluses and minuses for both.
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Like you I didn't have that much experience with AR's. So I did a lot of research both online, and using the search function on this forum as well as the other AR forums and took note of what people felt worked for them, what they thought was worth their money and what they didn't feel was worth it. I also spent a lot of time visit the local shops handling various manufacturer's products, seeing how they felt in my hands, how well built they seemed, attention to detail, etc. You've put the right amount of thought into this, and it seems like you've got a grip on the different priorities you'll want/need from the rifle. That's a good thing. In the end though it came down to what worked best/best met all your needs, and that's what I would say here: get what works best for you. :thumbsup:
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With $3K to play with, I think I would get a mid-range AR and an AK (I didn't see one sitting in your safe, yet).
I have two safes ;)
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Not to get into the piston vs gas impingement debate, but both will do well. Gas impingement will have a lot more interchangeable parts while most piston driven systems are proprietary.
I agree. Just in case, here was the DI vs Piston thread from awhile back.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=7997.0
With your budget, I'm sure you'll get something you like. IMO, get yourself a good set of irons/backup sights and a optic to sit on it and bring it to the HDF shoot :thumbsup:
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Lets argue the $600 AR vs the $3000 one again.....
I take more pride in my custom built AR than a built one.
Also many times built ones cant be changed. Some parts are proprietary.
Treat an AR like LEGOs. just change things around.as you like on a custom AR. Get bored of something, change it.
Also some $3000 guns SUCK at accuracy. (My $700 AR does 3/8" groups at 100 Yards)
BUT if youre into the name brand game....don't listen to me.
Go to the Gun Show and ask questions. Lots of vendors build custom AR's
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Thanks. I never really looked into AR's as everyone has one. As far as price I have no idea what one geos for. I just looked up Novesky and they had one for $2900 so I was assuming that was around an average price. I want one more for home defense and plinking around. I'm not going to use it for competition. I mean I want it accurate too but I don't want to have to baby it. So all manufacture AR's do not offer 5.56?
Look at LWRC before Colt buys them out....
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$3k buys a lot of AR if you get a custom one built by reputable AR gunsmiths.
I touted them many times because they are proven at the national level. They can build any type of AR you want. Great customer service.
www.whiteoakarmament.com (http://www.whiteoakarmament.com)
www.compasslake.com (http://www.compasslake.com)
http://www.accuracyspeaks.com/ (http://www.accuracyspeaks.com/)
http://www.keystoneaccuracy.com/ (http://www.keystoneaccuracy.com/)
John Holliger, owner of White Oak is not only a gunsmith but here's some of his accomplishments:
- 15 Time Presidents 100
- Distinguished Rifleman Badge (1988)
- 2000 CMP Pershing Trophy winner
- 2002 National Civilian Service Rifle Champion
- 2002 NRA Coast Artillery Trophy winner
- 2005 NRA Crescent Cup winner
- 3 Time Illinois Open Highpower Champion
- 8 Time Illinois Service Rifle Champion
- 6 Time Illinois Short Course Champion
- High Master Classification HP and Long-Range HP
- Holder of team and individual national records
Derrick Martin owner of Accuracy Speaks is also another accomplished shooter, gunsmith, Marine and Army Guardsman.
John Scandale is also a great gunsmith. He is meticulous and his service is top notch. I sent him a carry handle to be pinned and a flat top upper to be machined. I had the finished parts back in 10 days.
I've ordered barrels, uppers and other AR parts from all these vendors.
People can talk all day about what AR parts they slapped together, but when they go out, shoot their own products and win then that says something :thumbsup:
Even if you are not planning to compete, rest assured that at least you're getting proven products and service.
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All good advice so far, my answer with pictures-
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/Lifer10/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0019_zps27b619d8.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/Lifer10/media/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0019_zps27b619d8.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/Lifer10/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0099_zps7456d219.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/Lifer10/media/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0099_zps7456d219.jpg.html)
My first build and the process was awesome, don't regret a thing; BUILD :thumbsup:
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I like fun guns.
Im not worried about accuracy, hell if I can hit paper at 50 yards , Im go to go.
Then again its hard to aim with iron sights blasting away at 5 rds in 6 secs. (not rapid fire according to the RO)
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All good advice so far, my answer with pictures-
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/Lifer10/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0019_zps27b619d8.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/Lifer10/media/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0019_zps27b619d8.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/Lifer10/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0099_zps7456d219.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/Lifer10/media/Recent%20purchase/IMG_0099_zps7456d219.jpg.html)
My first build and the process as awesome, don't regret a thing; BUILD :thumbsup:
It's Frankenstein's Rifle!
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I like manufactured one, Custom AR just cost too much! O0
Noveske factory SBR on top
Colt factory SBR on bottom
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I guess it depends on what you want. I'm building a 300 blackout, with the help of my son [ some of you may know him, starts with a K ends with an A ] he's been an AR fan for a long time, I've always been more of a big bore kind of guy. He's finally convinced me that the AR platform is worth the trouble as it's light, and can be built to whatever specs I want. I'm about $1,250 into the build and just have the trigger group left as the major part purchase [ less optics ]. For that money [ since he's helping me for free ] I'm getting a custom, free floated, state of the art weapon, built to my specs, for half the price of "off the shelf" guns, that I would probably tweak to my tastes anyway. I'm getting everything I want, and nothing I don't, and if there's something I don't like, I can change it.
I guess it really depends on what you want it for, strictly for home defense, there are certainly cheaper options, especially if you don't want to mess around with tuning and whatnot. For my purposes, this is the way to go.
Jeezus, I'm turning into an AR nerd. :geekdanc:
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I like fun guns.
Im not worried about accuracy, hell if I can hit paper at 50 yards , Im go to go.
Then again its hard to aim with iron sights blasting away at 5 rds in 6 secs. (not rapid fire according to the RO)
This is two 5 round magazines shot in 60 seconds to include the mag change (NRA Rapid fire) at 200 yards. Custom gun at Puuloa.
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This is two 5 round magazines shot in 60 seconds to include the mag change (NRA Rapid fire) at 200 yards. Custom gun at Puuloa.
no one shoots like that anymore >:D
NRA National Defense Match 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPDP10kp-RQ#ws)
2013 NRA National Defense Match (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbYks8T5c1I#ws)
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I guess it depends on what you want. I'm building a 300 blackout, with the help of my son [ some of you may know him, starts with a K ends with an A ] he's been an AR fan for a long time, I've always been more of a big bore kind of guy. He's finally convinced me that the AR platform is worth the trouble as it's light, and can be built to whatever specs I want. I'm about $1,250 into the build and just have the trigger group left as the major part purchase [ less optics ]. For that money [ since he's helping me for free ] I'm getting a custom, free floated, state of the art weapon, built to my specs, for half the price of "off the shelf" guns, that I would probably tweak to my tastes anyway. I'm getting everything I want, and nothing I don't, and if there's something I don't like, I can change it.
I guess it really depends on what you want it for, strictly for home defense, there are certainly cheaper options, especially if you don't want to mess around with tuning and whatnot. For my purposes, this is the way to go.
Jeezus, I'm turning into an AR nerd. :geekdanc:
your son's name is Kendra?
:o
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This is two 5 round magazines shot in 60 seconds to include the mag change (NRA Rapid fire) at 200 yards. Custom gun at Puuloa.
My targets look like this in an afternoon. Don't think all the bullets made it to paper at 50 yrds.
Doesn't seem to have 200 holes. :D
Yee Haw
:stopjack:
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OK, I'll go with custom build. I already have a free lower that I got. I don't know what it is though. What are the components of an AR to build one? I want to research the parts I want to purchase.
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complete LPK
bolt carrier group
charging handle
tube and stock
complete upper
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Also in order what is the most important components so I can go better parts for those and maybe skimp out the rest.
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Also in order what is the most important components so I can go better parts for those and maybe skimp out the rest.
Trigger , barrel and Bolt will make a lot difference.
other items are just preference.
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Yes I still do not have an AR-15. Now it's time to start researching. Why would one custom build an AR over one they can buy? Let's say your budget is $3,000, would you be getting parts that are much better and still fit together nicely. At the same time what about warranty? Does the manufacture cover the whole rifle if a part break? If I go custom I'm assuming there is no warranty.
You can probably ignore most of what's been said. Responses often come without reading/understanding what is actually being asked...
The reason people build their own "custom" AR can vary. It can be anything from improving accuracy, personal satisfaction, or because they saw it on YouTube, etc.
Since you're still new to all of this, building your own is probably not the best choice for a first AR.
Thanks. I never really looked into AR's as everyone has one. As far as price I have no idea what one geos for. I just looked up Novesky and they had one for $2900 so I was assuming that was around an average price. I want one more for home defense and plinking around. I'm not going to use it for competition. I mean I want it accurate too but I don't want to have to baby it. So all manufacture AR's do not offer 5.56?
Any basic "off the rack" AR will fit your needs...$2900 is NOT average.
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Buy a completed upper as the upper requires special tools to assemble.
So basically, you can assemble the lower yourself with basic home tools and a small punch.
Alot of small springs and pins.
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I got a free DPMS LR-05K lower. Is this any good? Since it was free I picked the most expensive one out of the bunch.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/223556-Lower-Receiver-Stripped_p_28.html (http://www.dpmsinc.com/223556-Lower-Receiver-Stripped_p_28.html)
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I got a free DPMS LR-05K lower. Is this any good? Since it was free I picked the most expensive one out of the bunch.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/223556-Lower-Receiver-Stripped_p_28.html (http://www.dpmsinc.com/223556-Lower-Receiver-Stripped_p_28.html)
how did you get a free lower? Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW: would you really want to be throwing around and actually using a more expensive receiver? DPMS will work just fine.
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I got a free DPMS LR-05K lower. Is this any good? Since it was free I picked the most expensive one out of the bunch.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/223556-Lower-Receiver-Stripped_p_28.html (http://www.dpmsinc.com/223556-Lower-Receiver-Stripped_p_28.html)
Most forged aluminum receivers are the same. The main difference are the rollmarks.
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your son's name is Kendra?
:o
Yes, he's been asking about you, why you haven't called or sent flowers. He misses you. :-*
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Most forged aluminum receivers are the same. The main difference are the rollmarks.
For the most part I agree, but one thing I know is that I DON'T want any play (wobble) in-between my upper and lower receivers. It doesn't affect anything, but this is a personal preference. Although most receivers are basically the same, I would bet that some of the tolerances are a bit different.
Buy a completed upper as the upper requires special tools to assemble.
So basically, you can assemble the lower yourself with basic home tools and a small punch.
Alot of small springs and pins.
I would go to some LGS and put your hands on some to get a feel of what your preferences are as you may find one what fits what you want off the rack, especially with what your budget is. With that said, this is the route I would go IMO as alot of the lower components are things that you want to fit your needs ex: pistol grip (differnet size hands), trigger group (personal preferences), and stock (to get a comfortable cheek weld). Another thing you may want to consider is how long of a bbl you want. If you are looking to strictly use it for HD and plinking with a RDS of some sort, a 14.5" bbl w/ a welded muzzle device to 16" may be an option that you may want to consider.
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Yes, he's been asking about you, why you haven't called or sent flowers. He misses you. :-*
yeah, i miss "him" too
i'll see kendra this weekend and next weekend and we will make up for lost time
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how did you get a free lower? Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW: would you really want to be throwing around and actually using a more expensive receiver? DPMS will work just fine.
It was a deal at OGC. Buy so much and pick a free lower. It's been registered but sitting for over 6 months.