2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mr. Farknocker on October 04, 2014, 10:27:43 AM
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Just saw this vid. Anybidy know if this product is on the market yet?
http://youtu.be/GrGjIHAq-J4
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Its looks like it cost about $2.00 a round.
http://www.strictlyammo.com/g2r-9mm-rip-ammo-95-grain-20-rou299520.html (http://www.strictlyammo.com/g2r-9mm-rip-ammo-95-grain-20-rou299520.html)
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I wonder if these are considered illegal in Hawaii ?
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I wonder if these are considered illegal in Hawaii ?
Why wouldn't they be legal?
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Was it really necessary to use the "N" reference in the ad? Legality in Hawaii is wether or not they are considered to be "frangible" .
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Was it really necessary to use the "N" reference in the ad? Legality in Hawaii is wether or not they are considered to be "frangible" .
That isn't part of the ad. It's the title the YouTube user who posted the video added.
O0
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looks like a surgeons nightmare.
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Really nasty looking projectile, wonder how accurate it shoots? Not a marketing scheme, anyone knows penetration depth before & after impact. Big brother is getting crazy on monolithic pistol and rifle bullet designs. Barnes stop selling Spitzer solids from .243 & up. Big brother says it's a armor piercing, projos under review. Check out Barnes website for info & updates.
Can only imagine more bans on monolithic pistol projos.
Would like to see rifled shotgun slug, now that would part the red sea.
Hate to go to court if you had to use those for HD. Old Black Talons were bad enough, Winchester still markets ammo under Ranger line without black coating.
Anybody thoughts or got more info on these or other monolithic/frag bullets?
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Really nasty looking projectile...
Hate to go to court if you had to use those for HD. Old Black Talons were bad enough, Winchester still markets ammo under Ranger line without black coating.
Anybody thoughts or got more info on these or other monolithic/frag bullets?
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As you mentioned above and I have constantly preached, legal defense is a big consideration.
This round is absolutely not defensible in court. You might win the gunfight, but the victim and family will take you for everything you own.
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Ballistics test aren't very good for it
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If one piece breaks off in the barrel you'll get a shredded barrel if not an explosion in your face. A bullet is once piece coming out the barrel this bullet had too much factors that can break or damage your barrel, Its like a lawsuit waiting to happen, as for availability I'm still looking for .22 bullets who in here is hording the .22 bullets. It's a conspiracy to keep cheep ass people like me from going cheap instead of buying 556 bullets LOL
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I'm still looking for .22 bullets who in here is hording the .22 bullets. It's a conspiracy to keep cheep ass people like me from going cheap instead of buying 556 bullets LOL
One man's "hoarding" is another man's "buying a few thousand rounds whenever it's available" !!
I have just under 17K rounds of .22LR in a variety of brands. That comes out to about 1,900 rounds per .22LR firearm I own.
That's not hoarding. That's "almost enough"!!
>:D
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As you mentioned above and I have constantly preached, legal defense is a big consideration.
This round is absolutely not defensible in court. You might win the gunfight, but the victim and family will take you for everything you own.
I've heard people mentioning from time to time about the dangers of using certain types of ammo in a defense situation but haven't read up on the topic to really understand the logic behind the argument. If you are justified in using deadly force to stop another from using deadly force against you or another, and you kill that person, the assailant is dead. It matters not that he is "dead-er" due to the caliber you used or type of ammunition. You are either justified in your use of deadly force or you aren't. Otherwise it would make the type of weapon used in self defense or defense of others an issue. What are the arguments against using certain types of rounds like the R.I.P. cartridge?
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I've heard people mentioning from time to time about the dangers of using certain types of ammo in a defense situation but haven't read up on the topic to really understand the logic behind the argument. If you are justified in using deadly force to stop another from using deadly force against you or another, and you kill that person, the assailant is dead. It matters not that he is "dead-er" due to the caliber you used or type of ammunition. You are either justified in your use of deadly force or you aren't. Otherwise it would make the type of weapon used in self defense or defense of others an issue. What are the arguments against using certain types of rounds like the R.I.P. cartridge?
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What if the perp does not die and sustains massively crippling injuries for the rest of his life?
Do you not think the perp, or the family, would hesitate for a milisecond to sue you?
The plaintiff would obtain the info on your RIP bullet and immediately paint you as a bloodthirsty gun nut.
It would be really tough to defend yourself in court.
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Sadly in this state most non shooters would consider most forum members gun nuts.
In a SHTF scenario you know prep or family will sue. Would rather use LE type issue ammo for HD. Think it would be one less thing the plantiff's attorney could use against you.
Regardless something to consider. Wouldn't use it for CCW ammo either. Rather go with something proven. HD or CCW ammo is like life insurance. You would not choose the one with best commercials right?
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someone has to come up with a number on how much is too much bullets to hoard?Maui dog open a dialogue on that will yah
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Blessed to live in America and we're able to own firearms and ammo.
Does it really matter many or how much a person has? Happy for Mauidog just like you Korrupt if you got a deal.... Just gotta be cool...
Krama... Guy upstairs will provide.
Aloha
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Oh it's great to own fire arms Barrett I love it just like owning your own car, just that I don't wanna be a haorder , I have 2000 rounds of 556 and I think thats enough to have but I look at some people and wow their ready to go Rambo on ISSIS LOL
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Oh it's great to own fire arms Barrett I love it just like owning your own car, just that I don't wanna be a haorder , I have 2000 rounds of 556 and I think thats enough to have but I look at some people and wow their ready to go Rambo on ISSIS LOL
:wacko:
Are you tweaking?
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Is it wrong to ask how much is enough?
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:stopjack:
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someone has to come up with a number on how much is too much bullets to hoard?Maui dog open a dialogue on that will yah
This is America! Everyone should get to say for themselves how much is enough!
Unless you're a Liberal, and then you try to force your rules on the rest of us. :crazy:
:closed:
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What if the perp does not die and sustains massively crippling injuries for the rest of his life?
Do you not think the perp, or the family, would hesitate for a milisecond to sue you?
The plaintiff would obtain the info on your RIP bullet and immediately paint you as a bloodthirsty gun nut.
It would be really tough to defend yourself in court.
I still don't get it. If you shoot anyone and they survive, you will probably sued irrespective of whether you used a hollow point or lead SWC cast by ypur own hands. Defense of self and defense of others are both defenses in a situation where you are accused of committing an intentional tort against another. If you defense a claim of an intentional tort, you don't even get to the issue of damages.
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Believe the point Old Fart and I are trying to convey it's best to use commercial ammo designed for LE or HD. Kinda like it's not best to use your handloaded ammunition. Reasoning behind that? Your handloads may be less powerful and less lethal, but more accurate maybe? + for victim...
Most of us have served on jury duty. The plaintiff's attorney will try to sway Jury in their favor. Name "RIP", graphic videos may be enough to effect verdict. Must be something to it. Winchester changed product name and advertisements for black talons. Still side on being conservative, for HD & CCW use.
Best to run that past your attorney if you have firearms for HD.
If you do it's something real to look into your insurance & well being. Personally know of 3 home invasions (relative & friends) in Honolulu. In all three deadly force could have been a real option if home owners had a firearm. One ended in a justified homicide (purp killed).
Here on the forum you can talk and voice your opinions. Great sharing everybody's views and perspective on subject is what this is all about.
Might not agree but that's your right.
If plaintiff showed up in a wheelchair and said look what that gun nut did to me. Ask yourself honestly would have wanted to use that "RIP" ammo.
Think it's all hype, not good hype.
Sorry for long read, but this topic of HD ammo hits home.
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I still don't get it. If you shoot anyone and they survive, you will probably sued irrespective of whether you used a hollow point or lead SWC cast by ypur own hands. Defense of self and defense of others are both defenses in a situation where you are accused of committing an intentional tort against another. If you defense a claim of an intentional tort, you don't even get to the issue of damages.
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I'm not a lawyer or anything like that. I'm jus' a good ole country boy blessed with a little common sense.
Here is why I say what I say:
1- I seem to recall reading an article written decades ago by somebody of some authority (I can't remember who) and one of the recommendations was to use the same types of guns and ammo that your local pd uses.
2- Just the name, "RIP" bullet casts a shadow of negativity upon you and your intentions.
Are you familiar with the “Black Talon” story?
3- Attorneys can be really shitty about these little things like your choice of bullets. Let me relate a little anecdote.
Approximately 20 years ago I was asked by a prominent defense attorney to testify as an expert witness in a somewhat famous murder trial.
I was hired to examine the ballistic evidence and dispute the prosecutor's claims. It seemed like an easy job.
When I examined the evidence, it was immediately obvious to me that the prosecutor was right. The evidence clearly supported the prosecutor.
Of course, when I presented my report to the defense, I was quickly dismissed before I stepped into the courtroom.
My point is that attorneys will explore every detail to prove or disprove something. This was not "Perry Mason" or "Law and Order". This was "fo'real".
To this day, the perp remains in jail and the defense attorney is still practicing. I see him on tv every once in a while.
4- I don't think the RIP bullet has any track record of success does it?
5-Truth-about-guns test review:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/)
Among other things, the author had a failure to feed and really questions the marketing hype put forth by the manufacturer.
6- The cost of verifying reliable fit, feed and function would be astronomical for ordinary folks. Actual practice sessions would be out of the question.
Unless you are incredibly wealthy.
In conclusion, you may disagree with my reasoning and I do sort of understand what you are saying.
But in the end, we are all adults and free to make our own decisions.
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Yup this is America everybody can shoot whatever pleases them. Ain't no expert but know how tramatic it is for the victim and having to deal with legal drama. Just trying to protect yourself.
Thank you for your post and insight.
Mahalo
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I personally don't like this round.
Not because of legal backlash... But because it just seems silly and gimmicky. And the opposite of what you want to happen for a handgun caliber.
We've spent decades designing bullets that reliably expand, penetrate and retain their weight for a reason. This throws all that out the window for flashiness' sake.
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I'm not a lawyer or anything like that. I'm jus' a good ole country boy blessed with a little common sense.
Here is why I say what I say:
1- I seem to recall reading an article written decades ago by somebody of some authority (I can't remember who) and one of the recommendations was to use the same types of guns and ammo that your local pd uses.
2- Just the name, "RIP" bullet casts a shadow of negativity upon you and your intentions.
Are you familiar with the “Black Talon” story?
3- Attorneys can be really shitty about these little things like your choice of bullets. Let me relate a little anecdote.
Approximately 20 years ago I was asked by a prominent defense attorney to testify as an expert witness in a somewhat famous murder trial.
I was hired to examine the ballistic evidence and dispute the prosecutor's claims. It seemed like an easy job.
When I examined the evidence, it was immediately obvious to me that the prosecutor was right. The evidence clearly supported the prosecutor.
Of course, when I presented my report to the defense, I was quickly dismissed before I stepped into the courtroom.
My point is that attorneys will explore every detail to prove or disprove something. This was not "Perry Mason" or "Law and Order". This was "fo'real".
To this day, the perp remains in jail and the defense attorney is still practicing. I see him on tv every once in a while.
4- I don't think the RIP bullet has any track record of success does it?
5-Truth-about-guns test review:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/)
Among other things, the author had a failure to feed and really questions the marketing hype put forth by the manufacturer.
6- The cost of verifying reliable fit, feed and function would be astronomical for ordinary folks. Actual practice sessions would be out of the question.
Unless you are incredibly wealthy.
In conclusion, you may disagree with my reasoning and I do sort of understand what you are saying.
But in the end, we are all adults and free to make our own decisions.
Dear Venerable Flatulence.
Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't disagreeing inasmuch as I was trying to understand the logic behind and argument that I was aware of even before you mentioned it. Just never heard the arguments that supported the conclusion. If there's any play to be made on use of such destructive ammo, it would have to be (at least in my mind), that the the act was not done in self defense and that the shooter went to great lengths of picking ammunition which would cause (arguably maliciously) the severest of injuries. This may be a factor that weighs against the claim of self defense or defense of others was employed. Sort of like shooting a bazooka at a convenience store robber. While the elements of self defense of one self or others may exist, justifying the use of deadly force, the use of a device which results in complete annilhilation of disintegration of the alleged perpetrator may cast aspersion on the shooter's claim that he was simply defending himself or someone else.
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The problem is lawyers and political correctness.
There is no "logic" behind this train of thought. It is fear of being prosecuted for your actions whether or not you were justified in taking them.
In a self defense situation where one is forced to shoot someone in order to protect themselves or others we are instructed to say "I shot to stop the threat" in order to keep from being prosecuted for having an intent to kill.
This is politically correct BS. The second thing my Father and Grandfather taught me about firearms, after "the gun is always loaded" was "don't point a gun at anything you aren't prepared to kill". Nobody, in any sort of firearms training I've ever heard of including the police, is taught to shoot to wound or brandish to intimidate. We are taught to shoot to kill. If the target is shot and survives or stops before being shot that's all well and good, nobody in their right mind should have a desire to kill another human being. That does not, however, remove the intent.
If you have a firearm pointed at someone, finger on the trigger, you had better be prepared for the eventuality that that person will likely die as a result of your actions. If not, then the weapon shouldn't have been brought out to begin with. The choice of ammunition is moot, it's simply a matter of efficiency.