2aHawaii
General Topics => Preparedness and Survival => Topic started by: Growler67 on October 06, 2011, 03:47:47 PM
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From my formaer Gun Club: http://www.whistlingpinesgunclub.com/index.php/2011/09/our-observations-on-a-home-invasion/ (http://www.whistlingpinesgunclub.com/index.php/2011/09/our-observations-on-a-home-invasion/)
Of course in Colorado, there is the "Make My Day Law" which has NO duty to retreat and if deemed a justified shoot you are free from criminal prosecution.
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From my formaer Gun Club: http://www.whistlingpinesgunclub.com/index.php/2011/09/our-observations-on-a-home-invasion/ (http://www.whistlingpinesgunclub.com/index.php/2011/09/our-observations-on-a-home-invasion/)
Of course in Colorado, there is the "Make My Day Law" which has NO duty to retreat and if deemed a justified shoot you are free from criminal prosecution.
Castle Doctrine.
Hawaii has it too.
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I understood Hawaii has a duty to retreat. Maybe I misunderstood.
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I understood Hawaii has a duty to retreat. Maybe I misunderstood.
It used to.
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I understood Hawaii has a duty to retreat. Maybe I misunderstood.
It used to.
Hawaii has a duty to retreat outside of your home.
Inside your noise, there is no such obligation.
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I understood Hawaii has a duty to retreat. Maybe I misunderstood.
It used to.
Hawaii has a duty to retreat outside of your home.
Inside your noise, there is no such obligation.
I thought that even inside the residence you had to give the "intruder" option of retreat before using deadly force?? Did that change recently, or has it always been that way?
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I understood Hawaii has a duty to retreat. Maybe I misunderstood.
It used to.
Hawaii has a duty to retreat outside of your home.
Inside your noise, there is no such obligation.
I thought that even inside the residence you had to give the "intruder" option of retreat before using deadly force?? Did that change recently, or has it always been that way?
Changed right before last GOV left office.
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I understood Hawaii has a duty to retreat. Maybe I misunderstood.
It used to.
Hawaii has a duty to retreat outside of your home.
Inside your noise, there is no such obligation.
I thought that even inside the residence you had to give the "intruder" option of retreat before using deadly force?? Did that change recently, or has it always been that way?
Changed right before last GOV left office.
Ok, thanx....that's good info to know!! :shaka:
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Of note is there are home invasions here, but not a reported use of the Castle Doctrine yet.... :wacko:
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This is a very good question. As I understand that law, outside your home you are required to retreat if you can do so in perfect safety. Inside your house, it sounds like pretty standard use of deadly force self-defense law. I haven't seen anything like some other states with stronger Castle Doctrines have, for example, in some states, if someone has broken into the structure you're occupying then deadly force is authorized. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Hawaii's Castle law only protects you from civil suits if you the shoot is deemed justified.
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This is a very good question. As I understand that law, outside your home you are required to retreat if you can do so in perfect safety. Inside your house, it sounds like pretty standard use of deadly force self-defense law. I haven't seen anything like some other states with stronger Castle Doctrines have, for example, in some states, if someone has broken into the structure you're occupying then deadly force is authorized. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Hawaii's Castle law only protects you from civil suits if you the shoot is deemed justified.
i also thought i can only shoot if the invader is trying to kill,rape, etc.
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This is a very good question. As I understand that law, outside your home you are required to retreat if you can do so in perfect safety. Inside your house, it sounds like pretty standard use of deadly force self-defense law. I haven't seen anything like some other states with stronger Castle Doctrines have, for example, in some states, if someone has broken into the structure you're occupying then deadly force is authorized. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Hawaii's Castle law only protects you from civil suits if you the shoot is deemed justified.
i also thought i can only shoot if the invader is trying to kill,rape, etc.
You need to read the law.
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From the way I read the law, it can be a sticky situation. You have to believe the intruder is committing a felony (whatever that means to the normal lay man). As always, consult a lawyer before giving a statement and you feared for your life.
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This is a very good question. As I understand that law, outside your home you are required to retreat if you can do so in perfect safety. Inside your house, it sounds like pretty standard use of deadly force self-defense law. I haven't seen anything like some other states with stronger Castle Doctrines have, for example, in some states, if someone has broken into the structure you're occupying then deadly force is authorized. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Hawaii's Castle law only protects you from civil suits if you the shoot is deemed justified.
i also thought i can only shoot if the invader is trying to kill,rape, etc.
I read it as this.
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http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/bills/SB532_CD1_.pdf (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/bills/SB532_CD1_.pdf)
to me it sounds like, if someone is on your property and "any reasonable person" believes a felony is being committed........... shoot the bastard! :thumbsup:
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http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/bills/SB532_CD1_.pdf (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/bills/SB532_CD1_.pdf)
to me it sounds like, if someone is on your property and "any reasonable person" believes a felony is being committed........... shoot the bastard! :thumbsup:
What constitutes a "felony" to the average lay person? Theft of how much? It's easy to determine "threat of bodily harm or injury" when someone is agressively coming towards you, but I don't like the idea of having to watch a burglury/theft in progrerss until a specific dollar amount is reached for it to classify the crime as a felony before I open fire. THAT is too much "Aloha Spirit" and the perp was wrong for entering my home to begin with.
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What constitutes a "felony" to the average lay person? Theft of how much? It's easy to determine "threat of bodily harm or injury" when someone is agressively coming towards you, but I don't like the idea of having to watch a burglury/theft in progrerss until a specific dollar amount is reached for it to classify the crime as a felony before I open fire. THAT is too much "Aloha Spirit" and the perp was wrong for entering my home to begin with.
i agree!
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I'm not qualified to give legal advice but from the way I understand it you will be arrested no matter what, and generally it's a good idea to not make any statements to the cops until you have a lawyer present. I also heard that it's in your best interest to call 911 if possible BEFORE the confrontation and let them record what happens on the phone so in court they can hear you shouting a warning to the person before you fill them full of jhp's or buckshot. No matter what you'll need to call 911 and describe yourself, tell them that you shot someone invading your house, and probably ask them to do with your weapon when the cops get there.
Also take into consideration that dead people don't make very good witnesses, but follow-up execution-style shots or crushing their skull with a dumbell as they lay there helpless and bleeding will get you a prison term for sure.
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http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/bills/SB532_CD1_.pdf (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/bills/SB532_CD1_.pdf)
to me it sounds like, if someone is on your property and "any reasonable person" believes a felony is being committed........... shoot the bastard! :thumbsup:
What constitutes a "felony" to the average lay person? Theft of how much? It's easy to determine "threat of bodily harm or injury" when someone is agressively coming towards you, but I don't like the idea of having to watch a burglury/theft in progrerss until a specific dollar amount is reached for it to classify the crime as a felony before I open fire. THAT is too much "Aloha Spirit" and the perp was wrong for entering my home to begin with.
Burglary, Robbery, breaking and entering with the intent to comment afforementioned = felony.
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if i'm reading correctly, in paragraph F, it also says that you don't have to warn the perp... somebody correct me if im wrong please.
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What constitutes a "felony" to the average lay person? Theft of how much? It's easy to determine "threat of bodily harm or injury" when someone is agressively coming towards you, but I don't like the idea of having to watch a burglury/theft in progrerss until a specific dollar amount is reached for it to classify the crime as a felony before I open fire. THAT is too much "Aloha Spirit" and the perp was wrong for entering my home to begin with.
Burglary, Robbery, breaking and entering with the intent to comment afforementioned = felony.
I realize that this is an old thread. I simply wish to clarify statements made with regard to perpetration of a "felony" and what would be considered a justified shoot.
SB532 SD1 HD1 CD1, page 2, lines 1 through 8 define which felonies this bill applies to: murder or attempted murder, any class A felony, any class B felony involving violence or physical harm, and if the perpetrator used a firearm or a dangerous or deadly weapon.
Although burglary is a class B felony, the shoot is not justfied unless violence or physical harm is involved. So, shooting (especially in the back) the perpetrator is not justified if they are simply stealing your stuff.
I agree with sirkaiks, Growler67, and vooduchikn, but as I have seen in other threads on this forum, it is the law - well or poorly written as it may be. At least this bill is a step in the right correct direction.
Any thoughts? ???
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1. Scream out "oh my god he's got a knife!"
2. Blast him full of holes.
3. Drop a knife next to where his hand is.
problem solved. you're welcome.
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1. Scream out "oh my god he's got a knife!"
2. Blast him full of holes.
3. Drop a knife next to where his hand is.
problem solved. you're welcome.
BTW don't consult a lawyer about this because they will get a sand-grain in their manginas and tell you it's illegal or something. Whatever. Cops do this kind of stuff all the time. Just don't screw it up and you won't get caught. And don't use your awesome $200 chef's knife either because it will be sitting in an evidence locker for a really long time.
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BTW don't consult a lawyer about this because they will get a sand-grain in their manginas and tell you it's illegal or something. Whatever. Cops do this kind of stuff all the time. Just don't screw it up and you won't get caught. And don't use your awesome $200 chef's knife either because it will be sitting in an evidence locker for a really long time.
Also this advice only applies to a universe where only men exist. Once you add females into the equation it gets all weird and emotional and nothing really makes sense any more. Also you won't have as much money for bullets and extra knives because chances are most of it got spent on shoes, mani-pedi's, and yoga classes.
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Just to add a little to the legal end of this discuss,,,
when I took the pistol class over here a few years ago, the county prosecuter spoke to us, he said that you had to have the perception that the person was going to cause bodily harm or death to you or your family, not much was said about the definition other than that the word "perception" left a lot of grey areas, so in other words it is best to hold the story that you thought the person had a gun or weapon, or was going to kill or harm you or your family,,,
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Just to add a little to the legal end of this discuss,,,
when I took the pistol class over here a few years ago, the county prosecuter spoke to us, he said that you had to have the perception that the person was going to cause bodily harm or death to you or your family, not much was said about the definition other than that the word "perception" left a lot of grey areas, so in other words it is best to hold the story that you thought the person had a gun or weapon, or was going to kill or harm you or your family,,,
That prosecutor is a retard.
So now i have to clairvoyant when a perp breaks in my home in the middle of the night? Nope.
I automatically assume he is there to do harm. Knives and guns are not required to kill or inflict serious bodily harm. Hands work just fine, especially on women and children.
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1. Scream out "oh my god he's got a knife!"
2. Blast him full of holes.
3. Drop a knife next to where his hand is.
problem solved. you're welcome.
Excellent! :worship:
Not that I plan to act as such . . . ;)
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Just to add a little to the legal end of this discuss,,,
when I took the pistol class over here a few years ago, the county prosecuter spoke to us, he said that you had to have the perception that the person was going to cause bodily harm or death to you or your family, not much was said about the definition other than that the word "perception" left a lot of grey areas, so in other words it is best to hold the story that you thought the person had a gun or weapon, or was going to kill or harm you or your family,,,
like you said, this was a few years ago. The castle doctrine was not passed until 2010. And I agree with voodoo, the perp doesn't need to have a weapon to make you fear for your life.
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And I agree with voodoo, the perp doesn't need to have a weapon to make you fear for your life.
Mahalo for the reminder. Fear for my life and others justifies use of deadly force every time! :shaka:
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Just the fact that some ass hole is trying to get into my house justifies deadly force, if its only me home most likely will just dig a hole with my tractor and cover their lame ass with dirt and forget about it. plant a bananna corm on it >:D
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Just the fact that some ass hole is trying to get into my house justifies deadly force, if its only me home most likely will just dig a hole with my tractor and cover their lame ass with dirt and forget about it. plant a bananna corm on it >:D
Brah, you're sick, disgusting and politically incorrect.
Are we related?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Brah, you're sick, disgusting and politically incorrect.
Are we related?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Bwahahahahha to funny, to funny. :)
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Why yes,, yes I am 8) :shaka:
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Why yes,, yes I am 8) :shaka:
Eh, you wuz joking? I thought it was a great idea - at least make "good" use of the perp as fertilizer . . . :shake:
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I have a suggestion. Since questions about when you can and cannot use deadly force in your home, on your property or in public are raised frequently, I suggest we have a flow chart for each. Anytime someone asks, "Can I shoot da bugga?", we can simply turn to the flow chart. If I have some time, I'll see if I can either find an existing one or if not, put something together, for the forum members to "chew on" and tweak.
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I have a suggestion. Since questions about when you can and cannot use deadly force in your home, on your property or in public are raised frequently, I suggest we have a flow chart for each. Anytime someone asks, "Can I shoot da bugga?", we can simply turn to the flow chart. If I have some time, I'll see if I can either find an existing one or if not, put something together, for the forum members to "chew on" and tweak.
Do it! That'll be cool to see the different options all on one flow chart.
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I talked to my friend who is a Sargent and he said to do what Hvy said. Yell out something so people around can verify u gave a warning. Shoot his ass, mak sure u KILL HIM ( no witnesses, as sad as it sounds) and put a knife by him for assurance. Even he agreed the law is bullshit about commuting a felony. There's no reason for a perp to be in ur house unless he's planning on doing something.
By law u will be arrested because they need to make an arrest after a homicide. But prosecutin u will be very hard without the perp (victim/witness) to testify against u.
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1. Scream out "oh my god he's got a knife!"
2. Blast him full of holes.
3. Drop a knife next to where his hand is.
problem solved. you're welcome.
This plan sounds f'n GREAT to me!! :thumbsup:
Just the fact that some ass hole is trying to get into my house justifies deadly force, if its only me home most likely will just dig a hole with my tractor and cover their lame ass with dirt and forget about it. plant a bananna corm on it >:D
This one too!! :thumbsup: Except I don't have a farm, Kula....you need any fertilizer?! LMAO!!
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Love how they use the reasonable citizen factor similar to reasonable officer standard. You can google it for more information.