2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Inspector on August 13, 2014, 06:50:02 PM

Title: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Inspector on August 13, 2014, 06:50:02 PM
I just heard there is a nasty change for the rifle range. From what I was told there will be no gongs allowed at all at any distance. No targets whatsoever at 50yds. And at 100 rounds only wood frames and paper targets. No hanging items like golf balls, no bowling pins, and no plastic gong type targets at all. I believe this means no self sealing targets as well. But check with the range before assuming anything other than wood frames and paper targets at 100yds only are allowed. Some of this may or may not change. My source says this is straight from Mike's mouth.

Apparently last Sunday a couple of hikers on the illegal trail behind the range reported hearing ricochets.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Jphilly on August 13, 2014, 07:07:47 PM
Gave them the inch here comes the mile
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: GreenStomper on August 13, 2014, 07:30:46 PM
We have to conform just because people are hearing things...
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: BigBlue on August 13, 2014, 07:31:55 PM
Totally ridiculous. Not surprised though; expect more bad things to come down the pipe.

Short of a lawsuit I don't see how it will get any better.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: one2boost on August 13, 2014, 07:45:13 PM
Wow, that sucks.  Maybe set up a few gopros up there to diminish one's story.  Oops I forgot, this is Hawaii...
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Heavies on August 13, 2014, 10:12:17 PM
Kokohead rifle range is going to be shut down sooner or later.  That is why we need to PUSH for a new range at some other location. 
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Heavies on August 13, 2014, 10:17:33 PM
I don't understand, with the amount of shooters that actively use this facility, why is it that whenever some bullshit unfounded story comes out, we have to suffer with more infringement!  Is it that all these people don't give a f*ck that this is the only public range on Oahu?  Also, the only public place you can actually exercise your 2nd Amendment RIGHTS!   

The last time, we had many writers of letters, but not near as many letters as there are shooters at Kokohead.  WTF is going on? ???   
 :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: dirsh on August 13, 2014, 11:06:57 PM
(http://www.memegenerator.es/imagenes/memes/53/5954334.jpg)
Title: .
Post by: Q on August 13, 2014, 11:22:50 PM
.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: macsak on August 14, 2014, 12:46:25 AM
I just heard there is a nasty change for the rifle range. From what I was told there will be no gongs allowed at all at any distance. No targets whatsoever at 50yds. And at 100 rounds only wood frames and paper targets. No hanging items like golf balls, no bowling pins, and no plastic gong type targets at all. I believe this means no self sealing targets as well. But check with the range before assuming anything other than wood frames and paper targets at 100yds only are allowed. Some of this may or may not change. My source says this is straight from Mike's mouth.

Apparently last Sunday a couple of hikers on the illegal trail behind the range reported hearing ricochets.

see tyler durden
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: jonjon on August 14, 2014, 04:15:18 AM
see tyler durden

Fight Club?
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: ren on August 14, 2014, 04:25:50 AM
Part of an overarching strategy  :grrr:
logical in a state where a non sanctioned trail, somewhat illegal, costly (rescues) stands in precedence over a legal, City range where we exercise our 2A rights. We should be all upset.
Big question is if these complaints are legitimate?! ???
I understand Mike's position as he is trying to protect the range against overbearing libs.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Heavies on August 14, 2014, 06:20:21 AM
So, What does this mean for .22lr users? Silhouette club shooters?   Does anyone have first hand confirmation on this yet?
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Mr. Farknocker on August 14, 2014, 07:07:34 AM
Ask Marumoto who is making these decisions so firearms enthusiast may take their concerns and opinions directly to the person responsible.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Zaytsev2013 on August 14, 2014, 07:14:13 AM
In FY 2012 the State of Hawaii received more than $2-million in Pittman-Robertson fund monies. This is money derived from taxes on the sale of firearms, ammo and I believe related accessories. Along with being used for wildlife habitat restoration and hunter safety programs, funds can also be used to develop public shooting ranges. This may be a good source for seed money to build a new range.  There is a 25% matching requirement.

http://www.fws.gov/budget/2013/PDF%20Files%20FY%202013%20Greenbook/24.%20Wildlife%20Restoration.pdf
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: progun on August 14, 2014, 09:42:44 AM
In FY 2012 the State of Hawaii received more than $2-million in Pittman-Robertson fund monies. This is money derived from taxes on the sale of firearms, ammo and I believe related accessories. Along with being used for wildlife habitat restoration and hunter safety programs, funds can also be used to develop public shooting ranges. This may be a good source for seed money to build a new range.  There is a 25% matching requirement.

http://www.fws.gov/budget/2013/PDF%20Files%20FY%202013%20Greenbook/24.%20Wildlife%20Restoration.pdf (http://www.fws.gov/budget/2013/PDF%20Files%20FY%202013%20Greenbook/24.%20Wildlife%20Restoration.pdf)
If memory serves me correctly an initiative by Tom Berg (correct person) tried to open a range at the old Barbers Point Military Range. Would have been contactor run and offered some nice long range shooting. Guess it died when Berg lost his seat or in some liberal committee. I understand that Muramoto has to make instant decisions to ensure the safety of the range and surrounding area BUT it seems to me the problem is not the type or range of the targets it's fools using the illegal trail, but all it takes is one injury or death due to a ricochets. What puzzles me is no 50 yard targets? WTF? Knee jerk reaction and a stupid decision. remedy is simple...... dig out up to the 50 yard line and creast a small berm, small target stands that do not require metal pipes driven into the ground and stand no higher that the berm beshind them. This was 100 yard shooter can shoot over the 50 yard berm and 50 yard shooters will have a place to shoot BUT close down the illegal trail as well and arrest ANYONE caught on it. Sadly though, Koko head is going to be shut down in the near future and it will be a long time before another range, if we are lucky, will be designated. we'll have our guns but no where to shoot them........
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: BigBlue on August 14, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
What's puzzling is why we have guards at stairway to heaven but not Koko Head
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Heavies on August 14, 2014, 10:48:57 AM
I hope you all think about this when it is time to vote.  These are the things they chip away at until your rights are destroyed.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: s197 on August 14, 2014, 11:10:18 AM
I'm not understanding taking the 50-yard mark away as well.  Assuming we're all shooting at the same type of target (wood frame, paper target) how does 50-yards produce more ricochet?  When they say ricochet, are they worried about the shooters or the illegal hikers?  It seems like if they took away the 50-yard mark, it's the shooters.

Is there some way we can be proactive on this, someone we can write, etc?
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: ImKu on August 14, 2014, 12:43:57 PM
I'm not understanding taking the 50-yard mark away as well.  Assuming we're all shooting at the same type of target (wood frame, paper target) how does 50-yards produce more ricochet?  When they say ricochet, are they worried about the shooters or the illegal hikers?  It seems like if they took away the 50-yard mark, it's the shooters.

Is there some way we can be proactive on this, someone we can write, etc?

From what I recall, the last time we had to change the rules there was talk about ricochets off of the dirt...
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: BigBlue on August 14, 2014, 12:45:16 PM
I'm not understanding taking the 50-yard mark away as well.  Assuming we're all shooting at the same type of target (wood frame, paper target) how does 50-yards produce more ricochet?  When they say ricochet, are they worried about the shooters or the illegal hikers?  It seems like if they took away the 50-yard mark, it's the shooters.

Is there some way we can be proactive on this, someone we can write, etc?

There's some logic behind it actually.

Particularly lighter bullets will deflect more, and a same-angle deflection further from the backstop will result in greater overall deflection. Simple trig.

A 10 degree vertical deflection at 50 meters, would rise 8 meters, the same 10 degrees at 100 meters would be 17 meters.
As the deflection angle and distance increases so of course will the absolute deflection. Essentially with enough deflection (ignoring the loss of energy in the ricochet), the closer to the shooting bench the deflection, the greater the risk of you overcoming your backstop.

That said, I'm skeptical the 50m is based on any real analysis; I suspect it's just a quick 'do something' measure. I could do a detailed analysis if anyone's interested.

(Calculations ignoring gravity/air resistance, assuming perfectly flat trajectory).
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: causa mortis on August 14, 2014, 12:45:23 PM
So, because some illegal trespassers claimed to hear ricochets, we, the law abiding citizens have to accommodate them. Interesting.

Here's a novel idea: close the fucking ILLEGAL trail and these morons won't have to worry about ricochets.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: BigBlue on August 14, 2014, 12:48:31 PM
So, because some illegal trespassers claimed to hear ricochets, we, the law abiding citizens have to accommodate them. Interesting.

Here's a novel idea: close the fucking ILLEGAL trail and these morons won't have to worry about ricochets.

That's what's fascinating. The Stairway to Heaven is closed because of liability issues yet the Koko Head trail is not.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Heavies on August 14, 2014, 12:54:42 PM
In discussion of previous range closure it had been discussed.  IMO, the only way is to either build a new range in a location that would be conducive to using rifles without projectiles leaving the facility,  or a complete redesign and refubishmentbof the current location.   The problem with opinion two is that the ranges max limit of 100 yards is not really too practical for rifle shooting.  A rifle range with 25 thru 1000 yards would be solid to rifle fire. 
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: ren on August 14, 2014, 12:55:12 PM
This sounds like the border issue...illegal immigrant rights...illegal hikers' complaints about a legal activity down under
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: BigBlue on August 14, 2014, 12:57:32 PM
There are plenty of great rifle ranges here; they just all happen to be run by the military.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: causa mortis on August 14, 2014, 12:57:54 PM
Kokohead rifle range is going to be shut down sooner or later.  That is why we need to PUSH for a new range at some other location.

I agree. Where would the new range be located, though?

From what I seen, a great possible location would be off of Farington Hwy. in the Makaiwa or Keone'Oio Gulch area.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: aieahound on August 14, 2014, 01:07:34 PM
Has anyone confirmed first hand that these new restrictions are in place ? ( especially no 50 yard targets )

Someone had to go to the range yesterday or today.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Aiea78 on August 14, 2014, 01:35:15 PM
I agree. Where would the new range be located, though?

From what I seen, a great possible location would be off of Farington Hwy. in the Makaiwa or Keone'Oio Gulch area.

maybe landfill area?  would be consistent with anti-gun opinions of us. 
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: dustoff003 on August 14, 2014, 01:40:12 PM

maybe landfill area?  would be consistent with anti-gun opinions of us.

I will trade GK and the antis the Waimanalo Gulch landfill (ironically not in Waimanalo) for KHSC.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: causa mortis on August 14, 2014, 01:54:08 PM
maybe landfill area?  would be consistent with anti-gun opinions of us.

That's funny, but if you look at the terrain of the area, it would suitable. You have the mountains as a natural backstop and you could have the range extend to easily over 500 yards. Also, there's virtually no one around.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: BigBlue on August 14, 2014, 02:01:25 PM
If the area was capped off, replanted + landscaped, etc.. then actually it would be perfect since it probably wouldn't be suitable for building construction,. Once all that is done properly, it's not like it's going to smell bad or anything. It's a very sensible use of land.

Only problem is it depends on a suitable replacement landfill site being found which has been on hiatus for years (NIMBY).
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: progun on August 14, 2014, 02:58:27 PM
FWIW I just got off the phone with Parks and Recreation  East @ 15:45 concerning the restrictions. There are no restrictions for paper targets @ 50 or 100 yards however metallic targets are not permitted @ 50 or 100 for the time being. I told them that word on the street is that 2 hikers on an illegal trail complained about ricochetts and all 50 yard shooting is banned including paper, metallic and reactive metallic targets. They said this was an on-the-spot decision and it has since been determined that paper targets @ 50 will be fine. They are also looking into the continued use of targets other than paper. When asked what they intend to do about the illegal trail I was told they are investigating why is is still being used.

Suggest you start calling the Parks and Recreation East office to keep them on their toes about getting this straightend out. Their number is 373-8013. You might be aasked to leave a message, I did @ 9am and left a message but received no response until I call later on this afternoon...... :shake: :shake:
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: dirsh on August 14, 2014, 04:43:32 PM
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53548115.jpg)

Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: macsak on August 14, 2014, 04:45:52 PM
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53548115.jpg)

see my new thread...

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=16063.0
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: progun on August 14, 2014, 05:54:37 PM
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53548115.jpg)
Just passing along what I was told by the C&C. Have a really nice day. Gokigenjo!
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Gordyf on August 18, 2014, 09:14:24 AM
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53548115.jpg)

Was one of these" hikers", the ones that heard a ricochet, perchance named Knudsen???
Inquiring minds want to know
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: Inspector on August 24, 2014, 09:36:54 AM
All restrictions are off. Shooting steel at 50 and 100 today.
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: wirecounter on August 24, 2014, 01:56:33 PM
All restrictions are off. Shooting steel at 50 and 100 today.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: dirsh on August 24, 2014, 05:35:38 PM
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53548115.jpg)

This was for these a holes making up stories about boolits whizing by
Title: Re: New Restrictive Rifle Range Rules
Post by: korupt on August 24, 2014, 08:45:54 PM
You know what might be a big conspiracy you think about it, we can buy all the guns we can have but not shoot our guns at the range its like someones telling everyone to stop buying guns because theres no place to shoot it sound right, and the people buying guns will think whats the use in buying a gun if you have nowhere to shoot it. Makes you think huh? I sound like a politicion but sometimes you gotta think like that because thats how these people who goes against gun think keep that in mind