Post by: palaina.kawika on October 21, 2015, 10:45:52 AM
need some advice. school after boot camp is at DLI in Monterey, CA. may end up spending up to 2 years there if i get a category IV language.
my dilemma: i have an AR built on an OGC spikes lower (will be CA legal if i install a bullet button), and an M4 clone for my wife built on a palmetto lower (not CA legal because of the palmetto brand).
if i don't want to molest my lower with a bullet button and don't want to get rid of my wife's lower, and would rather leave them with my brother here in Oahu, do i have to transfer them to him or can they stay in my name?
Post by: Drakiir84 on October 21, 2015, 01:56:36 PM
Post by: Colt808 on October 21, 2015, 03:28:31 PM
Aloha guys,The procedures related to registration for out of state military suck. Leave them here. As long as your brother has and maintains a permit to acquire, you don't need to transfer.
need some advice. school after boot camp is at DLI in Monterey, CA. may end up spending up to 2 years there if i get a category IV language.
my dilemma: i have an AR built on an OGC spikes lower (will be CA legal if i install a bullet button), and an M4 clone for my wife built on a palmetto lower (not CA legal because of the palmetto brand).
if i don't want to molest my lower with a bullet button and don't want to get rid of my wife's lower, and would rather leave them with my brother here in Oahu, do i have to transfer them to him or can they stay in my name?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2015, 03:43:13 PM
But to answer your question, what is the purpose of the gun you want? Maybe just buy something in a different category for use up there? Try out the pump action AR15!
Post by: Inspector on October 21, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
Stupid question, but why is the palmetto brand AR illegal in california? Is it not a mil spec regular ar?The best answer anyone can give you is .... Because they can. LOL!!!! That is how the LIBTARDS in Kalifornia ban so called "Assault Weapons". They can't justify it any other way except by brand name. Diane Feinstein tried to ban them by features and the manufacturers got around that. Easily. So they just started naming them by brand and model. I had an AR that was banned by brand name. I drove it to Arizona and sold it.
So to be honest, the only way you will get a real answer to your question is to ask Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer why they want to ban so called "Assault Weapons" by name. The real answer is truly... Because they can.
Post by: palaina.kawika on October 22, 2015, 11:42:30 AM
Personally I wouldn't molest the firearm. I'd keep it intact and in storage and would buy a CA legal gun for defense up there.
yeah not quite worried about that as much. my shotgun is 50 state compliant. more worried about storing my evil black guns here for up to 2.5 years
Post by: Drakiir84 on October 22, 2015, 11:45:22 AM
Post by: palaina.kawika on October 22, 2015, 11:46:06 AM
The procedures related to registration for out of state military suck. Leave them here. As long as your brother has and maintains a permit to acquire, you don't need to transfer.
he does indeed have one at the moment. are you saying he has to renew his every year in order for my guns to be at his house?
Post by: palaina.kawika on October 22, 2015, 11:46:37 AM
No friends or famiky to leave em with?
LMAO was my post so long that you didn't bother reading to the end?
Post by: Drakiir84 on October 22, 2015, 11:47:44 AM
Post by: palaina.kawika on October 22, 2015, 11:57:21 AM
Stupid question, but why is the palmetto brand AR illegal in california? Is it not a mil spec regular ar?
But to answer your question, what is the purpose of the gun you want? Maybe just buy something in a different category for use up there? Try out the pump action AR15!
yeah like Inspector said, they couldn't pull off banning AR-15s outright so they just put a bunch of manufacturers' names into legislation and classified the rifles made by those manufacturers "Assault Rifles." legal to keep if they were owned in CA prior to the ban but had to be registered. illegal to bring into the state. my wife's Palmetto lower is identical to my Spike's lower besides the brand. LOL
to answer your question, i have already decided that (if i actually get any shooting time while in school) i'll be dedicating my California time to pistols and bolt action. they've successfully neutered the AR-15 in California to where it just wouldn't be fun to even try. maybe a semi-auto sniper system, but rather spend the money on a bolt gun.
Post by: Drakiir84 on October 22, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
he does indeed have one at the moment. are you saying he has to renew his every year in order for my guns to be at his house?
The permit is only necessary to acquire, not to own. He can have them indefinitely without an active permit.
Post by: aieahound on October 22, 2015, 01:15:17 PM
Would any additional registration be required or would the brothers house just be considered a place to store ?
Post by: dustoff003 on October 22, 2015, 02:23:16 PM
Someone who knows pipe in here because I thought you could loan a long rifle for only x number of days.
Would any additional registration be required or would the brothers house just be considered a place to store ?
From:
HRS §134-4 (c) Any lawfully acquired rifle or shotgun may be lent to an adult for use within the State for a period not to exceed fifteen days without a permit; provided that where the rifle or shotgun is to be used outside of the State, the loan may be for a period not to exceed seventy-five days.
(d) No person shall knowingly lend a firearm to any person who is prohibited from ownership or possession of a firearm under section 134-7.
Who's to say when that 15 day period started?
Post by: mauidog on October 22, 2015, 03:49:31 PM
From:
HRS §134-4 (c) Any lawfully acquired rifle or shotgun may be lent to an adult for use within the State for a period not to exceed fifteen days without a permit; provided that where the rifle or shotgun is to be used outside of the State, the loan may be for a period not to exceed seventy-five days.
(d) No person shall knowingly lend a firearm to any person who is prohibited from ownership or possession of a firearm under section 134-7.
Who's to say when that 15 day period started?
Here are a couple of options:
(1) Get a small long gun safe, and install it in your brother's place. Don't give anyone the combination/keys. That way, you still own and have control over the guns. Prep the guns well for long term storage (clean, lube, anti-moisture package) and lock them up. For shipping, if you aren't returning to Hawaii, give the brother the combo (or send the key), and have them shipped. Donate the safe as payment for storage for 2 years.
(2) Strip the guns down to the lower receivers. Take the full uppers and lower parts to CA with you, but leave the lowers packaged for long term storage. These will fit in a regular pistol lock box for way less than the cost and footprint of a safe. Keep the combo/key with you. When ready to take possession again, have the receivers, lock box and all, shipped to you. Be sure to pad the interior in advance for the shipping.
I've not done this, but it seems a good way to avoid all the HPD and FFL stumbling blocks. The brother won't need a permit at all since he won't have access to the rifles/lowers inside the storage container.
Aloha! :shaka:
Post by: zippz on October 22, 2015, 04:15:41 PM
If you keep your rifles on Oahu with someone to hold, then you should transfer it to them since you'll be gone for so long. Legally you can only loan a rifle to someone for up to 15 days. If something bad happens, going to be hard to explain how you loaned it to them from California for 15 days..
Post by: mauidog on October 22, 2015, 05:08:30 PM
Example, PSA sells CA compliant PSA-branded lowers with the bullet button installed.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14405/
I wasn't sure if your wife's gun is actually the Palmetto brand & SGA model, or just a PSA. People sometimes assume they are the same.
I realize the bullet button mod is a show stopper, but I thought I'd throw that out there.
Post by: palaina.kawika on October 22, 2015, 09:37:31 PM
The info I read says only the "Palmetto SGA (All)" model Assault Weapon is prohibited. Palmetto is NOT Palmetto State Armory. And, the receiver has to have "SGA" on it to be the banned model.
Example, PSA sells CA compliant PSA-branded lowers with the bullet button installed.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14405/
I wasn't sure if your wife's gun is actually the Palmetto brand & SGA model, or just a PSA. People sometimes assume they are the same.
I realize the bullet button mod is a show stopper, but I thought I'd throw that out there.
hot damn if thats the case then i just might have to take mine with me and just install the damn button so i can hang on to them. i'd feel better if they were in my possession (not that i don't trust my brother).
just didn't want to bother taking my AR with me if i ended up having to leave my wife's here. she loves that thing
Post by: Colt808 on October 22, 2015, 10:23:11 PM
The permit is only necessary to acquire, not to own. He can have them indefinitely without an active permit.Incorrect. A valid and current permit is a requirement for any loan exceeding 15 days. The statute is very clear on this (see below).
From:Anyone who truly supports gun rights, will stand behind the statement that, (WE) "gun owners are law abiding citizens". It is the cornerstone of any argument against new regulations that "only hurt those who follow the law". When we start getting into the whole, "What they don't know, can't hurt me" type of thinking....that's when we've lost the moral high ground of the argument.
HRS §134-4 (c) Any lawfully acquired rifle or shotgun may be lent to an adult for use within the State for a period not to exceed fifteen days without a permit; provided that where the rifle or shotgun is to be used outside of the State, the loan may be for a period not to exceed seventy-five days.
(d) No person shall knowingly lend a firearm to any person who is prohibited from ownership or possession of a firearm under section 134-7.
Who's to say when that 15 day period started?
The answer to the question is: 15 days starts as soon as he leaves the island and gives up direct control/access of the firearm.
hot damn if thats the case then i just might have to take mine with me and just install the damn button so i can hang on to them. i'd feel better if they were in my possession (not that i don't trust my brother).You're free to do what you think is right. But consider the fluidity of California gun laws and how what is legal today, may not be tomorrow. You're going to be there on orders, you can't just up and leave if something changes. And I can not stress enough how the process of registration is a hassle. Just buy something after you get there if you're afraid of the rainbow zombie hoard in the bay area.
just didn't want to bother taking my AR with me if i ended up having to leave my wife's here. she loves that thing
Also, something to consider...leaving them in state allows you to "grandfather" them in if anything changes here. :thumbsup:
Post by: dustoff003 on October 23, 2015, 04:53:28 AM
Here are a couple of options:
(1) Get a small long gun safe, and install it in your brother's place. Don't give anyone the combination/keys. That way, you still own and have control over the guns. Prep the guns well for long term storage (clean, lube, anti-moisture package) and lock them up. For shipping, if you aren't returning to Hawaii, give the brother the combo (or send the key), and have them shipped. Donate the safe as payment for storage for 2 years.
(2) Strip the guns down to the lower receivers. Take the full uppers and lower parts to CA with you, but leave the lowers packaged for long term storage. These will fit in a regular pistol lock box for way less than the cost and footprint of a safe. Keep the combo/key with you. When ready to take possession again, have the receivers, lock box and all, shipped to you. Be sure to pad the interior in advance for the shipping.
I've not done this, but it seems a good way to avoid all the HPD and FFL stumbling blocks. The brother won't need a permit at all since he won't have access to the rifles/lowers inside the storage container.
Aloha! :shaka:
All of the above sounds like bad advice.
(1) access to vs. possession?
So if someone left something illegal locked in a room of my house or in my autos locked glove box I could say that it's not mine because I don't have access but it's in my possession?
(2) the lowers are the firearm a lower stripped or not is the serialized component of the AR rifle and the part that needs to be registered and or transferred.
Post by: Drakiir84 on October 23, 2015, 08:43:07 AM
Incorrect. A valid and current permit is a requirement for any loan exceeding 15 days. The statute is very clear on this (see below).Wasn't talking about a loan, we were talking about a transfer to his brother with registration in which case my statement is correct.
Anyone who truly supports gun rights, will stand behind the statement that, (WE) "gun owners are law abiding citizens". It is the cornerstone of any argument against new regulations that "only hurt those who follow the law". When we start getting into the whole, "What they don't know, can't hurt me" type of thinking....that's when we've lost the moral high ground of the argument.
The answer to the question is: 15 days starts as soon as he leaves the island and gives up direct control/access of the firearm.
You're free to do what you think is right. But consider the fluidity of California gun laws and how what is legal today, may not be tomorrow. You're going to be there on orders, you can't just up and leave if something changes. And I can not stress enough how the process of registration is a hassle. Just buy something after you get there if you're afraid of the rainbow zombie hoard in the bay area.
Also, something to consider...leaving them in state allows you to "grandfather" them in if anything changes here.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 23, 2015, 11:15:01 AM
All of the above sounds like bad advice.
(1) access to vs. possession?
So if someone left something illegal locked in a room of my house or in my autos locked glove box I could say that it's not mine because I don't have access but it's in my possession?
(2) the lowers are the firearm a lower stripped or not is the serialized component of the AR rifle and the part that needs to be registered and or transferred.
Good question. Maybe it depends if firearms can be stored at a self storage location? Consider the brother's house a self storage space and pay him rent?
Post by: mauidog on October 23, 2015, 12:23:23 PM
All of the above sounds like bad advice.
(1) access to vs. possession?
So if someone left something illegal locked in a room of my house or in my autos locked glove box I could say that it's not mine because I don't have access but it's in my possession?
(2) the lowers are the firearm a lower stripped or not is the serialized component of the AR rifle and the part that needs to be registered and or transferred.
Really? So if I leave the house with a safe full of handguns, and another member of the family doesn't have the combination or keys, I'd be arrested?
Think about it.
Post by: dustoff003 on October 23, 2015, 02:34:04 PM
Really? So if I leave the house with a safe full of handguns, and another member of the family doesn't have the combination or keys, I'd be arrested?
Think about it.
In your own home that would be acceptable.
If you left firearms in someone else's home then there could be violations of the law. Handguns can't be loaned and long guns only for 15 days as per the HRS.
Post by: Colt808 on October 23, 2015, 02:49:45 PM
Wasn't talking about a loan, we were talking about a transfer to his brother with registration in which case my statement is correct.I understand that some topics are extremely long and difficult to follow. With all the quotes, responses, and off topic statements...sometimes a flow chart is needed to completely comprehend what is going on.
You responded to the OP's request for clarification on my post to him:
For brevity, I left out the first post as only the very last sentence was applicable to the above.The procedures related to registration for out of state military suck. Leave them here. As long as your brother has and maintains a permit to acquire, you don't need to transfer.he does indeed have one at the moment. are you saying he has to renew his every year in order for my guns to be at his house?The permit is only necessary to acquire, not to own. He can have them indefinitely without an active permit.
The quoted, "my guns to be at his house" does not imply transfer. It is by definition a loan (long term in this case) and is clearly the understanding between myself and the OP. That being the case, your response is incorrect. And this is not about who is right or wrong here, so don't take offense...it's about understanding the topic, then making sure the correct information is given so people do things right and legal.
Nevertheless, I concede that you would indeed be correct if we were discussing transfer, but that is not the case.
Post by: kong on October 23, 2015, 06:58:35 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 24, 2015, 11:00:47 PM
Post by: mauidog on October 25, 2015, 01:39:18 PM
Question: I just got a one-year temporary assignment to the Mainland from my employer. I will need to give up my rented apartment
and place all of my household goods into storage. Can I legally store my firearms and ammunition in a commercial self-storage facility?
Answer: No. You have a problem. You can only store firearms in your residence, place of work (if allowed), and a gun shop; otherwise,
it is a violation of the “place to keep” section of Chapter 134 HRS. Additionally, many self-storage businesses prohibit firearms and
ammunition. However, components like unprimed brass and bullets are not a problem although many self-storage companies may
elect to prohibit these items as well.
One solution is to have a FFL dealer store your firearms in a gun shop. However, this will require the dealer to enter the firearms into
the AFT book and obtain a HPD dealer registration. You will need to re-register your firearms when you regain possession.
Another option is to move to the home of a family member or friend. Re-establish that address as your official Hawaii residence (have
some of your mail sent there; register to vote at that address) and move all your firearms and ammunition into a secured locked area
or safe at that address. Then leave on your temporary assignment.
http://hawaiihistoricarms.com/whats-the-law-firearms-in-commercial-self-storage/
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 25, 2015, 08:53:40 PM
TOPIC: Firearms in Commercial Self-Storage
Question: I just got a one-year temporary assignment to the Mainland from my employer. I will need to give up my rented apartment
and place all of my household goods into storage. Can I legally store my firearms and ammunition in a commercial self-storage facility?
Answer: No. You have a problem. You can only store firearms in your residence, place of work (if allowed), and a gun shop; otherwise,
it is a violation of the “place to keep” section of Chapter 134 HRS. Additionally, many self-storage businesses prohibit firearms and
ammunition. However, components like unprimed brass and bullets are not a problem although many self-storage companies may
elect to prohibit these items as well.
One solution is to have a FFL dealer store your firearms in a gun shop. However, this will require the dealer to enter the firearms into
the AFT book and obtain a HPD dealer registration. You will need to re-register your firearms when you regain possession.
Another option is to move to the home of a family member or friend. Re-establish that address as your official Hawaii residence (have
some of your mail sent there; register to vote at that address) and move all your firearms and ammunition into a secured locked area
or safe at that address. Then leave on your temporary assignment.
http://hawaiihistoricarms.com/whats-the-law-firearms-in-commercial-self-storage/
Good advice, the last is probably the option I would take.