2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: jerry_03 on September 29, 2015, 11:07:28 AM
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I know this has been a topic here before and I read up on the previous threads. For those who dont know, Kaiser has a policy of automatically denying clearance for the permits (see attached form I got from my doctor). This past week when trying to get a handgun permit Kaiser flagged something and now I have to pay out of pocket through an outside doctor to get a medical clearance letter.
I find it odd that I was able to obtain a long gun permit and a handgun permit earlier this year while still having Kaiser and there were no problems at all, so I'm not sure what caused my latest clearance to be flagged.
Anyways if anyone else here experienced the same situation and know of any non-Kaiser doctors who are willing to take someone and to write a "medical clearance letter", I'd appreciate if you PM me their contact info.
Also HPD told me they have a sample letter on the format for the doctor to write the clearance letter. Anyone happen to have a picture or a scan of said sample letter? Save me the trip to go down to HPD to get it.
I appreciate any help
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How's about the Doctor that advertises in the HRA newsletter.(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/29/e0f6240e0bcb86940cb36fc270cf38b9.jpg)
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Too bad Kaiser plays these games. Although I'm not with them and never will be, I get disgusted hearing these stories. Other than finding a friendlier doctor, those who get shafted by Kaiser also need to get friendly legislators and make noise how Hawaii's gun laws and policies DO NOT WORK.. They don't have to be in your district. Make noise.
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Kaiser is dickless the way they treat firearms owners!
I went through the same BS, and now have to see a psychologist for clearance every year if i want to buy anything new
Its just BS, thats all, just BS!
sometime you had to have seen a psychologist at kaiser, or behavioral health
for whatever reason, they will red flag you
even if you went there bc you bite your fingernails or have nightmares, doesn't matter, they will red flag you and you are marked for life.
sending you a PM with letter and psychologist info
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yes it is indeed some major BS
thanks for the info guys and thanks for your PM stangzilla
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Kaiser is dickless the way they treat firearms owners!
sometime you had to have seen a psychologist at kaiser, or behavioral health
for whatever reason, they will red flag you
even if you went there bc you bite your fingernails or have nightmares, doesn't matter, they will red flag you and you are marked for life.
Kaiser sounds like the doctors and scientists of Nazi Germany. If you didn't support Adolph they sent you to an asylum for treatment. If asked questions about firearms by any doctor, insurance company, SSA or Census, I will refuse to answer.
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What is stupid about this is that they do not have to make any such evaluation. If they know of an incident or reason a person should not be allowed to own a firearm, they are obligated to inform HPD of this. That is my understanding of the request HPD sends to the doctors.. If there is no cause they are able to ignore the letter and you are good to go. This is entirely BS on the part of Kaiser and a purposeful infringement of rights, IMO.
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What is stupid about this is that they do not have to make any such evaluation. If they know of an incident or reason a person should not be allowed to own a firearm, they are obligated to inform HPD of this. That is my understanding of the request HPD sends to the doctors.. If there is no cause they are able to ignore the letter and you are good to go. This is entirely BS on the part of Kaiser and a purposeful infringement of rights, IMO.
Has anyone ever seen the letter/form/email/communication that HPD sends to Kaiser?
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Sounds like someone should get a news reporter to publish what Kaiser is doing. If you hit it in the wallets it will be forced to reconsider its current policy.
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If Kaiser directly causes the patient to suffer financial damages ON AN ANNUAL BASIS to get an outside opinion on mental health for owning guns, then the best choice is to name both HPD and Kaiser in a lawsuit,
Together, they are pointing fingers at each other, trying to deflect blame for the problem. I don't think this can be fixed unless a judge or mediator gets all parties to openly show what they are doing and why.
Simple question: How can Kaiser tell HPD you are unfit for gun ownership, and then when you complain that the info is wrong, Kaiser says they can't make a determination on your fitness for gun ownership? Their policies are inconsistent and in opposition of each other. If their second stance is their policy, then they should reply to HPD with the same thing when asked: We cannot evaluate the patient with regards to their fitness to own a gun. PERIOD!
:thumbsup:
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it is the same form that you fill out at HPD for medical clearance, only kaiser has their own form
it is nothing special really
heres the catch:
A DOCTOR NEVER SEES THE LETTER
it goes to the records dept and whoever looks at the letter looks up your records
if you ever went to behavioral health for whatever reason, you are red flagged
and then kaiser will not clear you
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I went through the same BS, and now have to see a psychologist for clearance every year if i want to buy anything new
Its just BS, thats all, just BS!
Who is claiming you have to see a psychologist every year? If a qualified medical person determines you are "no longer adversely affected" or as in the case of a mistake in the medical records, never adversely affected, there should be no grounds for a yearly reaffirmation of your status.
Most folks are aware of HIPAA, the federal law that protects patient privacy, but most are not aware that under HIPAA patients have a right to not only review their medical records, but to amend them if there is an error. If I were the OP I'd demand to see my records and see what information, if any, is causing the problem with HPD.
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I've seen this issue pop up quite a few times on the board, and I keep my fingers crossed that the next time I renew my permit that I won't be caught up in Kaiser's shenanigans. That being said, is the HRA or any other gun rights organization in the state actually DOING anything to help resolve this issue? Seems to me some effective lobbying could force Kaiser to revise some of their processes that are leading to these false-positive flags on member's medical records.
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heres catch #2:
when i spoke with kaiser's records dept, they said they dont make the call whether you are denied or not
they just report to hpd that you have seen behavioral health, thats why a doctor is not involved in the process
then HPD makes the detemination to deny you. both ends have no authority to deny us our 2A rights, based on these policies.
both policies are wrong! >:(
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heres catch #2:
when i spoke with kaiser's records dept, they said they dont make the call whether you are denied or not
they just report to hpd that you have seen behavioral health, thats why a doctor is not involved in the process
then HPD makes the detemination to deny you. both ends have no authority to deny us our 2A rights, based on these policies.
both policies are wrong! >:(
Can't HRA get in touch with NRA or NRA-ILA and see if a lawsuit against Kaiser be initiated by them? Or did HRA just say sorry Bro because we can't dictate policy to Kaiser?
Since it's the city (HPD) contact your councilman and let them know this kind of BS is going on and demand action. Also notify state legislators. Your individual rights as given by God and affirmed by the U.S. Bill of Rights is being denied by entities who themselves have no right to limit your freedoms. As someone else suggested call Action Line or Hawaii Reporter to get involved. Meanwhile, hit Kaiser in the pocketbooks and find another provider. Staying with them is like the abused wife staying with the abuser.
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Wait a minute. I have kaiser and I have purchased 2 hand guns & 4 long rifles here. The hand guns in the last 3 months.
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Wait a minute. I have kaiser and I have purchased 2 hand guns & 4 long rifles here. The hand guns in the last 3 months.
Nobody said Kaiser flags all patients HPD requests information on.
What seems to be happening is, if you have ever been referred for any Behavioral Medicine services, a low-level staffer may flag your request. The referral can be something as simple as counseling after being diagnosed with a chronic condition.
Once HPD gets the flagged request, they fail your background check and deny any future permits. I haven't heard of it happening, but they may use that denial to separate you from any existing guns you own!
So, unless you have been to Kaiser for counseling, addiction treatment, or other mental health services, you should not have to worry.
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makes me glad i got hmsa lol
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What I want to know is if HPD actually follows the law when you have sought out treatment, and have clearance from your health care provider that the condition you have no longer adversely effects your ability to own/possess firearms.
Anyone have any experience?
Yes.
That is what they're looking for.
A clearance letter from a psychologist saying you are no longer affected and are mentally fit to own a firearm.
And that part makes sense.
But the part that doesn't is that you could've went to see behavioral health bc your grades were dropping, or you have stress.
Doesn't necessarily dq you from firearms.
Now there's a huge inconvenience that is unnecessary in some cases.
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Nobody said Kaiser flags all patients HPD requests information on.
What seems to be happening is, if you have ever been referred for any Behavioral Medicine services, a low-level staffer may flag your request. The referral can be something as simple as counseling after being diagnosed with a chronic condition.
Once HPD gets the flagged request, they fail your background check and deny any future permits. I haven't heard of it happening, but they may use that denial to separate you from any existing guns you own!
So, unless you have been to Kaiser for counseling, addiction treatment, or other mental health services, you should not have to worry.
My friend was referred by Kaiser to take nutrition classes due to his diabetes. Guess which section of of Kaiser the nutrition classes comes under? Behavioral Medicine. What I was told is the low level staffer is supposed to look at the category number of the Behavioral Medicine referral and will flag your request based on the category number. Certain category numbers are supposed to be flagged and others not. What I have heard is that the staffer sometimes doesn't bother to look up the category number. They just flag the request.
I was told if you call the supervisor and speak with them they can tell you if you were incorrectly flagged or not.
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Does it have to be a psychologist or any type of qualified physician if you have received or are receiving mental health treatment?
I don't seen any specific wording in HRS 134-7 that states the official clearing the individual must be a mental healthcare provider:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol03_ch0121-0200d/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0007.htm (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol03_ch0121-0200d/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0007.htm)
Like I said in the past, this is one of the many reasons vets don't get the help they need because we end up getting screwed for doing the right thing by seeking help, so many of us would rather just deal with it until we can't, rather than lose our rights and freedoms.
And people wonder why so many vets are so paranoid.
can be any licensed physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist.
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My friend was referred by Kaiser to take nutrition classes due to his diabetes. Guess which section of of Kaiser the nutrition classes comes under? Behavioral Medicine. What I was told is the low level staffer is supposed to look at the category number of the Behavioral Medicine referral and will flag your request based on the category number. Certain category numbers are supposed to be flagged and others not. What I have heard is that the staffer sometimes doesn't bother to look up the category number. They just flag the request.
I was told if you call the supervisor and speak with them they can tell you if you were incorrectly flagged or not.
Whoa gotta remember but not to take anything/classes from Kaiser Med.
Nowdays you have to be careful about what prescription meds, questions or even feedback. If the Nazis had this kind of technology and laws, they would be a superpower today.