2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: suka on March 18, 2016, 11:53:16 PM
-
My Franklin Armory Binary Trigger just shipped, waited almost half a year for it.
1x Binary Firing System Trigger Pack
Thank you for ordering from Franklin Armory!
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0289/8757/products/BFS_Left_UP_c962698d-dfe3-413c-b830-8512155af12f_1024x1024.png?v=1450272453)
-
https://youtu.be/3TAhsoTJ6ps (https://youtu.be/3TAhsoTJ6ps)
-
https://youtu.be/Vu9-U9nVB9Q (https://youtu.be/Vu9-U9nVB9Q)
-
Double taps made easy!
-
your Right ;)
-
HPD is really hating all these new simulated rapid firing products.
-
HPD is really hating all these new simulated rapid firing products.
HPD hate. . . suka like ;D
-
How does this work? 1 trigger pull gets 1 round and the release gets a 2nd?
If so, I don't want to be the test case since it could be considered automatic...
-
Single action of the trigger as ruled by the ATF.
one action is pull another action is release. thats 2 actions.
automatic fire is one pull to maintain a continuos operation (one action) while releasing the trigger (2nd action) stops the firing operation.
(make sense)?
-
Why did you show me this, now I have 400 dollars more debt. AND a ridiculous waiting time.
*edit
Now i found the even more expensive fostech version...
-
Single action of the trigger as ruled by the ATF.
one action is pull another action is release. thats 2 actions.
automatic fire is one pull to maintain a continuos operation (one action) while releasing the trigger (2nd action) stops the firing operation.
(make sense)?
Two problems with that. What happens if you fire 1 round but then don't want to fire the 2nd round? Seems dangerous to be committed to the 2nd round when the situation might change.
The other is in the wording of the Hawaii law A single function of the trigger might be read to mean a complete cycling of the trigger both pull and release which would then classify the firearm as a automatic firearm regardless of what the ATF says. I wouldn't want to be the test case for that.
""Automatic firearm" means any firearm that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily modified to shoot automatically more than one shot, without a manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. "
-
I was wondering the same thing as eef. What about only firing 1 shot?
-
Two problems with that. What happens if you fire 1 round but then don't want to fire the 2nd round? Seems dangerous to be committed to the 2nd round when the situation might change.
The other is in the wording of the Hawaii law A single function of the trigger might be read to mean a complete cycling of the trigger both pull and release which would then classify the firearm as a automatic firearm regardless of what the ATF says. I wouldn't want to be the test case for that.
""Automatic firearm" means any firearm that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily modified to shoot automatically more than one shot, without a manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. "
I would say 1 function of the trigger is the pull and another one is a release. So i think it should be fine to own.
-
What happens if you fire 1 round but then don't want to fire the 2nd round? Seems dangerous to be committed to the 2nd round when the situation might change.
The safety selector would have "safe", single shot mode and binary mode. According to the website, if you fire a round in binary mode you can negate the second shot by switching the selector back to single shot before releasing the trigger. I would still release the trigger with much caution.
-
Negate the Second Round
https://youtu.be/TNKpVaKsUic (https://youtu.be/TNKpVaKsUic)
https://youtu.be/TNKpVaKsUic
-
The other is in the wording of the Hawaii law A single function of the trigger might be read to mean a complete cycling of the trigger both pull and release which would then classify the firearm as a automatic firearm regardless of what the ATF says. I wouldn't want to be the test case for that.
A single function is PULL, a second function is RELEASE.. Thats TWO functions for 2 rounds.
-
A single function is PULL, a second function is RELEASE.. Thats TWO functions for 2 rounds.
why does hpd care what trigger you have in your AR?
-
Ordered one. Who knows when I will get it.
-
A single function is PULL, a second function is RELEASE.. Thats TWO functions for 2 rounds.
I wouldn't chance it.
To me a single function is the complete cycle, so trigger pull and trigger release. The trigger is spring loaded so it is going to return automatically, you aren't forcing it to return.
Realistically it probably will never come up, but I won't chance it for a product I don't think that great anyway. Take the risk if you want but I think people should be aware this is in a gray area.
-
I wouldn't chance it.
To me a single function is the complete cycle, so trigger pull and trigger release. The trigger is spring loaded so it is going to return automatically, you aren't forcing it to return.
Realistically it probably will never come up, but I won't chance it for a product I don't think that great anyway. Take the risk if you want but I think people should be aware this is in a gray area.
dude, it's not a gray area
the ATF defines each action to be a single act
there's a definition letter for both products
-
I wouldn't chance it.
To me a single function is the complete cycle, so trigger pull and trigger release. The trigger is spring loaded so it is going to return automatically, you aren't forcing it to return.
Realistically it probably will never come up, but I won't chance it for a product I don't think that great anyway. Take the risk if you want but I think people should be aware this is in a gray area.
Fortunately you are not the ATF or authority on this matter
-
I wouldn't chance it.
To me a single function is the complete cycle, so trigger pull and trigger release. The trigger is spring loaded so it is going to return automatically, you aren't forcing it to return.
Realistically it probably will never come up, but I won't chance it for a product I don't think that great anyway. Take the risk if you want but I think people should be aware this is in a gray area.
Once the ATF approves and has a letter of approval its basically set in stone. This binary trigger is 100% legal. Unless a state or the fed bans it specifically.
-
Once the ATF approves and has a letter of approval its basically set in stone. This binary trigger is 100% legal. Unless a state or the fed bans it specifically.
Couldn't agree more. If the state bans it then I will just ship it out of here with the rest of the stuff I can't have in this liberal paradise.
-
Ok, who's brave enough to try one of these puppies with a slide fire stock?
-
Ok, who's brave enough to try one of these puppies with a slide fire stock?
You are already maxing out the fire of the gun with one of these. A bump fire wont really do much.
-
Fortunately you are not the ATF or authority on this matter
I quoted Hawaii law, not federal law. I specifically said that there could be an issue with Hawaii law so quoting the ATF doesn't solve the issue I raise.
-
:-\ The trigger has a serial number. . . why? ???
-
:-\ The trigger has a serial number. . . why? ???
Geiselles have them too - for QC.
-
I quoted Hawaii law, not federal law. I specifically said that there could be an issue with Hawaii law so quoting the ATF doesn't solve the issue I raise.
i believe the federal law says the exact same thing as hawaii law...
-
I quoted Hawaii law, not federal law. I specifically said that there could be an issue with Hawaii law so quoting the ATF doesn't solve the issue I raise.
what HRS is this?
-
Both Laws are written exactly the same
26 USC 5845(b)
Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
HRS 134-1
Automatic firearm
"Automatic firearms" means any firearm that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily modified to shoot automatically more than one shot, without a manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
-
Both Laws are written exactly the same
26 USC 5845(b)
Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
HRS 134-1
Automatic firearm
"Automatic firearms" means any firearm that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily modified to shoot automatically more than one shot, without a manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
#mikedrop
-
I quoted Hawaii law, not federal law. I specifically said that there could be an issue with Hawaii law so quoting the ATF doesn't solve the issue I raise.
Both Laws are written exactly the same
26 USC 5845(b)
Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
HRS 134-1
Automatic firearm
"Automatic firearms" means any firearm that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily modified to shoot automatically more than one shot, without a manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gVvn-TX4RCw/UhgT7CQSMuI/AAAAAAAAY5E/BqcDq4ziN_Y/s640/Ice+Cube+Boyz.png)
-
And with that I have my Fostech trigger ordered.
-
Both Laws are written exactly the same
26 USC 5845(b)
Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
HRS 134-1
Automatic firearm
"Automatic firearms" means any firearm that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily modified to shoot automatically more than one shot, without a manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
Ok, fair enough.
But my follow up question is this: Do you trust local prosecutors to interpret the law in line with the way the feds do?
Our 2nd amendment in Hawaii is worded the same as the US constitution with one small word difference yet federal gun rights and Hawaii gun rights are very different.
Like I said, I don't think it will ever come up, but just want to throw that out there for consideration.
-
Ok, fair enough.
But my follow up question is this: Do you trust local prosecutors to interpret the law in line with the way the feds do?
Our 2nd amendment in Hawaii is worded the same as the US constitution with one small word difference yet federal gun rights and Hawaii gun rights are very different.
Like I said, I don't think it will ever come up, but just want to throw that out there for consideration.
Federal ruling > Hawaii ruling. If the fed makes a rule and the state makes a rule against that rule. The federal rule wins out always without question.
-
Ok, fair enough.
don't you mean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbMKjLe-RFA
?
-
Federal ruling > Hawaii ruling. If the fed makes a rule and the state makes a rule against that rule. The federal rule wins out always without question.
Not quite how that works. If that logic held then no state could make more strict gun laws than federal gun laws. Example, silencers are legal to purchase with a federal tax stamp, but Hawaii says no.
-
Double post
-
Silencers are legal but are regulated by federal law and on a state-by-state basis. (National Firearms Act” (NFA)) Because of this states are free to do as they please. Our state chooses to ban it. Like comon a quick google would prevent all your false statements.
-
Not quite how that works. If that logic held then no state could make more strict gun laws than federal gun laws. Example, silencers are legal to purchase with a federal tax stamp, but Hawaii says no.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/7zMHnj3lGBACA/200w.gif)
-
Silencers are legal but are regulated by federal law and on a state-by-state basis. (National Firearms Act” (NFA)) Because of this states are free to do as they please. Our state chooses to ban it. Like comon a quick google would prevent all your false statements.
You didn't say anything contrary to what I said. Hawaii makes gun laws in addition to federal gun laws. Just because you see the same wording does not mean you see the same application. Welcome to liberal courts. Maybe you need to use google.
-
You didn't say anything contrary to what I said. Hawaii makes gun laws in addition to federal gun laws. Just because you see the same wording does not mean you see the same application. Welcome to liberal courts. Maybe you need to use google.
I give up you can live in your fantasy land logic.
-
I give up you can live in your fantasy land logic.
Whatever dude, I voiced my concerns for anyone reading this and considering this product. Debating you on this issue is no longer worth my time.
If you don't understand that state interpretation can differ from federal interpretation then just keep scratching your head.
-
Whatever dude, I voiced my concerns for anyone reading this and considering this product. Debating you on this issue is no longer worth my time.
If you don't understand that state interpretation can differ from federal interpretation then just keep scratching your head.
Why don't you ask the State AG. I did and they returned my message.
Clearly non of us are attorneys or the like.
You're pounding sand by arguing with what we already know of the law.
-
Why don't you ask the State AG. I did and they returned my message.
#mikedropredux
-
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5212/5385892977_e9b116a75f_b.jpg)
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/bboy-pose-3950660.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/04/article-2287824-186D8EC4000005DC-606_634x448.jpg)
-
Why don't you ask the State AG. I did and they returned my message.
Clearly non of us are attorneys or the like.
You're pounding sand by arguing with what we already know of the law.
I am not arguing that they are illegal here. If you got the go ahead from the state AG then happy days.
-
I am not arguing that they are illegal here. If you got the go ahead from the state AG then happy days.
I asked them about another gun related issue. You should exercise your tax dollars and not your e-checkbook by emailing or calling them.
-
Mr. Suka
As I stated earlier to your email inquiry that the Attorney General is unable to provide legal advice to the general public pursuant to Chapter 28 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes. I'm not able to interpret statutes or provide a legal opinion for your issue. If you need further assistance with your specific situation, an option would be to seek the aid of an attorney who is familiar with Hawaii's firearms laws.
Laura K. Maeshiro
Deputy Attorney General
Criminal Justice Division
Phone: (808) 586-1172
Fax: (808) 586-1375 [/b]
-
$400!? Wow!
Not interested, but I've also spent way more on things just because they were neat. :rofl:
However, that was when I was a consultant and made a lot more $$$. . . :(
-
not the best picture
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/suka5168/Mobile%20Uploads/2E1DD464-B478-4E7A-A7A6-6CC548D4D5AD_zpsltxjep0r.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/suka5168/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2E1DD464-B478-4E7A-A7A6-6CC548D4D5AD_zpsltxjep0r.jpg.html)
-
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/suka5168/Mobile%20Uploads/45A8CE12-0E20-4F2D-A237-5D0721347985_zpsmxtbne9o.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/suka5168/media/Mobile%20Uploads/45A8CE12-0E20-4F2D-A237-5D0721347985_zpsmxtbne9o.jpg.html)
-
Waiting on mine to come in. Wife ordered me one for Father's day. :thumbsup:
-
waiting to shoot mine at the open shoot.
-
Do you have to wait for an open shoot? If it is legal then it is legal. I am going to take mine to Kokohead and mag dump a Pmag 60.
I am kidding guys. However I will be going to Schofield with it and test the waters.
-
yeap waiting for next open shoot
-
Got a shipping notification. Should have it Sat and could shoot it Sunday.
-
great
-
how much did you guys pay?
thought about the fostech but it has a 6 month lead time right now.
-
Paid the full price. I am Mil and there are no discounts on the drop in trigger ever. On their site it said 6-8 weeks. It shipped within 5 days.
-
USPS fail again. won't get it until Monday.
-
Received it. Interesting item for sure.
-
:shaka:
-
Already got my lower to take up the 3rd position..
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/suka5168/IMG_1770_zpskiutmrpe.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/suka5168/media/IMG_1770_zpskiutmrpe.jpg.html)
-
Female cadet holding the T-91 Assault Rifle.
(http://i.imgur.com/clMTMpu.jpg)
-
Already got my lower to take up the 3rd position..
Going to get mine engraved in the same font and then color my binary position red.
-
Installed and tested now at Schofield.
The Semi setting I was have a trigger reset problem which I will email FA about.
However on the binary setting. Worked like a charm. 20 rounds goes very quick. Lol
Basically full auto if not a little faster. 2 round bursts are awesome because it is so fast.
-
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/9d/db/20/9ddb20d9f0e492ff579f4933257bdf78.jpg)
-
Suka, who did the coating and engraving on that 80% lower?
Thanks vvv
-
wasn't local in hawaii and they both (anodizing and engraving) weren't in the firearm business .
-
why does hpd care what trigger you have in your AR?
They wouldn't have an effffen clue. Unless your some huge dumb8ss who tells them all about it.
-
or they start scrolling, searching through 2aHawaii...
-
Haven’t really looked into this much.. but are these legal in HI?
Seems interesting.
-
Haven’t really looked into this much.. but are these legal in HI?
Seems interesting.
[§134-8.5] Bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank; prohibition. (a) Any person in this State
who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for
sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank shall be
guilty of a class C felony.
"Multiburst trigger activator" means:
(1) A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm
with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger;
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0008_0005.htm
"A binary trigger setting fires two rounds with each pull of the trigger – once when you pull the trigger and once when you release the trigger."
https://www.wideners.com/blog/what-is-a-binary-trigger/
-
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0008_0005.htm
"A binary trigger setting fires two rounds with each pull of the trigger – once when you pull the trigger and once when you release the trigger."
https://www.wideners.com/blog/what-is-a-binary-trigger/
Shucks. I guess I missed that boat.