2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Jl808 on February 09, 2016, 10:46:04 AM
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On Thursday 2/11 1:15pm, PSM committee is also having a hearing on a couple of bills that will share the firearms registration records with the Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center. What do you guys think?
SB2954 - Firearms; Registration; Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center; Database Management
Authorizes the Hawaii criminal justice data center to access firearm registration data.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2954
SB2960 - Criminal History Record Checks; Police Department; Rap Back Program; Firearm Possession
Allows the county police departments to receive notification if a new applicant who is granted a permit to possess a firearm is arrested for a criminal offense anywhere in the country.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2960
Deadline for submitting online testimony is tomorrow Wednesday 1:15pm. Please testify.
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On Thursday 2/11 1:15pm, PSM committee is also having a hearing on a couple of bills that will share the firearms registration records with the Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center. What do you guys think?
SB2954 - Firearms; Registration; Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center; Database Management
Authorizes the Hawaii criminal justice data center to access firearm registration data.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2954
SB2960 - Criminal History Record Checks; Police Department; Rap Back Program; Firearm Possession
Allows the county police departments to receive notification if a new applicant who is granted a permit to possess a firearm is arrested for a criminal offense anywhere in the country.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2960
Deadline for submitting online testimony is tomorrow Wednesday 1:15pm. Please testify.
more bills that are, on the surface, difficult to oppose
we have to be careful that nothing gets past our notice
and ALWAYS remember that a bill can get changed significantly in crossover/conference committee (without public comment)
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Since all legal firearms are registered, and if someone gets arrested they can check to see if the offender has guns, why should the rest of us be registered in a "criminal" database? I'll be testifying against this.
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Retirement can come soon enough so I can leave this place. This type of stuff is really screwed up. Decent law abiding citizens are subjected to a microscope and the Police can run a muck with no consequences.
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As long as it doesn't over reach! Or have any funky hidden shit in it! I have no problem with them checking criminal history against Firearms reg. and no problem with crime reporting back to Hawaii! You rob a gas station in Mississippi you shouldn't own a gun in Hawaii!
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As long as it doesn't over reach! Or have any funky hidden shit in it! I have no problem with them checking criminal history against Firearms reg. and no problem with crime reporting back to Hawaii! You rob a gas station in Mississippi you shouldn't own a gun in Hawaii!
This is overreach.
They want to register ALL firearms owners into a CRIMINAL DATABASE. There is no need for it as the law already requires convicted felons to either surrender their guns or have them confiscated. The county police forces on all islands have all the access they need to perform this task.
As far as SB 2960, it represents a backhanded attempt at national firearms registration. Not by registering firearms, but their owners. There is without a doubt a similar measure being introduced in every state legislature, if they don't already have it.
These bills have "Funky shit" written right on the cover page.
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Oh yeah, DONE. :grrr:
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The law already requires that a convicted felon surrender all firearms or have them confiscated. Police departments have access to such knowledge and should be using such public databases to do their background checks and process. Thus, keeping weapons out of the hands of criminals. Data basing private firearms owners, who have no criminal record, nor conviction of felonious activities, should not be treated as such. Logging and data basing on the grounds of 'being a gun owner' is a huge infringement of law abiding citizen's privacy, and in my humble opinion, VERY unconstitutional. Please focus laws on catching, prosecuting, and punishing CRIMINALS, not the law abiding gun owners. Thank You.
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This is overreach.
They want to register ALL firearms owners into a CRIMINAL DATABASE. There is no need for it as the law already requires convicted felons to either surrender their guns or have them confiscated. The county police forces on all islands have all the access they need to perform this task.
As far as SB 2960, it represents a backhanded attempt at national firearms registration. Not by registering firearms, but their owners. There is without a doubt a similar measure being introduced in every state legislature, if they don't already have it.
These bills have "Funky shit" written right on the cover page.
I must have missed the part where they want to compile firearm owners into a criminal data base?? I've read it over a few times to see if i missed anything the law is written in a manner for them to have access to the information. As you stated they already have the info it doesn't expose firearms owners anymore than we already are living in the Liberal state of Hawaii. As for SB2960 The Rap back program is not a veiled attempt at a "National Gun Reg". The Rap back program is a long standing program many states use for data sharing. They use it for a variety of occupations and positions from School Teachers and Public Library workers that have contact with young kids to Human Services employees to Executive Officers appointed to banks. Its a way for criminal history to be shared among different states. That way when a dude gets charged for sex crimes against children ....He ca't get on a plane and get a job as a teacher in Hawaii! As i stated before if you go and get charged for beating the shit out of your girl and terrorist threatening or Armed robbery you shouldn't be able to come to Hawaii and own a firearm. We as firearm owners don't need individuals like that owning a gun it only reflects poorly back on us as a whole. Now some will say ya but when you get your permit HPD does the FBI NICS check before issuing you and that would show any crime and you'd be right but not totally. State and local police are not required to submit criminal-record data to the FBI and the way Hawaii's system is set up its only done once a year! Unlike other states where every time you buy a firearm ...well from an FFL your ran through FBI's NICS data base. Again the SB2960 is permitting our local PD to receive notification if your arrested in another state. At which point they look at the Offenses you have been arrested for and charged with. I have read through both bills and don't see anything to get my panties in a bunch about! What has our Hawaii Rifle Association said about this subject? I am not a lawyer and i can't say i understand the language that bills are written in so if i have missed anything please set me straight! If there is anything funky in there I will be right next to ya brother protesting it!!
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I think this is redundant in that if a law enforcement officer wanted to investigate these things, they can already. The synchronization of data just makes it easier which might things more efficient. I don't mind the proposal insofar as I am correct on my understanding that nothing really changes in terms of what law enforcement officers know.
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IMO, a feel good law that spends more money, on a process of thorough investigation that is and should be already being used, and does nothing to curb criminals. Yet another piece that will waste tax money, on an issue that is already addressed.
All this does no real good, but just to pander to the democratic base, and appease the noisy minority.
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Here's the deal. People are ready for an outright revolt against the Democratic party in Hawaii. They are scared for their political lives, so they are going to keep pushing these populist non-issues in an attempt to appear to be doing their jobs. The problems of wealth inequality, homelessness, and corruption won't be addressed but they hope this will be enough to make their problems go away in November. It's a great opportunity for outsider candidates, and as the gentrification continues and critical infrastructure fails the opportunities will increase.
So if managing a crumbling concrete jungle infested by increasingly violent psychotic illiterates is your thing, there's never a better time to start declaring your candidacy. Even if people don't like you, they hate the status quo more.
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Question. Is the HRA or HDF 2nd amendment organizations doing or saying anything?
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I think this is redundant in that if a law enforcement officer wanted to investigate these things, they can already. The synchronization of data just makes it easier which might things more efficient. I don't mind the proposal insofar as I am correct on my understanding that nothing really changes in terms of what law enforcement officers know.
Yes as far as i read your understanding is correct! This just makes it so if a crime is committed they are notified! plain and simple! As far as i understand! lol
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Question. Is the HRA or HDF 2nd amendment organizations doing or saying anything?
Good question!? Lets hear it HRA and HDF. I know those kats got to have a 2A account!
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If any of you are paying these organizations, check their websites because i think did not see these important issues on their website being posted.
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If any of you are paying these organizations, check their websites because i think did not see these important issues on their website being posted.
Ya your right on HRA The latest Legislative News is 2013?? WTF
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Sad right??!?! Smh looks like someones "asleep at the wheel"
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Let's try not to turn this into a HRA bashing. They are there working, and it is just as important to support them.
The time is now for YOU, as an individual, to speak up and oppose any antigun legislation that arises. They work for us at those hearings, when we all cannot attend. The individual testifier carries as much weight, many be more, than a HRA representative's testimony. Both are equal and important if we want our rights to remain.
Stay on top of this and submit YOUR individual testimony. Even if you disagree with some of us on the issue here, submit 'comments only', but please suggest to these lawmakers, many of whom have not clue one of firearms acquisition and/or usage, a better way for the law to be written, as to preserve our rights to self defense.
Remember most of them know very little or nothing about this topic that they are trying to legislate upon.
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Let's try not to turn this into a HRA bashing. They are there working, and it is just as important to support them.
The time is now for YOU, as an individual, to speak up and oppose any antigun legislation that arises. They work for us at those hearings, when we all cannot attend. The individual testifier carries as much weight, many be more, than a HRA representative's testimony. Both are equal and important if we want our rights to remain.
Stay on top of this and submit YOUR individual testimony. Even if you disagree with some of us on the issue here, submit 'comments only', but please suggest to these lawmakers, many of whom have not clue one of firearms acquisition and/or usage, a better way for the law to be written, as to preserve our rights to self defense.
Remember most of them know very little or nothing about this topic that they are trying to legislate upon.
OOh i hear ya brother but last up date to a website 2013 Sorry homie Not laying down on that! Keeping the community informed is just as important as them representing us at these hearings! I ain't blasting them just saying someones dropping the ball use to get Alerts via email from Mrs Shaw but last one i received was back in NOV!
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Definitely not trying to bash just stating the truth dear friend. Glad some individual took it upon themselves to mention this 2nd amendment issue. Maybe some of that charitable money should go to that person instead. Lol (sarcasm)
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Guys lets not bash HRA. HRA personnel are volunteers. The money's sent to HRA goes to fund activities to help lobby for our rights locally.
If you think HRA can do more, volunteer and ask how you can help make HRA stronger.
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Thank you jl808 for the information. Just want people to make knowledgeable decisions and donations as well.
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Guys lets not bash HRA. HRA personnel are volunteers. The money's sent to HRA goes to fund activities to help lobby for our rights locally.
If you think HRA can do more, volunteer and ask how you can help make HRA stronger.
HDF is helping jl808 as much as we can
a few of us are working with jl to plan bigger and better efforts in the future
HDF is a tiny organization both in terms of manpower and dollarpower relative to HRA, who we also support wholeheartedly
this is not the time to divide, it is time to work together
i feel like this is a pivotal session for 2a in hawaii and am VERY concerned about the situation
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I agree lets not divide ourselves. Can you give us an example of what to write in our testament against this broad and vague bill?
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Let us please not divide as gun owners, whether firearm enthusiasts, gun club member, competitors, hunters, soldiers, emergency responders, cowboy shooters, veterans, hobbyists, etc. Support your gun clubs and gun community and become more active.
We need to band and vote together or hang individually.
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I agree lets not divide ourselves. Can you give us an example of what to write in our testament against this broad and vague bill?
Regarding the HCJDC accessing the gun registration records, I don't believe other agencies should have access to personal information contained in those records. It is not only local PD that accesses the HCJDC database. And why expose our addresses, social security numbers, etc unnecessarily?
And yes, as Edster put it, as legal and registered gun owners, we undergo more background checks than most people and are not criminals.
The Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center (HCJDC) is an agency of the Department of the Attorney General in the State of Hawaii and is responsible for the statewide criminal history record information system (CJIS-Hawaii), the statewide Automated Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS), the statewide SexOffender and Other Covered Offender Registry, and the Adult Criminal Conviction Information Web Site (eCrim).
I had a hard time coming up with a reason against the gun Rap Back bill. However, if you combine it with the other bills that they are pushing (mental health, gun confiscation bill), it puts our rights as gun owners at risk.
Not 100% sure on this but let's say you get cited for being drunk in Vegas, combine the Rap Back bill and Mental health/Gun Confiscation bill, do you now get all your firearms sized when you get back in Hawaii?
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Wow you are right about that. Because its so vague and oddly jumbled it could be interpreted in so many bad ways. Ive never drank and drive before but just the thought. Thanks for the eye opener and response. Ill be sure to send my testimony with words along those lines.
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Something to add about the data sharing.
The information in the firearms registration records contain Personally Identifiable Information (PII). The health industry has extensive laws under HIPAA to protect someone's PII and health records. We are law abiding and not criminals. What assurance do we have regarding the handling of our PII by HCJDC and other agencies accessing it?
There has to be something here regarding protecting our privacy.
Wikipedia on PII
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personally_identifiable_information
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Guys just want to say that this bill has pros and cons. I actually have mixed feelings about this.
I am erring on the side of caution (testifying against it), but I see the benefits for local LEO to have access to other counties firearm registration info. Please read, deliberate and think through this bill to see how you would like to testify.
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Guys lets not bash HRA. HRA personnel are volunteers. The money's sent to HRA goes to fund activities to help lobby for our rights locally.
If you think HRA can do more, volunteer and ask how you can help make HRA stronger.
Again no one is bashing on HRA. If I had a minute in the day I would Brother! Look i think its ridiculous that us asking that the website be updated a little sooner than 2013 is considered bashing!? There are a total of 20 Directors/ Officers/ Committee Chairs. Don't make excuses.
I do appreciate your view on the following bills!
Not sure how you make the jump from driving drunk to having your firearms taken away? Now yes if you commit a crime in another state that if committed in Hawaii you would have lost your rights to own guns then you can bet they will pull your firearms! Again the RAP back program is used for many reason its not just a gun bill! I understand we have to be very careful and very wary of new gun bills but what we can't do is just hold up signs every time a bill comes hits the floor... just because we think its a slippery slope! Their putting freakin Liberians on the RAP back program seems to me it would be kinda foolish to take a stand on a bill that seems at least face value to be a good bill! As for the PII no matter the assurance you know what can happened. Hell I work for the US Dept. of State and if they can't keep our PII safe you can bet local gov't organizations def can't lol!
At the end of the day no matter how you feel about the bill at least we are talking about them and are informed! Thats all i ask .....life gets busy and yes i need someone to hold my hand and send me alerts when firearms bills are being voted on! I know i should be proactive and check all the time but thats life and thats why we have a HRA and the other numerous great things they do! They are doing a very good job! All i ask is that they keep their eye on the one of the most important reason for being an organization and let their members know how they feel about said bills and what should be done! :shaka:
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Just posted about 5 hrs ago by Hawaii CCW on FB!
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/sb2956_.htm
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Thanks RookWorx. +1 on your comments above.
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Spreadsheet updated as of 2/11/2016 4:45pm.
A big thank you to the HRA and Dr. Max Cooper for reviewing and clarifying / providing a position on the various bills!
Link to spreadsheet -> https://goo.gl/1kZGOI
Major updates as of this afternoon. Nothing good for us.
- SB2647 (Fines for Sale of Ivory) passed with amendments by JDL committee
- SB2954 (Firearm database, Hawaii Criminal JDC) passed with amendments by PSM committee
- SB2956 (Mental illness; Firearms surrender) passed unamended by PSM committee
- SB2950 (Rapback System) passed unamended by PSM committee
- HB2629 (Rapback System) passed with amendments by PBS committee
- HB2632 (Mental Illness, Firearm seizure) decision making on Friday 2/12/2016 11:30am in conference room 329.
Guys, this year is not time to sit back.
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So why are a group of people who already have gone through a thorough background check against federal and local databases, medical check for mental illness being related to a criminal database? We shouldnt be in the HCJ Db to begin with or vice versa.
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So why are a group of people who already have gone through a thorough background check against federal and local databases, medical check for mental illness being related to a criminal database? We shouldnt be in the HCJ Db to begin with or vice versa.
Exactly.
They purposely write these bills as broadly as possible to allow the greatest amount of latitude in how it can be "interpreted" in court. Maybe some here are right, they won't just list us in the database next to rapists and pedophiles, but how long do you think it will be before we are, and they are saying "It's just easier and more efficient that way, as long as you haven't DONE anything you have nothing to worry about."? This is just a variation on the old "Do it for the children" theme.
Jl808 is right. this isn't a time for us to be squabbling amongst ourselves. As I and many others have said before, were we all to vote as one, we would be one of the largest voting blocs in the state. A power to be reckoned with.
At this point I say better safe than sorry when it comes to ANY bills concerning our rights. If there is the slightest question regarding legislation, it should be opposed. These bills accomplish NOTHING in regards to keeping citizens safe or the apprehension of criminals. The states can't even manage to consistently report information on criminals to the NICS database, or for that matter arrest and prosecute felons that attempt to violate the law and purchase firearms when they are caught in the NICS system. What good will having our information accomplish?