2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: London808 on May 02, 2016, 10:13:58 PM
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More and more stores are now requested visual inspection of your receipt when leaving a store (mostly due to the new bag laws). Apart from member stores (SAMs, Costco ect....) I never show my receipts. It has got me followed to my car, yelled at, sworn at and threaten with the police being called. Through out this tho I have never shown my receipt and I encourage you to do the same.
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More and more stores are now requested visual inspection of your receipt when leaving a store (mostly due to the new bag laws). Apart from member stores (SAMs, Costco ect....) I never show my receipts. It has got me followed to my car, yelled at, sworn at and threaten with the police being called. Through out this tho I have never shown my receipt and I encourage you to do the same.
Why? What do you stand to gain by refusing to show a receipt? Why is it ok for Costco to do it but not Sears?
Put yourself in the shoes of a store owner. They lose a lot of money from thieves and are just trying to slow the blood loss.
Sure, out of some principle you could refuse to show your receipt, and absent evidence that you are stealing, you are free to go. It could, however, get you trespassed from the business.
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If I were you, I would simply refuse to conduct anymore business with those who have that policy.
My wife and I went to Costco, but before that we purchased a frozen Starbucks drink for the wife, upon attempting to enter, we were stopped and we were given the choice of discarding the drink or leaving it in our car (90° day out)... I selected my own option as said adios... Just because some degenerates leave/spill their drinks in the store, does not mean I will be irresponsible and let it happen.
Same thing with stores with no gun signs, I simply refuse to do business with them, cease to fuel the stupidity with your hard earned money.
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More and more stores are now requested visual inspection of your receipt when leaving a store (mostly due to the new bag laws). Apart from member stores (SAMs, Costco ect....) I never show my receipts. It has got me followed to my car, yelled at, sworn at and threaten with the police being called. Through out this tho I have never shown my receipt and I encourage you to do the same.
Walmart does this on a random basis or maybe suspicious circumstances. There is almost always a person standing by the exit asking people to see their receipts. If you are walking out with a Walmart bag I noticed they don't ask them. It is the people who have a cart and have items that are not in a bag they seem to target. But there is not always a person by the exit. So what are the circumstances that causes them to post a person there and what are they looking for?
Knowing this are you going to stop doing business with Walmart?
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I have no problem showing my receipts because I understand why a business would want to protect their assets.
I encourage anyone with issues with a stores practices to boycott the store so I can find parking easier.
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Showing a receipt is same as showing a ticket stub for going in a movie theater. Same as showing ID to buy alcohol. Nobody is accusing you of anything or infringing on your rights. They own the business so they set the policies.
Shoplifters make prices higher for everyone, so it is in your own interest to cooperate. Unless you are dishonest and trying to hide a cashier mistake in your favor, there is no reason to refuse showing that receipt.
No business can spot every shoplifter in action unless they put cameras every 3 feet with security people watching you. Would you prefer your every move be watched and recorded in the store, or would you rather show your receipt?
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I have no problem showing my receipts because I understand why a business would want to protect their assets.
I encourage anyone with issues with a stores practices to boycott the store so I can find parking easier.
LMAO
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If they ask for my receipt, I hand it to them and keep walking.
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Went to Walmart with the wife last week so she could get some crafting supplies for a school project and as we approached the exit there was a line of people waiting for security to check their receipts..... homie don't wait on that shit.... I walked around.
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Went to Walmart with the wife last week so she could get some crafting supplies for a school project and as we approached the exit there was a line of people waiting for security to check their receipts..... homie don't wait on that shit.... I walked around.
I'm with you on this. I don't mind showing my receipt if it doesn't mean standing in another line. Don't mean to go on a tangent, but It irritates me enough to stand in a long line in stores that have 20+ registers but only 4 open. :wtf: I guess the only reason they have 20+ registers is for Black Friday. Might as well make em all self checkouts.
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Why? What do you stand to gain by refusing to show a receipt?
Freedom
Why is it ok for Costco to do it but not Sears?
Because Costco is a store that you have to pay to be a part of and sign a consent to their policies
Put yourself in the shoes of a store owner. They lose a lot of money from thieves and are just trying to slow the blood loss.
Then invest in security cameras and don't harass good customers
Sure, out of some principle you could refuse to show your receipt, and absent evidence that you are stealing, you are free to go. It could, however, get you trespassed from the business.
If they trespass you for failure to show a receipt, go get the best lawyer you can find. You stand to win millions. The simple fact is that they do not check 100% of the people's receipts that walk out of the store, meaning that you have been discriminated against because you are (insert your ethnicity here)
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So I walked in to my bank today wearing my favorite ski mask, and they had the nerve to ask me to take it off.
I mean what is going on? My freedoms are being denied! I cannot believe they are throwing away good customer service just because they want to avoid theft. They already have cameras,that should be all they need.
Maybe I should sue for discrimination.
Disclaimer: You have every right to speak with your wallet,I am not discounting that, but lambasting them as if they are doing some outlandish thing just doesn't take the whole situation into account.
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My wife and I went to Costco, but before that we purchased a frozen Starbucks drink for the wife, upon attempting to enter, we were stopped and we were given the choice of discarding the drink or leaving it in our car (90° day out)... I selected my own option as said adios... Just because some degenerates leave/spill their drinks in the store, does not mean I will be irresponsible and let it happen.
Just speculating here but I am pretty sure that is a safety issue. All it takes is one idiot to spill something that causes another person to slip and fall and Costco is faced with a lawsuit for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not that they think you are that idiot but they never know and cannot predict it thus have to enforce it evenly.
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Why? What do you stand to gain by refusing to show a receipt? Why is it ok for Costco to do it but not Sears?
Put yourself in the shoes of a store owner. They lose a lot of money from thieves and are just trying to slow the blood loss.
Sure, out of some principle you could refuse to show your receipt, and absent evidence that you are stealing, you are free to go. It could, however, get you trespassed from the business.
Why ? Because i have no interest in having my property searched by a private company with no cause, They have no legal right to detain or search me unless they believe that i have stolen something by stoping and asking me for my recipt on the basis that i do not have my items in bags is simply that an detainment and accusation of theft.
what do you stand to gain ? I gain nothing, But i dont lose anything ether, Consenting to a search on the basis that other people might be staling is just bullshit. If they choose to trespass me thats on them, Good luck with that, Im not standing around having a conversation, To be trespassing i must be on their property after they have told me to leave, If they are detaining me then obviously im not trespassing.
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Knowing this are you going to stop doing business with Walmart?
I shop at wall-mart because they have good prices on a lot of stuff that i buy, That beingsaid i know im not going to b stoped, I just carry on walking. It has resulted in me being followed to my car and being yelled at by one of the door people (she called me a rude asshole for not stooping)
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Why don't they just put the cashiers near the door?
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Why don't they just put the cashiers near the door?
In the UK this is common, you go in 1 door and through a one way door, To leave you have to go through a check stand and out another door.
(http://www.supermarketshoppingcarts.com/photo/pl2274378-supermarket_swing_gate_grocery_store_electric_security_gate.jpg)
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The receipt check at Costco doesn't seem effective when all the person does 90% of the time is glance at the receipt, glance at the cart, scribble and then I leave. Based on quick glances how is he supposed to find the extra bottle of liquor or see that I was charged twice for granola bars. It's a joke.
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The receipt check at Costco doesn't seem effective when all the person does 90% of the time is glance at the receipt, glance at the cart, scribble and then I leave. Based on quick glances how is he supposed to find the extra bottle of liquor or see that I was charged twice for granola bars. It's a joke.
The real reason for the receipt check is to put the highliter slash over the receipt so you can't use it again.
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first world problems :shake:
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Why ? Because i have no interest in having my property searched by a private company with no cause, They have no legal right to detain or search me unless they believe that i have stolen something by stoping and asking me for my recipt on the basis that i do not have my items in bags is simply that an detainment and accusation of theft.
what do you stand to gain ? I gain nothing, But i dont lose anything ether, Consenting to a search on the basis that other people might be staling is just bullshit. If they choose to trespass me thats on them, Good luck with that, Im not standing around having a conversation, To be trespassing i must be on their property after they have told me to leave, If they are detaining me then obviously im not trespassing.
It's a fact businesses will lose more money to INTERNAL THEFT to shoplifting.
I don't have to prove I'm not a thief in order to walk through your store. I'm no lawyer but it'd be pretty hard for a business to trespass you just for this. There's this document, maybe you've heard of it Eyeeatingfish, called the Bill of Rights written a long time ago that provides us protection against illegal searches.
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The other day I went to WM to pick up one item I needed. I had a lot on my mind and was in a hurry. On my way out the guy at the door said something to me. I am also hard of hearing and said "you too" as I walked out as I thought he might have said have a good day. But in after thought he could have said can I see your receipt. I really don't know. I don't care either. However, if I had heard him ask for my receipt I would have shown it to him. :shake: :shake: :shake:
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Just speculating here but I am pretty sure that is a safety issue. All it takes is one idiot to spill something that causes another person to slip and fall and Costco is faced with a lawsuit for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not that they think you are that idiot but they never know and cannot predict it thus have to enforce it evenly.
Buzzzzz!!!! - Wrong again. If they were concerned with slip and fall cases....why would they hand out food and drink samples INSIDE????!!!! The real reason why they make you get rid of your outside food is so you'll spend more at Costco.
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Buzzzzz!!!! - Wrong again. If they were concerned with slip and fall cases....why would they hand out food and drink samples INSIDE????!!!! The real reason why they make you get rid of your outside food is so you'll spend more at Costco.
Exactly! It's all about the all mighty dollar. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. To think anything else is to not understand reality. JMHO
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I never show my receipts. It has got me followed to my car, yelled at, sworn at and threaten with the police being called.
Haha maybe it's guys like you who cause stress for the security guards at Don Quijote! They mentioned to me once that they were having a really bad day with fights at the exits. ;D
I haven't had any complaint with showing my receipts so far. After you do it once or twice, many guards will remember you and they'll never ask you again. Even when they do check, I've never had someone look through my stuff. They just glance at the receipt and check it off.
Most grocery stores do have their checkouts near the exits. Times has the one-way stalls, though I've crouched under the rails without incident.
Airports on the other hand, I have a lot of complaints. Doesn't matter anymore, as heightened security applies to almost everyone now. But back when it was only starting, I was always the one guy they'd stop and make me take my shoes off. Once they thought my Sega Dreamcast was a bomb, called security, and made me empty my bags onto the floor right in the open. They even made me open my Dreamcast box and show them all my games one by one.
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Shop Amazon. No need to show receipt :thumbsup:
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I don't have to prove I'm not a thief in order to walk through your store. I'm no lawyer but it'd be pretty hard for a business to trespass you just for this. There's this document, maybe you've heard of it Eyeeatingfish, called the Bill of Rights written a long time ago that provides us protection against illegal searches.
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure if you're on private property (like Costco) they can trespass you for just about anything... Also pretty sure the Fourth Amendment protects us from unreasonable search by agents of the government (e.g., cops). I expect you could refuse to let Costco search you on the way out and they would have no right to detain you without probable cause to believe that you'd been shoplifting, but in that case they could banish you (in which case any future visits would be criminal trespassing) and I don't think there'd be a whole lot you could do about it.
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Buzzzzz!!!! - Wrong again. If they were concerned with slip and fall cases....why would they hand out food and drink samples INSIDE????!!!! The real reason why they make you get rid of your outside food is so you'll spend more at Costco.
Agree to disagree. I mean, sure increased sales can be a side benefit, but spills is still absolutely a concern. Many clothing stores do not allow food and drinks into their stores but they are not selling food or drink so they clearly do it for reasons other than spending more money.
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The receipt check at Costco doesn't seem effective when all the person does 90% of the time is glance at the receipt, glance at the cart, scribble and then I leave. Based on quick glances how is he supposed to find the extra bottle of liquor or see that I was charged twice for granola bars. It's a joke.
Have you ever tried asking one what they look for? I did, and he said that they look at the number of items and I think he said something about the big ticket items. There is no way to check every item, but if there is a TV in the cart it would be easy to scan the receipt for the TV
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IANAL, but I'm pretty sure if you're on private property (like Costco) they can trespass you for just about anything... Also pretty sure the Fourth Amendment protects us from unreasonable search by agents of the government (e.g., cops). I expect you could refuse to let Costco search you on the way out and they would have no right to detain you without probable cause to believe that you'd been shoplifting, but in that case they could banish you (in which case any future visits would be criminal trespassing) and I don't think there'd be a whole lot you could do about it.
Precisely.
Additionally, if the store security did suspect you of shoplifting and detained you, they can actually get away with looking in your bags before the police arrive because they are not agents of the government and not restricted by the 4th amendment.
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IANAL, but I'm pretty sure if you're on private property (like Costco) they can trespass you for just about anything... Also pretty sure the Fourth Amendment protects us from unreasonable search by agents of the government (e.g., cops). I expect you could refuse to let Costco search you on the way out and they would have no right to detain you without probable cause to believe that you'd been shoplifting, but in that case they could banish you (in which case any future visits would be criminal trespassing) and I don't think there'd be a whole lot you could do about it.
Costco is a different animal because you have paid membership and agreement with them.
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Precisely.
Additionally, if the store security did suspect you of shoplifting and detained you, they can actually get away with looking in your bags before the police arrive because they are not agents of the government and not restricted by the 4th amendment.
Bzzzzz! - Wrong again. There are legal elements that store security must satisfy in order for them to even stop you - let alone call the cops to have you arrested or tresspassed.
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Bzzzzz! - Wrong again. There are legal elements that store security must satisfy in order for them to even stop you - let alone call the cops to have you arrested or tresspassed.
Sorry... Any private property owner can trespass you for almost any reason. Ever see the "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs? "No shirt, no shoes, no service" signs? With very few exceptions, if you are asked to leave and you remain, or return to a place from which you have been barred, you are guilty of trespassing. Doesn't matter if it's a membership club like Costco or a variety store like Target.
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Bzzzzz! - Wrong again. There are legal elements that store security must satisfy in order for them to even stop you - let alone call the cops to have you arrested or tresspassed.
I was only talking about what they can do if they stop you. So I was not wrong, I was not addressing the legal elements needed to detain someone. Different issue.
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Sorry... Any private property owner can trespass you for almost any reason. Ever see the "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs? "No shirt, no shoes, no service" signs? With very few exceptions, if you are asked to leave and you remain, or return to a place from which you have been barred, you are guilty of trespassing. Doesn't matter if it's a membership club like Costco or a variety store like Target.
Correct, the only time they cannot trespass warn you is if it has to do with a person being a protected class meaning they cannot trespass you because of race, religion, sex, etc. They can trespass you if you are ugly or like the wrong sports team though.
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No quotes because that would take forever.
Costco and Sams are the only 2 places i stop and thats because its a members store and as such i have agreed to that with my membership.
You can not be trespassed from a store for not showing your receipt, Trespassing is a criminal act and requires a person to remain on the property after being given reasonable notice to leave (or crosses into an enclosed area designed to exclude intruders)
Even if you are told verbally by a security guard not to come back no more ect....... this is not a legal reasonable notification. You would need to be told in Writing that you are not allowed on the property.
You can not be trespassed for another reason then staying on the property AFTER you have been notified by an AUTHORIZED agent to leave,
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No quotes because that would take forever.
Costco and Sams are the only 2 places i stop and thats because its a members store and as such i have agreed to that with my membership.
You can not be trespassed from a store for not showing your receipt, Trespassing is a criminal act and requires a person to remain on the property after being given reasonable notice to leave (or crosses into an enclosed area designed to exclude intruders)
Even if you are told verbally by a security guard not to come back no more ect....... this is not a legal reasonable notification. You would need to be told in Writing that you are not allowed on the property.
You can not be trespassed for another reason then staying on the property AFTER you have been notified by an AUTHORIZED agent to leave,
Being trespassed means you are given an order to leave and not return. From that point on, you will be committing trespassing if you return and you can be arrested for it. And they can trespass you for any reason other than for protected class reasons. That means that they can trespass you for refusing to show a receipt. If I go into a bank and refuse to remove my hat and sunglasses they can trespass me. Someone can trespass me from their club if they say I am too ugly. A trespass warning is not contingent on a criminal act.
You are correct that the warning is supposed to be communicated in writing, but when it comes down to it, how do you think it would play out in court if arrested for trespass? Is your defense going to be that they never notified you in writing? If they say that you refused to sign it do you think that is going to mean the trespass warning is not valid? Now if an employee simply told someone "brah, no come back" then that would not suffice, but a simple lack of cooperation would not invalidate a written trespass warning. I just don't want anyone to have the false impression that as long as they refuse to sign a trespass warning they cannot be arrested for violating the trespass warning.
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So far my instinct tells me eyeeatingfish is probably correct on his understand of trespassing. But I am not sure I believe him on the detaining and searching issues. When strangers come into my yard to steal stuff the police always ask me if I want to trespass them. But I wonder if I am legally allowed to detain them forcefully, or even search them forcefully?
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they can't detain you for not showing your receipt - in other words they can't stop you from leaving the store for something you paid for already. There's no sense for a store to issue a trespass violation to a customer that has paid for an item.
When I'm done waiting in a 6 people deep line to pay for something I'm like Ludacris.
Like I said, maybe they should position cashiers closer to the exit rather than having another layer of items for sale AFTER you pay for something. That's one way to separate those customers who have paid and are exiting the store from those who are still shopping.
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Being trespassed means you are given an order to leave and not return. From that point on, you will be committing trespassing if you return and you can be arrested for it. And they can trespass you for any reason other than for protected class reasons. That means that they can trespass you for refusing to show a receipt. If I go into a bank and refuse to remove my hat and sunglasses they can trespass me. Someone can trespass me from their club if they say I am too ugly. A trespass warning is not contingent on a criminal act.
You are correct that the warning is supposed to be communicated in writing, but when it comes down to it, how do you think it would play out in court if arrested for trespass? Is your defense going to be that they never notified you in writing? If they say that you refused to sign it do you think that is going to mean the trespass warning is not valid? Now if an employee simply told someone "brah, no come back" then that would not suffice, but a simple lack of cooperation would not invalidate a written trespass warning. I just don't want anyone to have the false impression that as long as they refuse to sign a trespass warning they cannot be arrested for violating the trespass warning.
The warning is not "supposed to be communicated in writing" It is required BY LAW to be in writing. This is how it would be played out in court (i doubt it would even get to court), Your honor i was not aware that i was trespassing as the area was open to the public and no written notification was provided to me as per HRS 708-814.
I dont know where you get the signing part from, You are not required to sign any trespass notification, Just being present with it is enough.
The fact that you are leaving the store when you are asked for your receipt means you cant be trespassed anyway, as to be trespassing you have to be on the property after being asked to leave.
Trespassing is the criminal act itself, To be trespassing you have to of refused a request to leave. If you walk into a bank with sunglasses on and they ask you to take them off that does not mean that they can trespass you. If they ask you to take them off and you say no, then they say can you leave then and you say no, then they can have you trespassed.
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So far my instinct tells me eyeeatingfish is probably correct on his understand of trespassing. But I am not sure I believe him on the detaining and searching issues. When strangers come into my yard to steal stuff the police always ask me if I want to trespass them. But I wonder if I am legally allowed to detain them forcefully, or even search them forcefully?
A house is a little different to a public space, That would be Trespassing in the first degree,
§708-813 Criminal trespass in the first degree. (1) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass in the first degree if:
(a) That person knowingly enters or remains unlawfully:
(i) In a dwelling; or
(ii) In or upon the premises of a hotel or apartment building;
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The warning is not "supposed to be communicated in writing" It is required BY LAW to be in writing. This is how it would be played out in court (i doubt it would even get to court), Your honor i was not aware that i was trespassing as the area was open to the public and no written notification was provided to me as per HRS 708-814.
I dont know where you get the signing part from, You are not required to sign any trespass notification, Just being present with it is enough.
The fact that you are leaving the store when you are asked for your receipt means you cant be trespassed anyway, as to be trespassing you have to be on the property after being asked to leave.
Trespassing is the criminal act itself, To be trespassing you have to of refused a request to leave. If you walk into a bank with sunglasses on and they ask you to take them off that does not mean that they can trespass you. If they ask you to take them off and you say no, then they say can you leave then and you say no, then they can have you trespassed.
Yes I know the law requires it, I was not denying that. What I was getting at with the signature thing is that absent a signature, how do you verify someone received a written notice? All the store has to do is say that they gave the suspect a written trespass warning but he threw it away. That is why a signed one with a photograph is proffered.
Being in the process of leaving the store does not make you immune to being issued a trespass warning. A trespass warning can be issued at any time. When people are arrested for shoplifting or police are called for some type of disturbance it is common to issue a trespass warning. It matters not whether the person refused to leave. The trespass warning is simply given because the store owner/representative wants the individual to not return to the property.
The criminal violation of Criminal Trespassing in the 2nd degree (with regards to a trespass warning) occurs when the person returns within a year or refuses to leave after given the warning.
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So far my instinct tells me eyeeatingfish is probably correct on his understand of trespassing. But I am not sure I believe him on the detaining and searching issues. When strangers come into my yard to steal stuff the police always ask me if I want to trespass them. But I wonder if I am legally allowed to detain them forcefully, or even search them forcefully?
There might be a bit of confusion, the search issue is not connected to the trespass issue.
What I was explaining about the searching of bags by store security is that the 4th amendment does not apply to private parties, it only restricts the government from searching your property. If a store security detains someone as a suspect in a shoplifting, they can and do search the bags of the suspect so they can recover the stolen items.
That is not to say that anyone can search your bags at any time though, they have to be able to justify your detention. If they stop you but it is later found out they didn't have good reason to stop you then they may have committed false imprisonment or face civil issues.
But lets say you found someone in your enclosed back yard and it is clear they are not there for any good reason. You can detain the person until police arrive. Now during that detention if you decide to go through their bag then there is no 4th amendment issue. It might be good to have an explanation handy to show why you went through the guys bag. (ex. make sure he didn't steal something from you)
Everything has to be justifiable though so you might want to refrain from detailing the mail man ;)
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So what constitutes a good reason to detain someone? Is "that guy didn't let us check his receipt at the doorway" good enough?
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So what constitutes a good reason to detain someone? Is "that guy didn't let us check his receipt at the doorway" good enough?
No, they would have to see not come in with the item, see you pick up the item, not pay for the item. They have to be 100 percent sure that you have stolen the item and be able to prove that, if not you could have them charged with unlawful imprisonment
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I really hate receipt checkers as I just want to leave the store with my stuff. But I understand the reasoning to help prevent shoplifting Stores may have to sell 10 things to make up the loss of one stolen item.
For commercial property there are 2 requirements for trespassing as discussed prior. The store issues a trespass notice to the person banning them from the premises, if the person stays on the property at that time or returns in the future, then the police can arrest them for the crime of trespassing. The store can detain anyone, however the store can be sued if no crime was committed..
Stores need to train their receipt checkers better. Some will say it's illegal to leave without getting their receipt checked, others are threatening and rude. I walked out of a store with my backpack and passed the receipt checker since I didn't buy anything. Outside the store a worker runs up to my and grabs me on the arm and yells at me for leaving the store and says I could be arrested for doing that. All he had to do was explain stuff to me politely and I'd have no problem with it.