Post by: Jl808 on February 20, 2016, 09:19:47 AM
Members believe what they believe and it is what it is.
My hope is that we can get past this and continue a conversation where we can find common ground to continue support and defense of our second amendment rights.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/02/05/millennials-have-a-higher-opinion-of-socialism-than-of-capitalism/
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2016/02/Screen-Shot-2016-02-05-at-9.48.33-AM-e1454683771116.png&w=1484)
Quote
As you can see, overall, 52 percent expressed a favorable view of capitalism, compared with 29 percent for socialism. Republicans, those in families earning more than $100,000, and people age 65-plus had an especially high regard for capitalism compared with socialism, but respondents in almost every demographic category demonstrated the same preference to some degree.
There were just two exceptions to this pattern: Democrats rated socialism and capitalism equally positively (both at 42 percent favorability). And respondents younger than 30 were the only group that rated socialism more favorably than capitalism (43 percent vs. 32 percent, respectively).
The millennial demographics is different from the previous generation. Is this a just factor of youth? When we were young, were we not "rebellious" and felt that we knew more than our elders because we could set the clock on the VCR?
What are the attitudes of the millennial generation towards gun control / gun rights? Is a preference for "democratic socialism" incompatible with a preference for individual gun rights?
Feel free to discuss and please avoid personal attacks and refrain from turning this into a flame war. I will lock the thread if it gets to that point.
Post by: dustoff003 on February 20, 2016, 10:57:54 AM
here are some links to see what generation you are, http://www.thecalculator.co/personality/What-generation-am-I-Generation-Calculator-206.htmlhttp://www.careerplanner.com/Career-Articles/Generations.cfm
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/03/here-is-when-each-generation-begins-and-ends-according-to-facts/359589/
There is slight difference in generation beginning and end times between sources.
I have a more favorable view of capitalism and pretty much abhor socialism maybe because I am a little older from the beginning of the millennial zone.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 20, 2016, 11:45:04 AM
I am almost 33 so I just escaped being a millennial right?
Post by: Heavies on February 20, 2016, 12:16:53 PM
With age come that realization, for some people, that NOTHING IN THIS WORLD IS FREE.... It doesn't help that education does not teach these things to kids, and many never learn it, even as adults.
Post by: Kuleana on February 20, 2016, 02:34:34 PM
The millennial demographics is different from the previous generation. Is this a just factor of youth? When we were young, were we not "rebellious" and felt that we knew more than our elders because we could set the clock on the VCR?
From a geopolitical standpoint, the millennials were born after the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. Hence, they never were constantly reminded on a daily basis how anything and everything socialist/communist was supposedly "evil." In contrast, everyone born prior was indoctrinated through both education and the mass media that capitalism was somehow God's gift to the Free World. This fact alone could help explain the demographic data results in your original post.
What are the attitudes of the millennial generation towards gun control / gun rights? Is a preference for "democratic socialism" incompatible with a preference for individual gun rights?
This is very interesting because even though a number of millennials show a more liberal tendency, it is still unclear if they are advocates of gun control as a whole. Moreover, as many millennials are keen to such video games such as "Call to Duty" and the like, I would like to hope that they are at least partial to the 2nd Amendment.
As to your second question, I personally do not see any incapability between democratic socialism and the 2nd Amendment and always try to educate left leaning individuals of this. Unfortunately, at least on this forum, instead of trying to gain 2nd Amendment allies among those partially sympathetic to socialism or have liberal views, there are those who reinforce this incompatibility, thereby, further alienating those on the left who are open to the maintenance of gun rights in this country.
Kuleana
Post by: Big All on February 20, 2016, 04:51:08 PM
Post by: Jl808 on February 20, 2016, 05:14:47 PM
Are the beliefs in gun rights and in "democratic socialism" compatible?
Post by: robtmc on February 20, 2016, 06:21:05 PM
Just a reminder. Topic is about Millennials (and / or Democrats) that have a favorable view of socialism, not socialism itself. And in how they relate to gun ownership.I dunno how true, or if they are too stupid/uneducated to know that the big gubmint that comes with socialism is almost certain to be against personal firearm ownership.
The horror stories I hear and read about how distorted what is taught these days leaves me with little hope, but at least an undersanding how the survey results happened. "History"? Dead white guys. Social justice is where it is at.
Let leftists teach your kids, see what you reap.
Post by: Kuleana on February 20, 2016, 06:53:52 PM
I dunno how true, or if they are too stupid/uneducated to know that the big gubmint that comes with socialism is almost certain to be against personal firearm ownership.
Who says all socialists are against guns?
Please see https://socialistgunreview.wordpress.com/about/ for details.
Kuleana
Post by: robtmc on February 20, 2016, 08:11:07 PM
"the big gubmint that comes with socialism" Big gubmints tend to distrust armed citizens.
Not All Socialists? Perhaps, but desperately few modern socialist governments if any, and I do not give a shit to go look for them.
Post by: Kuleana on February 20, 2016, 08:53:50 PM
I make it a general rule to not converse with the left, but in this case since you seem to have misread what i wrote:
"the big gubmint that comes with socialism" Big gubmints tend to distrust armed citizens.
Not All Socialists? Perhaps, but desperately few modern socialist governments if any, and I do not give a shit to go look for them.
You are absolutely correct.
However, even nations who practice capitalism, albeit crony capitalism, also are prone to restricting gun ownership. The Philippines under the US backed Marcos regime did not allow gun ownership to its citizens. Consequently, I will add to your point by saying any nation that has a big government, even a nation that practices capitalism, does not necessarily translate to citizens having the right to bear arms.
By-the-way, I am not a leftist, but a political and economic ideological pragmatist. :shaka:
Kuleana
Post by: robtmc on February 21, 2016, 08:32:52 AM
Big gubmint of any sort is bad news. Been the mantra of the traditional (not current McCain style) right for a long time.
Post by: Mauivigilance on February 21, 2016, 10:02:28 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on February 21, 2016, 02:40:34 PM
Post by: Jl808 on February 21, 2016, 08:36:46 PM
https://youtu.be/ZDXuPQ9ML9E
LOL! Wow, I hope this was meant as a satire. This is probably what the left is arguing against when they rail against the "evils of capitalism" (let me clarify, "crony capitalism").
When the interests of government and the interests of big business align more than less, then this is the big government influence that money can buy.
Post by: Mauivigilance on February 21, 2016, 11:05:21 PM
https://youtu.be/ZDXuPQ9ML9E
Bwahahaha i literally laughed so hard at this vid. Its so funny because its true......... *laughter fades as i shook my head in disappointment*
Post by: hvybarrels on February 22, 2016, 12:46:21 AM
I think older people have been more successfully indoctrinated because they experienced the last salad days of empire when things actually worked as promised and people weren't struggling just to meet their basic needs. They carry with them that nostalgia and fading hope that the good old days will come back, whereas millenials have grown up in a decaying system and have a much more difficult time imagining a brighter future. They realize they will never have what their parents had, and are fed up with unrealistic expectations of the previous generation that basically had a giant capitalist orgy and stuck them with the bill.
"When I was your age blabidy blah blah blah..."
Yeah, thanks for the deficit spending Grandpa. It's going to be a lot of fun never paying that off.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 22, 2016, 06:33:14 AM
Intelligence certainly does come with age but I also find that it comes with stubbornness. Case in point, I tried to take my grandma (about 80 at the time) to a mexican restaurant. She said no, that she didn't like mexican but then admitted she never tried it.
When it comes to the leftist education I also weigh that against the eduction of the next last generation, and of the generation before that. If I am going to have my eyes opened that the current generation is being brainwashed by leftists to like socialism then, to be objective, I must also consider that the previous generation was brainwashed to hate socialism and communism. Not simply for its political philosophy but also for the purposes it served as propaganda against out enemies of the time. It is easier to garner support against the USSR during the cold war when you have more people believing that it is evil.
So while I consider the intelligence of my seniors who have lived through more, I also consider that they were raised with a certain mount of indoctrination as well. Because of this I try to look at socialism fairly and objectively based on its political philosophies and not based on how violent some were in the past because that would taint all systems. If I were to consider Stalin, Hitler, etc. as proof that socialism were bad, then I would be forced to consider that our own democratic federalist republic is bad as well for our own violent past.
I think younger people are often more optimistic which might explain them having a more favorable opinion of socialism. They haven't lived through the evils of any socialism and they haven't lived through any of the anti socialism indoctrination.
Post by: Jl808 on February 22, 2016, 07:12:00 AM
China probably has a more extreme form of cronyism because of the extreme power in the hands of its ruling party. The ruling party has absolute control and one has to have the approval / favor of the officials in charge in order to do any sort of economic activity there.
Of course, they hang some government officials from time to time because they got caught taking bribes. Examples below.
China Executes Corrupt Hangzhou and Suzhou Officials (2011)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-14197485
China's Crazy Executions Don't End Public Corruption (2013)
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/world-report/2013/07/10/chinas-crazy-executions-dont-end-public-corruption
China Overwhelmingly Supports Death Penalty for Corrupt Officials (2014)
http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/china-overwhelmingly-supports-death-penalty-for-corrupt-officials/
Why China Executes So Many People (2013)
http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/05/why-china-executes-so-many-people/275695/
I found the last article to raise more questions about the executions and whether it is actually working out for / backfiring on the regular Chinese person.
Post by: GZire on February 22, 2016, 09:50:34 AM
........The millennial demographics is different from the previous generation. Is this a just factor of youth? When we were young, were we not "rebellious" and felt that we knew more than our elders because we could set the clock on the VCR?.............
I think it's because those lazy azz mofos are used to getting things given to them and not having work for them all the while someone is telling them it's not their fault.
Post by: Jl808 on February 22, 2016, 10:50:17 AM
They may be seeing only the negatives and may not be aware of the positives because people tend to take the good things for granted. (I've met a lot of older people who lived through socialist countries who always say that gun control is always one of the first thing their despotic leaders do when taking power. They are often glad to be living in the US.)
I admit that this is a generalization, but I believe that some millennials are willing to work hard and do appreciate the value of working together but may just not be as willing to "put up and shut up" with poor leadership.
Older generations tended to work the same job for the same company for a longer time. The newer generations tend to have more jobs and move around more. Hence, a culture clash.
Post by: hvybarrels on February 22, 2016, 12:01:14 PM
We're going to have redistribution one way or another, it's just a question of how orderly the process will be.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 23, 2016, 05:19:42 AM
In their defense, what the next generation has now / has to deal with is the result of the actions / policies / practices of the previous generations.
They may be seeing only the negatives and may not be aware of the positives because people tend to take the good things for granted. (I've met a lot of older people who lived through socialist countries who always say that gun control is always one of the first thing their despotic leaders do when taking power. They are often glad to be living in the US.)
I admit that this is a generalization, but I believe that some millennials are willing to work hard and do appreciate the value of working together but may just not be as willing to "put up and shut up" with poor leadership.
Older generations tended to work the same job for the same company for a longer time. The newer generations tend to have more jobs and move around more. Hence, a culture clash.
You rightly point out that the culture may have changed but what about the working environment as well? How many people nowadays can get a job that will support a stay at home wife and two children? This used to be a standard a few generations ago but now it seems to be a bit rare. So while the younger generations do benefit from the hard work of their parents, they are also facing a different set of challenges than their parents and grand parents. It is more than just a single variable equation. I do think that being spoiled, or more appropriately "overindulged," causes problems in how people face reality in the world, but that is only one factor at play.
The free market is both a blessing and a curse in that sense. It will give us more for cheaper but will also send away our jobs and pay us less. So while a previous generation may have made it easier for this generation, in other ways life may be harder as well.
Post by: Jl808 on February 23, 2016, 02:32:50 PM
Aloha Robtmc,
You are absolutely correct.
However, even nations who practice capitalism, albeit crony capitalism, also are prone to restricting gun ownership. The Philippines under the US backed Marcos regime did not allow gun ownership to its citizens. Consequently, I will add to your point by saying any nation that has a big government, even a nation that practices capitalism, does not necessarily translate to citizens having the right to bear arms.
By-the-way, I am not a leftist, but a political and economic ideological pragmatist. :shaka:
Kuleana
I was gonna let this be but something triggered in my memory about Marcos.
Marcos became a dictator after he declared martial law. He went to the owners of the various industries and demanded that if they turn over majority ownership of their businesses to him, they could continue to operate unhindered and would have the support of the government. Those that refused to give what they had worked for, had him as an enemy and were ruined or driven out of the country.
The Philippines went through a dictatorship where all practical powers were seized in the hands of a few people. This is not a democracy anymore... this is basically despotism.
When unrestrained power is placed in the hands of a few people, then that is when you run into problems whether a capitalistic or socialistic society. A true democracy has the issue of being a rule by the mob. On the other hand, a very weak government that does not have enough powers could lead to its demise until a despot successfully takes power (think Tokugawa period).
While the US government is not perfect, the founding fathers knew enough about human nature to separate out the powers of the government into three branches that are supposed to check and balance each other. When the checks and balance no longer works, then it is where we find more corruption.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 24, 2016, 04:21:51 PM
While the US government is not perfect, the founding fathers knew enough about human nature to separate out the powers of the government into three branches that are supposed to check and balance each other. When the checks and balance no longer works, then it is where we find more corruption.
I find it quite amazing that it all worked out. There have been a few occasions where things could have easily degraded despite the best government planning. For example George Washington could have easily become a new leader and seized power but he stepped down and set the stage for people to follow.
Another example was with the supreme court. When the supreme court heard its first real case by an individual suing the secretary of state, people were not sure what would happen. The constitution obviously spelled out the supreme courts power but since they were sort of untested no one really knew if people would listen to them. If they had ruled against the secretary of state and he refused to obey the court order it could seta precedent that could topple the 3 tier system of our government.
The design of the government alone is not the only reason our government became so successful. The words on the paper mean nothing if we don't have the honest and upstanding leaders who follow those words then things still fall to pieces.
Post by: Jl808 on February 24, 2016, 05:34:30 PM
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
You're right.. unless the people are moral, no piece of paper will be enough... that's why there's the 2nd amendment.
Post by: GZire on February 25, 2016, 07:38:21 AM
You rightly point out that the culture may have changed but what about the working environment as well? How many people nowadays can get a job that will support a stay at home wife and two children? This used to be a standard a few generations ago but now it seems to be a bit rare. So while the younger generations do benefit from the hard work of their parents, they are also facing a different set of challenges than their parents and grand parents. It is more than just a single variable equation. I do think that being spoiled, or more appropriately "overindulged," causes problems in how people face reality in the world, but that is only one factor at play.
The free market is both a blessing and a curse in that sense. It will give us more for cheaper but will also send away our jobs and pay us less. So while a previous generation may have made it easier for this generation, in other ways life may be harder as well.
I think one only has to look at the disposable income to see that one generation worked harder than another to get where they are. Today's kids have so much more than I did growing up. If that money was being put aside for things that my parents thought were worthwhile compared to what a lot of today's parents think are worthwhile................
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 26, 2016, 09:34:11 AM
I think one only has to look at the disposable income to see that one generation worked harder than another to get where they are. Today's kids have so much more than I did growing up. If that money was being put aside for things that my parents thought were worthwhile compared to what a lot of today's parents think are worthwhile................
I think there is merit to what you are saying, but we should also consider that many items have gotten a lot cheaper so while they might have more disposable income the same level of income can also buy a lot more luxuries which might make one think they have more disposable income than they actually do.
Post by: GZire on February 26, 2016, 11:08:55 AM
I think there is merit to what you are saying, but we should also consider that many items have gotten a lot cheaper so while they might have more disposable income the same level of income can also buy a lot more luxuries which might make one think they have more disposable income than they actually do.
I think if you look at the CPI between now and when I was a kid it would not account for the throwing away of the disposable income.
Just look at this past New Years Eve. It was back to Baghdad this year. I saw thousands dumped on fireworks. Same goes for all the stuff the kids have now.........or maybe my parents just pinched their pennies harder than most, I dunno but what I see nowadays with the younger parents I find mind boggling.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 27, 2016, 09:19:41 AM
I think if you look at the CPI between now and when I was a kid it would not account for the throwing away of the disposable income.
Just look at this past New Years Eve. It was back to Baghdad this year. I saw thousands dumped on fireworks. Same goes for all the stuff the kids have now.........or maybe my parents just pinched their pennies harder than most, I dunno but what I see nowadays with the younger parents I find mind boggling.
I don't disagree, I see people spending lots on luxuries these days, even those you would expect to need to save. I have generally been thrifty though so I don't know if this means there is more disposable income or if I just observe people disposing of their income more.
It could also be that I have different values and priorities. Young and old alike spend way too much money on alcohol in my opinion but they probably think some of my hobbies are dumb as well so it is kind of relative in that manner.
I think I know what you mean in your first sentence, but what is CPI?
Post by: Jl808 on February 27, 2016, 09:32:49 AM
Wikipedia definition:
"A consumer price index (CPI) measures changes in the price level of a market basket of consumer goods and services purchased by households. The CPI is a statistical estimate constructed using the prices of a sample of representative items whose prices are collected periodically."
It's generally a good measure but I'm not sure if / how this measure can be manipulated to look better than it actually is.
http://www.bls.gov/cpi/
Post by: hvybarrels on February 29, 2016, 10:38:44 AM
And then you get slapped in the face by people talking about "bootstraps" as they throw around meaningless economic indicators.
http://moneymorning.com/2013/07/22/the-four-most-rigged-economic-indicators/
Post by: Jl808 on February 29, 2016, 11:12:58 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on February 29, 2016, 09:12:55 PM
When things used to be "Made in the USA", they were quality made. Now "Made in China", not so much.
China has really advanced into the modern world though. While they do still make loads of cheap crap, they also have Chinese companies that are making quite high quality items these days. Flashlights come to mind.
Some things are certainly made more poorly but advancements make some things much cheaper.
Take block for example, the advent of the polymer molding means that they can make a frame in seconds at a fraction of the cost of a metal frame without any loss in quality. A 1911 seems to run about a $1000, a Glock is $400 - $500.
Similarly, one of the the upsides with the electric cars is the low maintenance of their parts. The electric motors are low maintenance and easy to sway, there are not many mechanical linkages to go wrong, and many of the parts you normally need to change are absent (oil, air filter, transmission fluid, spark plugs, gaskets, etc) This is a bad thing if you are a parts supplier.
Post by: ren on February 29, 2016, 09:43:05 PM
China has really advanced into the modern world though. While they do still make loads of cheap crap, they also have Chinese companies that are making quite high quality items these days. Flashlights come to mind.
Some things are certainly made more poorly but advancements make some things much cheaper.
Take block for example, the advent of the polymer molding means that they can make a frame in seconds at a fraction of the cost of a metal frame without any loss in quality. A 1911 seems to run about a $1000, a Glock is $400 - $500.
Similarly, one of the the upsides with the electric cars is the low maintenance of their parts. The electric motors are low maintenance and easy to sway, there are not many mechanical linkages to go wrong, and many of the parts you normally need to change are absent (oil, air filter, transmission fluid, spark plugs, gaskets, etc) This is a bad thing if you are a parts supplier.
my 1911 would pummel the crap out of a Glock.
Like a pencil fight except my pencil is a steel pipe ;D
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 01, 2016, 05:39:15 AM
my 1911 would pummel the crap out of a Glock.
Like a pencil fight except my pencil is a steel pipe ;D
Your 1911 would pummel my savings account as well. All things being equal, I would take a glock over a 1911 but I will leave it at that so as to avoid a glock vs 1911 flame war.
Point being with all of this is that advancements have led to things being cheaper but still retaining quality, thereby leaving us with more free disposable income.
Post by: robtmc on March 01, 2016, 01:18:13 PM
Even in the 1990's cars could be fixed, but it seems like lately with the advent of plastic uni-body, sealed transmissions and over-complicated electronicsConsider that much of what you object to in modern cars (I do not disagree) is the direct result of government mandates for gas mileage, emission, and "safety". They do run reliably as long as they hold together.
Computers controlling every damn thing comes from maximum fuel economy designs (engine and transmission) and idiot proof brake and stability systems for idiots that do not know how to drive and must be coddled.
Plastics are used extensively to keep weight down and mileage up, and "protect" passengers from hard objects.
Some of this is progress, some just plain gubmint meddling. No one wants a return of the 1958 Detroit iron tanks that could not stop or turn and required every gas station to have a "service" bay for repairs that were needed so often.
Post by: Jl808 on March 07, 2016, 04:55:44 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/revealed-30-year-economic-betrayal-dragging-down-generation-y-income
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A Guardian investigation into the prospects of millennials – those born between 1980 and the mid-90s, and often otherwise known as Generation Y – has found they are increasingly being cut out of the wealth generated in western societies.
Where 30 years ago young adults used to earn more than national averages, now in many countries they have slumped to earning as much as 20% below their average compatriot. Pensioners by comparison have seen income soar.
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It is likely to be the first time in industrialised history, save for periods of war or natural disaster, that the incomes of young adults have fallen so far when compared with the rest of society.
Experts are warning that this unfair settlement will have grave implications for everything from social cohesion to family formation.
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“Current working-age, middle-class groups are increasingly concerned with their and their children’s job prospects. An increasing number of people think children in their country will be worse off financially than their parents,” he said.
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For the first time in France, recent pensioners generated more disposable income than families headed by a person under 50. In Italy the average under-35 became poorer than average pensioners under 80. Using the most recent US data, in the midst of the downturn in 2013, average under-30s had less income than those aged 65-79. This is the first time that has happened as far back as the data goes.
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Across Europe, the issue centres more around jobs – and the lack of them. The numbers of thirtysomethings still living with their parents is stubbornly high in countries such as Italy and Spain, with grave implications for birthrates and family formation in places whose demographics are already badly skewed towards elderly people.
“We’ve never had, since the dawn of capitalism really, this situation of a population that is ageing so much and in some countries also shrinking, and we just don’t know whether we can continue growing the economy in the same way we once have,” said Prof Diane Coyle, an economist and former UK Treasury adviser.
Anyway, as a friend of mine said... "Socialism - destroying economies for over a century."
Post by: Jl808 on March 07, 2016, 04:59:08 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/millennials-generation-y-guide-to-much-maligned-demographic
Post by: Jl808 on March 07, 2016, 07:54:28 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/generation-y-pay-price-baby-boomer-pensions
Quote
Millennials are picking up the tab for the western world’s most stunning accounting disaster to date. No one expected people to live as long as they are, and in such great numbers. Pensions that were promised in the past, and seemed ordinary at the time, are now onerously over-generous, and that is hurting young adults today.
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Pensioner demands are not just beating down the financial prospects of new employees. Retirees are also winning more from governments than they did a generation ago. Our figures show double-digit, real-terms growth in social transfers – what governments give out – over 30 years to pensioners aged 65-79, ranging from as low as 26% in Germany to 146% in the UK.
And once again, young people are the ones paying the price. Laurence Kotlikoff (baby boomer), a professor of economics at Boston University, is astounded at what has happened, especially in America. “The US is out to bankrupt its children.”
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However, this has all been turned on its head by globalisation. In the past 30 years, liberalisation has allowed companies to outsource aggressively. Everything from telephone helplines to legal services to computer programmers are now being provided by outsourcing companies in countries such as India or China.
“That global workforce is easier to tap than ever,” said Pomeroy. “That means it’s not so good for your ‘in-demand’ 25-year-old.” The result: a slump in real wages over the past three decades for 25 to 29 year olds in several countries.
Once again it is only Generation Y suffering this fate. Using figures from 2010, most five-year cohorts from 40 to 65 posted positive pay growth compared with people of the same age 30 years earlier. In the US, Spain and Italy, the older you are in the workplace, the higher those wage increases have been.
Quote
Pomeroy added: “If you have a load of people who are 20, 25 and they are becoming your core consumer over the next 15 to 20 years and they are less well off than the current crop of people in that age group, then that’s not great for growth … you’re in big trouble.”
“We just don’t know whether we can continue growing the economy in the same way we once have.”
Post by: passivekinetic on March 13, 2016, 08:27:02 AM
Not many of them will be thinking along the lines of libertarian principles.
Capitalism also has gotten literally bad press, with all the crony capitalism and high profile corruption going on for the past 20 years.