2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: MuffinMan on April 21, 2016, 05:47:18 PM

Title: Hawaii Guns
Post by: MuffinMan on April 21, 2016, 05:47:18 PM
Matt Levi is doing a special on KGMB (Hawaii News Now) at 6:30 about guns in Hawaii.  Don't know if it's anti gun or what.

It's on at 6:30 tonight on channel 7 and replays on Saturday & Sunday envening
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: macsak on April 21, 2016, 05:51:18 PM
Matt Levi is doing a special on KGMB (Hawaii News Now) at 6:30 about guns in Hawaii.  Don't know if it's anti gun or what.

It's on at 6:30 tonight on channel 7 and replays on Saturday & Sunday envening

word has it that several 2a supporters were interviewed, so hopefully it is "fair and balanced"
i'll be watching
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Hawaii On Target on April 21, 2016, 06:52:42 PM
Seems skewed to be "anti" gun so far.  :-(
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: HiCarry on April 21, 2016, 08:01:06 PM
Seems skewed to be "anti" gun so far.  :-(
Definitely anti...the pro side was thrown in as a thin veneer toward an anti bias. 

They used a very anti "source" of information when talking about defensive gun uses (DGUs): The Gun Violence Archives ( http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/01/foghorn/gun-violence-archive-flawed-start/ )
Made the false claim mass shootings are up based on a now debunked FBI study ( http://reason.com/blog/2015/12/03/choose-your-own-mass-shooting-statistics )
Provided the usual "assault weapon"  and the "guns in the home more likely to be used to injure family than thwart violent crime" BS
Suggested that if you keep a gun in your house it will just get stolen and fall into criminal hands or that most folks are ill-trained to utilize a firearm, especially for a self-defense encounter.
Major Robinson suggested that a gun at home would be useless, if it were being properly/legally stored,because it would have to be removed from the locked, hard-sided case and loaded, in which time the bad guy would inevitably assaulted you...and probably steal your gun for good measure. He basically said guns are more of a problem than helpful in violent encounters and suggests getting a "big dog" instead.

There was more, but definitely anti....
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: whynow? on April 21, 2016, 08:53:33 PM
"Get yourself a dog. a big dog" reminds me of get yourself a double barrel shotgun.   Since the officer was wearing his HPD uniform, I wonder if get a dog is the C&C policy for personal safety.  To me this was a anti gun show meant to belittle the usefulness of firearms in the hands of citizens.
Can all apartment renters keep a big dog? 
 This type of show especially during the legislature only does one thing and that needs into the anti gun hysteria.   I own a AR type rifle for self defense and not  shamed to say that.  The U.S. DHS calls AR rifles Personal Defense Weapons.  Can't get any plainer than that. 
Since they all agreed that firearms deaths are low, why didn't they investigate swimming pool safety.  Probably would have said don't own a pool, go to the beach instead.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: HiCarry on April 21, 2016, 09:12:08 PM

...I own a AR type rifle for self defense and not  shamed to say that.  The U.S. DHS calls AR rifles Personal Defense Weapons.  Can't get any plainer than that.
Since they all agreed that firearms deaths are low, why didn't they investigate swimming pool safety.

Why? For the same reasons that when criminals and lawful gun owners use them, they're "assault weapons" but when police have them they're "patrol rifles."
Dishonesty. A need to control the narrative to push anti-gun agendas.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 21, 2016, 09:29:43 PM
I thought the show was fine.
While the dog suggestion was not or everyone, neither is a firearm.
The reminder that Hawaii has a very low rate of firearm incidents is a good argument to stop making more oppressive gun laws.
I actually like the dog suggestion.
Harvey effectively parried that assault rifle terminology, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: stangzilla on April 21, 2016, 10:03:16 PM
Mr. Robinson thought it is nearly impossible to get a gun ready for HD in time to use effectively.  he is wrong.  mine is ready in a couple seconds.
by his same logic, it is much much slower to call 911.
not a smart argument on his part.

having a dog for security is a good idea.
having a dog and gun......even better.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: HiCarry on April 21, 2016, 10:14:12 PM
I thought the show was fine.
While the dog suggestion was not or everyone, neither is a firearm.
The reminder that Hawaii has a very low rate of firearm incidents is a good argument to stop making more oppressive gun laws.
I actually like the dog suggestion.
Harvey effectively parried that assault rifle terminology, if I recall correctly.
But the dog suggestion was predicated on his implication that we mere citizens were not capable of using a firearm successfully, or safely. Especially with regards to self-defense.

And while our low rate of firearms incidents may be a good argument for not making more laws, the other side will see it just the opposite and advocate for ever more restrictive laws. Because, according to their logic, if all those laws were the reason we have so few firearms incidents, then more would obviously decrease that rate even further.

Assault rifle = select fire military rifle
Assault weapon = made up term

I think "our" side did a pretty good job, especially since it was obvious it was meant to be a hit piece, although a "soft around the edges" one.....
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 21, 2016, 10:26:15 PM
Mr. Robinson thought it is nearly impossible to get a gun ready for HD in time to use effectively.  he is wrong.  mine is ready in a couple seconds.
by his same logic, it is much much slower to call 911.
not a smart argument on his part.

having a dog for security is a good idea.
having a dog and gun......even better.
...
Of course the major is going to tow the company line by making it seem impossible to quickly retrieve and use a firearm effectively.
But we know better.
Generally, I believe the message of the program was not that guns are bad, but more like a warning to newbies that guns for sd are not a quick and easy solution.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: RSN172 on April 21, 2016, 10:42:25 PM
The big dog suggestion was good for those that CAN have a dog.  Many landlords don't allow dogs, especially big ones.  I have 4 Rottweilers.  Three sleep in my bedroom and one in my daughter's room. I also have a Glock with extra magazine, an AR15 and a high power flashlight that sleep in my room.  I would not care about bullets going through walls since it would be impossible to hit a neighbor's house even if I tried due to the distance and trees and my daughter's bedroom is upstairs and mine downstairs.  Since shooting someone WILL change your life for the worse, my first choice would be to have the dogs tear up the home intruder instead of shooting.

Overall I did not think that program benefitted gun owners.  The fact that they said Hawaii has the lowest gun violence and the strictest gun laws makes it seem that if they made the laws stricter gun violence would go down even more.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: hvybarrels on April 21, 2016, 10:56:38 PM
The dogs are there to slow them down. The gun is there to protect the dogs.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 21, 2016, 11:20:56 PM
The dogs are there to slow them down. The gun is there to protect the dogs.

Cops like dogs.  When police go in your house, they shoot your dogs first.  Easier than dealing with humans who can shoot back. 
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: MMM on April 21, 2016, 11:41:28 PM
maybe the next matt levi segment should be with pro and anti's at the same table so there can be rebuttal. you can say anything you want if it's your one sided opinion and no one to say anything against it. that is what i saw.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: 556fun on April 22, 2016, 12:02:04 AM
The statistics said it all!
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Shaba on April 22, 2016, 01:24:54 AM
Criminals should take a defense course on shooting big dogs...  LOL
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Heavies on April 22, 2016, 01:32:41 AM
I didn't get to see this program yet, however, any which way you look at it, GUN OWNERS need to start being more PROACTIVE, if you wish to keep you rights. 

Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: stangzilla on April 22, 2016, 08:51:18 AM
Mr. Robinson said an AR is too powerful for a city like Honolulu, to much collateral damage
and guns can be taken away from you and be used against you
ok, then HPD should get rid of their firearms for the same reasons.  that's his own argument.  unless he's a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: London808 on April 22, 2016, 10:17:24 AM


Hawaii is seeing record numbers of guns being sold and they are scared they no longer have control, This is the ground work for bans similar to CA, Im predicting they will go for a 10 round magazine limit on all guns in the next year,
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Rocky on April 22, 2016, 02:43:54 PM
Major Robinson suggested that a gun at home would be useless, if it were being properly/legally stored,because it would have to be removed from the locked, hard-sided case and loaded, in which time the bad guy would inevitably assaulted you...and probably steal your gun for good measure.

Major Robinson ASSUMES that we are not wearing our side arm while we are at home.

He basically said guns are more of a problem than helpful in violent encounters and suggests getting a "big dog" instead.     :wacko:

http://bearingarms.com/teenage-burglars-kill-family-dog-homeowner-shoots-them/   

   
 

I think "our" side did a pretty good job, especially since it was obvious it was meant to be a hit piece, although a "soft around the edges" one.....
[/quote]

Kudos to Clifford, Harvey and Tanji.
Job well done (even with editing)  :thumbsup:

Mahalo    :shaka:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: whynow? on April 22, 2016, 06:21:02 PM
But the dog suggestion was predicated on his implication that we mere citizens were not capable of using a firearm successfully, or safely. Especially with regards to self-defense.

And while our low rate of firearms incidents may be a good argument for not making more laws, the other side will see it just the opposite and advocate for ever more restrictive laws. Because, according to their logic, if all those laws were the reason we have so few firearms incidents, then more would obviously decrease that rate even further.

The way the officer told people to get a dog was like that's all you need to keep you safe.  Sure dogs are good as a deterrent and to possibly attack the bad guy, but they are not the total answer for all people either, the same way that the officer's logic  places a low opinion of firearms owned by citizens.  Guess if you cannot own a dog for various reasons then you are SOL, but never own a gun.   My pistol is in a convenient location when I'm at home and locked in a safe whenever I leave the house.  No law tells me it has to be locked up at all times unless going to a range or repair. 

That is correct that anti 2A minds will according to their logic push for more CA type laws to get the rate even lower while thinking people will see that more guns owned by more citizens mean lower rates. 
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: RSN172 on April 22, 2016, 09:33:53 PM
Cops like dogs.  When police go in your house, they shoot your dogs first.  Easier than dealing with humans who can shoot back.

Being that my dogs live indoors and are like family, anyone who shoots my dogs inside my home will get shot by me.  I don't care if they are LEO or not.  I can control my dogs and if they have to shoot them because they are being attacked means they did not ask to enter. 
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: MuffinMan on April 23, 2016, 06:38:57 AM
Matt Levi should have asked Maj Robinson if  he kept a gun at home.......Bet he does :wtf:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: punaperson on April 23, 2016, 06:54:44 AM
Matt Levi should have asked Maj Robinson if  he kept a gun at home.......Bet he does :wtf:
Hey, come on, everyone knows that he's "special" given his status as an "only one" whose would-be monopoly-of-violence is a forgone result of his elititist position.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 23, 2016, 07:58:57 AM
Matt Levi should have asked Maj Robinson if  he kept a gun at home.......Bet he does :wtf:
...
Huh?
Hpd supposed to have a sidearm all the time.
Even off duty, it's either required or recommended.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Kingkeoni on April 23, 2016, 04:11:48 PM
...
Huh?
Hpd supposed to have a sidearm all the time.
Even off duty, it's either required or recommended.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

It is NOT required.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Gordyf on April 23, 2016, 04:41:51 PM
I have always had dogs, never just one, Probably why my place has never gotten hit  by the regular daytime burglaries in my neighborhood, especially during the summer when the little twerps are out in force
That said what does that have to do with Second Amendment rights??.
Of course Major Robinson keeps a gun at home probably several. Not only 'Cause can, but he is probably required.
Us little folks on the other hand...
I wonder how many of our politically elite are allowed to carry without a permit, just a wink and a nod. If they were issued permits it would be public record. Best kept discreet.
You can't tell me that Judges and the like aren't  armed for their own security.
Aloha, I think
Gordy
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 23, 2016, 05:52:33 PM
...
Huh?
Hpd supposed to have a sidearm all the time.
Even off duty, it's either required or recommended.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct, they are supposed to have their guns all the time, unless they are intoxicated or doing something that precludes carrying a gun, like swimming.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: ren on April 23, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
I hope the people see the irony that a person who has lawful access to guns at work, CCW and at home is telling us citizens not to have them because criminals will steal them from us.
What about that instance where a gun was stolen from a police officers car in Kalihi?  :grrr: Now with that same argument why should police be armed? I didn't see the episode but thats one point the mediator should've brought up.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: dustoff003 on April 23, 2016, 06:50:09 PM
Attention: Prime Sports to start selling puppies!


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Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: MuffinMan on April 23, 2016, 09:52:40 PM
You are correct, they are supposed to have their guns all the time, unless they are intoxicated or doing something that precludes carrying a gun, like swimming.

How about when they're naked at a massage parlor sampling the goods...........oh wait, can they still do that?   It was in the line of duty after all. :wtf:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 24, 2016, 03:03:10 AM
How about when they're naked at a massage parlor sampling the goods...........oh wait, can they still do that?   It was in the line of duty after all. :wtf:

It becomes more difficult to conceal when naked but maybe a small revolver in the butt crack?
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 24, 2016, 03:10:00 AM
The episode is not posted yet but here is his website that has old episodes posted. Didn't see it on TV so waiting to see it here before I can add my 2 cents.

http://mattleviinvestigates.com/episodes.html
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: punaperson on April 24, 2016, 06:47:48 AM
You are correct, they are supposed to have their guns all the time, unless they are intoxicated or doing something that precludes carrying a gun, like swimming.
Are you saying that all sworn LEOs have a de facto CCW license? Can you cite any statutory language?
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Inspector on April 24, 2016, 08:03:02 AM
I tried recording it last night but ended up they screwed up and played an infomercial.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Rocky on April 24, 2016, 08:45:54 AM
Notice the good Major did not mention that one of the 3 "fatally shot at home with own gun" was an HPD officer. :wtf:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/26311630/hpd-mourns-officer-killed-in-accidental-shooting
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Jl808 on April 24, 2016, 10:11:54 AM

I tried recording it last night but ended up they screwed up and played an infomercial.

Haha me too. I kind of want to get that back stretcher now.

DVR says next replay is next Saturday 6:30pm.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Inspector on April 24, 2016, 10:23:56 AM
Haha me too. I kind of want to get that back stretcher now.

DVR says next replay is next Saturday 6:30pm.
Don't really want a back stretcher. Maybe a Thigh Master?  :rofl:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: London808 on April 24, 2016, 11:10:25 AM
I wonder how many CCW permits the AG office has issued, Considering they are the Chiefe law enforcement office on the State level.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: stangzilla on April 24, 2016, 12:35:49 PM
Matt Levi should have asked Maj Robinson if  he kept a gun at home.......Bet he does :wtf:

He has a chihuahua and a mouse gun.
Perfect match.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 24, 2016, 04:24:43 PM
Haha me too. I kind of want to get that back stretcher now.

DVR says next replay is next Saturday 6:30pm.
...
Next Saturday 4/30 at 630pm on KHNL.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 24, 2016, 04:54:10 PM
I tried recording it last night but ended up they screwed up and played an infomercial.
...
I don't know what you recorded but I'm pretty sure it was the wrong channel.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: dogman on April 24, 2016, 05:22:43 PM
I tried recording it last night but ended up they screwed up and played an infomercial.
...
I don't know what you recorded but I'm pretty sure it was the wrong channel.
I got an infomercial too. I learned from past experiences on weekends around news time to record the shows before and after the program I want... just in case... so I got Hawaii Guns a half hour later. It portrayed gun ownership as a negative, unnecessary  >:(.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Inspector on April 24, 2016, 06:16:05 PM
...
I don't know what you recorded but I'm pretty sure it was the wrong channel.
Right channel, right time, right program. Recorded back stretching infomercial. I have it set to record again next Saturday. Same bat time, same bat channel.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 24, 2016, 06:47:01 PM
Right channel, right time, right program. Recorded back stretching infomercial. I have it set to record again next Saturday. Same bat time, same bat channel.
...
Fyi, the back stretcher thing was at 6:00 pm
Matt levi was at 630pm.
I don't know anything about those DVR things. You actually put in a time to start??

It supposed to show again next week on a different channel.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Jl808 on April 24, 2016, 07:23:47 PM
The HT DVR channel guide shows the program info and time. You just select "Record Episode" and it records the program for you. It's likely that the channel guide had the wrong time info.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Inspector on April 24, 2016, 07:25:41 PM
...
Fyi, the back stretcher thing was at 6:00 pm
Matt levi was at 630pm.
I don't know anything about those DVR things. You actually put in a time to start??

It supposed to show again next week on a different channel.
My DVR was set to record the Levi show and it said it did record the Levi show from 6:30-7:00. When I set my DVR to record I set it to record the show. I don't put in the time.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: oldfart on April 24, 2016, 08:24:40 PM
My DVR was set to record the Levi show and it said it did record the Levi show from 6:30-7:00. When I set my DVR to record I set it to record the show. I don't put in the time.
...
That's what I was thinking.
Try again next Saturday on KHNL at 630pm
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 25, 2016, 12:02:52 AM
Are you saying that all sworn LEOs have a de facto CCW license? Can you cite any statutory language?

The law allows them to carry off duty. Their policies require them to.

Here is the statute that allows cops to carry firearms off duty, have short barreled rifles, have silencers, magazines greater than 10 rounds, etc.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0011.htm
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: punaperson on April 25, 2016, 07:26:36 AM
The law allows them to carry off duty. Their policies require them to.

Here is the statute that allows cops to carry firearms off duty, have short barreled rifles, have silencers, magazines greater than 10 rounds, etc.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0011.htm
Thanks.  :shaka:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: HiCarry on April 25, 2016, 09:47:23 AM
It is NOT required.
It is required....they are supposed to have their firearm, credentials, and handcuffs with them all the time. Of course certain activities, like surfing or drinking may preclude them carrying, and in general the directive is not well enforced, but it is a requirement.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: HiCarry on April 25, 2016, 09:55:02 AM
I wonder how many CCW permits the AG office has issued, Considering they are the Chiefe law enforcement office on the State level.
The AG cannot issue CCWs, only the Chiefs of Police for the respective counties have the statutory authority to do that.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: punaperson on April 25, 2016, 02:29:11 PM
The AG cannot issue CCWs, only the Chiefs of Police for the respective counties have the statutory authority to do that.
Speaking of statutory authority, perhaps you can tell me under what statutory authority the Kauai police chiefs issued two CCW licenses, one in 2006 for six months and one in 2013 for nine days, given that “§134-9  Licenses to carry.  (a) Unless renewed, the license shall expire one year from the date of issue.” It's going on three months since I filed my formal request for an answer to that question from the Kauai PD and chief and they told me two weeks ago to "be patient". Seems like a simple question that the issuing authority would be able to cite/quote immediately: "I derive my discretionary authority to determine the term of a CCW license via HRS xxx-x."  :stopjack:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: hispdvic on April 25, 2016, 03:17:19 PM
The law allows them to carry off duty. Their policies require them to.

Here is the statute that allows cops to carry firearms off duty, have short barreled rifles, have silencers, magazines greater than 10 rounds, etc.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0011.htm

Per the HPD policies, the barrel length on the long guns and shotguns for the officers has to be 16" or longer, no silencers are allowed, only the swat officers are allowed to carry the Dept/Swat issued short barreled Ar's and shotguns. The only firearms that they had with suppressors were the MP-5's that they used to have.
The AG's office handles the LEOSA permits.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 25, 2016, 11:54:15 PM
Per the HPD policies, the barrel length on the long guns and shotguns for the officers has to be 16" or longer, no silencers are allowed, only the swat officers are allowed to carry the Dept/Swat issued short barreled Ar's and shotguns. The only firearms that they had with suppressors were the MP-5's that they used to have.
The AG's office handles the LEOSA permits.

Yeah, on the guns for work use. It doesn't say hey can't have these weapons at all, just not work use I believe.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Surf on April 26, 2016, 08:08:15 AM
Per the HPD policies, the barrel length on the long guns and shotguns for the officers has to be 16" or longer, no silencers are allowed, only the swat officers are allowed to carry the Dept/Swat issued short barreled Ar's and shotguns. The only firearms that they had with suppressors were the MP-5's that they used to have.
The AG's office handles the LEOSA permits.
The MP5SD's still exist and are not the only suppressed weapons utilized, there are also suppressed bolt rifles.

Yeah, on the guns for work use. It doesn't say hey can't have these weapons at all, just not work use I believe.
It is only policy and not law that restricts the use for duty and departmentally owned weapons.  For private ownership, it is the same process.
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: HiCarry on April 26, 2016, 10:03:21 AM
Speaking of statutory authority, perhaps you can tell me under what statutory authority the Kauai police chiefs issued two CCW licenses, one in 2006 for six months and one in 2013 for nine days, given that “§134-9  Licenses to carry.  (a) Unless renewed, the license shall expire one year from the date of issue.” It's going on three months since I filed my formal request for an answer to that question from the Kauai PD and chief and they told me two weeks ago to "be patient". Seems like a simple question that the issuing authority would be able to cite/quote immediately: "I derive my discretionary authority to determine the term of a CCW license via HRS xxx-x."  :stopjack:
Why would you think I know where the Chief thinks he gets his authority? I have no idea....
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: Rocky on April 26, 2016, 11:01:46 AM
Why would you think I know where the Chief thinks he gets his authority? I have no idea....

 Kauai Police Commission  :shake:
Title: Re: Hawaii Guns
Post by: dustoff003 on May 09, 2016, 08:19:23 PM
Continuing discussion here with the video..... GUNS IN HAWAII... MATT investigates
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23035


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