2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gordyf on March 25, 2015, 06:06:11 PM
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Heads up gang
The subject of the range came up at the last Hawaii Kai board meeting.
Something about noise mitigation.
The minutes said it will be on the agenda for next meeting.
They have left us alone for a while. Too good to last.
Aloha
Gordy
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Heads up gang
The subject of the range came up at the last Hawaii Kai board meeting.
Something about noise mitigation.
The minutes said it will be on the agenda for next meeting.
They have left us alone for a while. Too good to last.
Aloha
Gordy
Here's a solution that won't cost the city a dime....let us have suppressors. :geekdanc:
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Missed the last one, have to admit to being lulled into complacency due to the shear boredom of listening to the repetitive, redundant whining that fairly abounds in my community.
I'll be there on Tuesday.
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Here's a solution that won't cost the city a dime....let us have suppressors. :geekdanc:
from the feb minutes
Koko Head Shooting Complex: Lockard inquired about the status of the Koko Head Shooting Complex improvements. She asked for elaboration on this and whether the sound can be dampened. Houghton will follow up. Chair Knudsen noted that this topic could be added to the agenda for the next meeting.
and even better-
Incident on February 4: Chair Knudsen reported he observed commotion on the beach near Kealahou St. on February 4, 2015, and heard shots fired. Later, he approached HPD as chair of the Board but was not given any information and not questioned as a potential witness. Noting that HPD had talked to the media, Knudsen questioned why the community was not informed. Schreiner noted HPD cannot give information and can only talk to selected press persons. Lt. Sukekane will follow up.
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Missed the last one, have to admit to being lulled into complacency due to the shear boredom of listening to the repetitive, redundant whining that fairly abounds in my community.
I'll be there on Tuesday.
that's 2 hours of my life that i'm never going to get back...
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that's 2 hours of my life that i'm never going to get back...
Yeah, I've got 24-30 hours invested, perhaps 2 of which were actually fruitful. I'm starting to get grouchy again just thinking about it.
BTW, did HPD ever make a public determination in the "magic bullet" case? Time to put them on the hot seat for that one, they've had over a year and I haven't heard anything. If they're still in an "ongoing investigation" they still should have been able to determine where the bullet came from. We can't just let them "assume" that's the case because it's the easy answer, ballistics don't lie. It's science.
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BTW, did HPD ever make a public determination in the "magic bullet" case? Time to put them on the hot seat for that one, they've had over a year and I haven't heard anything. If they're still in an "ongoing investigation" they still should have been able to determine where the bullet came from. We can't just let them "assume" that's the case because it's the easy answer, ballistics don't lie. It's science.
Sling shot from across the street or from a passing car? ;D
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Heads up gang
The subject of the range came up at the last Hawaii Kai board meeting.
Something about noise mitigation.
The minutes said it will be on the agenda for next meeting.
They have left us alone for a while. Too good to last.
Aloha
Gordy
You guys best be on top of this, on the BI we suspect Knudnuts and his Oahu buddies are behind the last minute "noise" obstacle desperately thrown in front of getting our range built.
Looks like they are feeling flush with success and want to give it a try to shut down KHSC as well.
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You guys best be on top of this, on the BI we suspect Knudnuts and his Oahu buddies are behind the last minute "noise" obstacle desperately thrown in front of getting our range built.
Looks like they are feeling flush with success and want to give it a try to shut down KHSC as well.
Rob,
How is that issue going over there? I will be moving over there one day and I hope the range is built before I do.
Thanks!
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This could be an issue if KHSC wasn't already in existence, since 1937.
The fact they purchased or built homes around a range they knew was there is their problem. It's not like it was kept a secret.
While noise mitigation should be included in whatever "plan" they finally come up with I don't think the issue can be used to shut it down. Sirens from the firehouse are far louder and more irritating in their frequency. An ambulance just went by on Lunalilo Hm. Rd. as I type this, probably the third one I've heard since 4 pm.
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This could be an issue if KHSC wasn't already in existence, since 1937.
The fact they purchased or built homes around a range they knew was there is their problem. It's not like it was kept a secret.
While noise mitigation should be included in whatever "plan" they finally come up with I don't think the issue can be used to shut it down. Sirens from the firehouse are far louder and more irritating in their frequency. An ambulance just went by on Lunalilo Hm. Rd. as I type this, probably the third one I've heard since 4 pm.
Bill targets shooting range noise complaints
Such businesses would be protected from nuisance lawsuits
Gun rights advocates, law enforcement groups and some residents near shooting ranges are keeping close watch on a bill to protect existing sport shooting ranges from noise complaints.
The bill before state lawmakers would prevent residents near shooting ranges such as the Vancouver Trap and Gun Club and the English Pit Shooting Range from filing nuisance lawsuits
against the ranges. Residents would still be able to file suit if they allege the ranges’ practices are negligent or dangerous, or if there had been a substantial change in how the range was
used since the resident moved in.
“We’ll have gun ranges that are out in a rural area and the next thing you know, they’re building houses around them and people start complaining about the noise,” the bill’s sponsor, state
Rep. Dean Takko, D-Longview, said. “And the next thing you know, there’s ordinances that are passed that chase (gun ranges) off.”
Takko’s proposal, House Bill 1508, also would prohibit local governments from regulating the construction or location of existing gun ranges. Sport shooting ranges would only have to comply
with the noise rules that existed when the range first opened, or rules established in 1980 if the range is older.
Local governments could regulate the construction or location of future shooting ranges.
http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/feb/23/bill-targets-noise-complaints-shooting-ranges/ (http://www.columbian.com/news/2012/feb/23/bill-targets-noise-complaints-shooting-ranges/)
Some food for thought. Big difference here, since the KHSC range is a municipal park, not a business.
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This could be an issue if KHSC wasn't already in existence, since 1937.
The fact they purchased or built homes around a range they knew was there is their problem. It's not like it was kept a secret.
While noise mitigation should be included in whatever "plan" they finally come up with I don't think the issue can be used to shut it down. Sirens from the firehouse are far louder and more irritating in their frequency. An ambulance just went by on Lunalilo Hm. Rd. as I type this, probably the third one I've heard since 4 pm.
Tradition and reason nothing to the likes of Knudsen and other refugees from the continent. They will seek ways to bully public officials into making Hawaii a better fit for them. They are self-defined as being smarter than those officials and the masses, and therefore always right.
Example: HC&S on Maui, the only sugar plantation left in the Islands, is constantly harassed by complaints about smoke from cane fires. Jobs mean nothing to the complainers because they are all smarter than the people who have to work for a filthy plantation. The fact that sugar was being grown for decades before those whiners moved in means nothing. On the last day of Oahu Sugar Co. operations in the 1990s, that plantation was still getting complaints from newcomer neighbors about smoke and "Waipahu snow" -- ash -- from the last harvest. Never mind that the plantation was there for a century. Noise is an issue where the malihini menace or drawbridge people have been especially successful: Complaints about noise from the Waikiki Shell led to severe restrictions on its operations and use, many years after it was built. The complaints came from newbies across Kapiolani Park. Iolani School's band had to quit outdoor practice after a bunch of whiners moved into new high-rises next to the campus. Even though the school had been there for decades.
So I wouldn't be complacent that Koko Head can survive attack by Knudsen and his fellow smart people. By the way, the city is holding Neighborhood Board elections April 24-May 15, and Knudsen is up for re-election:
http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-nco-menu/site-nco-sitearticles/18327-election-faqs.html (http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-nco-menu/site-nco-sitearticles/18327-election-faqs.html)
It appears to be too late for new candidates to run this time. There are eight people, including Knudsen, running for four at-large seats on the Hawaii Kai board:
http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-nco-menu/site-nco-sitearticles/18329-current-candidate-list.html (http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-nco-menu/site-nco-sitearticles/18329-current-candidate-list.html)
I don't live in that neighborhood board area, but I sure hope all the shooters who do will participate in the election. The voting is done over the phone or internet. If you voted in last year's elections, you're automatically registered.
Most of these elections are decided by a small number of votes, because turnout is very poor, even by Hawaii standards.
As a taxpayer, I'd like to see the Neighborhood Boards abolished. They're a waste of money and serve only as vehicles for a few ambitious busybodies (sound familiar?). But first things first. Quit giving Greg Knudsen and his ilk a bully pulpit at our expense. Please elect someone else.
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Rob,
How is that issue going over there? I will be moving over there one day and I hope the range is built before I do.
Thanks!
No recent updates from On Target, the group herding the effort to get it built and deflect the anti's trying to stop it. More/additional noise tests were run (3rd time!), complete with attenuation box bullshit. No more since then. Big money seems to be behind the 11th hour effort to kill it.
Amazing BS in the local idiot newsrag about quality of life, blah blah blah. Stupid shits ignore the fact that it is to be built mauka of a huge landfill. I guess landfills are just pono, guns bad................Tourist helocopters are in the air constantly, harleys without mufflers, semi trucks on the highway, no matter, guns bad, must forbid.
One idiot wrote was interviewed (a snowbird I believe) and babbled about drunks from Missouri packing heat in the Waikoloa resort.
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No recent updates from On Target, the group herding the effort to get it built and deflect the anti's trying to stop it. More/additional noise tests were run (3rd time!), complete with attenuation box bullshit. No more since then. Big money seems to be behind the 11th hour effort to kill it.
Amazing BS in the local idiot newsrag about quality of life, blah blah blah. Stupid shits ignore the fact that it is to be built mauka of a huge landfill. I guess landfills are just pono, guns bad................Tourist helocopters are in the air constantly, harleys without mufflers, semi trucks on the highway, no matter, guns bad, must forbid.
One idiot wrote was interviewed (a snowbird I believe) and babbled about drunks from Missouri packing heat in the Waikoloa resort.
Thanks for the update. Is the range in Volcano still open if you join the club? Or has that been shut down? Thanks. :shaka:
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Thanks for the update. Is the range in Volcano still open if you join the club? Or has that been shut down? Thanks. :shaka:
Might be best not to mention this in a public forum. Maybe doesn't matter. I'm erring on the side of caution. :shaka:
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This could be an issue if KHSC wasn't already in existence, since 1937.
The fact they purchased or built homes around a range they knew was there is their problem. It's not like it was kept a secret.
While noise mitigation should be included in whatever "plan" they finally come up with I don't think the issue can be used to shut it down. Sirens from the firehouse are far louder and more irritating in their frequency. An ambulance just went by on Lunalilo Hm. Rd. as I type this, probably the third one I've heard since 4 pm.
that's 3 hours of my life i'm never getting back...
but it was worth the price of admission...
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that's 3 hours of my life i'm never getting back...
but it was worth the price of admission...
Allow me to explain,
Mac and I went to the meeting last night. After sitting through the usual self congratulatory pap, a new board appointment and some general whining we finally reached the portion of the meeting where the Mayors Rep. Tim Houghton gave his report. Apparently "Liza" Lockard, another new board member, had asked him at the last meeting if noise mitigation was being included in the plan for the range "improvements". His answer was "No". Apparently this meant little or nothing to her, as she didn't look up from her smart phone or acknowledge him in any way. However, our good buddy GK seemed to get quite the thrill out of it! { read between the lines, as you will } He responded at the end of the report, making a comment about Sen. Slom's range protection bill { SB 955 } and how he was "glad it didn't pass because it would've given the range a free pass on noise issues and even injuries". Sen. Slom gave his usual succinct report on the sad state of affairs at the state level then responded to GK's comments "Either you didn't read the bill, or you didn't understand it. It doesn't give the range a free pass, it protects the state from frivolous lawsuits brought by people looking to get a quick settlement". GK started to argue the point, but Sen. Slom cut him off saying "I don't come here to argue with you! If you want to talk to me about this, come down to my office, my door is always open."
It was the best smackdown I've seen there and the look on GK's face was priceless!
Well worth the price of admission!
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Has anybody thought of planting a grove of Norfolk Pine or Ironwood trees Between the range and the homes at Hawaii Kai, maybe in the Koko Head Regional Park. I suppose trees could dampen the sound of the gunfire from the range. I know that the gunfire noise at the houses are distant, but there are times they bother people like the sound of a dripping faucet.
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Has anybody thought of planting a grove of Norfolk Pine or Ironwood trees Between the range and the homes at Hawaii Kai, maybe in the Koko Head Regional Park. I suppose trees could dampen the sound of the gunfire from the range. I know that the gunfire noise at the houses are distant, but there are times they bother people like the sound of a dripping faucet.
Hi Greg! :shaka: That would be the same as asking all the golf courses to put up netting to catch errant golf balls. The range has been in existence long before any homes homes were built.
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It was the best smackdown I've seen there
two words:
"hobby horse"
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Allow me to explain,
Mac and I went to the meeting last night. After sitting through the usual self congratulatory pap, a new board appointment and some general whining we finally reached the portion of the meeting where the Mayors Rep. Tim Houghton gave his report. Apparently "Liza" Lockard, another new board member, had asked him at the last meeting if noise mitigation was being included in the plan for the range "improvements". His answer was "No". Apparently this meant little or nothing to her, as she didn't look up from her smart phone or acknowledge him in any way. However, our good buddy GK seemed to get quite the thrill out of it! { read between the lines, as you will } He responded at the end of the report, making a comment about Sen. Slom's range protection bill { SB 955 } and how he was "glad it didn't pass because it would've given the range a free pass on noise issues and even injuries". Sen. Slom gave his usual succinct report on the sad state of affairs at the state level then responded to GK's comments "Either you didn't read the bill, or you didn't understand it. It doesn't give the range a free pass, it protects the state from frivolous lawsuits brought by people looking to get a quick settlement". GK started to argue the point, but Sen. Slom cut him off saying "I don't come here to argue with you! If you want to talk to me about this, come down to my office, my door is always open."
It was the best smackdown I've seen there and the look on GK's face was priceless!
Well worth the price of admission!
wow, ed
didn't know you have a photographic memory
usually you are writing down notes, but you weren't yesterday
sen slom also added that his bill was extending protection to the city and state because people view them as "deep pockets"
and that the same protection already applies to most city and state services like lifeguards
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Thanks very much guys for sitting through that and giving us a report. Look on GK's face....priceless! Lol
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You're welcome!
I attend every meeting I can. I'd like to say it's my pleasure, but mostly it's not. Listening to whiners is not my forte. The urge to stand up and shout "Just shut the f*ck up! You've pissed and moaned about this for the last five meetings and we're all tired of hearing it!" is sometimes difficult to control.
Then there are the nights like this one, where you leave with a spring in your step and a little grin..... ;D
There was also a great discussion on the rail project. Natalie Iwasa, who's a CPA, found hundreds of millions in discrepancies between what HART is telling the public and what their books actually say they've spent and received. While her motion to deny the boards support of HART was squelched by.....guess who, I have to say I agreed with her. A first! :shake:
If you have a chance catch this on OLELO or read the published minutes.
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You're welcome!
I attend every meeting I can. I'd like to say it's my pleasure, but mostly it's not. Listening to whiners is not my forte. The urge to stand up and shout "Just shut the f*ck up! You've pissed and moaned about this for the last five meetings and we're all tired of hearing it!" is sometimes difficult to control.
Then there are the nights like this one, where you leave with a spring in your step and a little grin..... ;D
There was also a great discussion on the rail project. Natalie Iwasa, who's a CPA, found hundreds of millions in discrepancies between what HART is telling the public and what their books actually say they've spent and received. While her motion to deny the boards support of HART was squelched by.....guess who, I have to say I agreed with her. A first! :shake:
If you have a chance catch this on OLELO or read the published minutes.
did you go to the beer summit, ed?
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Thanks Ed and Macsak for being active in your boards. I can relate to the whining and other nuances as I was the treasurer & president of our AOAO and now the vice. I saw vendors look at us homeowners as a cash cow as they are not required to bid (vs govt. projects). I put a stop to that. Told our prop. mgr. to take quotes from several vendors instead of just picking one (probably favored). It is not illegal for property managers to receive kickback or a percentage right?? I'd imagine there are no laws to prevent this as we are a private AOAO.
Now with the rail - it is a magnified problem of our small AOAO.
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did you go to the beer summit, ed?
No, I was tempted, but in the end I chose not to listen to all the evasive answers and BS. Grabasskiss will hang himself with his own lies, but not before the C&C wastes a couple more billion of our money.
Besides, I have to go to work tomorrow. I don't have time to get arrested for beating the sh*t out of him.
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Has anybody thought of planting a grove of Norfolk Pine or Ironwood trees Between the range and the homes at Hawaii Kai, maybe in the Koko Head Regional Park. I suppose trees could dampen the sound of the gunfire from the range. I know that the gunfire noise at the houses are distant, but there are times they bother people like the sound of a dripping faucet.
Funny. I've driven to the range many times with the windows down. I don't hear gunfire from the highway. The noise isn't noticeable until I turn into the crater near the archery range.
I believe the shape of the crater already dampens the sound plenty. If you park near the restrooms in the center, you can easily hold a conversation and not need hearing protection even with heavy rifle range use going on.
Since good quality ear protection takes gunfire noise down to about 30dB, it's very difficult for me to believe anyone in a HK home hears enough gunfire to be bothered.
Therefore, planting any sort of trees or shrubs to absorb noise would not be cost effective, since the level of noise is already at acceptable levels, and any additional sound absorbed by trees would be negligible.
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Funny. I've driven to the range many times with the windows down. I don't hear gunfire from the highway. The noise isn't noticeable until I turn into the crater near the archery range.
I believe the shape of the crater already dampens the sound plenty. If you park near the restrooms in the center, you can easily hold a conversation and not need hearing protection even with heavy rifle range use going on.
Since good quality ear protection takes gunfire noise down to about 30dB, it's very difficult for me to believe anyone in a HK home hears enough gunfire to be bothered.
Therefore, planting any sort of trees or shrubs to absorb noise would not be cost effective, since the level of noise is already at acceptable levels, and any additional sound absorbed by trees would be negligible.
I can speak to this, as I live in the area. I live about 1 mile, as the crow flies, from the range and family members that we visit regularly live on Anapalau St., the road that takes you to Koko Head District Park.
You can definitely hear the gunfire from my house, and the closer you get, the louder it gets. It becomes more or less noticeable depending on atmospheric conditions as well. Sometimes it's barely noticeable pops, but when the wind is right it gets much louder. Having lived here for 20 years, I've grown accustomed to it. As have the relatives.
The bottom line is, if you bought a house next to a gun range, hoping for peace and quiet, you made a grave error and you should move.
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Thanks Ed and Macsak for being active in your boards. I can relate to the whining and other nuances as I was the treasurer & president of our AOAO and now the vice. I saw vendors look at us homeowners as a cash cow as they are not required to bid (vs govt. projects). I put a stop to that. Told our prop. mgr. to take quotes from several vendors instead of just picking one (probably favored). It is not illegal for property managers to receive kickback or a percentage right?? I'd imagine there are no laws to prevent this as we are a private AOAO.
Now with the rail - it is a magnified problem of our small AOAO.
In the state of Hawaii there are special circumstances surrounding being a property manager. I won't get into the details unless someone asks. But under most circumstances a property manager has to be licensed. If a licensed property manager gets caught taking any sort kickback they can lose their license. Unlicensed property managers don't play by the same code of ethics a licensed property manager does.
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Funny. I've driven to the range many times with the windows down. I don't hear gunfire from the highway. The noise isn't noticeable until I turn into the crater near the archery range.
I believe the shape of the crater already dampens the sound plenty. If you park near the restrooms in the center, you can easily hold a conversation and not need hearing protection even with heavy rifle range use going on.
Since good quality ear protection takes gunfire noise down to about 30dB, it's very difficult for me to believe anyone in a HK home hears enough gunfire to be bothered.
Therefore, planting any sort of trees or shrubs to absorb noise would not be cost effective, since the level of noise is already at acceptable levels, and any additional sound absorbed by trees would be negligible.
Possible the sounds can only be heard in certain areas due to reflection off the mountain, wind, or heavy cloud cover reflecting sound back down. Also the sound of traffic and ocean can mask the sound which might be heard in quiet areas. When things are just right, in Aiea I can hear the artillery firing at Schofield at night when it's quieter, wind is blowing down, and overcast skies.
Still the homeowners fault for moving there when they know a gun range is next door.
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I live about a half mile as the crow flies from the range. If I'm outside I can hear the shots, but they are pretty soft - if one of my neighbors is weedwacking I won't hear any of the shots. If I'm inside and the kids are watching TV I don't notice any noise from the range. When my kids were still infants, it wasn't the noise from the range that annoyed me - it was the Blue Hawaii helicopter tours going overhead every day, multiple times each day. Those helicopters are loud and annoying. We've lived here for almost 11 years now; although it wasn't a priority for us, being a few minutes drive from the range is great for me.
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I live about a half mile as the crow flies from the range. If I'm outside I can hear the shots, but they are pretty soft - if one of my neighbors is weedwacking I won't hear any of the shots. If I'm inside and the kids are watching TV I don't notice any noise from the range. When my kids were still infants, it wasn't the noise from the range that annoyed me - it was the Blue Hawaii helicopter tours going overhead every day, multiple times each day. Those helicopters are loud and annoying. We've lived here for almost 11 years now; although it wasn't a priority for us, being a few minutes drive from the range is great for me.
Agree completely about the helicopters. I've actually called the FAA to complain in the past. The regs are that they must be 1000 ft. or higher, if you can get the tail numbers they'll contact and possibly cite the pilot.
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I remembered trying to look up FAA regs and seeing the 1000 ft rule. Thanks for the tip on getting the aircraft's registration number.
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Has anybody thought of planting a grove of Norfolk Pine or Ironwood trees Between the range and the homes at Hawaii Kai, maybe in the Koko Head Regional Park. I suppose trees could dampen the sound of the gunfire from the range. I know that the gunfire noise at the houses are distant, but there are times they bother people like the sound of a dripping faucet.
How about planting a whole bunch of these?
(http://www.tinygreenhands.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Tiny-Green-Hands-Bok-Choy.jpg)
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Thanks Ed and Macsak for being active in your boards. I can relate to the whining and other nuances as I was the treasurer & president of our AOAO and now the vice. I saw vendors look at us homeowners as a cash cow as they are not required to bid (vs govt. projects). I put a stop to that. Told our prop. mgr. to take quotes from several vendors instead of just picking one (probably favored). It is not illegal for property managers to receive kickback or a percentage right?? I'd imagine there are no laws to prevent this as we are a private AOAO.
Now with the rail - it is a magnified problem of our small AOAO.
Actually Ren, the scenario you describe is illegal.
Your property mgr is bound by fiduciary duty.
To " receive kickback or a percentage" for the purpose of acquiring a particular vendor is more than unethical, it is ILLEGAL.
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Ed and macsak, your presence at these meetings are definitely keeping these antis under control. They know we are watching, and at a moment's notice ready to pounce in retaliation. Awesome resource to have a immediate play by play of the situation! THANK YOU
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Ed and macsak, your presence at these meetings are definitely keeping these antis under control. They know we are watching, and at a moment's notice ready to pounce in retaliation. Awesome resource to have a immediate play by play of the situation! THANK YOU
Plus 1 guys! Thank you!
Gordy