2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: mauidog on September 12, 2015, 09:38:09 PM
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Students can't remember 9/11, blame Bush and oil
As time passes, students on our nation's campuses continue to become further removed from the 9/11 attacks given their ages in 2001.
This year's freshmen were only four years old that day. YAF visited the campus of George Mason University to see how much students
know about the attacks and whether they think their professors should do a better job of educating them.
Video is a minute and a half long, but feels like much longer -- probably because my blood pressure was spiraling out of control! :wtf:
https://youtu.be/oZaQ3ZXPNUU
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Most of these people were probably about 14-15 when 9/11 occurred and not concerned with world issues.
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Most of these people were probably about 14-15 when 9/11 occurred and not concerned with world issues.
WWII ended 16 years before I was born, I still understood why we fought it when I was 14.
The problem is our children are being taught lies in an educational system that is a wholly owned subsidiary of the liberal left.
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Tell them it all started with the Russians and see what they say. Lol
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Because we owe them $$??
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Most of these people were probably about 14-15 when 9/11 occurred and not concerned with world issues.
Are you only concerned with world events that have taken place during your post-teen years? The first Gulf War in 1990 only lasted less than 9 months and pushed Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. The entire time between then and 9-11-2001 was peppered with air and missile strikes to defend the no-fly zone, keeping Iraq in effect unable to deploy air assets to support his ground troops. After 9-11, the UN weapons inspectors tried to ascertain the status of WMDs in Iraq, but Saddam Hussein used one excuse after another to delay and block the inspections. Finally, in 2003, we began Operation Iraqi Freedom in order to topple the regime under Saddam Hussein and oust him as the dictator there. Since then, we have been engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan to rid the world of the Taliban and Al Queda leadership and hopefully dismantle the worldwide terrorism network responsible for thousands of deaths of civilians globally. That effort is called Operation Enduring Freedom.
To me, if you've been alive during the last 14 years and are old enough to start college, you should at least be curious why your friends' parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, uncles, aunts, and so on are in the gulf region fighting a war. These are events happening TODAY and have been happening almost since the 9-11 attacks. Renewed interest should have been created after the Benghazi attack on 9-11-2012.
Please, don't try and tell me these students were too young to be concerned. They have had THEIR WHOLE LIVES to become concerned! Growing up during a period of armed conflict in which your own country's people are dying and coming home wounded should create at least some SELF INTEREST. If there's a chance the war is still happening when they reach 18, are they going to want to choose volunteering for service over college? it's a huge issue that every high school grad should at least be aware of.
And you might want to check your math. These student would have been 4 or 5 on 9-11-2001. They are 18-19 years old now.
Nowadays, age has little to do with it. The majority of Americans care more about pop culture and where they are eating dinner tonight than they care about world politics. The reason these kids are not concerned is because the people who influence them at home, at school and in the media teach them not to care. They continue to call it "Bush's War," but don't stop to think Obama is the Commander in Chief now, and he has been CinC LONGER while Americans have been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan THAN BUSH WAS IN OFFICE during the conflict! (Bush: 2003-2008 .... Obama: 2008-2015).
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Why did terrorists attack us on 9/11/2001 ?
Was it because we supported Israel ?
Because we meddled in the Middle East since the Gulf War ?
Was it Jihad, an Islamic crusade ?
Was it a rich psychopath with a Manson-like following x 10, Osama Bin Laden ?
All of the above ?
Something else ?
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Why did terrorists attack us on 9/11/2001 ?
Was it because we supported Israel ?
Because we meddled in the Middle East since the Gulf War ?
Was it Jihad, an Islamic crusade ?
Was it a rich psychopath with a Manson-like following x 10, Osama Bin Laden ?
All of the above ?
Something else ?
Do you not remember the FIRST attack on the WTC? In 1993, 1,336 pounds of explosives were detonated beneath the North Tower (Tower 1) hoping to bring it down and send it into Tower 2, bringing it down as well.
The attack was planned by a group of terrorists including Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh,
Nidal A. Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmed Ajaj. They received financing from Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, Yousef's
uncle. In March 1994, four men were convicted of carrying out the bombing: Abouhalima, Ajaj, Ayyad and Salameh. The
charges included conspiracy, explosive destruction of property, and interstate transportation of explosives. In November
1997, two more were convicted: Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind behind the bombings, and Eyad Ismoil, who drove the
truck carrying the bomb.
Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but this was justified because "the terrorism
that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one."
Osama Bin Laden vowed to return in the future and finish the job. Clinton had more than one opportunity to have Bin Laden erased, and he chose not to. That fact was documented in the 911 commission findings. Had Clinton acted, there may have never been a 911.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing
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Do you not remember the FIRST attack on the WTC? In 1993, 1,336 pounds of explosives were detonated beneath the North Tower (Tower 1) hoping to bring it down and send it into Tower 2, bringing it down as well.
Osama Bin Laden vowed to return in the future and finish the job. Clinton had more than one opportunity to have Bin Laden erased, and he chose not to. That fact was documented in the 911 commission findings. Had Clinton acted, there may have never been a 911.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing
Of course I remember the first attack.
So why did did terrorists attack us on 9/11/2001 ?
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Of course I remember the first attack.
So why did did terrorists attack us on 9/11/2001 ?
Osama Bin Laden vowed to return in the future and finish the job.
Same reason as the first attack. Their terrorism was supposedly their "answer" for what they characterized as terrorism perpetrated by Israel and our support of that nation.
Terrorism really doesn't have to make sense. It's designed to terrorize a population in hopes the people will pressure government into acquiescing to the terrorist's extortion demands.
The reason we supposedly have a policy of not negotiating with terrorists is, if they know where our pain tolerance threshold is, they will continue to cross that line. If we gave them what they wanted once before, they know we'll do it again if they threaten to cause the same or greater level of death and destruction
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Good point but I think you might be over-simplifying it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks
It's Wikipedia but with plenty of valid references listed.
I don't think many Americans know why they attacked us on 9/11/2001.
Not just the youngin's.
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Good point but I think you might be over-simplifying it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks
It's Wikipedia but with plenty of valid references listed.
I don't think many Americans know why they attacked us on 9/11/2001.
Not just the youngin's.
I used the terrorists own words. We can try and look for root causes all day long, but they will do nothing to prevent future attacks, and they will absolutely lend credibility to radical Islamics who choose terrorism to wage Jihad against the "Big Satan and Little Satan." It's an ideological root cause. I'm not over simplifying that. It's the truth. They can cite all the transgressions against them they want, but none of them warrant the level of carnage they cause on civilians globally, and the majority of their justifications don't even pass the "smell test" for plausibility.
No, the people who want to try and excuse these acts of terror against us are over complicating it. They try and look for what WE did to cause it. Blaming the victim just never gets old!!
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Well lucky for these little naive lumps of mush there WILL be another 9/11 in there lifetime so they will be able to witness it first hand. Hopefully the progressive liberal academia haven't brainwashed them to much to stand and fight for their freedoms when the time comes.
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I used the terrorists own words. We can try and look for root causes all day long, but they will do nothing to prevent future attacks, and they will absolutely lend credibility to radical Islamics who choose terrorism to wage Jihad against the "Big Satan and Little Satan." It's an ideological root cause. I'm not over simplifying that. It's the truth. They can cite all the transgressions against them they want, but none of them warrant the level of carnage they cause on civilians globally, and the majority of their justifications don't even pass the "smell test" for plausibility.
No, the people who want to try and excuse these acts of terror against us are over complicating it. They try and look for what WE did to cause it. Blaming the victim just never gets old!!
You used their own words for '93, not 2001.
I agree with most of the rest of your statement.
Definitely an ideological root cause.
I just don't think it's as simple as because we support Israel.
Well lucky for these little naive lumps of mush there WILL be another 9/11 in there lifetime so they will be able to witness it first hand. Hopefully the progressive liberal academia haven't brainwashed them to much to stand and fight for their freedoms when the time comes.
And it will and has happened again, though so far on a smaller scale.
Major Hassan
Boston Bombings
Recruiting/national guard attack
Etc....
For me 9/11 was my Kennedy assassination. Everyone our age remembers exactly where they were when it happened.
I still don't think very many Americans know why terrorists did the attack on 9/11.
I know not too many would answer because we support Israel.
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If you ever talk to a Muslim in a Middle Eastern country who is of average education and never ventures outside their own country, they will tell you what they have been taught since they were old enough to understand language.
The Jews are to blame for every bad thing in the world, both currently and historically. Anyone who supports the Jews are as much to blame as the Jews.
It's a very deep, vile hatred that can only come from ignorance and a religion that teaches that hatred. Their Quran says to kill all Jews, plain and simple.
Everything else they do flows from that belief system. The Arabs and Pakistanis I spoke to in the Middle East are like most of us when it comes to making a living, providing for their families, and going about their daily lives to hopefully better and enjoy their existence. Their politics and global view are jaundiced by a government and religion which teaches them what to think and dictates how they act. When military are deployed to the region, one of the mobility processing items is checking your dog tags. You are strongly urged to (1) ensure the religion on your tag is correct, (2) ensure some religion is listed, as no religion is viewed as a mortal sin, and (3) even more strongly encouraged to list something OTHER THAN JEWISH, for that could be instant death if somehow you fall into the wrong hands. you can "convert" back to Jewish when you leave that region :).
Maybe from our tolerant and intellectual ivory towers in the US, we have a lack of empathy for the mindset of those we are discussing here. To me, it's very clear what kind of hatred exists, and it's strong enough to make people voluntarily commit suicide in the name of Jihad against the Jews and their allies.
P.S. there was an obvious supply of Western brand products in Saudi, like Pepsi. Likewise, there was a lack of products and businesses known for worldwide commerce like Coke and Sears No businesses owned or run by Jews were allowed entry into their country. Even these companies' ads we may have had in magazines in our carry-on could have gotten us detained while they went through our duffle bags with a fine tooth comb.
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I don't see why everyone has to be obligated to care about world politics, especially young people, what's wrong with just leaving them be?
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Good reply MauiD.
But I doubt 95 % of Americans, old or young, educated or uneducated, could answer that question articulately, accurately or consistently.
It's not just current college students.
I don't see why everyone has to be obligated to care about world politics, especially young people, what's wrong with just leaving them be?
That was our philosophy before WWII.
Until Pearl Harbor.
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I don't see why everyone has to be obligated to care about world politics, especially young people, what's wrong with just leaving them be?
It's called good citizenship. You are a citizen of your town, state, country and the world. Good citizens have a duty to learn what their responsibilities are and to abide by those expectations.
If you don't care about world politics, then how can you intelligently evaluate the foreign policies of our presidential candidates? It's important to know whether their policies are in line with your own ideologies and ojectives for the nation.
If you want to "leave them be", does it not make sense to vote for candidates who also share in that "leave them be" policy?
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WWII ended 16 years before I was born, I still understood why we fought it when I was 14.
The problem is our children are being taught lies in an educational system that is a wholly owned subsidiary of the liberal left.
I was not referring to how it should be rather just how it is. I like history but in reality not everyone does and not everyone bothers to study it. We complain bout their lack of interest in politics or history but they might complain about our lack in interest in other subjects. That is just a reality of a population. Who knows how many people were interviewed though. Maybe they talked to a 100 people and only showed the ones who gave uneducated answers?
I wouldn't jump to say it is lies in the education system, I would suspect the media more than the education system.
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I still don't think very many Americans know why terrorists did the attack on 9/11.
I know not too many would answer because we support Israel.
I must admit that sometimes I think I don't fully understand why we were attacked. I know the reasons openly given but I wonder what ones are more hidden. I don't mean conspiracy theory like the government blew up the buildings, rather what information is being provided to us and what isn't? I am skeptical of ones that seem a little too much like blind patriotism. Lines such as "they attacked us because they don't like that we have freedom"
I think the truth is probably quite complicated. Some motives are clearly stated in messages and some aren't. Some can even be made up motives for propaganda.
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I was not referring to how it should be rather just how it is. I like history but in reality not everyone does and not everyone bothers to study it. We complain bout their lack of interest in politics or history but they might complain about our lack in interest in other subjects. That is just a reality of a population. Who knows how many people were interviewed though. Maybe they talked to a 100 people and only showed the ones who gave uneducated answers?
I wouldn't jump to say it is lies in the education system, I would suspect the media more than the education system.
"Those that cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." G. Santayana { Though some mistakenly attribute this to Churchill }
Revisionist history is taught throughout our public education system, assuming they teach "History" at all. For the most part they don't. They teach "Social Studies" which only pays lip service to history as it relates to "Culture". The failure to teach our children the cold hard facts about things like the Holocaust, National Socialism, Stalin and Marxism, Mao and Communism, have led us to where we are today. Millions of idiot young adults that think socialism is the way of the future. The attitudes of liberals towards conservatives says it all, they would see us put to death, after the fashion of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao's killing of hundreds of millions of dissenters, and feel righteous about it. We see it every day, on the internet where they wish death upon us for supporting the 2nd Amendment. In the media, with their tacit support of things like the "Black Lives Matter" movement that encourages the killing of whites. These people now represent almost half the population, and they would gleefully cheer and chant slogans while they watched us hang.
We don't teach our kids history because they "want" to learn it, but because they need to.
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"Those that cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." G. Santayana { Though some mistakenly attribute this to Churchill }
Revisionist history is taught throughout our public education system, assuming they teach "History" at all. For the most part they don't. They teach "Social Studies" which only pays lip service to history as it relates to "Culture". The failure to teach our children the cold hard facts about things like the Holocaust, National Socialism, Stalin and Marxism, Mao and Communism, have led us to where we are today. Millions of idiot young adults that think socialism is the way of the future. The attitudes of liberals towards conservatives says it all, they would see us put to death, after the fashion of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao's killing of hundreds of millions of dissenters, and feel righteous about it. We see it every day, on the internet where they wish death upon us for supporting the 2nd Amendment. In the media, with their tacit support of things like the "Black Lives Matter" movement that encourages the killing of whites. These people now represent almost half the population, and they would gleefully cheer and chant slogans while they watched us hang.
We don't teach our kids history because they "want" to learn it, but because they need to.
(http://i.imgur.com/jZk5eC2m.png)
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"Those that cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." G. Santayana { Though some mistakenly attribute this to Churchill }
Revisionist history is taught throughout our public education system, assuming they teach "History" at all. For the most part they don't. They teach "Social Studies" which only pays lip service to history as it relates to "Culture". The failure to teach our children the cold hard facts about things like the Holocaust, National Socialism, Stalin and Marxism, Mao and Communism, have led us to where we are today. Millions of idiot young adults that think socialism is the way of the future. The attitudes of liberals towards conservatives says it all, they would see us put to death, after the fashion of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao's killing of hundreds of millions of dissenters, and feel righteous about it. We see it every day, on the internet where they wish death upon us for supporting the 2nd Amendment. In the media, with their tacit support of things like the "Black Lives Matter" movement that encourages the killing of whites. These people now represent almost half the population, and they would gleefully cheer and chant slogans while they watched us hang.
We don't teach our kids history because they "want" to learn it, but because they need to.
I don't disagree with you but a school has so many subjects to teach that something is going to get left out. You can either cover lots of topics with little depth or a few topics in depth. So really, some of the burden relies on the individual to go out and learn more. Sifting through the information takes a lot of time and understanding however this is true of many subjects one can study whether it be history, science, art, etc. No one has time to have a complete understanding of all subjects relevant to our life so we rely on sources to synopsize information for us.
I would hesitate to have a school teach about political ideologies though as anything but basic tenants would seem to inevitably become biased in one direction or the other.
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I don't disagree with you but a school has so many subjects to teach that something is going to get left out. You can either cover lots of topics with little depth or a few topics in depth. So really, some of the burden relies on the individual to go out and learn more. Sifting through the information takes a lot of time and understanding however this is true of many subjects one can study whether it be history, science, art, etc. No one has time to have a complete understanding of all subjects relevant to our life so we rely on sources to synopsize information for us.
I would hesitate to have a school teach about political ideologies though as anything but basic tenants would seem to inevitably become biased in one direction or the other.
You're basically saying that, in 12-13 years of K-12 public or private school, there is no time to teach actual US history?
Maybe if the Hawaii schools spent more class time teaching US history instead of hula and 4 years of Hawaiian History and Culture, they could squeeze in some topics that make just as much, if not more, impact on the kids' futures? This school system has their priorities reversed. There should be more world and US subject matter and less Hawaii cultural class time. The grads have to compete for jobs and live in places where there are those educated outside of Hawaii. It's shortsighted to think a Hawaii cultural education is going to prepare them for life in a global community. I grew up in a region with a lot of Native American tribes, but I didn't learn tribal customs and dances in school -- that was what Boy Scouts was for!!
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they teach History in the Aiea District.
4th grade - Hawaiian history
5th grade - US history
6th grade - World history
7 th grade - Cultural history / Social Studies
8th grade - US history
high school - US government
They also offer AP History in government.
There's actually an AP test in History in which they can get college credit.
Official title of history was changed to Social Studies but they teach History.
Is it selective and have a left leaning curriculum ? Possibly, not sure.
p.s.
Gotta watch drunk history on the comedy channel.
Funnier than shit but informative.
http://www.cc.com/shows/drunk-history
My kids love it.
Addendum:
My son just told me that common core took out history/social studies.
Aiea does it by choice to help with writing skills and English.
Common core standards focus on SAT requirements of English, Math and then Science.
Dammit !
:stopjack:
I doubt 95 % of Americans, old or young, educated or uneducated, could answer that question (why terrorists attacked us on 9/11) articulately, accurately or consistently.
It's not just current college students.
I wonder what percentage of Americans could answer why we entered WWII accurately.
I bet a bunch would answer Hitler, his invasion of other countries and his treatment/extermination of Jews. (Which we didn't even know about.)
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How would you guys then respond to a student who hates America and doesn't accept your view of world history?
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You're basically saying that, in 12-13 years of K-12 public or private school, there is no time to teach actual US history?
Maybe if the Hawaii schools spent more class time teaching US history instead of hula and 4 years of Hawaiian History and Culture, they could squeeze in some topics that make just as much, if not more, impact on the kids' futures? This school system has their priorities reversed. There should be more world and US subject matter and less Hawaii cultural class time. The grads have to compete for jobs and live in places where there are those educated outside of Hawaii. It's shortsighted to think a Hawaii cultural education is going to prepare them for life in a global community. I grew up in a region with a lot of Native American tribes, but I didn't learn tribal customs and dances in school -- that was what Boy Scouts was for!!
Culture is a part of history. We could teach more history but we would have to drop something else. Obviously we don't want to drop science or math. We could drop music and art, but of course some people think those are important as well. As time goes on children have to learn more than we had to learn years ago so we lose some of the depth. The curriculum really needs to balance a lot of subjects. K-12 will never give you an in depth understanding of history any more than high school auto class will make you a mechanic. Some teachers might do a better job at it than others but I don't expect an in depth political analyses from K-12 school.
Besides, would you trust them to teach it the way you want your kids to know it? It is not their job to teach whether socialism is good or bad.