2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: dustoff003 on March 21, 2015, 06:31:20 PM
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Wish I didn't have to work this weekend. So did x-ring announce their range fee and membership fee schedule?
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Wish I didn't have to work this weekend. So did x-ring announce their range fee and membership fee schedule?
Only preliminary
I'll post later
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Only preliminary
I'll post later
okay thanks
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Only preliminary
I'll post later
It seemed pretty solid in the flyer all the tiers? But you may have more info so I wait for ya Macsak-san!
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It seemed pretty solid in the flyer all the tiers? But you may have more info so I wait for ya Macsak-san!
no inside info
other than that prices and policies are subject to change
pay by the day membership
$10 annual membership fee
$16.50 per person per day NO outside ammo
$37.50 per person per day, outside ammo permitted
LE/.mil member $12
one hour max range time if there is a waiting list
basic annual membership rate
$500 per year
$100 to add a spouse or child 9-17 yo
one hour max range time if there is a waiting list
10% off ammo and targets NO outside ammo or targets
daily rate
no charge for member
guest of member $12 per person per day (max 2 guests)
elite annual membership rate
$950 per year
$100 to add spouse or child 9-17 yo
unlimited use of range with your own ammo, no time limit
10% off firearms (reg price, not sale)
20% off ammo and targets (reg price, not sale)
daily rate
no charge for member
guest of member $10 per member, (max 2 guests)
there are other rules, some of which i am gonna clarify tomorrow
flyer says
indoor range (june 2015)
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no inside info
other than that prices and policies are subject to change
pay by the day membership
$10 annual membership fee
$16.50 per person per day NO outside ammo
$37.50 per person per day, outside ammo permitted
LE/.mil member $12
one hour max range time if there is a waiting list
basic annual membership rate
$500 per year
$100 to add a spouse or child 9-17 yo
one hour max range time if there is a waiting list
10% off ammo and targets NO outside ammo or targets
daily rate
no charge for member
guest of member $12 per person per day (max 2 guests)
elite annual membership rate
$950 per year
$100 to add spouse or child 9-17 yo
unlimited use of range with your own ammo, no time limit
10% off firearms (reg price, not sale)
20% off ammo and targets (reg price, not sale)
daily rate
no charge for member
guest of member $10 per member, (max 2 guests)
there are other rules, some of which i am gonna clarify tomorrow
flyer says
indoor range (june 2015)
>:(
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They gonna charge $.50 a round of 9mm and $1.40 a round of 12ga like Magnum (aka Honolulu Firearms)? I had high hopes....
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Flyer
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Flyer
mahalo, dafrt
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They gonna charge $.50 a round of 9mm and $1.40 a round of 12ga like Magnum (aka Honolulu Firearms)? I had high hopes....
I agree. I thought the price structure was going to be a lot different than it turned out. I was under the impression I could bring my own ammo. But for $950/year it is cheaper to drive to KHSC from Kapolei and shoot my own ammo once or twice a week. I would have been willing to pay up to $500/year for the same benefits as the elite package. It appears they are going to be catering to the Japanese tourists instead of the local community. Prices in SoCal are $15/session bring your own gun and ammo for non members at one range, $14/hr with your own gun and ammo at another and $18/session at another. Gun rentals, range ammo and targets are extra but not mandatory. I can understand it if the prices are a little higher here. But these prices are prohibitive for someone like me.
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As long as can draw from holster, change mags, do tech drills, I am good with it. Static one shot per second and yeah might as well fight traffic and go KHSC. I understand about the fee schedule though. The range has to make money right! Hoping there will be classes, night shoots, club days / nights, all that just like the good ole days. Whoo hoo c'mon guys you know this is going to be good
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Yeah. They need to make money. Would it not make more sense to sell 100 $500 memberships than zero $1000 memberships? I guess they'll sell some, but for the average joe that wants to practice safe firearm handling and train, IMHO, that price is outrageous. Like inspector I would pay something like $500 per year, shoot my own ammo, practice draw, and controlled rapid fire. I could live with time limits and buying targets (reasonably priced). But 1k....
One would have to go at least twice, maybe three times, a week to make it worth it...... now that would be a fun thing to do, but not practical for someone who works for a living.
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As long as can draw from holster, change mags, do tech drills, I am good with it. Static one shot per second and yeah might as well fight traffic and go KHSC. I understand about the fee schedule though. The range has to make money right! Hoping there will be classes, night shoots, club days / nights, all that just like the good ole days. Whoo hoo c'mon guys you know this is going to be good
According to the flyer you can only draw, holster, or rapid fire if the RSO lets you. I'm totally for safety and I understand that, but what one RSO considers unsafe, another might find just passable. ???
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They gonna charge $.50 a round of 9mm and $1.40 a round of 12ga like Magnum (aka Honolulu Firearms)? I had high hopes....
Fuck that noise lol. Good thing we have fun shoots with LIFE and pistol clubs we can join.
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DO you guys think theres going to be people buying $500 memberships knowing that they have to pay that kind of prices for ammo-I think they would get more members paying the $500 and bring your own ammo-$950 for membership I can't do that,$950 is a new firearm, scope, ammo, knives,realkly nice gun safe.
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The daily rate is not bad..considering the Water Park is the same. I imagine insurance is their #1 cost. Though I have no interest at this time to draw from holster etc. I'm shooting bullseye pistol to earn distinguished.
Oh, just saw flyer. Can't bring outside targets. :(
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As long as their prices for ammo are not like Honolulu Firearms and Range I'm good with the $500 package. I'd like the option to bring my own paper targets though. I'd like to practice the dot torture test while I'm there.
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They gonna charge $.50 a round of 9mm and $1.40 a round of 12ga like Magnum (aka Honolulu Firearms)? I had high hopes....
No ammo is regular priced.
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No ammo is regular priced.
So, it's $37.50 a day w/ outside ammo and up to an hour if crowded, right?
Are you guys considering offering monthly memberships? If you were to offer the same benefits of the $950/yr. membership to a monthly membership fee of $80 to $100 a month, you could generate the same if not more revenue, and I suspect there's more people that would be willing to shell out that amount as opposed to nearly a grand at one time.
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So, it's $37.50 a day w/ outside ammo and up to an hour if crowded, right?
Are you guys considering offering monthly memberships? If you were to offer the same benefits of the $950/yr. membership to a monthly membership fee of $80 to $100 a month, you could generate the same if not more revenue, and I suspect there's more people that would be willing to shell out that amount as opposed to nearly a grand at one time.
No ammo is regular priced.
Regular priced is expensive. That is the reason people reload or look for ammo specials by the case.
I am not going to voice much of my disappointment in what I feel about the prices that have been announced. I will however submit that the impression was that Xring was going to be a place for the public to shoot at a decent price point. IMHO, many many persons will NOT spend that kind of money with any frequency just to shoot indoors. I can say, I will not be shooting there if these prices are the last word.
I had planned to purchase a membership and introduce new people to firearms with light reloads, at an easier and more practical distance for a handgun, and graduate them to normal power rounds. Many are intimidated by firearms and do not want to take classes, however they are curious, and not oppesed to at least try.....
$40 + $40 per person that comes in with me to shoot? That will really put off someone who is on the fence in the first place.
I may try it out once or twice, but probably no more than that. IMO, Xring is going to alienate MANY shooters with those prices.
I can say this. I hardly, if ever, go into Magnum, and spend money there even less..even with the 'new' management. The one and only reason is the prices that they charge. If it is that Xring wanted to make some kind of 'elite' Beverly hills gunclub action, well then that is cool. All the best and good fortune.
We the 'regular' people will just have to continue to fight the roads on the way to kokohead.
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I'll bring it up.
Ammo prices will be dropping since we finally getting the range deals.
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Regular priced is expensive. That is the reason people reload or look for ammo specials by the case.
I am not going to voice much of my disappointment in what I feel about the prices that have been announced. I will however submit that the impression was that Xring was going to be a place for the public to shoot at a decent price point. IMHO, many many persons will NOT spend that kind of money with any frequency just to shoot indoors. I can say, I will not be shooting there if these prices are the last word.
I had planned to purchase a membership and introduce new people to firearms with light reloads, at an easier and more practical distance for a handgun, and graduate them to normal power rounds. Many are intimidated by firearms and do not want to take classes, however they are curious, and not oppesed to at least try.....
$40 + $40 per person that comes in with me to shoot? That will really put off someone who is on the fence in the first place.
I may try it out once or twice, but probably no more than that. IMO, Xring is going to alienate MANY shooters with those prices.
I can say this. I hardly, if ever, go into Magnum, and spend money there even less..even with the 'new' management. The one and only reason is the prices that they charge. If it is that Xring wanted to make some kind of 'elite' Beverly hills gunclub action, well then that is cool. All the best and good fortune.
We the 'regular' people will just have to continue to fight the roads on the way to kokohead.
This!!! +1
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This is JMHO and is what I was planning to do once the range opened. I was planning to stop by the range in the mid to late afternoon after I get off of work. One or maybe two days a week for about an hour each time. If you would consider offering a "LOCALS" special membership for $500/yr with a maximum of 2hrs/week or maybe even 1hr/day with a maximum of 2 days a week, and allow our own guns and ammo with an hourly rate of your choosing if one goes beyond the allowable time/days, I would be all in.
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What are the range hours?
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I agree with inspector.$500 and bring your own ammo.I wouldnt mind stopping by after work once or twice a week for a hour. :thumbsup:
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Range Hours for now is 10am-5pm maybe 6pm Tue-Sat
Plans are to train a new crew and open 7 days a week and later. But We wont know till when.
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Every range I shot at on the mainland required factory loaded ammo, brass cased only, and no steel cores. Used brass became property of the range. That's one way they lowered costs -- bagging or reloading the spent brass.
According to the X-Ring list posted a little bit ago, no reloads allowed in rental guns at all. That implies you can use reloads in your own guns ...
... assuming BYOA is allowed.
For what it's worth.
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If it is that Xring wanted to make some kind of 'elite' Beverly hills gunclub action, well then that is cool.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/219/080210231111beverlyhill.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/f/63080210231111beverlyhillj)
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Every range I shot at on the mainland required factory loaded ammo, brass cased only, and no steel cores. Used brass became property of the range. That's one way they lowered costs -- bagging or reloading the spent brass.
According to the X-Ring list posted a little bit ago, no reloads allowed in rental guns at all. That implies you can use reloads in your own guns ...
... assuming BYOA is allowed.
For what it's worth.
One of the first things I had wanted to know about this new range was if one's own reloads would be allowed. I might have assumed BYOA meant reloads. I am sorry if that is incorrect. The whole reason, for me anyway, to go to this range would be to test reloads, bring new shooters to try lower power reloads, and to practice with reloaded ammo of similar velocity and impact as SD ammo.
Sorry for the confusion if BYOA means factory ammo only. If that is the case, then that would mean I would probably never have a reason to try it out at all.
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One of the first things I had wanted to know about this new range was if one's own reloads would be allowed. I might have assumed BYOA meant reloads. I am sorry if that is incorrect. The whole reason, for me anyway, to go to this range would be to test reloads, bring new shooters to try lower power reloads, and to practice with reloaded ammo of similar velocity and impact as SD ammo.
Sorry for the confusion if BYOA means factory ammo only. If that is the case, then that would mean I would probably never have a reason to try it out at all.
Whether you can bring your own ammo at all, new or reloaded, is looking like the real subject. Looks like there are ways to pay for that privilege.
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Every range I shot at on the mainland required factory loaded ammo, brass cased only, and no steel cores. Used brass became property of the range. That's one way they lowered costs -- bagging or reloading the spent brass.
According to the X-Ring list posted a little bit ago, no reloads allowed in rental guns at all. That implies you can use reloads in your own guns ...
... assuming BYOA is allowed.
For what it's worth.
For me it is not so much the savings of my reloads over the range ammo. But I do have a little insight into what 9mm is going to cost and it will be close to $16/box. It might be higher or lower. But even at $15/box that is $0.30 per round. I am reloading at $0.19 per round currently. Actually, $0.184 per round. So for me the savings is significant. Plus I have already invested a substantial amount into my reloading components. Having to buy ammo just adds significantly to my monthly expenses that I was not planning for. And then what do I do with the hundreds and hundreds (Close to $1k) of dollars I have invested into the components that I will no longer use? Because if I am going to shoot pistol at X-Ring I am not going to waste a trip to KHSC to shoot pistols. You see the real reason I prefer my own reloads is not the cost. It is the time and effort put into the picking of components, and the testing. And after all the work is done, my sights are set for my loads. I don't know about you but every time you go to the range and fire different ammo I hate not hitting to point of aim. Then how do you know if the ammo doesn't work well with your gun or if you are just having a bad day?
Reloading isn't just an attempt to save money for me. It is a huge part of my gun hobby. I just hate the thought of having to throw all that away.
The ranges I shot at in LA only allowed purchased ammo in their guns. And some places sold reloads. But all of the ranges I shot at around OC allowed reloads in your own guns. It seemed LA had some rules/laws that the ranges had to follow that did not apply to OC.
YMMV
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I think Heavies and Inspector have a very valid point. I think the community was hoping for more opportunity to use either their own reloads or outside purchased ammo more frequently than the 2 current options: the daily $37.50 rate or the $950 annual elite membership. Seeing how there is time between now and the time the range opens to the public, hopefully a compromise/solution can be reached. :shaka:
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Let's keep in mind the costs of building and insurance. Must have been quite a bit of $$$
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Let's keep in mind the costs of building and insurance. Must have been quite a bit of $$$
I don't want to take away anything from X-Ring regarding the range. It is their range to do with as they please. It cost them what it cost. If they felt it was cost prohibitive they would not have built it. They had to have a business plan for it before they built it. Which would have included what their charges and rules were going to be. As I told Dex I am not mad or upset. I am just disappointed that my practice time with pistols is not going to change due to the cost of going to their range. It is what it is and I can't change it. All I can do is let them know I won't be spending my money at the range due to their prices. If they choose to do something about their pricing then great, I'll spend my hard earned money there. If not, I'll have more money to buy more military rifles.
But here is what I see as being the down fall of their pricing regardless of what their cost to build/run the range. I don't believe they are going to get enough yearly memberships to support the range. I also believe that their bread and butter is going to be the non members that will come mostly on the weekends. Basically the occasional shooter. I don't believe their will be enough of this type of shooter either to support the range. If they make the range affordable enough to bring in more people those people will spend more money in the store. I know every time I walk into X-Ring or one of the other LGS I spend $40-$60. That, to me is the draw of the range if I were X-Ring.
I coiuld be wrong, and I hope I am. I only wish the best for X-Ring and their new range. In the meantime, we'll see if the pricing and rules stay static or eventually change.
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I'm a bit disappointed with the cost of the fees, however I know it's very expensive to operate a range. Probably looking at around $10,000 a month for rent and utilities a month. Plus $1.5 million for the building and range equipment which if on a 5 year loan is $33,000 a month to pay off. Plus another $5,000 for labor. That's $48,000 per month, or $1,600 day or $160 per hour not including other expenses and insurance. So at the $15 rate and 100% use all day every day with shooters not buying anything else, the range would be losing money.
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zippz is close.
500k for just the A/C system and filter system
The Target return system is kick ass. It can do auto distance and it also turns. you can set it on auto and and it will move back and forth in intervals and turn.
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Speedie could you define BYOA please. Can reloads be shot or is it BYOA factory ammo only?
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Reloads are allowed with the ELITE membership
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Since speedy is answering questions here, I have one.
I am ready to pull the trigger on the elite option.
But do all my guests need to have a permit? How can I intro a novice?
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Reloads are allowed with the ELITE membership
Will people be allowed to bring their own outside purchased ammo to the Gabby Franco classes, or are we going to be required to purchase ammo from the range?
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You know, this whole business about X Ring's range should have it's own thread...moderator can you make that happen?
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Just as a reference the indoor range in Hilo on the Big Island is $15/hr or $20/hr two people per lane but only one active shooter at a time, bring your own gun/ammo. If you rent a gun then you need to shoot their ammo if they have it or factory ammo. Rapid firing okay, holster draw only if RSO allows.
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Just as a reference the indoor range in Hilo on the Big Island is $15/hr or $20/hr two people per lane but only one active shooter at a time, bring your own gun/ammo. If you rent a gun then you need to shoot their ammo if they have it or factory ammo. Rapid firing okay, holster draw only if RSO allows.
That is pretty much the way it was on the mainland where I came from in OC.
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Topic split as requested.
So the $40 option, it still prohibits use one's reloads? Also
Dex, Please elaborate on the permit to aquire requirement. Is this for all shooters?
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Topic split as requested.
So the $40 option, it still prohibits use one's reloads? Also
Dex, Please elaborate on the permit to aquire requirement. Is this for all shooters?
+1, please do elaborate
I'm exempt for the permit/ registration "requirement" because I'm military, BUT my wife wouldnt be....so I can't bring my wife to shoot due to her not having a CURRENT permit/ registration ?!?! :wacko:
I want to use the range and think the Xring crew is great, but some of these things may be deal breakers.
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What about older stuff pre required registration?
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Definitely not liking the proof of registration <1 year and/or long arm permit requirement. So just because I haven't bought a gun within the past year, and have let my permit lapse, I can't use this range? No other range on Oahu, whether public or private, has such a requirement. This would also complete negate any tourist or visiting family use of the facilities. The fact that active duty military / LEO have an exemption is just plain wrong - reminds me of the special treatment for military / LEOs in the HRS 134.
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The fact that active duty military / LEO have an exemption is just plain wrong - reminds me of the special treatment for military / LEOs in the HRS 134.
What "special" treatment?
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JMHO When gas was $4 /gal depending on where you live, you were driving to the range and back, spending $25 in gas alone not to mention traffic. I think that the pricing structure is a little high, but not way off base. The further west you live, the more it makes sense. Im pretty delighted at the opportunity of another option actually.
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What "special" treatment?
Active Military and LEO are exempt from certain aspects of the HRS 134 firearms laws. More LEO than anything, but why any special carve-outs in the law? I have no issue with a discounted rate of admission.
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And what about the so called "reward" for writing letters of support for the range?
The range is a reality now.
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The range is a reality now.
I must have missed an earlier reference. Are you saying the offer was bogus just to get letters written, or what?
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The range is a reality now.
The membership fees are a reality to. ???
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JMHO When gas was $4 /gal depending on where you live, you were driving to the range and back, spending $25 in gas alone not to mention traffic. I think that the pricing structure is a little high, but not way off base. The further west you live, the more it makes sense. Im pretty delighted at the opportunity of another option actually.
The way I determine worthwhileness as far as cost is...
___miles rt x $0.50 = cost of roundtrip milage difference
___wage per hour x 50% x time rt = difference in cost of my time for round trip (I figure 1/2 of my normal wages)
So living in Aiea my cost is...
40 x $0.50 = $20 mileage
$30 x 50% x 1hr = $15
So I figure it costs me $35 in mielage and time difference between going to Koko Head and driving to X-ring. However I wouldn't have to lug around all my equipment around (frames, scopes, etc) and more features there. So I figure it's a draw between going to both places.
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The way I determine worthwhileness as far as cost is...
___miles rt x $0.50 = cost of roundtrip milage difference
___wage per hour x 50% x time rt = difference in cost of my time for round trip (I figure 1/2 of my normal wages)
So living in Aiea my cost is...
40 x $0.50 = $20 mileage
$30 x 50% x 1hr = $15
So I figure it costs me $35 in mielage and time difference between going to Koko Head and driving to X-ring. However I wouldn't have to lug around all my equipment around (frames, scopes, etc) and more features there. So I figure it's a draw between going to both places.
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A true gun guy can rationalize anything.
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"But Honey, I have to build another ar because our daughter is almost 3 years old and I have to be sure she can inherit one!"
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A true gun guy can rationalize anything.
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"But Honey, I have to build another ar because our daughter is almost 3 years old and I have to be sure she can inherit one!"
I said the same thing to my wife!
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If I'm not mistaken, all of us who wrote letters in support of the range were promised something with regards to membership.
Whatever it is, you can have mine, hound.
Thanks Q ! :shaka:
At least the range is a reality. :thumbsup:
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I think it will be good to practice Tactical Rifle at 50-75 Feet. Only get to do that at private ranges and other indoor ranges. or in the action bays.
For those of us who like to bump fire this is basically the only place beside other ranges that will let you.
32 Rounds of 9mm gone in a second from a 9mm AR
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Gonna be plenty "date nights" in Waipahu now. X ring then kunis :geekdanc:
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Or maybe kunis first then Xring.make it a little bit challenging hitting targets. :wacko:
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Or maybe kunis first then Xring.make it a little bit challenging hitting targets. :wacko:
(http://i.imgur.com/LB5tOTg.jpg)
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Knock it off guys or there may be a breathalyzer requirement :D
Violation of basic safe gun handling rules to begin with (there are more than 4 you should and probably know).
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Thank you x ring for having the balls to put everything on the line and roll the dice. Best of luck with your new venture!
Dave
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Or maybe kunis first then Xring.make it a little bit challenging hitting targets. :wacko:
Just don't make it a first date......imagine her/his reaction as you're driving at night and make that left turn on pupuole st. lol
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my fear is that the zipper mobile will get stuck again or traffic for the rail increases and nobody will be able to actually get to the range to use it. if it were open at night I'd go but during the day time, well koko head is still open then...
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Will the X-Ring Girl be the RSO? :worship:
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Just don't make it a first date......imagine her/his reaction as you're driving at night and make that left turn on pupuole st. lol
lol,it would probably be the :wtf:face.