2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: kekoa on April 07, 2014, 05:51:55 AM
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I have been considering the purchase of an AR15, is the gas piston or direct impingement systems any better than the other? Reliability would be important of course, with that said, I would probably clean the AR after ever shoot. Just wondering if any of the theories or myths that I have been reading about are true regarding the two different systems.
Thanks for your knowledge and helping me to make a good choice for and AR operating system. :shaka:
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Read this: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_128/638178_AR15_Basics_forum_FAQ.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_128/638178_AR15_Basics_forum_FAQ.html) and http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=493 (http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=493)
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A wise gunsmith told me.... gas systems are very proprietary and unique to each brand. While DI is universally the same build. So in many years if you need to rebuild or repair its much easier to find DI parts vs piston. Who knows if piston parts will be around vs the mass quantity of DI parts.
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I personally feel DI is just fine for ARs. Contrary to popular belief, DI guns don't have to be squeaky clean to run smoothly, but they should be run adequately lubed. I only clean my gun every 500 rounds or so, and I could probably go longer and be just fine. Most AR malfunctions boil down to bad ammo, weak extractor spring, bad magazines or not enough lube. In theory, DI guns will be a hair more accurate as well.
As far as piston guns go, I don't have a problem with piston guns that are built from the ground up. Guns like AKs, SIgs, Scars etc... are all fantastic guns. But I feel when you try to adapt a system designed for DI to use a piston system, it just doesn't meld as well. The propriety parts will tend to get annoying down the line. For instance, my dad owns a PWS piston gun, and had to pay $330 just for a new BCG, and had to order from the direct manufacturer. If you do decide to get a piston gun, don't opt for one of the cheaper ones. Carrier tilt can still be a problem. You will want to go with a higher end one, such as the 416, lwrc, or pws.
My vote is to stick with a DI gun. Make sure you always shoot it lubed. Stick to something milspec, and if extraction is an issue, be prepared to order a new extractor for all of $5.
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I've had both. Neither gave me any problems. Piston was a lot easier to clean.
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jzwY1Tfs3kc/UgPknm53VdI/AAAAAAAAAmk/eIHv70j2FDo/s1600/dontbelievethehype.jpg)
It is your money, and your final decision to make, but I agree with Bigkahuna... DI should be more than adequate for most recreational shooters.
Good luck with the decision, and post pics of the new addition to your family when it arrives! :shaka:
Raja dat! DI is a little lighter, by weight, system too I have read. Has to be a good thing right?
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You could always build a poor mans piston "ar" using a saiga ak in 223/556. Unlike the piston are the parts are available. Just wont be a traditional ar but will be very reliable
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If you're willing to spend the money, then the LWRC M6 is a piston driven beast.
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DI and get yourself a nickel boron coated BCG, my son sold me on this by pulling his out of the gun he rarely cleans and wiping it off with a damp towel. It shined like it was brand new in about 30 seconds. Picked one up for my build.
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DI and get yourself a nickel boron coated BCG, my son sold me on this by pulling his out of the gun he rarely cleans and wiping it off with a damp towel. It shined like it was brand new in about 30 seconds. Picked one up for my build.
:popcorn:
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I've good things about the fail zero bolts, and a few "meh" things about them. Somewhere I think I read someone had issues with it until he changed his buffer spring, not sure if it was actually the bolt causing the problems though.
I still think good lube is key to performance.
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DI and get yourself a nickel boron coated BCG, my son sold me on this by pulling his out of the gun he rarely cleans and wiping it off with a damp towel. It shined like it was brand new in about 30 seconds. Picked one up for my build.
kendra gives good demos
:thumbsup:
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I've good things about the fail zero bolts, and a few "meh" things about them. Somewhere I think I read someone had issues with it until he changed his buffer spring, not sure if it was actually the bolt causing the problems though.
I still think good lube is key to performance.
Yeah, everyone likes good lube, wouldn't want to run it up in there dry. ;)
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The bolt carrier should not touch anything. maybe just a bit on the top where the gas key is.
The Bolt does need to be lubed and the firing pin.
I been testing the new chrome Teflon coated buffer springs and they seem to be smoother.
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I have been considering the purchase of an AR15, is the gas piston or direct impingement systems any better than the other? Reliability would be important of course, with that said, I would probably clean the AR after ever shoot. Just wondering if any of the theories or myths that I have been reading about are true regarding the two different systems.
Thanks for your knowledge and helping me to make a good choice for and AR operating system. :shaka:
why not just build a lower and buy two uppers. then either sell the one you don't like or keep the other as a back up. they are cheap now a days, its not like its gonna run you 3k for an upper like it was a year and a half ago (unless your planning on buying expensive).
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why not just build a lower and buy two uppers. then either sell the one you don't like or keep the other as a back up. they are cheap now a days, its not like its gonna run you 3k for an upper like it was a year and a half ago (unless your planning on buying expensive).
Never have built an AR or any firearm for that matter. Maybe it is a good time to learn how. Is it very difficult to do?
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Gas piston is the ONLY way to go. All REAL guns have gas pistons. Direct impingement is doo-doo. Not only will it explode in your face every single time you pull the trigger (even when the gun isn't loaded!!), but it causes genital warts, herpes, and Liberalism. Obama would rather take your direct impingement away from you because he likes it better. Don't be a herpetic cankerous libby. Support the Constitution and buy gas piston.
...gas piston recoil systems are so far superior to direct impingement recoil systems that the latter shouldn't even be called a recoil system. 'Mule dung' would be a more appropriate moniker.
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Tom_G, you're killin' me !
(Coffee on keyboard due to laughter)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
This one goes in Classic 2A member quotes.
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Shoot other peoples guns and use their ammo and just think when you get home how it was.
Then think about that youre not the one having to clean the gun!
Just built a 762x39 piston carbine for a customer. way smoother than my DI gun. Carbine Gas tube length on a DI 762x39 is very brutal.
I used a Adams Arms conversion.
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Gas piston is the ONLY way to go. All REAL guns have gas pistons. Direct impingement is doo-doo. Not only will it explode in your face every single time you pull the trigger (even when the gun isn't loaded!!), but it causes genital warts, herpes, and Liberalism. Obama would rather take your direct impingement away from you because he likes it better. Don't be a herpetic cankerous libby. Support the Constitution and buy gas piston.
This is the very reason I only shoot AKs. AKs have only been shown to cause moderate gassiness and the ocassional UTI which usually clears up with a squirt of Barrisol.
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DI and get yourself a nickel boron coated BCG, my son sold me on this by pulling his out of the gun he rarely cleans and wiping it off with a damp towel. It shined like it was brand new in about 30 seconds. Picked one up for my build.
ive also been trying this out. after using strong cleaners and scraping clean a phosphated bcg i was over it. bought the first reasonably priced nickel boron bcg (thx abakja :shaka:)
the nickel wipes clean as long as you put minimal/no lube. even when carbon builds up on the bolt it brushes off much easier. no need for those carbon scraping tools as long as you dont let it go for 2k+ between cleaning.
with all that said i still prefer shooting my gas piston sig 556.
its even easier to clean than a DI ar15 with a nickel bcg, plus the recoil impulse from the rifle length gas system is softer. i think my carbine length ar barrel has a slightly enlarged gas port that doesnt help. its a little jumpy and i need/want to buy a syrac adjustable gas block and a JP buffer spring system. a mid length properly tuned 16" probably shoots twice as smooth as my current setup.
i vote for gas piston if you can afford a quality one, but i also think everyone should have at least 1 DI ar15 though. cheaper,lighter and easier to swap parts and find replacements.
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A regular AR15/M16 system has a piston in it.
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Never have built an AR or any firearm for that matter. Maybe it is a good time to learn how. Is it very difficult to do?
its easy. (youtube is your friend)
if its over your head, just buy a full ar15 of one and an upper of the other and you can swap them out easily by pushing out the retaining pins.
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+1
Assembling an AR from scratch is a good way to learn the AR-15 system.
You can get a complete AR15 kit (plus a stripped lower receiver) from a reputable source. Watch videos on Youtube for assembling a complete lower.
I suggest buying an assembled upper and just attach it to the lower you assemble. You'll need more specific tools to assemble an upper. When you are more comfortable and familiar with your AR, then you can look at building your own upper from scratch.
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I may just give it a go. What reputable source would you recommend for the kit. How does the permitting thing work for a home build?
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You'll still need to purchase a stripped lower receiver and get it registered with HPD.
There are many places to find a decent kit. Palmetto State Armory has decent and inexpensive builds. I'm sure the others here have their favorites for some of the more quality builds?
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I may just give it a go. What reputable source would you recommend for the kit. How does the permitting thing work for a home build?
the lower parts kits are all basically the same, just gotta find a lower (50-300 bucks, they are all basically the same and should work fine if they are with in spec) you like and reg it with HPD just like you would a long gun or make one out of an 80%. should take you about 30 mins or less the first time. its easy and fun to do. ask someone or find a build party. Hell bring it to the range with you and ask people if they can show you how to do it while waiting for a bench, chances are someone there will know how to do it. its really not that hard. The hardest thing is to figure out which trigger you want to install as well as what stock you want to buy for the lower.
you could have bought and easily made a plastic 80% from ares armor before they got raided and used a hand drill and a dremel to finish it :shake:.
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Gas piston is the ONLY way to go. All REAL guns have gas pistons. Direct impingement is doo-doo. Not only will it explode in your face every single time you pull the trigger (even when the gun isn't loaded!!), but it causes genital warts, herpes, and Liberalism. Obama would rather take your direct impingement away from you because he likes it better. Don't be a herpetic cankerous libby. Support the Constitution and buy gas piston.
:rofl:
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The bolt carrier should not touch anything. maybe just a bit on the top where the gas key is.
The Bolt does need to be lubed and the firing pin.
I been testing the new chrome Teflon coated buffer springs and they seem to be smoother.
Dex, what lube is best? Just regular gun oil or….
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Try this,
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When new I use grease on the bolt where it may contact the receiver and the hammer. After break in I use light oil. Also light oil in the firing pin and bolt lugs.
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You'll still need to purchase a stripped lower receiver and get it registered with HPD.
There are many places to find a decent kit. Palmetto State Armory has decent and inexpensive builds. I'm sure the others here have their favorites for some of the more quality builds?
Does PSA ship to Hawaii? I recall there being no option to select Hawaii in the drop down menu when you checkout.
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When new I use grease on the bolt where it may contact the receiver and the hammer. After break in I use light oil. Also light oil in the firing pin and bolt lugs.
Thank you sir :thumbsup:
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Kekoa,
If you're unsure where to lube, this should answer all your questions:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_7/548967_AR15_LUBE_POINTS.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_7/548967_AR15_LUBE_POINTS.html)
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Does PSA ship to Hawaii? I recall there being no option to select Hawaii in the drop down menu when you checkout.
I asked them before and they said to select the California option and then just put in your address and it should do something automatically. Personally it just didn't sit right with me and because they don't take paypal, I don't buy from them. I mean who the hell can't put a Hawaii drop down in a menu for shipping in this day and age when shipping stuff and if you are gonna buy possibly thousands of dollars worth of stuff from them at once, I question how legit they are. when they fix it, I'll perhaps buy from them.
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I asked them before and they said to select the California option and then just put in your address and it should do something automatically. Personally it just didn't sit right with me and because they don't take paypal, I don't buy from them. I mean who the hell can't put a Hawaii drop down in a menu for shipping in this day and age when shipping stuff and if you are gonna buy possibly thousands of dollars worth of stuff from them at once, I question how legit they are. when they fix it, I'll perhaps buy from them.
For the record, I've ordered a stripped lower, a full upper, 3 LPKs, 1 UPK, a Blackout flash hider, 2 heavy buffers, an AR stock kit, and assorted small AR-15 parts. 9 orders for the last 12 months, & always select Alaska in shipping addr. I got free shipping when offered, too.
I visited the PSA store & range in Columbia. Very modern, clean indoor range.
So, unless you have evidence to the contrary, I would argue PSA is a lot more than "legit".
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Back in the 90's when I could shoot 1k plus rounds in one range outing; I think piston would be an obvious option. But in 2014 shooting ~500rds or less in a range session, I'll stick with DI and just use the money saved on DI for more ammo.
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For the record, I've ordered a stripped lower, a full upper, 3 LPKs, 1 UPK, a Blackout flash hider, 2 heavy buffers, an AR stock kit, and assorted small AR-15 parts. 9 orders for the last 12 months, & always select Alaska in shipping addr. I got free shipping when offered, too.
I visited the PSA store & range in Columbia. Very modern, clean indoor range.
So, unless you have evidence to the contrary, I would argue PSA is a lot more than "legit".
Thanks, I see they have really good deals from time to time but always just figured they didn't ship here. I sent them an email and will try the Alaska option if they don't fix it.