2aHawaii

General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: nathanm14fan on August 19, 2015, 08:36:25 AM

Title: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: nathanm14fan on August 19, 2015, 08:36:25 AM
Another anti-gun article by Civil Beat, with a very small comment by Sen. Slom at the end for "balance".  ::)

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/08/study-hawaiis-low-rate-of-gun-injuries-shows-strict-gun-control-laws-work/ (http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/08/study-hawaiis-low-rate-of-gun-injuries-shows-strict-gun-control-laws-work/)
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: Rocky on August 19, 2015, 08:59:22 AM
Dear John,

Hawaii's 2010 population was 1,360,301   about 1/9th of the second highest rated state, South Carolina.
Do the math.

Hawaii's 2014 population was 1,419,561

"Capt. Gerald Kaneshiro of the HPD’s Records Division thinks there are well over a million guns in the state, citing that many households own several guns."
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/are-there-more-guns-than-people-in-hawaii/
Again, please do the math
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: oldfart on August 19, 2015, 10:42:01 AM
If the author concludes that stricter laws= less injuries, then new york should have much less injuries.
Title: .
Post by: Q on August 19, 2015, 10:56:24 AM
.
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: dafrtknocker on August 19, 2015, 12:12:50 PM
Looks like the Brady Campaign took the NRA's gun laws map and gave all the "Rights Restricted - Very Limited Issue" states the best grades.

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws.aspx
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: Rocky on August 19, 2015, 12:42:56 PM
He somehow forgot to add DC, Califorina, NY and Illinois to this article.
And lets not forget Chi-town IL
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: HiCarry on August 19, 2015, 12:48:08 PM
Dear John,

Hawaii's 2010 population was 1,360,301   about 1/9th of the second highest rated state, South Carolina.
Do the math.

Hawaii's 2014 population was 1,419,561

"Capt. Gerald Kaneshiro of the HPD’s Records Division thinks there are well over a million guns in the state, citing that many households own several guns."
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/are-there-more-guns-than-people-in-hawaii/
Again, please do the math
Stating the rate (x per 100,000) of injuries rather than gross numbers accounts for population differences.
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: HiCarry on August 19, 2015, 12:49:21 PM
And lets not forget Chi-town IL
Or Vermont....
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: HiCarry on August 19, 2015, 12:51:11 PM
A reporter from the Civil Beat sent me a link to the article (after it was done and posted, and after I had just finished reading it via the link here...) so I relied to their email:

Quote
Thank you for the link. I had just finished reading the story when I saw your email.

Unfortunately, the reporter simply parroted the the finding of the study rather than review the information critically. 

Crime and the consequences of criminal activity are a complicated mix of societal factors. Blaming guns for high rates of crime or injury, or strict gun control laws as the sole reason for low gun crime and injury rate is simplistic at best and at worst, a gross distortion of causality. Vermont, which has very "lax" gun laws, including "Constitutional Carry" (meaning you do not need a permit to open or concealed carry a firearm), and Utah, another state with "lax" gun laws and permissive concealed carry laws, have a gun injury rate similar to Hawaii. California, Illinois, and Washington D.C., which have very restrictive gun and concealed carry laws, have gun injury rates that lead the nation. Clearly there are other factors besides just guns that are influencing these injury rates.

As all statistic students are told, correlation does not equal causation. A basic tenet that both your reporter and the study's authors apparently failed to grasp. 

Kind regards,
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: GZire on August 19, 2015, 01:04:28 PM
(http://eslhiphop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/snap.jpg)
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: aieahound on August 19, 2015, 01:39:39 PM
Exactly what I was thinking HiCarry.

They're just publishing a bad study.
That study would get a D at best in Stats 101.

1 variable and the States with strictest variable (gun laws) are at the other end of the conclusion ?  :wtf:

Well said HiCarry !  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: Inspector on August 19, 2015, 02:44:11 PM
We probably have the highest rate of guns per citizen, of any state, at around 70% (1,000,000 guns / 1,419,561 citizens = 70%). And one of the lowest rate of gun injuries means we have the best and safest gun owners in the U.S. and maybe the world! Is this a GREAT STATE or what?  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: mauidog on August 19, 2015, 07:12:52 PM
The main reason gun injuries are so low in Hawaii is the almost nonexistent influence of gangs here.  Organized crime like they have in cities like LA and Chicago just doesn't exist here.  Not to mention the vast majority of those shootings are with illegally possessed firearms!

It really bothers me that a so-called investigative journalist would try and explain Hawaii's low gun injury rates in a "gun control" vacuum!
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: robtmc on August 20, 2015, 09:41:09 AM
The main reason gun injuries are so low in Hawaii is the almost nonexistent influence of gangs here.  Organized crime like they have in cities like LA and Chicago just doesn't exist here.  Not to mention the vast majority of those shootings are with illegally possessed firearms!

It really bothers me that a so-called investigative journalist would try and explain Hawaii's low gun injury rates in a "gun control" vacuum!
Lack of ghettos and attendant culture has consequences?  How amazing?
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: nathanm14fan on August 25, 2015, 04:51:00 AM
TTAG has picked up the story...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/foghorn/study-claims-hawaiis-gun-control-laws-work-until-you-look-closely/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/foghorn/study-claims-hawaiis-gun-control-laws-work-until-you-look-closely/)
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 25, 2015, 06:51:53 PM
Im in an extended argument with a guy in the comments section of this article. Personally I think I am winning hehe.
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: mauidog on August 25, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
Im in an extended argument with a guy in the comments section of this article. Personally I think I am winning hehe.

Which side of the issue are you arguing in favor of?
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: Drakiir84 on August 26, 2015, 10:27:07 AM
Im in an extended argument with a guy in the comments section of this article. Personally I think I am winning hehe.

Tell us which poster you are and I'll tell you if you're winning.
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: macsak on August 26, 2015, 10:52:30 AM
Tell us which poster you are and I'll tell you if you're winning.

i got a huge headache from reading half of the comments
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: Drakiir84 on August 26, 2015, 11:19:10 AM
i got a huge headache from reading half of the comments

No shit lol... that John Kawamoto is some sort of special.  I just posted an extremely long winded uh... post...  Fortunately it was all copy paste lol..
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: macsak on August 26, 2015, 12:26:57 PM
No shit lol... that John Kawamoto is some sort of special.  I just posted an extremely long winded uh... post...  Fortunately it was all copy paste lol..

special is not the word i would use...
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 26, 2015, 05:49:53 PM
Tell us which poster you are and I'll tell you if you're winning.

I'm Matt Matt.  If you are Kainoa, thanks. That explained it much more eloquently and decisively than I probably ever could.
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: Drakiir84 on August 26, 2015, 05:50:34 PM
I'm Matt Matt.  If you are Kainoa, thanks. That explained it much more eloquently and decisively than I probably ever could.
Yeah that's me
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: HiCarry on August 27, 2015, 03:50:50 PM
special is not the word i would use...

I know John and yes, he is "some sort of special."

If you want to you can point out that at the end of the study, the authors themselves point out that no causal relationship can be determined from this study.

Quote
Limitations
There are limitations of this study to consider.
First, although we observed a strong
association between stricter firearm legislation
and lower nonfatal firearm injury discharge
rates, particularly for self-inflicted injuries,
the ecological, cross-sectional design of
this study limits our ability to determine
causality and to comment on the effect of
legislation on such injuries
[/u]. Second, these
results may be residually confounded by
differences in state characteristics that we
were unable to assess. Third, we measured
state firearm legislation using the Brady
score, a comprehensive scoring system that
has been used in similar studies but not
validated.20,21,53
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: macsak on August 27, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
I know John and yes, he is "some sort of special."

If you want to you can point out that at the end of the study, the authors themselves point out that no causal relationship can be determined from this study.

whoa, HiC, you know him in real life?
i wouldn't know whether to laugh in his face or punch him in the face if i ever met him

we've all met people like him before
every other sentence begins with "when i was at berkeley/harvard/etc" and "this one time, at band camp..."
Title: .
Post by: Q on August 27, 2015, 08:08:46 PM
.
Title: Re: Civil Beat: Hawaii’s Low Rate of Gun Injuries Shows Strict Gun-Control Laws Work
Post by: mauidog on August 27, 2015, 08:21:37 PM
These days,

I just watch this video and pretend it's all the liberal fucktards I despise getting RKO'd.

Makes me feel so much better.  :crazy:

I unwind by breaking out my GUN CONTROL DRONE BINGO board and see how many squares I can cover right after the media reports a public shooting.

My record is full blackout BINGO in 2 hours & 44min!

(http://i.imgur.com/6OqjdB6.jpg)