2aHawaii

General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Funtimes on July 11, 2011, 06:07:55 PM

Title: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Funtimes on July 11, 2011, 06:07:55 PM
The .223 rounds are now classifed as pistol ammunition by the BATFE. This obviously means that if the cartridge is used in pistols, then the magazines that are associated with it are also used (may be used, capable of use) inside of a pistol.
Proceed with caution in the near future when using >10 round magazines in these calibers.  Take it for what it's worth. ::)

For more information see:

 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2011/07/11/reclassification-of-223-6-5-grendel-and-6-8-spc/ (http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2011/07/11/reclassification-of-223-6-5-grendel-and-6-8-spc/)

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/BATF-Classifies-223-65-t106361.html&pid=1496491#entry1496491 (http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/BATF-Classifies-223-65-t106361.html&pid=1496491#entry1496491)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=454395 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=454395)
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: AWS-GTAW on July 11, 2011, 06:16:41 PM
how about 5.56?
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: vooduchikn on July 11, 2011, 06:28:47 PM
how about 5.56?

 ;D
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Tom_G on July 11, 2011, 09:50:20 PM
Well, this doesn't really change anything for those of us in Hawaii.  Magazines >10 rounds are, and have been, illegal on both .223 and 5.56,  The fact that HPD is turning a blind eye at the moment isn't likely to change with this ruling, but then again, IANAL.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Funtimes on July 11, 2011, 10:16:38 PM
Well, this doesn't really change anything for those of us in Hawaii.  Magazines >10 rounds are, and have been, illegal on both .223 and 5.56,  The fact that HPD is turning a blind eye at the moment isn't likely to change with this ruling, but then again, IANAL.

We had some that refute our position, but now, the BATFE calls it a pistol round.... kind of clears it all up at this point :).  Just wanting people to kind of wake up, pay attention, and not get into trouble without really "knowing" they could be breaking the law.

how about 5.56?

It's probably on the way, they are using the same language as our statutes here:  "may be used"
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: flaboy808 on July 11, 2011, 10:59:38 PM
Wait, just to clarify.  Aren't they saying that "...the solid copper bullets he (Elite Ammunition) makes is classsified as pistol ammunition.  The regular lead core bullets you and I shoot are not part of this determination."?



Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Funtimes on July 11, 2011, 11:03:24 PM
No, they are saying that .223 is pistol ammunition.  Pistol ammunition had different requirements of the metallurgy that composed "armor piercing."  Meaning, as a rifle round, elite was skirting the law -- as a pistol round, they got raided by ATF Swat Team for having armor piercing handgun ammunition.  The reason is the their metals structure constituted brass core, which is a no-no in handgun ammunition.  Because most steel core is not fully steel i.e. SS109 .223 rounds (there is lead included) it doesn't fall under the armor piercing handgun round. So, at least for now, that round should be safe.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: vooduchikn on July 12, 2011, 07:35:53 AM
Can't wait to leave this place.... ::)
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Funtimes on July 12, 2011, 07:39:14 AM
Eh this is going to mess with lots of ammo manufacturing I think. It also shows how gun control can be "under the radar" just by the ATF making up some bullcrap rules.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: vooduchikn on July 12, 2011, 07:57:59 AM
Eh this is going to mess with lots of ammo manufacturing I think. It also shows how gun control can be "under the radar" just by the ATF making up some bullcrap rules.

I think you will see a battle from someone on this issue. Next will be 7.62 ammo that goes in AK pistols.

Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: 2aHawaii on July 12, 2011, 09:38:37 AM
What I've heard is that 7.62x39 already fell under that ruling and people are hoping that 5.45x39 doesn't.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: HiCarry on July 12, 2011, 10:20:47 AM
I think the ruling (and I only know what I have read here...) sucks. But, maybe we can use it to our advantage. Remember, the antis always say those evil black "assault weapons" are high powered killing devices that shouldn't be in the hands of ordinary citizens. But, if the ammo is "handgun" ammo, how then can it be used in a "high powered" rifle?
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Cougar8045 on July 12, 2011, 11:28:36 AM
I think the ruling (and I only know what I have read here...) sucks. But, maybe we can use it to our advantage. Remember, the antis always say those evil black "assault weapons" are high powered killing devices that shouldn't be in the hands of ordinary citizens. But, if the ammo is "handgun" ammo, how then can it be used in a "high powered" rifle?
They'll claim that us bible-, gun-clinging nutjobs are making high powered assault rifles in concealable pistol form!
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: BananaClip on July 12, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
"Warning! According to the EFTAB, DOGS are now called CATS and CATS called DOGS!"  :crazy:
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: BananaClip on July 12, 2011, 01:33:58 PM
So basically, they can call a Wrench, a Bazooka. That would suck if all of a sudden I couldn't use my Bazooka for work..... :'(
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Cougar8045 on July 15, 2011, 08:21:45 AM
Does anybody know what the penalty is for possessing a 30-round magazine?  I know it's illegal, but HPD is turning a blind eye, and possession of a magazine such as an 30-round AR mag is only a misdemeanor as long as it's not inserted in a pistol.  So, say I decided to take advantage of HPD's good graces and use 30 round magazines in an AR.  What kind of penalties would I be looking at if the benevolence suddenly came to an end and I got written up for having them?
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Funtimes on July 15, 2011, 10:45:35 AM
Misdemeanor is up to 1 yr  -- Felony is over 1 yr.   Not likely penalties though, but that is the max.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: HiCarry on July 15, 2011, 11:56:21 AM
misdemeanor for possession; felony if inserted into a pistol.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Cougar8045 on July 15, 2011, 12:30:42 PM
Interesting.  Well, I'm certainly not willing to do time over it.  I'd go for it if the penalty was a fine, but I'm just too pretty for prison! :rofl:
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: AWS-GTAW on July 15, 2011, 01:14:16 PM
so its illegal to load 10 rounds into a 30 round mag and use it on the rifle side?   
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Cougar8045 on July 15, 2011, 01:19:57 PM
so its illegal to load 10 rounds into a 30 round mag and use it on the rifle side?
Possession of a detachable magazine designed for or capable of being inserted in a pistol is a midemeanor.  Having it actually inserted in a pistol is a felony, and of course the powers that be consider AR magazines to fit that description.  I'm told that HPD turns a blind eye to guys with 30-round magazines, but I'm not willing to risk it if it could involve me going to prison.  Does anybody know if Ruger 10/22 magazines can be inserted in a pistol?  If not, I guess I'd better go get a 50 round drum for mine, just on principle.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Dregs on July 15, 2011, 02:19:33 PM
so its illegal to load 10 rounds into a 30 round mag and use it on the rifle side?
I'm told that HPD turns a blind eye to guys with 30-round magazines, but I'm not willing to risk it if it could involve me going to prison.

Great. Now we just need to make a plethora of more laws to convince criminals to feel the same way and abide by, umm, the law.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: 2aHawaii on July 15, 2011, 03:00:02 PM
Does anybody know if Ruger 10/22 magazines can be inserted in a pistol?  If not, I guess I'd better go get a 50 round drum for mine, just on principle.

Yes, they insert quite nicely into the Ruger Charger and their variants.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Funtimes on July 15, 2011, 03:34:32 PM
so its illegal to load 10 rounds into a 30 round mag and use it on the rifle side?

The magazine "should" be blocked off; it's very unlikely anyone is going to say *anything* at all -- we just don't want people blindsided if they someone does say something about it.

There is nothing illegal about 30 , 40, 100 rounds in a rifle. However, that magazine cannot be capable of use in a 'pistol' -  AR-15's are in use with pistols (AR-15 pistols...) and their ammunition is classifed as Handgun ammunition.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Antithesis on July 15, 2011, 03:56:17 PM
Does anybody know if Ruger 10/22 magazines can be inserted in a pistol?  If not, I guess I'd better go get a 50 round drum for mine, just on principle.

Yeah the 10/22 Charger is considered a pistol, so the same rules apply as tha Ar-15.  On a related note, if you plan on getting high capacity magazines for the 10/22, Ruger just came out with 25 round banana-style magazines.  From what I've read they're pretty awesome. 
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: 230RN on July 17, 2011, 02:37:37 AM
"Warning! According to the EFTAB, DOGS are now called CATS and CATS called DOGS!"

Quote

Freedom is slavery
War is peace
Ignorance is strength

"1984," By George Orwell


I does bleeve that almost any "rifle" round can be, and most were, chambered in Thompson Contender pistols.

But this new ruling is obviously for the good of the children Good of The Children.

(Correction applied, with thanks to Cougar8045 --see below.)




Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: HiCarry on July 18, 2011, 09:41:08 AM
And remember, Hawaii law defines pistol as any gun with a barrel less than 16 inches.....
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Cougar8045 on July 18, 2011, 11:10:09 AM
"Warning! According to the EFTAB, DOGS are now called CATS and CATS called DOGS!"

Quote

Freedom is slavery
War is peace
Ignorance is strength

"1984," By George Orwell


I does bleeve that almost any "rifle" round can be, and most were, chambered in Thompson Contender pistols.

But this new ruling is obviously for the good of the children.
When referencing The Children (tm), please make sure to observe proper capitalization and trademark recognition.  Thanks.  /sarc

And I'm pretty sure my old man's TC has a .243 barrel.  I guess you've got to be using some weird caliber like an Ackley improved case in order to not be shooting pistol ammunition out here.
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: 230RN on July 19, 2011, 06:06:37 PM
^  Correction applied, and thanks.  Stupid of me.

(http://www.philebrity.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/helenlovejoy.jpg)




(Pic credit in properties.)
Title: Re: *WARNING* Use of 30 Round AR-15 Could lead to problems.
Post by: Cougar8045 on July 19, 2011, 06:19:41 PM
I actually laughed out loud at that pic.  Good one!