2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: JHanawahine on January 06, 2015, 08:50:46 PM
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Can you be denied a permit to acquire for nothing? Or say you had a possible flu went to the doctor and didn't go for a follow up appointment weeks later apply for a permit and doctors office denies permit? What do you do?
Edit:add info
Got clearance letter from doctor.but now I must present clearance letter everytime I apply for permit to acquire.is this right? Why would I need a clearance letter for something I was never diagnosed with? And must get a new clearance letter every year.
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Can you be denied a permit to acquire for nothing? Or say you had a possible flu went to the doctor and didn't go for a follow up appointment weeks later apply for a permit and doctors office denies permit? What do you do?
Is this hypothetical, or an actual situation?
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Is this hypothetical, or an actual situation?
reason hypo,situation actual.
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reason hypo,situation actual.
Have you followed this thread, starting from this message?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=15120.msg159018#msg159018
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Kaiser?
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Have you followed this thread, starting from this message?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=15120.msg159018#msg159018
yes.Would like to know after being cleared in the kaiser situation.do you now have to be cleared every app to acquire?
Kaiser?
no
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I dont have a primary Dr, and always leave it blank (N/A) on the permit application.
Permit was never denied.
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.
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I dont have a primary Dr, and always leave it blank (N/A) on the permit application.
Permit was never denied.
thats great but this doctor is/was my primary that my wife had chosen for the family and Have not had any problems with them for the last 4 years that we have been with them.I asked HPD if changing doctors mattered...response was "once a letter,ALWAYS a lettter"
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You should contact NRA-ILA for help because this is complete bullshit.
You were not diagnosed with anything, and on the HPD form they clearly ask you if you have ever been treated for any organic brain diseases and/or sought treatment for mental illness, so they have no reason to do this.
For the flu?? Yeah, I'd be getting an attorney. Mental illness or a related disease is what's stated, not just illness. Sounds like a vindictive doctor to me. You can probably sue him/her into the dirt, whether that will change things with HPD is another matter.
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This is real messed up.
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This is real messed up.
An unfortunate but excellent example of just how far down the rabbit (authoritarian/collectivist?) hole from "shall not be infringed" we are. We've allowed "our" government to dictate (almost) anything they please about (fire)arms.
My sympathies to the aggrieved and best wishes for a relatively quick and inexpensive resolution.
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hope you get it worked out.
i wonder if you get a corrected letter saying you are cleared, then you dont have to go through this yearly.
but wow, what a mess.
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For the flu?? Yeah, I'd be getting an attorney. Mental illness or a related disease is what's stated, not just illness. Sounds like a vindictive doctor to me. You can probably sue him/her into the dirt, whether that will change things with HPD is another matter.
If I read his response right, it's not for the flu:
reason hypo,situation actual.
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If I read his response right, it's not for the flu:
correct.I was just not feeling good & since I had never seen a doctor in years I thought it would be a good idea to be checked out.they basically nothing was actually wrong but told me I was overweight and wanted me to do a series of blood test for cholesterol/blood sugar and what not.i did one follow up and the results were "eat healthy and let's do a follow up" I never went back.
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maybe just some clerical error. or something else that was just done by mistake.
have you tried to contact that doctor or hospital?
sometimes the hospital / clinic can be so big or have someone other than the doctor send out a note with their name on it without the doctor even seeing the note or knowing anything about it.
I work for ****** health care clinic, and notes get sent out all the time with the Provider's name on it, but they have never seen or know anything about it bc its printed by someone else.
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thats great but this doctor is/was my primary that my wife had chosen for the family and Have not had any problems with them for the last 4 years that we have been with them.I asked HPD if changing doctors mattered...response was "once a letter,ALWAYS a lettter"
I'd test this theory. Fire your primary doctor before going in.
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I'm still a little unclear as to the reason is that you are denied and need to get a clearance letter every year. On what basis is HPD saying you need a "no longer adversely affected" letter? Flu, obesity, poor dietary habits and not following up with a medical visit is not a basis for denying you a PTA. Sounds like there is a reporting error (doctor confused you with someone else who had a disqualifying factor), HPD is making shit up, or that you're not disclosing all pertinent information....
I'd specifically ask for a copy of the letter from your physician to see what it said.
Additionally, I have know folks that had a disqualifing condition but they only submitted one "no longer adversely affected" letter and has never had to submit another in over 10 years....something ain't right here....
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I'm still a little unclear as to the reason is that you are denied and need to get a clearance letter every year. On what basis is HPD saying you need a "no longer adversely affected" letter? Flu, obesity, poor dietary habits and not following up with a medical visit is not a basis for denying you a PTA. Sounds like there is a reporting error (doctor confused you with someone else who had a disqualifying factor), HPD is making shit up, or that you're not disclosing all pertinent information....
I'd specifically ask for a copy of the letter from your physician to see what it said.
Additionally, I have know folks that had a disqualifing condition but they only submitted one "no longer adversely affected" letter and has never had to submit another in over 10 years....something ain't right here....
HPD would not give me a copy.they said the denial had no specific reason but a denial is a denial.my doctor would not return my phone calls for 2 days.a nurse called me back while typing my clearance letter to say while they have no problems with me owning a firearm now they are concerned that I have children in the house.I have another follow up with my doctor(a follow up from the hoop jumping I did to get the clearance letter)and going to politely demand a copy.
The info about the renewing letter every year & submitting every app was given by HPD.
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children in the house is more reason to be armed and protect them.
dam liberals. >:(
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To obtain the medical clearance I saw my doctor for the follow up I chose not to go to.here is the diagnosis.HPD was then sent a medical clearance letter stating no longer adversely affected blah blah blah.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/JDuque/79D39E37-FF08-4C65-BF10-AB14CF9D1FBC.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/JDuque/media/79D39E37-FF08-4C65-BF10-AB14CF9D1FBC.jpg.html)
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The process is bullshit. Need to get more pro2a into Hawaii politics and change it.
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To obtain the medical clearance I saw my doctor for the follow up I chose not to go to.here is the diagnosis.HPD was then sent a medical clearance letter stating no longer adversely affected blah blah blah.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/JDuque/79D39E37-FF08-4C65-BF10-AB14CF9D1FBC.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/JDuque/media/79D39E37-FF08-4C65-BF10-AB14CF9D1FBC.jpg.html)
Wait, So since you didn't go to your follow-up, your doctor decided to decline your permit to acquire request? On his own, even though you didn't have any disqualifying qualifications? If so that's screwed up.
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Wait, So since you didn't go to your follow-up, your doctor decided to decline your permit to acquire request? On his own, even though you didn't have any disqualifying qualifications? If so that's screwed up.
yes she did
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If I read his response right, it's not for the flu:
Yep, noticed that after I posted.
correct.I was just not feeling good & since I had never seen a doctor in years I thought it would be a good idea to be checked out.they basically nothing was actually wrong but told me I was overweight and wanted me to do a series of blood test for cholesterol/blood sugar and what not.i did one follow up and the results were "eat healthy and let's do a follow up" I never went back.
HPD would not give me a copy.they said the denial had no specific reason but a denial is a denial.my doctor would not return my phone calls for 2 days.a nurse called me back while typing my clearance letter to say while they have no problems with me owning a firearm now they are concerned that I have children in the house.I have another follow up with my doctor(a follow up from the hoop jumping I did to get the clearance letter)and going to politely demand a copy.
The info about the renewing letter every year & submitting every app was given by HPD.
So you basically went in for a check up, you decided not to go back for a follow up she wanted, she got pissed and sent HPD a denial letter. Now she's back pedaling { how gracious of her to "not have a problem with you owning a firearm" BTW } saying she's concerned because of "children in the house"? How does this fall into a category of being mentally unfit to own firearms?
Where in any of this has this doctor stated that you have some kind of mental issue or psychological problem or medical issue that disqualifies you from owning a firearm?
Get a copy of this letter, speak to an attorney, and fire this woman immediately. This can't be legal.
Edit: I looked it up, the only reason you must have a medical clearance, is if you had a DUI and counseling was ordered.
Also, doctors are covered by immunity to civil liability if they render an opinion, as long as it wasn't an act of malice.
This seems kind of malicious to me.
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I am confused. How does Kaiser and Straub follow different guidelines then say HMSA or Tripler? Is this a law or a provider thing?
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Seems like each doctor or health care service provider follows their own guideline.
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yes she did
I think she violated your civil rights! THIS IS NOT RIGHT! What she said you are not fit because you a little chunky? This is so freaking insulting, to you and to everyone else that values the 2nd and the Constitution.
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Thanks for the replies.im gonna take a walk on my lunch break to a law office down the road.I refuse to check yes on a box on the firearm application questionnaire with "explanation" when I should not have to.
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To obtain the medical clearance I saw my doctor for the follow up I chose not to go to.here is the diagnosis.HPD was then sent a medical clearance letter stating no longer adversely affected blah blah blah.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/JDuque/79D39E37-FF08-4C65-BF10-AB14CF9D1FBC.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/JDuque/media/79D39E37-FF08-4C65-BF10-AB14CF9D1FBC.jpg.html)
Was the diagnosis something that would disqualify you from owning firearms? I understand if you don't want your medical history disclosed on the forum, but it's difficult to figure things out without critical pieces of info.
Generally doctors have immunity from any actions revolving around the denials they may provide to HPD, but those denials should be based on the disqualifying conditions stated in law. If the reason given was children in the house that is not good cause.
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Was the diagnosis something that would disqualify you from owning firearms? I understand if you don't want your medical history disclosed on the forum, but it's difficult to figure things out without critical pieces of info.
Generally doctors have immunity from any actions revolving around the denials they may provide to HPD, but those denials should be based on the disqualifying conditions stated in law. If the reason given was children in the house that is not good cause.
what info are you looking for? thats a picture of the diagnosis given to me by the doctor
Today's diagnosis include:
272.4 hyperlipemia =high cholesterol
Vo4.81 influenza vacc=flu shot
790.21 pre-diabetes=getting close to diabetes
I don't think those disqualify me..do you?
Don't Think reason was children .that was not brought up until they were writing my clearance letter.the only info I'm missing is the actual denial letter & that is a mystery to me also
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what info are you looking for? thats a picture of the diagnosis given to me by the doctor
Today's diagnosis include:
272.4 hyperlipemia =high cholesterol
Vo4.81 influenza vacc=flu shot
790.21 pre-diabetes=getting close to diabetes
I don't think those disqualify me..do you?
Don't Think reason was children .that was not brought up until they were writing my clearance letter.the only info I'm missing is the actual denial letter & that is a mystery to me also
Don't you know? Diabetes is the reason!
What if you are having a bad insulin day, and your blood sugar is way low? That can result in confusion and diminished mental capacity!
We have to nip these potentially life-threatening mental problems in the bud before it becomes a problem!!
Type 2 diabetes in mid and late-life is associated with an increased risk of developing cognitive impairment and dementia.
http://www.yourbrainmatters.org.au/brain_health/evidence/diabetes (http://www.yourbrainmatters.org.au/brain_health/evidence/diabetes)
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K so I didn't have $2500 on me..no lawyer yet
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Don't you know? Diabetes is the reason!
What if you are having a bad insulin day, and your blood sugar is way low? That can result in confusion and diminished mental capacity!
We have to nip these potentially life-threatening mental problems in the bud before it becomes a problem!!
Type 2 diabetes in mid and late-life is associated with an increased risk of developing cognitive impairment and dementia.
http://www.yourbrainmatters.org.au/brain_health/evidence/diabetes (http://www.yourbrainmatters.org.au/brain_health/evidence/diabetes)
fact:pre-diabetes is not diabetes/type 2 diabetes and there a lot of "what ifs" in the world
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fact:pre-diabetes is not diabetes/type 2 diabetes and there a lot of "what ifs" in the world
Sorry. Using facts and logic is out of bounds! We have to look at all potential commonalities between historical shootings and people who might do them in the future.
Mental health can't be predicted very accurately, so we have to find arbitrary characteristics that allow us to strip you of your guns.
If denying 10 million of their rights by classifying them as "maybe this pre-condition indicates a .001% chance of developing a dangerous mental condition", it's worth it if it saves just one life!
:crazy:
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Sorry. Using facts and logic is out of bounds! We have to look at all potential commonalities between historical shootings and people who might do them in the future.
Mental health can't be predicted very accurately, so we have to find arbitrary characteristics that allow us to strip you of your guns.
If denying 10 million of their rights by classifying them as "maybe this pre-condition indicates a .001% chance of developing a dangerous mental condition", it's worth it if it saves just one life!
:crazy:
:rofl:
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I/m guessing a copy of what was sent to HPD was also refused by the Physician?
Your medical records are yours and available to you whenever you want. If refused, I'd say there is something going on that should not be.
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what info are you looking for? thats a picture of the diagnosis given to me by the doctor
Today's diagnosis include:
272.4 hyperlipemia =high cholesterol
Vo4.81 influenza vacc=flu shot
790.21 pre-diabetes=getting close to diabetes
I don't think those disqualify me..do you?
Don't Think reason was children .that was not brought up until they were writing my clearance letter.the only info I'm missing is the actual denial letter & that is a mystery to me also
Sorry, for some reason the picture with the diagnosis wasn't visible when I commented.
You have no disqualifying conditions. I would suggest that you make an appointment with the risk manager at Kaiser. When you go, take your documentation and tell her the situation. Have her review your chart for any information that might have been entered into your chart that might be interpreted as a disqualifying condition. Then suggest that, absent some information to the contrary, the denial letter was without cause and was a malicious attempt to deprive you of your constitutional rights and could subject the organization to a civil rights suit.
The qualified immunity offered to physicians under HRS 134.18 is negated if the physician acted with malice.
ยง134-18 Qualified immunity for physicians, psychologists, or psychiatrists who provide information on permit applicants. There shall be no civil liability for any physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist who provides information or renders an opinion in response to an inquiry made for purposes of issuing a firearm permit under section 134-2 or for purposes of investigating the continuing mental health of the holder of a valid firearm permit provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist acted without malice.
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I have HMSA.sorry if the info is scattered throughout my postings but I'm just confused about it.im thankful for the help :shaka:
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K so I didn't have $2500 on me..no lawyer yet
I don't think you would have much of a case. Sure I think perhaps you could win but what kind of damages would you be able to claim? With the amount of time you would spend it might not be worth it.
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I have HMSA.sorry if the info is scattered throughout my postings but I'm just confused about it.im thankful for the help :shaka:
Is your HMSA an HMO through Straub? If so, the same tactics may apply.
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I don't think you would have much of a case. Sure I think perhaps you could win but what kind of damages would you be able to claim? With the amount of time you would spend it might not be worth it.
Damages can be actual costs incurred, distress, humiliation, personal indignity as well as loss of reputation or status, provided that evidence is offered to establish the extent and duration of these injuries, as well as punitive damages.
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Is your HMSA an HMO through Straub? If so, the same tactics may apply.
HMSA PPO.
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HMSA PPO
If the physicians are employees of Straub then talk to Straub risk manager. If not, talk to the office manager of the physician. Hope that helps....good luck