2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Dregs on October 31, 2011, 09:11:49 AM
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http://www.wyff4.com/r/29638219/detail.html (http://www.wyff4.com/r/29638219/detail.html)
~Wright said, "It's too bad someone with a concealed weapons permit didn't walk by. That would fix it." He said people are tired of doing the right thing and criminals getting away with their actions.
He said several times, "I want you to get a concealed weapons permit."
Wright said, "I'm tired of looking at victims saying, 'There's life after this' … I'm tired of saying, 'We're sorry, we can't keep them in jail.'"~
~Wright said the attack is not the fault of Millken Park. He said, "It's a nice place for families."
He said officers patrol the area all the time and respond to various calls there. He said, "Don't blame anyone for having an animal on their property … We can't get it all."~
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Why doesn't that guy come out here and run against Kealoha? He could enjoy some sun, some surf, and hand out CCW permits like candy. Trick or treat, Sherriff!
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Why doesn't that guy come out here and run against Kealoha? He could enjoy some sun, some surf, and hand out CCW permits like candy. Trick or treat, Sherriff!
Because Chief Kealoha wasn't elected, he was SELECTED by the Mayor. One left-wing loon choosing another left-wing loon to run the police department. That's a big problem with our carry permit system, Chief Kealoha doesn't have to answer to The People for denying our rights.
- Alex
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Why doesn't that guy come out here and run against Kealoha? He could enjoy some sun, some surf, and hand out CCW permits like candy. Trick or treat, Sherriff!
Because Chief Kealoha wasn't ELECTED, he is selected by the Mayor. One left-wing loon choosing another left-wing loon to run the police department. That's a big problem with our carry permit system, Chief Kealoha doesn't have to answer to The People for denying our rights.
- Alex
Well, I guess that explains that. :-[
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In the interest of fairness, the Chief of Police is selected by the Honolulu Police Commission, who is a group of 7 people appointed by the Mayor. Clearly, short of hiring a criminal, the HPC is in they Mayor's pocket and will select whoever he wants in that seat... Which might explain why the most junior person vying for the position was selected.
- Alex
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From what I keep hearing, the Chief's personal opinion isn't really against the 2nd amendment, nor particularly against firearms in general. Just part of the bloated bureaucracy that is against the 2nd amendment and also against firearms in general..
Would love to have that Sheriff here though, hehe.
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From what I keep hearing, the Chief's personal opinion isn't really against the 2nd amendment, nor particularly against firearms in general. Just part of the bloated bureaucracy that is against the 2nd amendment and also against firearms in general..
Would love to have that Sheriff here though, hehe.
God forbid politicians and bureaucrats start doing things in accordance with the general principle of what's right, instead of what's going to get them that next promotion. Honestly, if Chief's not anti-2A, that's more of a black mark on him than if he just honestly (and mistakenly) bought into the bs about collective rights and thought concealed carry was a real menace to society. He is called out by law as the guy who exercises sole control over the permitting process, so if he thinks that denying all applicants is wrong, and does so anyway, it's on him and him alone.
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It's all about "feel good" legislation because reality doesn't exist in Utopia. "Political Correctness" coming to fruition.
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From what I keep hearing, the Chief's personal opinion isn't really against the 2nd amendment, nor particularly against firearms in general. Just part of the bloated bureaucracy that is against the 2nd amendment and also against firearms in general..
Would love to have that Sheriff here though, hehe.
If that's actually true, it's downright pathetic. Sack up and do what's RIGHT. Not to mention the fact that he'll be saving Hawaii alot of money in court!
- Alex
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From what I keep hearing, the Chief's personal opinion isn't really against the 2nd amendment, nor particularly against firearms in general. Just part of the bloated bureaucracy that is against the 2nd amendment and also against firearms in general..
Would love to have that Sheriff here though, hehe.
If that's actually true, it's downright pathetic. Sack up and do what's RIGHT. Not to mention the fact that he'll be saving Hawaii alot of money in court!
- Alex
Amen, brother!
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From what I keep hearing, the Chief's personal opinion isn't really against the 2nd amendment, nor particularly against firearms in general. Just part of the bloated bureaucracy that is against the 2nd amendment and also against firearms in general..
The force is strong with this one.
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I just think it's strange that he wouldn't approve the permits if he believes in it. It's not like people wouldn't support him if Mayor Carlisle tried to fire him after he started approving carry permits. The constitution is a pretty powerful podium for him to stand on to justify his actions.
- Alex
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I just think it's strange that he wouldn't approve the permits if he believes in it. It's not like people wouldn't support him if Mayor Carlisle tried to fire him after he started approving carry permits. The constitution is a pretty powerful podium for him to stand on to justify his actions.
- Alex
That's just not how you get ahead in Hawaii, Alex. :)
Trying to find someone that goes against the grain like that? Pretty much impossible. I think HPD is trying to set a record for how long they can go without issuing a carry permit :P
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My personal opinion, but I think no matter who is selected, even if they believe in CCW would never buck a system they are part of. Without some major legal action I don't see the CCW policy changing anytime soon.
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My personal opinion, but I think no matter who is selected, even if they believe in CCW would never buck a system they are part of. Without some major legal action I don't see the CCW policy changing anytime soon.
I do hear what you're saying, but I think it's different for the Chief of Police. With HPD, he's not part of the system, he is the system. If he's pro-2a, the department will be pro-2a. That might end up with the police commissioners replacing him, but honestly, who cares? He's at the apex of his career right now with HPD, the only way to go higher is either to seek elected office here in Hawaii, or pursue a C.O.P. job elsewhere with a bigger, more prestigious department, and there are a number of cities in the US that would look favorably on a guy who was willing to risk his job to do what's right for his citizens.
Bottom line is, HPD as an organization is just like a ship or infantry unit; they all reflect the personality and disposition of their commanding officer.
Edit to add that it's not like we're expecting him to engage in civil disobedience or anything; in this case, "bucking the system" means acting within the lawful bounds of his office in a manner that may be unpopular.
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I apologize if in the wrong thread, but is there a requirement for either training or certification, or classes that a person would have to successfully complete prior to getting a concealed carry permit in the other states where concealed carry permits are more readily issuesd ? Again I apologize for my ignorance, perhaps this topic is covered in another thread?
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I apologize if in the wrong thread, but is there a requirement for either training or certification, or classes that a person would have to successfully complete prior to getting a concealed carry permit in the other states where concealed carry permits are more readily issuesd ? Again I apologize for my ignorance, perhaps this topic is covered in another thread?
Bottom line is it depends on the state.
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I apologize if in the wrong thread, but is there a requirement for either training or certification, or classes that a person would have to successfully complete prior to getting a concealed carry permit in the other states where concealed carry permits are more readily issuesd ? Again I apologize for my ignorance, perhaps this topic is covered in another thread?
Depends on the state. Some places do have required training, others simply require that you demonstrate to the Sheriff or Chief that you are competent to handle firearms. Some places have no required training at all, I believe. USACarry.com (http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_information.html) has a pretty good list of what the laws are for each state, if you're curious.
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My personal opinion, but I think no matter who is selected, even if they believe in CCW would never buck a system they are part of. Without some major legal action I don't see the CCW policy changing anytime soon.
I do hear what you're saying, but I think it's different for the Chief of Police. With HPD, he's not part of the system, he is the system. If he's pro-2a, the department will be pro-2a. That might end up with the police commissioners replacing him, but honestly, who cares? He's at the apex of his career right now with HPD, the only way to go higher is either to seek elected office here in Hawaii, or pursue a C.O.P. job elsewhere with a bigger, more prestigious department, and there are a number of cities in the US that would look favorably on a guy who was willing to risk his job to do what's right for his citizens.
Bottom line is, HPD as an organization is just like a ship or infantry unit; they all reflect the personality and disposition of their commanding officer.
Edit to add that it's not like we're expecting him to engage in civil disobedience or anything; in this case, "bucking the system" means acting within the lawful bounds of his office in a manner that may be unpopular.
I can't really see a C.O.P., after years/decades of grooming himself or being groomed to run for his position, risking everything to feel morally superior. I mean, I can hope, but I don't see that as realistic.
Also, I don't see HPD's C.O.P. as being the system, but part of the system. He's only the head of the law-enforcement branch. He may set policy within his department, but his position has degraded into a political one who must obey Hawaii's "Washington".
So, for whatever his excuse, whether political/career pressure or personal dislike of private citizens being able to protect themselves out of the home, I don't like the fact that he does not issue CCW; but at the same time it may not be entirely his fault.
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My personal opinion, but I think no matter who is selected, even if they believe in CCW would never buck a system they are part of.
Are you talking about just in Hawaii or in general? Because this very thing has been happening all over California.
My personal opinion, but I think no matter who is selected, even if they believe in CCW would never buck a system they are part of. Without some major legal action I don't see the CCW policy changing anytime soon.
I do hear what you're saying, but I think it's different for the Chief of Police. With HPD, he's not part of the system, he is the system. If he's pro-2a, the department will be pro-2a. That might end up with the police commissioners replacing him, but honestly, who cares? He's at the apex of his career right now with HPD, the only way to go higher is either to seek elected office here in Hawaii, or pursue a C.O.P. job elsewhere with a bigger, more prestigious department, and there are a number of cities in the US that would look favorably on a guy who was willing to risk his job to do what's right for his citizens.
Bottom line is, HPD as an organization is just like a ship or infantry unit; they all reflect the personality and disposition of their commanding officer.
Edit to add that it's not like we're expecting him to engage in civil disobedience or anything; in this case, "bucking the system" means acting within the lawful bounds of his office in a manner that may be unpopular.
I can't really see a C.O.P., after years/decades of grooming himself or being groomed to run for his position, risking everything to feel morally superior. I mean, I can hope, but I don't see that as realistic.
Also, I don't see HPD's C.O.P. as being the system, but part of the system. He's only the head of the law-enforcement branch. He may set policy within his department, but his position has degraded into a political one who must obey Hawaii's "Washington".
So, for whatever his excuse, whether political/career pressure or personal dislike of private citizens being able to protect themselves out of the home, I don't like the fact that he does not issue CCW; but at the same time it may not be entirely his fault.
I disagree. Assuming that he does believe in 2a rights, then it IS entirely his fault. He is in the position where both the law and constitution back his position. Again, look at the sheriffs in CA who started approving CCW permits, from what I have read, they aren't being pushed out at election time...because the people respect them for doing what is right.
Could he be fired? Sure, in fact he probably would be. But personally I would rather be able to look at myself in the mirror and stand up tall knowing that I executed my duties to the best of my ability and belief, regardless of the political climate and BS. I still find it astonishing that any police officer actually gives 2 shits about what politicians think about them...but that's the sad world that we live in.
- Alex