2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: aieahound on January 21, 2016, 11:06:04 AM
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http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/articles/2016-01-21/bundy-standoff-in-oregon-disregards-federal-handouts-ranchers-already-enjoy
They should call in the rapid response unit (or whatever their crack unit is called)
Handcuff these idiots with boots on the backs of their necks
And haul 'em off to jail.
Just my opinion.
Or cut off all supply routes in and out and arrest anyone entering or leaving.
What would happen if the Mauna Kea knuckleheads did an armed occupation of the Mauna Kea visitors center saying it was their place of sojourn since they're gonna stay there ?
Also how is Cliven Bundy not in jail ?
He owes us taxpayers over a million bucks.
Has there been another post on this topic because I couldn't find one and was surprised this forum has been so quiet on this topic for so long.
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Another article I read highlighted the protest of the arson charges. It said they served time but the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time. Now on the face of it, that sounded kinda questionable and perhaps a good reason to protest. This article certainly paints more of the picture. I think there may be certain valid land use concerns at play. While they may be using government lands, that doesn't necessarily mean the government was always right in the acquisition of those lands. As I recall there is a native american tribe that also stakes claims on the land in question. Overall, it is a topic I don't yet have a good grasp of to determine whether there is cause for what they did.
I don't think we need to storm the base though. Time can play itself out in a more peaceful action.
As for the Clive Bundy thing, I think the same thing, we didn't need to storm in there. But now that all their supporters are gone, why not just quietly arrest him?
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http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/articles/2016-01-21/bundy-standoff-in-oregon-disregards-federal-handouts-ranchers-already-enjoy
They should call in the rapid response unit (or whatever their crack unit is called)
Handcuff these idiots with boots on the backs of their necks
And haul 'em off to jail.
Just my opinion.
Or cut off all supply routes in and out and arrest anyone entering or leaving.
What would happen if the Mauna Kea knuckleheads did an armed occupation of the Mauna Kea visitors center saying it was their place of sojourn since they're gonna stay there ?
Also how is Cliven Bundy not in jail ?
He owes us taxpayers over a million bucks.
Has there been another post on this topic because I couldn't find one and was surprised this forum has been so quiet on this topic for so long.
These idiots need to leave.
They are giving the militias a bad name.
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These idiots need to leave.
They are giving the militias a bad name.
It's been a really long time since militias have had a GOOD name, so .... not much harm! :geekdanc:
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Consider the source, U.S. News c/o Economic Intelligence
It is my understanding that certain "government lands" in the likes of Montana, Utah and such are what ya call "Free Range" territory declared such back in the 1800 when every body was bartering to be or not to be a state.
As such Rangers (cattleman) had the right to let their cattle roam upon these lands.
If you recall, Bundy was originally charged with "Disturbing an endangered species" a tortoise that has been living with the cattle for hundreds of years on the same piece of earth.
$1,000,000. 00 of fees, fines, permits over 20 years seems kinda steep.
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So they were arrested, they were sentenced, and they served their time.
Then "the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time.' :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
THERE'S SOMETHING TERRIBLY WRONG THERE !
They take your taxes and piss it away on things like rail, personal vacations disguised as research for what ever reason, $million dollar pensions after you get fired, million dollar studies (rail, laneakea, Panos, why people come to Hawaii getting rid of the ferry, ag lands rezoned for building housing we can't afford which are then sold to non-residents moving here increasing the islands population and simultaneously depleting it's resources and "REAL" value, destroying half a million dollars worth of tax payer purchased firearms and let's not forget about DENYING YOU OF YOUR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHTS EVEN AFTER THE SUPREME COURT HAS RULED THAT IT SHOULD NOT BE SO !
At what point do you say enough is enough and do something about it.
Just search "Government (or even Hawaii for that matter) wastes of money or corruption and you'll find even more than you know about already
I don't blame those boy's (and girls) a bit. :thumbsup:
As for the " Mauna Kea knuckleheads'
"They should call in the rapid response unit (or whatever their crack unit is called)
Handcuff these idiots with boots on the backs of their necks
And haul 'em off to jail."
They could have "cut off all supply routes in and out and arrest anyone entering or leaving."
Occupation of the Mauna Kea visitors center was an "occupation" whether they were armed or not.
Just my opinion.
Sorry Hound :wave:
I could go on and on but I think I would be preaching to the choir.
JMHO :shaka:
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Consider the source, U.S. News c/o Economic Intelligence
It is my understanding that certain "government lands" in the likes of Montana, Utah and such are what ya call "Free Range" territory declared such back in the 1800 when every body was bartering to be or not to be a state.
As such Rangers (cattleman) had the right to let their cattle roam upon these lands.
If you recall, Bundy was originally charged with "Disturbing an endangered species" a tortoise that has been living with the cattle for hundreds of years on the same piece of earth.
$1,000,000. 00 of fees, fines, permits over 20 years seems kinda steep.
.
So they were arrested, they were sentenced, and they served their time.
Then "the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time.' :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
THERE'S SOMETHING TERRIBLY WRONG THERE !
And what about the arson charges? Starting a forrest fire which puts lives at risk. I am not saying that reversing the sentence isn't suspicious but it is awfully convenient that articles supporting these militias leave out the fact these guys purposefully started a forrest fire.
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Consider the source, U.S. News c/o Economic Intelligence
It is my understanding that certain "government lands" in the likes of Montana, Utah and such are what ya call "Free Range" territory declared such back in the 1800 when every body was bartering to be or not to be a state.
As such Rangers (cattleman) had the right to let their cattle roam upon these lands.
If you recall, Bundy was originally charged with "Disturbing an endangered species" a tortoise that has been living with the cattle for hundreds of years on the same piece of earth.
$1,000,000. 00 of fees, fines, permits over 20 years seems kinda steep.
.
So they were arrested, they were sentenced, and they served their time.
Then "the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time.' :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
THERE'S SOMETHING TERRIBLY WRONG THERE !
They take your taxes and piss it away on things like rail, personal vacations disguised as research for what ever reason, $million dollar pensions after you get fired, million dollar studies (rail, laneakea, Panos, why people come to Hawaii getting rid of the ferry, ag lands rezoned for building housing we can't afford which are then sold to non-residents moving here increasing the islands population and simultaneously depleting it's resources and "REAL" value, destroying half a million dollars worth of tax payer purchased firearms and let's not forget about DENYING YOU OF YOUR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHTS EVEN AFTER THE SUPREME COURT HAS RULED THAT IT SHOULD NOT BE SO !
At what point do you say enough is enough and do something about it.
Just search "Government (or even Hawaii for that matter) wastes of money or corruption and you'll find even more than you know about already
I don't blame those boy's (and girls) a bit. :thumbsup:
As for the " Mauna Kea knuckleheads'
"They should call in the rapid response unit (or whatever their crack unit is called)
Handcuff these idiots with boots on the backs of their necks
And haul 'em off to jail."
They could have "cut off all supply routes in and out and arrest anyone entering or leaving."
Occupation of the Mauna Kea visitors center was an "occupation" whether they were armed or not.
Just my opinion.
Sorry Hound :wave:
I could go on and on but I think I would be preaching to the choir.
JMHO :shaka:
I was going to respond, but I'll let HOSS do it for me:
https://youtu.be/ARpBS6O14FE
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I was going to respond, but I'll let HOSS do it for me:
Hoss says it pretty well.
Good points Rock, but you wove a few stories together there.
I just think if you're a terrorist, foreign or domestic, you should be dealt with as such.
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And what about the arson charges? Starting a forrest fire which puts lives at risk. I am not saying that reversing the sentence isn't suspicious but it is awfully convenient that articles supporting these militias leave out the fact these guys purposefully started a forrest FOREST fire.
Forest FIRE? ? ? ?
DID YOU SEE THE SCRUB LAND THEY WERE USING, ?
NOTHING OVER 2 FT HIGH BUT CACTUS FOR MILES 1
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Forest FIRE? ? ? ?
DID YOU SEE THE SCRUB LAND THEY WERE USING, ?
NOTHING OVER 2 FT HIGH BUT CACTUS FOR MILES 1
Not familiar with the land, but they burnt over 100 acres the article said. I think the government might have been a little sneaky in the matter but I don't think they were right in this case either.
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I was going to respond, but I'll let HOSS do it for me:
https://youtu.be/ARpBS6O14FE
Hey Q.
Started to watch Hoss but between 1:28 and 2:10 I heard "I don't know, maybe, this may or may not be true, I don't know, I haven't looked into it, I'm not sure, I would assume," .
Sounded like Lie Hagy doing the weather, and therefore got my same reaction.
I can do better by just looking up in the sky.
:shaka:
No comments on "the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time."
Let's add recent 2 a posts for more info on similar subject matters where our government is "Taking care of us" but worse than dialing 911
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Clip/12127555/victim-reacts-as-court-approves-conditional-release-for-2009-koko-head-attacker
http://ij.org/case/north-carolina-forfeiture/
http://www.redstate.com/2016/01/20/breaking-massive-50-cal-recovered-el-chapos-hideout-bought-fast-furious-program/
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http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/01/19/3740829/ursula-k-le-guin-oregon-lte/
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http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/01/19/3740829/ursula-k-le-guin-oregon-lte/
Regarding Ursula K Le Guin: "ranting about the Constitution does not get you a permit to break the law"
Please allow me to "quote Ms. LeGuin
'We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings.
Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings.'
"What was the good working for freedom all your life and ending up without any freedom at all?"
"What's to gain by silence?"
'One voice, speaking truth is a greater force than fleets and armies, given time; plenty of time."
"A man who doesn’t detest a bad government is a fool.
And if there were such a thing as a good government on earth, it would be a great joy to serve it."
"You can’t crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them."
And finally....
"I talk about the gods, I am an atheist. But I am an artist too, and therefore a liar.
Distrust everything I say. I am telling the truth."
(actually, I think she stole that last one from an episode of the original Star Trek.)
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The government owns 53% of the land in Oregon. You may not care about smaller ranchers but they are losing their grazing land every day. The big companies have the money to pay off politicians and these guys get screwed. I think their methods are all wrong but I don't think sending in the feds "ruby ridge" style is the answer.
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Hey Q.
Started to watch Hoss but between 1:28 and 2:10 I heard "I don't know, maybe, this may or may not be true, I don't know, I haven't looked into it, I'm not sure, I would assume," .
Sounded like Lie Hagy doing the weather, and therefore got my same reaction.
I can do better by just looking up in the sky.
:shaka:
No comments on "the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time."
Let's add recent 2 a posts for more info on similar subject matters where our government is "Taking care of us" but worse than dialing 911
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Clip/12127555/victim-reacts-as-court-approves-conditional-release-for-2009-koko-head-attacker
http://ij.org/case/north-carolina-forfeiture/
http://www.redstate.com/2016/01/20/breaking-massive-50-cal-recovered-el-chapos-hideout-bought-fast-furious-program/
The fact is that the Oregonians themselves did not want them there, the Hammonds did not want them there, NO ONE WANTED THEM THERE.
There was no call to action; these guys just showed up and 'invaded' Oregon.
Also, they started referring to themselves as the 'militia', yet most of them are not part of the militia. Now, because of their actions, the MSM is referring to them as 'militia members', and they are not giving ALL real militias a bad name, to include the Oregon militia who DOES NOT WANT THEM THERE.
Not sure how you arrived at the thought of 'these guys are doing the right thing', because no one asked for them to come and no one wanted their help. In fact, the people that they came to 'help' feel they are making the situation worse.
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What happens when one militia goes in to depose this militia?!
The videos of people sending dildos in support is fridge hilarious though.
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The fact is that the Oregonians themselves did not want them there, the Hammonds did not want them there, NO ONE WANTED THEM THERE.
There was no call to action; these guys just showed up and 'invaded' Oregon.
Also, they started referring to themselves as the 'militia', yet most of them are not part of the militia. Now, because of their actions, the MSM is referring to them as 'militia members', and they are not giving ALL real militias a bad name, to include the Oregon militia who DOES NOT WANT THEM THERE.
Not sure how you arrived at the thought of 'these guys are doing the right thing', because no one asked for them to come and no one wanted their help. In fact, the people that they came to 'help' feel they are making the situation worse.
I don't know where you got "Not sure how you arrived at the thought of 'these guys are doing the right thing'," as I never said that. :wtf:
My main point was and still is . . . .
So they were arrested, they were sentenced, and they served their time. (and were released)
Then "the judge thought the sentence was too short and sent them back for more time :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Sending them back for more time is like being sentenced twice for the same crime.
and
At what point do you say enough is enough and do something about it.
Neither of which anyone has responded to.
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Their armed occupation has little to do with the Hammonds, who were screwed and have still distanced themselves from the Bundys.
It's about a small group of profiteering ranchers having free reign of deeply discounted federal lands for grazing.
They allegedly tore down a nearby ranchers fence to liberate his land, without his permission, and he put the fence back up the next day.
The Feds of course change the rules on the whim of Emperor Obama's minions, but the fact remains the grazing rights on federal land is way cheaper than private lands.
If they get free grazing rights on public land do we get free hunting rights on their cattle ? >:D
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Shots Fired During Arrest of Members of Armed Oregon Group; One Dead
BURNS, Ore. (AP) — Authorities say shots were fired Tuesday during the arrest of members of an
armed group that has occupied a national wildlife refuge in Oregon for more than three weeks.
In a statement, the FBI said one individual “who was a subject of a federal probable cause arrest is
deceased.” No other information about the deceased was immediately released.
The FBI said authorities arrested Ammon Bundy, 40, his brother Ryan Bundy, 43, Brian Cavalier, 44,
Shawna Cox, 59, and Ryan Payne, 32, during a traffic stop on U.S. Highway 395 Tuesday afternoon.
Authorities said another person, Joseph Donald O’Shaughnessy, 45, was arrested in Burns.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/01/26/shots-fired-during-arrest-of-members-of-armed-oregon-group-one-dead/
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Probable cause
conspiracy
suspicion of the federal government's motives
Traffic stop by FBI, state Trooper and "other authority's "
2 others arrested non associated with traffic stop
"It's unclear who fired first"
"Charges against those arrested are still unknown"
" At what point do you say enough is enough "
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Probable cause
conspiracy
suspicion of the federal government's motives
Traffic stop by FBI, state Trooper and "other authority's "
2 others arrested non associated with traffic stop
"It's unclear who fired first"
"Charges against those arrested are still unknown"
" At what point do you say enough is enough "
When you take over a government building by force for weeks basically for your own gain and the loss of the public.
Oh, you meant the other side of the coin.
My bad Rock.
We could learn a lesson from this and proceed with the TMT telescope.
And the Superferry.
Oh damn ! The State Supreme Court is in the way. (But that's a different story.)
Just hopefully without the shooting.
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When you take over a government building by force
The refuge was not taken by "force", it was PEACEFULLY occupied on a holiday when empty
Do you mean "by force" because they were armed ? Isn't Oregon a open carry state ?
They did not storm the compound and have another Waco so they acted when and where there were no witnesses or media.
for weeks basically for your own gain
The occupation was in response to the UNCONSTITUTIONAL and UNJUST "re-incarceration" of relatives WHO HAD ALREADY SERVED THEIR SENTENCE for their alleged crime and the governments control of millions of acres of land.
and the loss of the public.
REALLY ? Google Earth Malheur National Wildlife refuge building and see how it is in the middle of nowhere. Still plenty of room for everybody and no one was denied access to the refuge.
Oh, you meant the other side of the coin.
Like the the last Green Bay Packers game coin ? :crazy:
My bad Rock. :wave:
We could learn a lesson from this and proceed with the TMT telescope.
And the Superferry.
Not sure if those events are quite the same.
Oh damn ! The State Supreme Court is in the way. (But that's a different story.)
Yeah, we know how the Supreme Court, State or otherwise (appointed by politicians) has made just decisions on our Constitutional rights. :wacko:
Just hopefully without the shooting.
Hopefully but, " At what point do you say enough is enough "
This has been headline news for month and is now already getting buried in the news which should tell you something.
Can't have folk's uprising against the government now, can we.
Obama just stomped his foot down on to make a point on the Second Amendment.
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ABC, NBC,FOX and AOL have all put this story on the back pages, but found this on CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-siege-arrests/index.html
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I don't really know much about the shooting but I am skeptical of the claim that they were all just unarmed with their hands up and the police shot them for no reason. It sounds like they are taking a play from the BlackLivesMatter playbook. Now it is possible that the shooting was not justified, but I think the narrative they put forth is probably still a bit slanted on the details. It is certainly not the first time people have claimed they were peaceful to the officers but evidence suggests otherwise.
Hopefully someone will have some dash camera footage or something.
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FBI video
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_video_of_lavoy.html
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Reportedly there are 4 occupiers left.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/29/were-the-grunts-that-get-stuck-behind-the-final-holdouts-of-the-oregon-occupation/
Sidebar of topic.
Was it a justified shooting based on the video ? (Strictly based on the video)
And do you think this killing will light up the militia / anti-govt. Movements across the country ?
P.S. It's a super bummer someone died in this fiasco.
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FBI video
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_video_of_lavoy.html
The way he kept reaching like a drawstroke, it appears to be Suicide By Cop.
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Reportedly there are 4 occupiers left.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/29/were-the-grunts-that-get-stuck-behind-the-final-holdouts-of-the-oregon-occupation/
Sidebar of topic.
Was it a justified shooting based on the video ? (Strictly based on the video)
And do you think this killing will light up the militia / anti-govt. Movements across the country ?
P.S. It's a super bummer someone died in this fiasco.
I would say the video does look to be a justified shooting. Audio is absent though so there is still some wiggle room.
To start off with, they clearly decided to go on a high speed get away, secondly they tried to bypass a roadblock. So that pretty clearly sets the demeanor.
Next the guy gets out of the truck and does appear to be surrendering however he reaches into his jacket 2 or 3 times. The cops are most likely giving him instructions which would not include reaching inches jacket. They have good reason to believe the men in the truck are armed. The guy continues to reach into his jacket and they shoot.
The video does show some mistakes by the cops, like the one idiot creating a crossfire situation but that is another topic.
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some say their truck was already fired upon before he exited. he clearly exited with his hands up. then he was shot first by an officer who then turned and exited stage right unless that was a doctored video. his reaching looks natural to me to the friggin gunshot wound. you try keeping your hands up with a bullet wound. then of course everybody else opens up on him and the dance of death begins. the gun that was reportedly found on him was stolen so not even his. everybody supposedly left their firearms back at the camp. as they say what cowboy uses a 9 mil. and will the autopsy show he was shot 9 times and the wounds to his side? this whole thing stinks. weren't they on the way to the meeting peacefully? why the friggin' ambush then? aha? federal land. taxes. =death penalty. fck that noise. meanwhile we have real shitheads crossing the borders or being released only to wage war against us again. aren't those the real enemies of the state? pay your obamacare or pay the penalty but just pay up. 2+2=5. live free or die.
http://right.is/politics/2016/02/blaine-cooper-finicum-left-his-firearms-at-refuge-the-day-police-killed-him-audio-51719.html
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some say their truck was already fired upon before he exited. he clearly exited with his hands up. then he was shot first by an officer who then turned and exited stage right unless that was a doctored video. his reaching looks natural to me to the friggin gunshot wound. you try keeping your hands up with a bullet wound. then of course everybody else opens up on him and the dance of death begins. the gun that was reportedly found on him was stolen so not even his. everybody supposedly left their firearms back at the camp. as they say what cowboy uses a 9 mil. and will the autopsy show he was shot 9 times and the wounds to his side? this whole thing stinks. weren't they on the way to the meeting peacefully? why the friggin' ambush then? aha? federal land. taxes. =death penalty. fck that noise. meanwhile we have real shitheads crossing the borders or being released only to wage war against us again. aren't those the real enemies of the state? pay your obamacare or pay the penalty but just pay up. 2+2=5. live free or die.
http://right.is/politics/2016/02/blaine-cooper-finicum-left-his-firearms-at-refuge-the-day-police-killed-him-audio-51719.html
He did run the roadblock so he already had a tick against him for that for putting people in danger.
Were the cops involved scared these guys might want a gun battle? Sure. Did that put them on a hair trigger? Possibly.
The autopsy will show whether he was hit on his left side, but of course we won't know if that was before or after he grabbed there. It could be that one individual fired without justification and the guy reached in his jacket to grab a wound. Of course the rest of the officers involved don't know whether this guy is grabbing a wound or a gun.
I can't find a good source saying the gun found on him was stolen. Only commentary pieces. What cowboy uses a 9mm? A tactical cowboy.
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Worth the long read.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/
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Nice find 88. Thanks for posting.