Post by: Inspector on May 24, 2015, 08:23:52 AM
I did try loading some lead bullets I got from a friend but I don't think they were hard enough. And I was not impressed with them overall.
Before I start loading these I am curious to hear from others if they have tried reloading lead bullets in 300 Blackout?
Post by: dustoff003 on May 24, 2015, 09:20:39 AM
Post by: oldfart on May 24, 2015, 10:35:43 AM
But I know a little about cast bullets.
Generally, the diameter of the finished lead bullet would be a little bigger than a jacketed bullet.
So if the 300 bullet is normally .308, then a good place to start would be .309.
The other possible problem I see is neck tension.
Lead bullets are typically lubricated with something, eg. Grease or moly.
Those are slippery little bastards.
You might have a tendency for the bullet to set back hitting the feed ramp, or pull out under recoil.
The new generation of plastic coatings for lead bullets might work better....no grease
Sns casting makes a 115 gr plastic coated bullet sized at .309. Designed for 30 carbine.
They have sample packs of 100 for 9 bucks, plus shipping I presume.
Post by: Inspector on May 24, 2015, 10:44:02 AM
I don't know anything about 300 blkout.Thanks for the info OF. I have not had any probs with neck tension as I understand the need to use a lead bullet that is .001" to .002" over diameter. The source I use for cast bullets uses a home made proprietary lube which works quite well with blackpowder and smokeless powder in most applications I have used them for. I have not seen much in the way of set back or pull out because most of my loads with lead are of the reduced type. So I'll look out for this as I am working with them. I can always crimp if need be. But I must say the idea of plastic and/or moly coated bullets is very intriguing. If things don't work out with straight lead I will certainly look into these. Thanks again!!!
But I know a little about cast bullets.
Generally, the diameter of the finished lead bullet would be a little bigger than a jacketed bullet.
So if the 300 bullet is normally .308, then a good place to start would be .309.
The other possible problem I see is neck tension.
Lead bullets are typically lubricated with something, eg. Grease or moly.
Those are slippery little bastards.
You might have a tendency for the bullet to set back hitting the feed ramp, or pull out under recoil.
The new generation of plastic coatings for lead bullets might work better....no grease
Sns casting makes a 115 gr plastic coated bullet sized at .309. Designed for 30 carbine.
They have sample packs of 100 for 9 bucks, plus shipping I presume.
Post by: oldfart on May 24, 2015, 10:56:56 AM
I read somplace that bullets were moving around during feeding causing inaccuracy.
Interesting project.
Post by: talula on May 24, 2015, 12:32:44 PM
Post by: Inspector on May 24, 2015, 12:56:58 PM
Is it out of a bolt action or ar with DI. If DI it's a no go lead will plug the gas port.I forgot to say I am running an AR with DI. And I have read the same things you have about using lead bullets. For every person I found on the Internet that says they have had lead plug the gas port there is another saying that they have been running hard cast with gas checks for 1,000's of rounds with no plugging of the gas port. So who is right? I have personally been running hard cast with gas checks through my M1 Garand and have not seen the gas port get plugged with lead. But I am not sure how many rounds it would take to plug a gas port? I have not run more than a few hundred rounds through my Garand with lead so I guess I can't say yet. Worst comes worse I will clean out the gas port and tube and either continue or stop. I guess I'll find out some day. Thanks for your comments.
Post by: powder monkey on May 25, 2015, 03:29:12 PM
Post by: Inspector on May 25, 2015, 06:56:24 PM
heard of some loading 145-150 mil-spec fmj ($.18-$.19 ) with lil gun for sub load. need to have a pistol gas length to work. don't know how accurate the load is. able to get sub moa @ 50yds using 190-200 gr jacketed and 4198 and small pistol primers.It seems a lot of people are loading a proper subsonic load using a 200gr - 250gr lead bullet. Which is supposed to function okay in a DI carbine. The only reason I am not trying this is due to the disappointing accuracy people are getting with subsonic rounds. Seems subsonic loads without a can are not as accurate as supersonic loads. This applies to jacketed and lead bullets. Generally speaking of course. This AR already shoots sub MOA with jacketed bullets loaded to supersonic velocities. So I want to try something others are not trying just to see if I can do it and get it to work with reasonable accuracy.
Post by: Hi state on May 25, 2015, 08:16:43 PM
It seems a lot of people are loading a proper subsonic load using a 200gr - 250gr lead bullet. Which is supposed to function okay in a DI carbine. The only reason I am not trying this is due to the disappointing accuracy people are getting with subsonic rounds. Seems subsonic loads without a can are not as accurate as supersonic loads. This applies to jacketed and lead bullets. Generally speaking of course. This AR already shoots sub MOA with jacketed bullets loaded to supersonic velocities. So I want to try something others are not trying just to see if I can do it and get it to work with reasonable accuracy.If your wanting to shoot cast boolits at supersonic speeds you might wanna check out powder coating methods (EX.dry tumbling) which will let you do so with out leading issue.but your definitely going to want to have a coating over the boolit like hi-tek and might need a gas check.
Post by: Hi state on May 25, 2015, 08:32:35 PM
It seems a lot of people are loading a proper subsonic load using a 200gr - 250gr lead bullet. Which is supposed to function okay in a DI carbine. The only reason I am not trying this is due to the disappointing accuracy people are getting with subsonic rounds.You also shouldn't rely on other peoples issue with accuracy each firearm is different. There are a lot of people using cast boolits for subs and get good groupings with them and most likely will be your cheapest option for this platform
Post by: Tom_G on May 25, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
I forgot to say I am running an AR with DI. And I have read the same things you have about using lead bullets. For every person I found on the Internet that says they have had lead plug the gas port there is another saying that they have been running hard cast with gas checks for 1,000's of rounds with no plugging of the gas port. So who is right? I have personally been running hard cast with gas checks through my M1 Garand and have not seen the gas port get plugged with lead. But I am not sure how many rounds it would take to plug a gas port? I have not run more than a few hundred rounds through my Garand with lead so I guess I can't say yet. Worst comes worse I will clean out the gas port and tube and either continue or stop. I guess I'll find out some day. Thanks for your comments.
Think this through. If there's enough lead shedding by the time a bullet reaches the gas port to cause plugging, you would expect to see many other symptoms, such as keyholing or corkscrewing at the target at the minimum.
Post by: Heavies on May 26, 2015, 05:56:25 AM
Post by: justin1098 on May 26, 2015, 08:31:18 AM
For powders, W296 has been great for me. IMR4227 is not as good and runs at a higher pressure. I have a pound of lil gun that I haven't opened yet. A source of cheap bullets would be sweet for my experiments. I have a few that I loaded with m1 carbine bullets, just to see.
I have a hard time believing that lead shaved off the bullet would clog the already oversized gas port and hold back more than 30,000psi.
Post by: Inspector on May 26, 2015, 10:51:01 AM
Inspector, Let us know what you end up with. I am in the same boat as you and in my opinion, the accuracy and range of the 300BLK doesn't merit spending over 30 cents a bullet. Just sucks that the sierra 125gr OTM-FB bullets shoot way better than anything else I tried in my rifle.I will let you know Justin. I have been really busy lately and I have not been getting to the range much lately. But as soon as I get some results I will post them.
For powders, W296 has been great for me. IMR4227 is not as good and runs at a higher pressure. I have a pound of lil gun that I haven't opened yet. A source of cheap bullets would be sweet for my experiments. I have a few that I loaded with m1 carbine bullets, just to see.
I have a hard time believing that lead shaved off the bullet would clog the already oversized gas port and hold back more than 30,000psi.
I have tried most of the Sierra bullets, Hornady and a couple of others. But the bullets I found that shoot the best out of my gun are the Speer Hot Cor 130gr JHP and FN. I get them for $23/100. They are about the cheapest jacketed solution I have found so far without trying pulled or bulk bullets which I have not had a lot of good luck with.
I have had similar experience with H110 which is supposed to be exactly the same as W296. And I have had similar experience with IMR4227. I would like to hear what you think of Lil Gun if you try it.
I will let you know as well if my experiment doesn't work and I go with a heavy bullet and load it subsonic. I think my source might be able to come down a bit in price since I buy so much lead from him.
I believe the same as you about the lead. Though I don't want to say it can't happen either. It just seems most of the people who say it happens don't usually say it happened to them. Which to my thinking is that they are just repeating what they hear. While most of the people who say they have not had a problem are at least saying they are shooting lead. So before I come to a conclusion I want to make sure I put a lot of lead down range so I can figure out if it happens or not.
Post by: vjp808 on May 26, 2015, 04:36:25 PM
Item Name Image
.300 Blackout - Hi-Tek
.309 Diameter
245 Grain RNFP
Brinell 20
For Subsonic Work
Note: Approximately 238 grains @20 BHN
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating
Price per box of 250
Price: $40.00
.300 Blackout - Hi-Tek
Details
Post by: vjp808 on May 26, 2015, 04:40:23 PM
Post by: Heavies on May 26, 2015, 10:16:16 PM
Post by: powder monkey on May 27, 2015, 09:55:31 AM
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=141 (http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=141)
Post by: paulb3 on June 05, 2015, 09:21:30 AM
Haven't tried this just looked into it at one point.
Post by: Inspector on June 09, 2015, 12:12:04 PM
Post by: justin1098 on June 10, 2015, 06:19:04 PM
I loaded 10 only cartridges using the 135gr Lead Spire Point bullets mentioned earlier. I loaded them to approximately 2150fps using 18.5gr of H110. I used these rounds strictly for testing for proper function, signs of over pressure and ejecting issues. After the first 5 rounds passed all my tests and rang my gong at 100yds I tried shooting the last 5 at my 50yd target. I got a 2"-3" group. Considering I found lead bullets don't group as well over 2100fps as they do under that speed, I think I might see better groups by reducing the charge. So my first attempt at using supersonic lead loads in my 300 BLK looks promising. I'll update this later as I gain more data.
That's pretty hot. I hope you get better accuracy with lighter loads. What barrel are you using? What rate of twist?
Post by: Heavies on June 10, 2015, 09:29:44 PM
That's pretty hot. I hope you get better accuracy with lighter loads. What barrel are you using? What rate of twist?Yes, I was wondering that too. Twist for heavier (longer) bullet, going at reduced speeds, would need to be pretty quick. 1:7 1:8?
Post by: Inspector on June 11, 2015, 06:38:31 AM
That's pretty hot. I hope you get better accuracy with lighter loads. What barrel are you using? What rate of twist?I have a CMMG 16" barrel with a 1 in 7 twist. I get excellent accuracy using 125gr - 130gr with 17.0gr to 17.5gr of H110.
Post by: CoburnRacing on July 27, 2015, 09:39:18 AM
Post by: Inspector on November 26, 2015, 02:15:51 PM
Thanks to Old Mose as he turned me on to the Lyman AR Cartridge Reloading Manual. The manual has 2 loads for the 300 BLK using lead bullets. This is the first published Blackout loads using lead bullets that I have seen. The two bullets used weighed 160grs and 180grs. It just so happens I have a good supply of .308 (Sized .309) lead bullets in 166grs and 180grs. As far as powders are concerned it turns out I have two of the recommended powders. Those two are H4198 (I have IMR 4198 which is next to H4198 on the burn rate chart) and H335. I have a ton of H335 and it listed the most accurate load with the H335. So here is what I loaded using H335:
I will let everyone know how these shoot.
Post by: Inspector on February 02, 2016, 01:04:23 PM
I was able to shoot 166 grain LRN bullet sized to .309. I had a starting load of 15.5 grains of H335 and went up to 20.0 grains. The OAL was 2.100". I had absolutely no FTF or FTE with any of these loads. I started seeing pressure signs at 18.0 grains and stopped at 18.5 grains. At 18.5 grains I was getting nice just barely sub 1" groups. I took apart the remaining rounds as I didn't want to take the pressure signs any farther. I may get even better accuracy out of the 19.0 grain loads but I decided I was happy with what I got from 18.5 grains.
Next is 185 grain LRNFP sized to .309 using H335.