2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: stangzilla on February 01, 2016, 08:00:12 AM
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I just got my first AR about a month and a half ago, so I am no expert on the platform
this is more of a newbie's experience with building a basic AR
so if you were thinking about building one, it wasn't that hard, didn't need a lot of tools, just took some patients was all
parts are:
Aero precision lower
PSA lower build kit
upper is a 16" barrel with 13" keymod rail, free floated.
BCG is spikes tactical
generic charging handle
as you can tell, its not a precision build
I just want it to function well, and be a back up AR
I have 2 more lowers, this one is just the one I'm doing first.
I'm just building the lower and dropping in a built upper, so thats my focus.
Pic of all the parts
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff26/onederful100/guns/ar%20build1.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/onederful100/media/guns/ar%20build1.jpg.html)
I am using this as a reference:
http://quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/assemblealower.pdf
nice to have something on paper, it is very informative
also using this from youtube.
this was more inforormative. nothing beats video for instruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNTP7GNU6DY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nen5iNNzVXE
https://youtu.be/pGPHgkH96NI
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff26/onederful100/guns/ar%20build.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/onederful100/media/guns/ar%20build.jpg.html)
instructions say it takes 30-60 minutes to build the lower. haha, not this time.
most of my time was looking on the ground for the spring and detent which flew across the room a few times
also using painters tape on the lower to protect it against scratches was a smart move.
first I installed the mag release, bolt catch/release, trigger guard, and pivot pin.
trigger guard and pivot pin took some time.
that pivot pin spring and detent was a SOB to get in there without it flying across the room.
finished everything yesterday
heres pics of how it progressed
next time should be way easier bc now i kind of know what to expect
I have the magpul pop up sights and an optic to put on
just need to clean the barrel and bolt a little and install the optics and i'm ready to shoot!!!
everything functions perfectly, I'm very satisfied with my first build!
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1525/24736837555_3a13b1feae_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1556/24643340801_fd8af44801_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1639/24441333510_26ed46eac4_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1462/24736878515_8d968e32fd_c.jpg)
List of AR parts and weights
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/638524_Lightweight_Parts_List_with_WEIGHTS__AR_15_.html
Bolt catch install with pliers instead of pin punch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QzJKOl4MX9c
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SNIP
instructions say it takes 30-60 minutes to build the lower. haha, not this time.
most of my time was looking on the ground for the spring and detent which flew across the room a few times
also using painters tape on the lower to protect it against scratches was a smart move.
I was warned about that when I built my first lower. Luckily, the only thing that happened when I built my lower was a detent pin rolled off the counter my buddy and I were working on. His wife heard the sound of metal hitting the floor and was like "uh oh, did you lose a piece?". Found out that my buddy had launched a pin or two on a previous build. >:( ;D
Like you said, having gone through it once, you certainly know a few tricks and stuff to make things easier the next go around. :thumbsup:
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battle arms pins come with little magnets. those help. after the 5th or 6th lower i just started using bamboo skewers instead of a metal punch.the thin tip has just enough give to let the pin slide over the detent enough. also doesnt scratch the pin or the lower like a punch would.
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battle arms pins come with little magnets. those help. after the 5th or 6th lower i just started using bamboo skewers instead of a metal punch.the thin tip has just enough give to let the pin slide over the detent enough. also doesnt scratch the pin or the lower like a punch would.
bamboo skewers is a good idea.
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Good job! Looks nice!!
I bought a no mar upper receiver holder thing for a vise. It has these pins that go into the receiver to lock it down. I used those to install my pivot receiver pin thingy. Hard to explain how I did it by typing. Basically insert the no mar pin through, then through the hole on the pin, I put the spring and detent in with a punch. After I rotated the no mar pins to hold it in place then slid the regular pin on. There's a YouTube video somewhere where u use a special screw with holes. Can get it at Home Depot for under a dollar I believe but I just used what I had lol. It took me 1 minute for 1 then less than 10 seconds for the other lowers I made after I knew what I was doing. I pieced 3 complete lowers and kept exchanging parts. And made 4 uppers. All have been sold except my newest x39 ar15. I enjoyed it. Fun ain't it?
Edit: it's called a Clevis pin from Home Depot and it's about 2 bucks. The no mar upper receiver holder comes with something similar to that so it was cherry. I don't remember if I opened the hole up for it just a bit. It's been a while.. Anyways the video is by readygunner on YouTube. Title was ... Quick and easy install pivot receiver pin. Sorry I can't paste the vid via my phone. Don't see any url from YouTube app. Lol. Damn old iPhone ! If you do plan on getting it you need the upper receiver holder. Cause it acts like a lower receiver. Just an FYI and hope this helps you or anyone else who wants to make life easier where it can be made..
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Nice looking rifle and good job on assembling the lower. :)
I'm waiting on 2 lowers myself so good to see your thread. I'll also remember the bamboo skewer sticks for the bolt catch install, thanks.
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Nice work! I really enjoyed putting my AR together. I somehow managed not to launch any pins, but I did get a couple of them confused and had a pretty squishy safety detent until I figured it out.
Now I'm getting the itch to start another one. .308, maybe...? :D
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added magpul backup sights, and primary arms 5x prism scope with acss reticle
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1500/24168005103_f8acc43ce5_c.jpg)
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:thumbsup:
What additions or mods do you have in mind?
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...that pivot pin spring and detent was a SOB to get in there without it flying across the room.
I keep a gallon size ziploc in my toolbox for this very reason. Even while using a dedicated tool to install the spring, detent, and pin, I still do the entire process inside of the ziploc, which has saved me at least once from launching the spring and detent into oblivion. I also picked up a spare parts kit off amazon, just in case, and it came with the tool that I use. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B019YPZPQK/?tag=2ahawaii-20 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B019YPZPQK/?tag=2ahawaii-20). Great job with the assembly and nice rifle! :thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:
What additions or mods do you have in mind?
which upper did you use, stang?
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which upper did you use, stang?
its a Radical FIrearms 16" socom upper, with 13" Seekins free float keymod rail
was on sale during Christmas time, for $299 without BCG and CH
i added spikes BCG, with generic charging handle. which were also on sale at the time.
we'll see what it does at the range
:thumbsup:
What additions or mods do you have in mind?
not much more, maybe a bipod.
i also have a griffin armament muzzle brake that i want to put on, or might save it for another build. can use griffin suppressor that just snaps onto the griffin muzzle brake, but can't use that here anyway.
the muzzle brake alone looks pretty nice, and supposed to help with muzzle rise a little better, although 556 isnt too bad anyways, I'll admit its mostly for the looks. :shaka:
but i dont want too much on the rifle. i like it simple and light.
I keep a gallon size ziploc in my toolbox for this very reason. Even while using a dedicated tool to install the spring, detent, and pin, I still do the entire process inside of the ziploc, which has saved me at least once from launching the spring and detent into oblivion. I also picked up a spare parts kit off amazon, just in case, and it came with the tool that I use. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B019YPZPQK/?tag=2ahawaii-20 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B019YPZPQK/?tag=2ahawaii-20). Great job with the assembly and nice rifle! :thumbsup:
good idea with the ziploc.
i also thought of doing that part inside a big box, so it'll hold the spring inside if it gets loose, but hopefully it wont get loose
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I'd like to see a review and your thoughts on that primary arms scope after you use it for a while.
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I'd like to see a review and your thoughts on that primary arms scope after you use it for a while.
I have the primary arms 1-6x24 on my other AR
had it for over a month, shot it a few times
I really like the acss reticle: BDC, distance estimation, adjustment for wind and for moving targets, illuminated
distance is based on the height of a human (5'10", or shoulder width 18")
calibrated for 556, 308, 5.45
no need to do any math for mils, all the adjustments are right on the reticle
its so good, trijicon is going to use the acss reticle as one of their options on their new acog's
the primary arms one, at less than $300 is a bargain. the glass looks pretty good too, its not top of the line leupold glass, but at that price it'll be very tough to match
but I'll give a better review after i shoot it more, and give a comparison between the 1-6 and the fixed power 5x prism scope
but overall i'm diggin' the acss reticle, very user friendly.
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a couple of vids that explain the acss reticle very well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFDHS7Vi_Vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7DmssXBNgo
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I have been thinking about getting a Primary Arms Micro Dot for a beater AR or AK. They seem to get decent reviews. A buddy has one on his AR in 300 BLKOUT, but I haven't shot it much.
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I have been thinking about getting a Primary Arms Micro Dot for a beater AR or AK. They seem to get decent reviews. A buddy has one on his AR in 300 BLKOUT, but I haven't shot it much.
I have their micro dot on my arsenal AK, with a RS scope mount, and its screwed into the mount.
that thing holds zero great.
I like that red dot a lot.
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I have their micro dot on my arsenal AK, with a RS scope mount, and its screwed into the mount.
that thing holds zero great.
I like that red dot a lot.
I have a SM-13 mount for my Arsenal AK that is awaiting an optic. So would be pretty much the same setup. Damn you! You're inspiring me to bring that project back to the front burner! ;D
I toyed around with an EoTech 512 that I had that wasn't on a gun and it was too high for using with the standard/stock buttstock. That's when I started looking into something more low profile. I have Aimpoint micros on a couple other ARs, but I didn't want to spend the $500-600 on one for my AK. I should just spring for the Aimpoint micro for the AK, but at $100-200 range for the Primary Arms micro dots, they seem more and more attractive.
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I'd like to see a review and your thoughts on that primary arms scope after you use it for a while.
went to Kokohead today, tested out the rifle and the optic, and backup iron sights
rifle functioned perfectly, as far as shooting at kokohead goes
I didn't put it through a torture test, but seems to run good
as far as the optic goes:
i really like the acss reticle. i'm somewhat familiar with it from my other rifle with the 1-6x24 primary arms.
reticle works the same, and its about just as accurate as the other scope
but, i prefer the 1-6x 24 bc of the longer eye relief
this 5x prism scope has a shorter relief, about 2 inches, whereas the 1-6x24 has about 3-3.5 inch relief which really makes a big difference to me
and how the 1-6 sits on the rifle puts it slightly rearward vs the 5x prism scope so I have to come up closer to view the sight picture, its a little un-natural to me.
it still works well and is accurate, i just prefer the 1-6 much better
heres a couple pics from the range today
I am no sharpshooter, and accuracy isn't what this build is about, but you gotta sight in your rifle so this is what i got today
from 50 yards while still adjusting the scope:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1716/24572839580_fa4e3fa9ff_c.jpg)
average groups were around 3 inches or so, mostly using 55 grain FMJ 5.56 magtech ammo
best group at 100 yard was this one using 62 grain green tips, disgard the left shot, doesn't count. ;)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1499/24750411762_d143afe075_c.jpg)
overall i'm very satisfied with the build, works perfectly
just need to sight it in better and get used to shooting it
and see if the scope holds zero over time
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update:
spent a little time yesterday during superbowl commercials to shoulder the rifle and practice with the optic
and its not bad at all, just a slightly shorter relief than my other scope
i gues i got spoiled bc the other scope has a nice long relief
but this one is pretty good too, just needed some practice was all.
forgot to specify the above 2nd pic is from 100 yards, while the 1st pic is 50 yards
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:thumbsup:
That's a pretty good group for 100 yards with green-tips. (even counting the left flyer ;D ) I haven't shot green tips in a while, but I have come not to expect much when I do shoot them. I certainly don't expect match level results. Haha
I bet that 1-6x optic would've been fun for when there was still steel plates out beyond the berm. That was one of the more entertaining aspects of the kokohead range.
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:thumbsup:
That's a pretty good group for 100 yards with green-tips. (even counting the left flyer ;D ) I haven't shot green tips in a while, but I have come not to expect much when I do shoot them. I certainly don't expect match level results. Haha
I bet that 1-6x optic would've been fun for when there was still steel plates out beyond the berm. That was one of the more entertaining aspects of the kokohead range.
thanks.
could be a little luck helped me with that grouping
I didn't post the other 6 targets I shot that day, they weren't that great.
:shaka:
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got that 2nd build done yesterday. i think i have an addiction now. :geekdanc:
parts are:
Spikes tactical lower
joe bobs lower build kit, ACT/ALG combat trigger, magpul MOE carbine stock and pistol grip
PSA upper 16"with 13" KMR, PSA m16 bcg, generic ch
this time the build went about the same speed bc i bent one of the pins, the one that secures the bolt catch
so i had to bend it back
then i forgot to put in the recoil spring and i pulled back the charging handle the instant that i remembered i didnt put in the spring
so i had to backtrack and remove the buffer tube to get the bcg out, then put it all back together again
rookie mistakes, but a learning experience, so no big deal in the end
again I am satisfied with the results
now to go to the range and test it out
no optic yet, just going to use magpul pop up iron sights for now
waiting for a new optic to come out, its a 4-14x44 platform, and its going to kick *** on this AR!
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1474/24942801436_559aa676e3_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1629/24338519054_8c756dbafd_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1483/24626175189_c32225026f_c.jpg)
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Nice thread, just picked up 2 Spikes lowers to build in the future. I also thought about building the lower and buying a complete upper but can't seem to find a 18/20" upper I want, already have a Carbine.
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Nice thread, just picked up 2 Spikes lowers to build in the future. I also thought about building the lower and buying a complete upper but can't seem to find a 18/20" upper I want, already have a Carbine.
i've been looking at parts lately, and seems to be a shortage on barreled uppers
a lot of the lower end stuff, but after that everything is pretty much sold out for now
maybe gotta wait for a while to build supply
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not a new build
I just got a Radical Firearms upper in 7.62x39 and installed onto one of my existing lowers (spikes lower with all milspec parts and magpul stock)
upper came with 7.62x39 bcg
added an optic I had laying around (Primary arms 1-6x24)
also got a couple ASC 7.62x39 mags
I might test it next week
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4176/33657997454_dea231b163_b.jpg)
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Nice! :thumbsup:
Looking forward to seeing how that setup shoots.
The angle at which the mag comes out of the magwell just looks so strange since I'm used to seeing 5.56/.223 mags.
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I got to shoot a friends AR chambered in 7.62x39 this past weekend, and it shot really good.
I hope mine shoots just as well.
I ordered 2 more C products mags
there has been some reliability issues with shooting this caliber in an AR, we shall see how mine holds up.
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I dremeled all my asc mags front lip. And polished the dimples in the direction of the bullet entering the chamber and smooth the top part of mag (the part between front lip and the part which holds the bullet in the mag) sorry dunno technical terms. Mine all feed 100% so far. I just used sand paper (2k grit) except the front lip which I used a dremel.
Hope the helps if you have feeding problems . If you stare at an ak mag you'll noticed the front lip is much lower than a standard 556 mag. Prob cause of the OD of the projectile.
Good luck and have fun
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I got to shoot a friends AR chambered in 7.62x39 this past weekend, and it shot really good.
I hope mine shoots just as well.
I ordered 2 more C products mags
there has been some reliability issues with shooting this caliber in an AR, we shall see how mine holds up.
I am curious as to the difference in recoil compared to the 300 BLK?
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Nice build.
Where are you ordering the mags from ?
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I dremeled all my asc mags front lip. And polished the dimples in the direction of the bullet entering the chamber and smooth the top part of mag (the part between front lip and the part which holds the bullet in the mag) sorry dunno technical terms. Mine all feed 100% so far. I just used sand paper (2k grit) except the front lip which I used a dremel.
Hope the helps if you have feeding problems . If you stare at an ak mag you'll noticed the front lip is much lower than a standard 556 mag. Prob cause of the OD of the projectile.
Good luck and have fun
thanks, I'll keep this in mind
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I am curious as to the difference in recoil compared to the 300 BLK?
It's been a while since I shot a 300blk, but the 7.62x39 AR recoil wasn't that bad at all
Nice build.
Where are you ordering the mags from ?
the 30 round ASC was from Primary arms. was hard to find mags in stock. some places don't ship to Hawaii. palmetto state was sold out
and the 10 round C products was from ebay since the ones I ordered were only 10 rounds
the rifle I fired this past weekend was c products and was unmodified and fed no problem
i'll try cycling some rounds tonite and see how it does
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did a little ammo chambering test last night. the mags do look like how aaron described it above.
first I just loaded some ammo into the ASC mag and pushed it out with my thumb. came out easy, but the last round was more difficult to push out bc it sits lower behind the front part of the mag.
besides the last round, the other rounds sit above the front part of the mag. so thought if anything the last round might give me trouble.
next I loaded the rounds in the mag, locked the bolt back and put it on safe. inserted the mag and chambered the rounds by pressing the bolt release and ejecting the rounds by pulling back the ch, and then did it again by pulling the charging handle back and releasing it.
all times it chambered the rounds even the last one, no problem.
next up is the range test. :thumbsup:
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did a little ammo chambering test last night. the mags do look like how aaron described it above.
first I just loaded some ammo into the ASC mag and pushed it out with my thumb. came out easy, but the last round was more difficult to push out bc it sits lower behind the front part of the mag.
besides the last round, the other rounds sit above the front part of the mag. so thought if anything the last round might give me trouble.
next I loaded the rounds in the mag, locked the bolt back and put it on safe. inserted the mag and chambered the rounds by pressing the bolt release and ejecting the rounds by pulling back the ch, and then did it again by pulling the charging handle back and releasing it.
all times it chambered the rounds even the last one, no problem.
next up is the range test. :thumbsup:
Do you have an AK (7.62x39)? Just thinking it would be great for a side-by-side comparison between the two. I'm thinking more stuff like differences in perceived recoil impulse, muzzle movement, etc.
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Do you have an AK (7.62x39)? Just thinking it would be great for a side-by-side comparison between the two. I'm thinking more stuff like differences in perceived recoil impulse, muzzle movement, etc.
yes, I have an Arsenal sgl21 and wasr10 (the wasr will probably be sold soon)
I can do a little side by side comparison. as best I can do at kokohead.
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yes, I have an Arsenal sgl21 and wasr10 (the wasr will probably be sold soon)
I can do a little side by side comparison. as best I can do at kokohead.
Awesome! Yeah, a side-by-side comparison, even a brief one would be great!
I often get caught up in option A or option B and usually have to try for myself since I can usually find opinions on option A and another person's opinion on option B. But not often a direct option A vs option B comparison.
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Not to hijack the thread...
I let my friends shoot my arx39 (both of them) and my ak47 (ddi stamped version). The recoil on my girls arx39 shoots the softest. It's a mid length barrel- gas port is .099", FA bcg, 5.5 oz. buffer, tubbs buffer spring (watch YouTube on his explanation- pretty informative) the Wolff xp spring may work well too but haven't tried it. I only had a 5.1 oz buffer on my arx39 at the time. Mine is also very manageable and on par with friend 300 bo or slightly softer. I just put in an extra steel insert so now it's 5.7 oz. girls x39. Definitely Shoots softer than my friends 300 bo and his duty colt 5.56. His 300 bo is rainier arms barrel carbine gas with .104" or .106" gas port (I forget), h buffer, FA bcg too. He was shooting supers that day and I was shooting fiocchi and American eagle x39 fmj out of mine. Of the couple hundred rounds that day only one jam but I blame ammo. Tried the fiocchi fmj x39 in my arx39. I blame ammo cause I knew a lot of the bullets were seated crooked. No joke! Oal were in spec and chambered manually before range trip so I just shot it anyway. Didn't care if it blew up cause that'll give me reason to make a new rifle :thumbsup: lol. - exaggeration of course.
Funny thing is I haven't shot my own ak yet cause I was having too much fun sighting in and messing with my arx39 and time ran out and had to leave. Oh well. My friend said my ak shoots nice as well. Have m472 muzzle brake and alg recoil spring. Stock g2 trigger.
Edit: my x39 has a slr synergy brake and the other has a vg6 gamma. Maybe muzzle brakes make difference too. mine looks like a battlecomp/ griffin armament brake with front prongs and the gamma is an actual brake with squarish side ports . The ak brake is fucking loud but after much reviewing it looked to be the best (not for the people sitting on my left or right at the range tho) to keep muzzle from slinging right. I shot an ak once before with a welded thread protector looking thing. Had a metal buttplate that felt like no parking sign pole.. I was use to ctr and standard plastic m4 stocks at the time I shot that ak. The only reason I got an ak was because of my arx39 rifles lol.
OP - if you plan on keeping the x39 upper, might wanna buy an extra bolt. They are known to break with steel ammo which is why I'm only shooting brass. Plus it's cleaner and don't have to worry bout corrosive ammo. Brass works good in ak's too lol. Expensive but works.
Does corrosive ammo affect aluminum (say 6061 or 7075) like how it does steel?
Good luck with your testing and have fun!
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An answer to my own question
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar-15-and-corrosive-ammo.588983/
I always thought it'd be a PITA. I'm OCD so I'd take forever cleaning it.
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Thanks for the info, aaronc :shaka:
That is very helpful
I think I'll get some brass ammo as well
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I got the c products mags in the mail
The front part of the mag is cut lower than the asc mags and pushing out the last round with my thumb is easier than the asc bc the last round sits higher in the c products mag
I'll add some pics later of how it looks
I ordered more cp mags in 20 and 28 rounds from the same place, North river distributor llc
They have a lot of other caliber cp mags also
www.northriverllc.com
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An answer to my own question
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar-15-and-corrosive-ammo.588983/
I always thought it'd be a PITA. I'm OCD so I'd take forever cleaning it.
How often are you seeing corrosive 7.62x39 locally? I shoot only steel in my AK and I'm all for cheap ammo. Just haven't seen corrosive stuff in a while. I'll see some corrosive 7.62x54r offered here and there. Last time I saw corrosive 7.62x39, I think it was Herters, was a while ago. That said, I don't really look for AK ammo that often, so maybe I just never noticed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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To be honest I only been shooting brass 7.62x39. I do have a few boxes of wolf and red army standard that were given to me as gifts but haven't used it.
I just treat all berdan primed stuff as corrosive. If you check forums like I have for reviewes.. even that WPA classic some have corrosive salts. Red army too. I think Geco is gtg since its boxer prime. That's what others in mainland said. Every once in a while they'll come across a box that's corrosive even when it's printed non corrosive. And their other box isn't corrosive.
Also I stay away from lacquer ammo. Apparently it gums up the ar15 chamber . My friend in the mainland (moved to Vegas) had ejecting problems after using 223. I believe it was wolf. So it's safe to assume that'll happen with x39 ammo in our x39 ar's. I just don't want to deal with the extra cleaning. Lastly, steel is much harder on the bolts for x39 ar15. Back in the day they made the bolts by milling out a 5.56. Now it's hardened after it's been milled out. Or however they are produced. Plus with advancements in steel types as well as special coatings .. Nickel boron (what I have) and nitride. The failure rate has dropped I think . I myself bought lmt bolts . 193 fucking dollars for one. And that's just a bolt with gas rings. No carrier. Made out of aermet 100 steel. Same as landing gears of f18 fighter jets. Suppose to be the best and prob the most expensive . Last I seen they were 242 a piece.
Lastly. I can reload my x39 ammo at my friends house. Just bring my own supplies. But can use his powder lol.
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I'm for cheap ammo too. But easier for me to stock up on one type of ammo. So I just work overtime a lot. Lol. In my ak47 I wouldn't mind corrosive . But the ar is a diff story for me
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I'm for cheap ammo too. But easier for me to stock up on one type of ammo. So I just work overtime a lot. Lol. In my ak47 I wouldn't mind corrosive . But the ar is a diff story for me
Just curious, but can you explain more about that thinking? Genuinely interested.
I'm very much an AR guy and pretty much shoot just brass there. I own two AKs, but don't shoot them much, but am hoping to shoot them more soon as I get them set up how I want. I have a bunch of Wolf (I think) and I've shot some ____ Bear stuff. I think it was Silver Bear, but I forget. I also bought an AK recently with a bunch of Norinco (Chinese I believe) ammo, that I recall the box stating non-corrosive. I'll have to check when I get home now that it's on my mind from discussion here.
Sorry OP. I'll start a new thread if this is going too far off the rails. . . :(
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No problem.
I don't think we are going off subject. Well maybe but I don't mind.
The more info the better.
I'm always willing to learn if others want to share their knowledge and experience. :shaka:
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I guess you could say the hardest part of cleaning an ak is the gas tube. But since it's so big cause it fits a piston it's fairly easy to clean. Most gas that's dispersed is in front of chamber. Maybe some on bolt. Large tolerance parts vs ar15 small tolerance parts.
Now for an ar15 (my particular arx39 rifles are gas impingement or DI) it'll be a pain in the ass to scrub clean on the inside, especially in the gas tube, gas block, under the trigger without me taking it apart. Best I could do is use hot soapy water or windex to get it in there and use gas tube cleaners. Or dunk the complete upper in my tub or something. Also would have to clean buffer tube. Idk maybe it's just me but I find that hard haha cause I'm lazy. I also recently bought a bore scope to check if I have gas port erosion. I'm a bit ocd so yeah lol. from what I read last night you could always dunk the complete rifle in hot soapy water then use a heat gun or blow dryer to get rid of all the water then lube regularly. But in my mind I would have that itchy feeling I would forget something. Some people say not to shoot poly coated ammo then brass right after. I forget their reasoning, but I know from friends that the chamber does get gummy .
It's all personal preference. The procedure I stated above is a good way to do it though and been proven to work. I would like to try and stay away from extensive moisture unless I absolutely need to. Like if shtf I would definitely use it a hurricance if need be.
I won't lie ak brass ammo is expensive. 19$ for 20 rounds of AE fmj. But my grouping was good at an inch or so at 100 (some were less than an inch, some were 1.5 or so) and at 50 yards I could clover leaf 15 rounds back to back. I also shot flyers which were my fault and called it to my friend who was spotting for me. Of course maybe a second or 2 or 3 between shots. I give it a good trade off . The fiocchi on the other hand was like 2-3 inch groups at 100 with a 2-7 scope.
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Sorry Stang!
But also there's the bolt breaking issue. Which is why I choose brass ammo over steel. They designed the ak for steel ammo so I'm certain they chose a harder steel. Plus if you have an ak. Look at the amount of metal that circles the base of a cartridge. It's a lot compared to a 7.62x39 ar15 bolt. That metal makes a difference. Which is why the cmmg mutant was designed with a modified ar10 bolt on a ar15 sized rifle. The cmmg mutant also uses ak47 standard mags for more reliable feeding. They thought that rifle through. I dunno anything bout ks47 or whatever by palmetto. Seems like the same designs almost as rra ar47 as well.
Problems with arx39 rifles.
1. Bolt breakage
2. Feeding problems due to mags
3. Feeding problems due to feed ramps
4. Failure to ignite berdan primers
I think that's all the main problems
Now here's the solutions
1. Better steel than old days/ hardening process after milling out the bolts to accept the larger round/ extra process to strengthen the bolt (nickel boron and nitriding)
2. Dremeling and sanding the front lip and side lips (plenty YouTube vids can explain better than I can)
3. Widening feed ramps with dremel. I had to do this with my ballistic advan. Barrel . Faxon was gtg. For a short while bushmaster made a ramp similar to 9mm ar15. They stopped the production years ago prob due to low amount of sales.
4."enhanced" firing pin. Can DYI or buy it. Just sand the shoulder of the rear to extend the firing pin prostrusion. Also have to use a full power hammer spring. I.e. No JP reduced springs. Unless you get that special JP hammer. I'm sure Geissele would work.
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$1 per round for brass cased 7.62x39? Dayum! I cap brass 5.56/.223 at $0.35 per round.
I'll read closer later and respond, but I wanted to chime in on the cautions of mixing steel cases and brass ammo. At least my understanding. The steel cases don't expand in the chamber like brass, so carbon and other stuff can get blown in and accumulate in the space. Then the problem (at least as many have reported) is when you follow that with shooting with brass ammo. The idea is that since brass expands when fired, if the AR chamber has build up, that can lead to extraction issues. To help that, guidance has been to clean chamber if shooting brass after steel.
That said, I've seen many guns to back and forth and no problems. And I've seen other guns choke. Personally, I don't shoot much steel cased. They don't function well in my mid-length ARs. I put together a carbine length AR that was with a known overgassed upper to test a theory that overgassed uppers can overcome some of the many reported issues with steel cases ammo. Particularly the dirty chamber thing as well as cheap ammo like Tula being underpowered. However, since I completed the gun, I haven't been able to find Tula cheap. Last time I saw it, it was selling at close to $360/1000, which was MORE than M193! Wtf? Haha.
I also stay away from lacquer coated ammo as well. Heard many bad things about shooing that's stuff, but I have yet to try it myself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Drck1000 . I think norinco ammo is corrosive? Or atleast a couple years ago it would be fo sure. my friends here and Vegas and Washington as well as plenty other members from other forums say if it's not made in USA and have berdan primers just treat it as corrosive and all is well. I think but don't quote me on this...
Red army ammo is made in 2 diff places in Russia / that area of the world. One country uses corrosive primers and the other is not. Someone from m4carbine.net actually had pulled the bullet and popped the primers on steel plates. He tested a couple brands and some were corrosive and some weren't .
The only one I trust not to be corrosive is hornady sst . I'm sure they have strict guidelines to follow. And hell they make the best commercial ammo in my opinion. I use their 9mm, 357 mag to date. In the past I used 6.8, 223, 308, 357 sig with all awesome results. I cut down on calibers and settled with x39, 357 mag, 9mm, 38 spl and 20 gauge.
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Hahha yeah that's definitely on the mark drck1000. The whole expanding thing. Thanks for adding that!
And yeah if Tula was that much something is wrong!
And yup I definitely too lazy to clean at the range as well. I try to carry bare minimum.. I got lazier and lazier over the years..
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Super sorry stangzilla..
One last thing I forgot to mention.
Advan barrel is .310 bore
Faxon barrel is hybrid .308/ .310 bore
(Definitely have no idea but that's what I was told when I spoke with them. I assume some lands are diff size)
GM barrel for ddi ak is .310.
All that info came from dealer direct and I confirmed with calipers except the 308 part on my faxon barrel.
AE ammo is .310"
Fiocchi is .309"
Winchester is .312" --- haven't shot but inquired with the company
Red army I have no idea lol
Wolf some came out .311 and some .310" from same box.
Idk how far up you can go beyond the size of your bore. Someone with knowledge on that can chime in if they want lol.
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I just got a few boxes of AE brass case 7.62x39
$18/20 rounds
I also have a case of wolf and case of tula
Test them all this weekend
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Sounds good stangzilla.
Let us know your results!
Wish I could go often but my RDOs are now Tuesday and Wednesday. Maybe August will be my next time out there lol
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I have a thought or two regarding the Chinese ammo made by Norinco. Back in the early to mid 90's I was buying cases of Norinco 9mm ammo. Most of it was headstamped 91-93. All brass cased, boxer primed, reloadable in some cases, and non corrosive. Obviously it was fresh as it was usually headstampped only a year or so before I bought it. When I was buying it, it was cheap and delivered via UPS to my front door. It is literally some of the best commercially made ammo I have ever bought. It is as accurate as anything I was reloading at the time. And cheaper, so I bought 15,000 rounds of it. Only complaint I had at the time was that it was loaded to what feels like +P velocities. And it is not marked as such. Now that I have had it for over 20 years I have two more complaints and that is that it is starting to corrode a little bit. I only have 800 or so rounds left so I'll shoot it up long before it goes bad. And it is really not reloadable as the primer pockets are inconsistent in size ranging from to small to too large in diameter between rounds.
If anyone would like to try some just PM me and I will be happy to work out a trade with you.
I can't say that the ammo you have for your AK is as good as what I have for my 9mm but from my experience, it should be.
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my 5th AR build
upper is from veriforcetactical https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-15-5-56-upper-15-inch-4-sided-m-lok-handguard-comp-fde/
lower is Aero Precision. I really like the tension screw on the lower, makes the fitment really tight. I believe it helps with the accuracy. milspec parts except for: PSA 2 stage trigger 4.5 lbs, KVP H2 buffer, JP Enterprise enhanced buffer spring, PSA nickel/boron bcg, ambidextrous CH, Spike's XL trigger guard, grip and stock will be replaced with magpul FDE parts just have not arrived yet. I have a Vortex scope and bipod that I have not installed yet. will update when the parts come in. :geekdanc:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49103302057_a1f43f26d4_b.jpg)
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my 5th AR build
upper is from veriforcetactical https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-15-5-56-upper-15-inch-4-sided-m-lok-handguard-comp-fde/
lower is Aero Precision. I really like the tension screw on the lower, makes the fitment really tight. I believe it helps with the accuracy. milspec parts except for: PSA 2 stage trigger 4.5 lbs, KVP H2 buffer, JP Enterprise enhanced buffer spring, PSA nickel/boron bcg, ambidextrous CH, Spike's XL trigger guard, grip and stock will be replaced with magpul FDE parts just have not arrived yet. I have a Vortex scope and bipod that I have not installed yet. will update when the parts come in. :geekdanc:
That’s an interesting rail. Looks pretty light.
50,000 rounds barrel life! That’s a LOT of $$$ for ammo!
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my 5th AR build
upper is from veriforcetactical https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-15-5-56-upper-15-inch-4-sided-m-lok-handguard-comp-fde/
lower is Aero Precision. I really like the tension screw on the lower, makes the fitment really tight. I believe it helps with the accuracy. milspec parts except for: PSA 2 stage trigger 4.5 lbs, KVP H2 buffer, JP Enterprise enhanced buffer spring, PSA nickel/boron bcg, ambidextrous CH, Spike's XL trigger guard, grip and stock will be replaced with magpul FDE parts just have not arrived yet. I have a Vortex scope and bipod that I have not installed yet. will update when the parts come in. :geekdanc:
finished the build with the Magpul furniture: ACS stock and MOE grip, and Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49160131238_22a5a0cd2c_b.jpg)
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finally shot the rifle
pretty good results. I'm really satisfied with the outcome. If I were a better shooter, the results would be better. not bad for what I call a medium budget AR.
5 shot group. 3 shots in the same hole. throw out the low flyer and its a half MOA. :geekdanc:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49416343698_8d1d8d2606_b.jpg)
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finally shot the rifle
pretty good results. I'm really satisfied with the outcome. If I were a better shooter, the results would be better. not bad for what I call a medium budget AR.
5 shot group. 3 shots in the same hole. throw out the low flyer and its a half MOA. :geekdanc:
Very nice shooting. We’ll say that low shot was a gust of wind. 😝
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Very nice shooting. We’ll say that low shot was a gust of wind. 😝
Actually, your comment is not far from the truth. I (used to) shoot a lot of .22 at 100 yards over on the right side of the rifle range. And it was quite obvious that a lot of my shots were being pushed down or pushed to the left when I let loose a shot during a windy period. When I let off a shot with no wind the shots grouped nicely. Being pushed to the left was a more common outcome but being pushed down happened often enough that I finally put a flag out by my frame and I'll be damned the wind really swirls around out there. Including swirling down. So a gust of wind? Absolutely possible. :P :P :P
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Actually, your comment is not far from the truth. I (used to) shoot a lot of .22 at 100 yards over on the right side of the rifle range. And it was quite obvious that a lot of my shots were being pushed down or pushed to the left when I let loose a shot during a windy period. When I let off a shot with no wind the shots grouped nicely. Being pushed to the left was a more common outcome but being pushed down happened often enough that I finally put a flag out by my frame and I'll be damned the wind really swirls around out there. Including swirling down. So a gust of wind? Absolutely possible. :P :P :P
Very nice shooting. We’ll say that low shot was a gust of wind. 😝
it was a gusty day. rainy too. could've been the rain pushing the projectile down.
but I think it was just me. :shaka:
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finally shot the rifle
pretty good results. I'm really satisfied with the outcome. If I were a better shooter, the results would be better. not bad for what I call a medium budget AR.
5 shot group. 3 shots in the same hole. throw out the low flyer and its a half MOA. :geekdanc:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49416343698_8d1d8d2606_b.jpg)
NICE! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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it was a gusty day. rainy too. could've been the rain pushing the projectile down.
but I think it was just me. :shaka:
I revise to "rain pushing the projectile down" ;D
I am looking forward to testing out FGMM and Black Hills with my LPVO upper. It's not intended for uber-precision, but it's shown promise with some of my "range fodder" ammo. I'll try to pick a day that is gusty and rainy. :P
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I brought 69 gr GMM, 68 gr black hills, and 77 gr black hills. I was so happy with my results from the GMM that I didnt even try any of the black hills ammo. I'll save that for next time
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I brought 69 gr GMM, 68 gr black hills, and 77 gr black hills. I was so happy with my results from the GMM that I didnt even try any of the black hills ammo. I'll save that for next time
I shot BH 77 gr OTM and I have some other BH stuff, but don't know the weights/heads. I also have 69 and 77 gr SMK FGMM. Really looking forward to trying the FGMM. My barrel didn't seem to like the 77 gr OTM, but that was a box of seconds, or at least I wasn't particularly impressed.
Interesting when a particular gun shoots the much cheaper Hornady American Gunner HP Match better than the more popular match rounds. Now, I'm always on the lookout for sales on the bulk packs of that ammo. ;D
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My 18" barrel didn't like the reloaded (blue box) 77gr OTM Black Hills .223. I haven't tried it in another gun, but didn't feel like buying more.
Gene at HGS told me to try out the Federal Lake City FC262. Same specs as the Black Hills 5.56 stuff. I liked it a lot, but I think Federal stopped making it.
Young Guns has a sale for 77gr IMI Razor Core 5.56. I heard decent stuff about it and will be trying it out as soon as I get some.
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My 18" barrel didn't like the reloaded (blue box) 77gr OTM Black Hills .223. I haven't tried it in another gun, but didn't feel like buying more.
Gene at HGS told me to try out the Federal Lake City FC262. Same specs as the Black Hills 5.56 stuff. I liked it a lot, but I think Federal stopped making it.
Young Guns has a sale for 77gr IMI Razor Core 5.56. I heard decent stuff about it and will be trying it out as soon as I get some.
I had the same blue box of BH (reloaded/remanufactured, not seconds like I mentioned above). I mean it shot ok, but I had better results with 193. I haven't shot any of the red box with this particular upper yet. I'll have to check, but I think I have 69 gr SMK and 75 gr HP.
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first AR308 build
lower is Aero Precision. upper is made by Veriforce Tactical using a 18" 10:1 Ballistic Advantage barrel, tank muzzle brake, LuthAR MBA5 stock
waiting on the scope mount to arrive soon
can't wait to shoot it. :geekdanc:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49577643668_d69aab8689_b.jpg)
used this vid for a reference on the build
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVHljd08kA0
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Rain pushes projectiles up, not down. FWIW.
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rainy too. could've been the rain pushing the projectile down.
Think of the probability of even encountering one raindrop during the bullet flight. The quantitiy of rain to increase the chance of encounter would be amazing.
As to affecting the bullet flight, it would appear the drop could contact the bullet on top, bottom, or sides, so any deflection (if possible) would be random. The drop is moving far more slowly than the bullet, so any contact would be totally random, regardless of the downward vector of rain.
Wind of course is not so random.
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Rain pushes projectiles up, not down. FWIW.
Think of the probability of even encountering one raindrop during the bullet flight. The quantitiy of rain to increase the chance of encounter would be amazing.
As to affecting the bullet flight, it would appear the drop could contact the bullet on top, bottom, or sides, so any deflection (if possible) would be random. The drop is moving far more slowly than the bullet, so any contact would be totally random, regardless of the downward vector of rain.
Wind of course is not so random.
it was a gusty day. rainy too. could've been the rain pushing the projectile down.
but I think it was just me. :shaka:
the rain was just a joke. O0
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Rain interacts with the shockwave around the bullet, not the bullet itself. Since most of the shockwave is behind the bullet, rain pushes it down, causing the tip to go up. But unless your rifle shoots everything through the same hole, you're not going to notice the effects of rain. Unless it fogs your scope....
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got it all together
hopefully test it out this weekend
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49595447906_215fbfe109_b.jpg)
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got it all together
hopefully test it out this weekend
Nice! Yeah, definitely not going to be shooting next to that brake. ;D
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tested it with 20 rounds of 150 grain Federal American Eagle and 20 rounds of 168 grain Federal GMM
this was the best group of the day, average was about 1.5". which was pretty good considering was super windy Saturday morning, even blew my sandbag off the bench
among other parts, I used a JP Enterprise enhanced reliability trigger/hammer spring kit ($7) and a PSA nickel boron/Teflon milspec trigger/hammer ($30). $37 for a 4 lbs single stage trigger. it's pretty great for 37 bucks. no light strikes with the 40 rounds I shot.
still got a couple other parts i'll swap out when they arrive shortly, just a couple minor parts.
maybe i'll try some reloads next and see how it shoots
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49601237483_fba1ff3ece_b.jpg)
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Awesome!
Yeah, it was pretty windy at the range Sat. I was at the pistol range from around 11 ish and it was so windy that I could feel the wind pushing me off the line at times. A squall came through and it was so windy that it was driving the rain probably 5-6 feet inside of the shooting counter/table! Luckily I was finishing up about then, but the weather was wild!
Have you tried the 175 gr FGMM? I've read where many guns show a pretty distinct difference between the two. I'd have to check my notes, but I've shot both the 175 and 168 in my Rem 700 and I recall them being pretty close.
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Awesome!
Yeah, it was pretty windy at the range Sat. I was at the pistol range from around 11 ish and it was so windy that I could feel the wind pushing me off the line at times. A squall came through and it was so windy that it was driving the rain probably 5-6 feet inside of the shooting counter/table! Luckily I was finishing up about then, but the weather was wild!
Have you tried the 175 gr FGMM? I've read where many guns show a pretty distinct difference between the two. I'd have to check my notes, but I've shot both the 175 and 168 in my Rem 700 and I recall them being pretty close.
I've tried the 175gr in my bolt gun. I remember the 168 did slightly better. but its worth another try in this gun. different gun, maybe different results. although the barrels are same length and twist. 18" and 1:10
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I've tried the 175gr in my bolt gun. I remember the 168 did slightly better. but its worth another try in this gun. different gun, maybe different results. although the barrels are same length and twist. 18" and 1:10
I also have Remington Match King 175 gr (I think) that did pretty well. I got that when it was on sale at OGC. I can give you some to try if you're interested. Maybe we need a precision rifle day. ;D
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I also have Remington Match King 175 gr (I think) that did pretty well. I got that when it was on sale at OGC. I can give you some to try if you're interested. Maybe we need a precision rifle day. ;D
I would be down for that. :thumbsup:
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I also have Remington Match King 175 gr (I think) that did pretty well. I got that when it was on sale at OGC. I can give you some to try if you're interested. Maybe we need a precision rifle day. ;D
or just a rifle day, bc I don't have any actual precision rifles :shaka:
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changed the stock from the LuthAR MB5 to the MB4 just bc its FDE
I already had the MB4 on another rifle but looks better on this one O0
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49779260251_3876194939_b.jpg)
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changed the stock from the LuthAR MB5 to the MB4 just bc its FDE
I already had the MB4 on another rifle but looks better on this one O0
SNIP
Looks good! If you can't shoot good, might as well look good. ;D J/K
Does that MB4 have adjustments for more precision shooting? Like adjustments for comb height? It looks like it has opportunities for that.
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Looks good! If you can't shoot good, might as well look good. ;D J/K
Does that MB4 have adjustments for more precision shooting? Like adjustments for comb height? It looks like it has opportunities for that.
You can add a cheek piece and butt plates
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basic build for HD/bugout. so just want it to be reliable, fairly accurate, optic for fast target acquisition at close range
Aero Precision lower, billet upper by Veriforce Tactical with 16" SS barrel 1:8 twist billed as sub-MOA, with proprietary micro brake. build is nothing fancy
trigger is PSA nickel/boron like a ALG/ACT. everything else is pretty much milspec except the trigger guard is strike industries bc I already had it
just waiting on the optic (Holosun 510c) and the iron sights to arrive.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49868619338_5bbabb2ae5_b.jpg)
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refreshing an old Spikes lower. I used to have a 7.62x39 upper on it but I hardly ever shot it. so I decided to make more of a home defense AR instead
changed upper to a Aero Precision in 5.56, changed the A2 flash hider to a Strike Industries sail comp
trigger changed to RRA 2 stage NM trigger, MOE K2 pistol grip
changed optic to Holosun 510c
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974075588_e051703c9a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974076433_102f5d06f6_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974857782_3f46dc98fb_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974858272_bbeab85754_b.jpg)
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changed some things on the AR308
optic is now a Vortex 1-8 SFP LPVO
changed the stock to Magpul ACS L
had to change the bolt stop to a 308 one bc I had a AR15 one in there by mistake and it wasn't locking back on an empty mag. so now working good
sighted in the optic this past weekend with a friend of mine, I think we got it pretty good :shaka:
that's the best grouping of the day, the average was about double what is in the pic, which I think is pretty good for PMC cheapo ammo
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52879234525_287c83c0bb_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52902572411_2fc38b18cf_b.jpg)
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made a few more changes on the AR308
changed to a Rise Armament 140 DTOM trigger, added Limb Saver buttstock pad, and bought a couple FDE mags
test the trigger this week. its 2 lbs 10 oz on my gauge. the old trigger was pretty good too, 3 lbs 5 oz. old trigger was the ACT combat trigger with JP Enterprise reduced power springs
the Rise Armament trigger has no take up and short reset and is 11 oz lighter than the old trigger
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52985236413_d61a8a0354_b.jpg)
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changed a couple things on my other AR. this is chambered in the usual 5.56
changed the trigger to the Rise Armament 140 DTOM trigger. it pulls an average 2 lbs 3 oz
changed the optic to a Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10x24 SFP. it's comparable to a Vortex Strike Eagle LPVO in glass clarity and overall quality
trigger was a PSA 2 stage which averaged 3 lbs 3 oz, which was a good trigger too, but the Rise Armament is a little better, no take up and shorter reset
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52989726370_f9704a763f_b.jpg)
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I had this PSA upper and LPK, Ruger lower for a while. didn't know what I wanted to do with it. still not quite sure of the final purpose of this rifle. but I had a day off and decided to build it bc there was nothing to watch on tv.
it is a Ruger lower, PSA upper with PSA LPK, Rise Armament 140 trigger, Magpul stock, Holosun 510c green optic, PSA BCG. pretty basic with a good trigger and optic. I'll probably change some things as I go along, I'm sure. but for now I'll keep it simple
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53013260859_84c20366b8_b.jpg)
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I had more extra parts lying around, so I figure I'll do one more.....for now ;)
Aero m4e1 lower and aero atlas r1 upper, magpul moe grip, mission first tactical minimalist stock, aero ambi breach ch, rise Armament trigger, toolcraft NiB bcg. Waiting on the vortex lpvo and veriforce tactical micro compensator
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53029975539_6237c491e4_b.jpg)
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I've come to learn what things are important to me, what I like to upgrade
Latest build embodies that
Aero Precision lower. Veriforce Tactical upper
Rise Armament 140 trigger, Magpul MOE K2 grip, Strike Industries Mod1 stock, Strike Industries enhanced bolt catch, Spikes Tactical trigger guard, Aero Pro bcg, Aero Breach large CH, stainless sub-moa barrel, micro compensator, Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 LPVO
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53098166428_21c003a658_b.jpg)