2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: ilioncappy on May 14, 2016, 04:50:29 PM
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anyone have any thoughts or experiences with an ar in 7.62 x 39? are there any manufactures out there that can produce an accurate and reliable weapon for this caliber without weaknesses of an ak, thanks.
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What is your purpose for the rifle? What is your worries about the AK in regards to the AK platforms "weakness"?
Mags and feeding are a large part of the problem. Bolts are often suspect. Firing pins may need changing and there are other issues. Not many will execute this caliber build and do it well and with the advent of the 300blk the AK round conversion becomes even less desirable. Also AK ammo isn't as cheap as it used to be either so other caliber choices make even more sense.
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What are the weaknesses of an AK?
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from what i'm hearing the weakness in the ak's are the ability to mount optics vs the ar platform which can take just about anything, the other worry is the construction of the upper, stamped steel vs a one piece aluminum upper. correct me if i'm wrong, i do not own an ak and would not mind purchasing one if there are solutions to what i see are potential problems.
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I am not an AK expert. But I don't believe anyone is making AK match ammo like they do for the different AR calibers. So to get real good accuracy you probably will need to reload for your gun. Most of the ammo available for the AK is just military grade which from my experience doesn't compare to an AR caliber with a SMK bullet. Match grade ammo is available for most AR calibers.
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from what i'm hearing the weakness in the ak's are the ability to mount optics vs the ar platform which can take just about anything, the other worry is the construction of the upper, stamped steel vs a one piece aluminum upper. correct me if i'm wrong, i do not own an ak and would not mind purchasing one if there are solutions to what i see are potential problems.
I will mention it again but outlining what uses you will have for this rifle makes it much easier for others to give suggestions.
There are mounting options such as the Ultimak or the RS Regulate and other makers who produce similar standard picatinny or ring mounting options. Not as convenitent as a say a flat top AR but not difficult to work with for mounting options. As far as concern about stamped steel vs forged AR/M4 don't overthink it. Just understand that there are hundreds of thousands of stamped AK's with harder use over numerous war zones over decades that are still killing people. Basically harder use than any internet person debating the topic will ever put on the rifle. If it really bothers you, milled receivers are an option, but that adds weight.
Bottom line if you pick an AK, pick one from a quality manufacturer and not the bottom of the barrel and you will be fine when it comes to the AK platform. The bigger concern for a stamped receiver is the maker and how well or true they install the trunion. With a little bit of knowledge, inspecting certain aspects of the AK prior to purchase is not hard to do and will yield good results. Again a quality manufacturer and these things are far far less of a concern.
Again, if I were doing an AR15 build other than standard calibers, it would not be the 7.62x39. It would be the .300blk for a .30 cal round for hunting or a 6.5 or 6.8 for long range precision with more terminal ballistics. Or just opt for an AR10 pattern rifle if you need to have an AR type of platform.
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thank you so much surf for the information, can you give me the names of a few ak's that won't break the bank, but will provide good bang for the buck?
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thank you so much surf for the information, can you give me the names of a few ak's that won't break the bank, but will provide good bang for the buck?
WASR 10 is on the cheaper side. around 650. they aren't cheap like they used to be.
very dependable. side optic mount.
if you want an affordable dependable AK, the WASR is a very good choice.
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thank you so much surf for the information, can you give me the names of a few ak's that won't break the bank, but will provide good bang for the buck?
I don't want you to think I am talking you out of an M4 and into an AK as that isn't my purpose, but I am just trying to help you make an informed decision. In reality the platforms and ballistics are different enough that it would really help to understand what you want out of the rifle itself?
Is it going to be a range gun that only gets shot a few times a year? Is it a gun you will use for defense, hunting or maybe hard use for training classes? Do you want a classic style wood AK that only needs to look like a traditional AK, or do you want more performance? Again without knowing what you want makes it hard to give suggestions.
If it is a range plinker with low use a budget rifle will work OK and you will be in the $500 ~ $700 or so range. Anything more than that and you will be looking at rifles in the ~ $900 - $1000 plus range. Of course you need to consider new or used, or how lucky you get on pricing. Kind of sad that AK's have gotten to this price point, but they are pretty comparable price wise to an AR from budget to quality. Actually right now you can pick up a pretty top quality AR for under $1000.
AK's can range from (these are only some examples) from say a Romanian, Maadi, then into middle ground WASR 10, N-PAP, AK63D. Crazy but the old Chinese made variants used to be dirt cheap but they are often very expensive now.
Then you can step up into Russian, Bulgarian or Polish. Of course much depends on the builder. Arsenal and DDI make great rifles. DDI probably squeezing about the lowest cost wise you can go for good quality.
After this you step up into more custom builders and prices can go $2K plus.
Again and I cannot stress this enough is to understand what your needs are for the rifle.
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i'm probably looking for a range/plinking gun, something you can take out and have fun with, i don't think i would use it as a hunting rifle, i prefer something with a bit more accuracy for that. i already have ar's in different calibers so its just one of those what should i buy next things. i appreciate all the information everyone has been sharing so i will be looking out for a decent ak, the wasr sounds good
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PSA is making a new ar based platform gun in x39 that takes ak mags and drums. I am going to get one.
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nice, why didn't anybody else think of that....
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Several makers have done it and offer a 7.62 x 39 AR pattern rifle or similar.
Windham
Bear Creek
CMMG
PSA
Sig Sauer
To name a few.
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http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-ks47-classic-13-keymod-rifle.html
This is PSA's.
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I've shot the Sig 556R, but that was a while ago. I don't recall being particularly impressed either way though. I already had an AK, so wasn't really looking for something else in 7.62x39. The one thing that I though was a plus was that it came with a rail to mount an optic on the top of the receiver. I also recall it being somewhat pricey. Probably a little more than what stamped Arsenals went for at the time, but it had just come out so it was more in the "wait and see" phase. Haven't really heard much about the gun since then. Seems like they have a newer version, the 556xi Russian that has more of an AR style handguard.
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radical firearms makes an affordable one for about $650 on atlantic firearms, but they are usually sold out
other platforms that shoot 7.62x39:
Ruger mini 30
PTR 32
CZ 527 (bolt action)
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Just got an email from Rainier Arms and they have the X95 ODG on sale for $1849.95.
I haven't bought a gun from them, but I've ordered numerous other AR and firearm stuff from them and have always received great service. Too bad they weren't around when I lived in the area.
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I've shot the Sig 556R, but that was a while ago. I don't recall being particularly impressed either way though. I already had an AK, so wasn't really looking for something else in 7.62x39. The one thing that I though was a plus was that it came with a rail to mount an optic on the top of the receiver. I also recall it being somewhat pricey. Probably a little more than what stamped Arsenals went for at the time, but it had just come out so it was more in the "wait and see" phase. Haven't really heard much about the gun since then. Seems like they have a newer version, the 556xi Russian that has more of an AR style handguard.
Yes optics ready is about the only selling point over the ak. They are very accurate with lapua x39 ammo though.
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Just got an email from Rainier Arms and they have the X95 ODG on sale for $1849.95.
I haven't bought a gun from them, but I've ordered numerous other AR and firearm stuff from them and have always received great service. Too bad they weren't around when I lived in the area.
Keep an eye on aim surplus and copes distributing
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=ZFGXB16&name=IWI+TAVOR+X95-XB16+5.56+NATO+FLATTOP+16.5%22+BULL-PUP+BLACK&groupid=6891
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Too bad they weren't around when I lived in the area.
Ranier arms has a small store, but it's pretty cool
I will probably go at least every other time I go to Seattle, if not every time
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anyone have any thoughts or experiences with an ar in 7.62 x 39? are there any manufactures out there that can produce an accurate and reliable weapon for this caliber without weaknesses of an ak, thanks.
One of the most accurate rifles I have ever had in a "AK" platform is the PTR91 chambered in 7.62X39.
Super accurate and 100% reliable for me.
Ultimak makes a quad rail and gas tube rail for the AK platform. It makes the AK every bit as "accessorizeable" as an AR type rifle.
I have used the Ultimak offerings with great success.
If accuracy in an AK is what you seek, I would highly recommend silver bear hollow point ammo (7.62X39)
This is by far the most accurate ammo I have ever used in 7.62X39.
I have owned AR's chambered in 7.62X39 but didn't like the limited magazine options so have since sold them.
A great compromise is the CMMG mutant. It is getting some great reviews.
I've never shot one but it definitely looks intriguing.
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Get a MGI Hydra and have the ability to change to what ever caliber u want. 300blk, 6.8, 6.5, 22lr, 223/5.56, 50 beowulf, 450 bushmaster, 458 socom, 7.62x39. Can be done quick with a barrel swap, bolt change and correct magazine.
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One of the most accurate rifles I have ever had in a "AK" platform is the PTR91 chambered in 7.62X39.
Super accurate and 100% reliable for me.
If accuracy in an AK is what you seek, I would highly recommend silver bear hollow point ammo (7.62X39)
This is by far the most accurate ammo I have ever used in 7.62X39.
KK so you are saying that a PTR 32 is an AK (platform) style weapon?
I have some silver bear that I got from speedy now I want to go shoot it.
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The PTR91 and the PTR32 are HK G3 "pattern" or "platform" type of rifles utilizing a similar roller locking blowback. The 32 is chambered in 7.62x39 and utilize AK mags and the 91 is a .308 or NATO.
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Ranier arms has a small store, but it's pretty cool
I will probably go at least every other time I go to Seattle, if not every time
I think they opened up their shop/operation after I left.
There were lots of good shops there and I used to shoot at one range in Bellevue/Redmond about once a week. Most of the shops had a good selection of new and used guns. I haven't been back to Seattle since 2008, but I'll try to swing by Rainer next time I visit. :thumbsup:
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The PTR91 and the PTR32 are HK G3 "pattern" or "platform" type of rifles utilizing a similar roller locking blowback. The 32 is chambered in 7.62x39 and utilize AK mags and the 91 is a .308 or NATO.
I got you Surf I was just fact checking KK. The only thing AK about the PTR 32 is the fact that it uses AK mags.
I have a PTR 91 GI and I love it, it is currently my favorite rifle.
I want to buy a 32 in the future, I am also geeking hard on the Vz. 58.
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I think they opened up their shop/operation after I left.
There were lots of good shops there and I used to shoot at one range in Bellevue/Redmond about once a week. Most of the shops had a good selection of new and used guns. I haven't been back to Seattle since 2008, but I'll try to swing by Rainer next time I visit. :thumbsup:
One of the cool things they have is a display where they have a bunch of different AR triggers to try out(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160518/51bb8d4727328e5c4162b1c7828f144d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160518/a167bfb1834b90d6dae714a64c821815.jpg)
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I would love to own an HK 91 or G3, but the closest I'll likely get is the PTR 32.
I haven't seen one listed for sale in a while, but from past listings, it seems like they went for around $900-950 ish with maybe as high as $1000. That puts them in the Arsenal range.
Any of you who own or have shot the PTR 32, any feedback or comparison between it an Arsenal AKs?
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One of the cool things they have is a display where they have a bunch of different AR triggers to try out
That would just be dangerous for me. . . ;D
That and suppressors being legal would spell lots of $$$ being spent!
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at one time I really wanted a PTR91 or 32
they are supposed to be some very accurate rifles
I always wanted a HK91
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6kuSzzxDw
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM3BVcL7ME&list=WL&index=45
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anyone have any experience with the windam version?
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KK so you are saying that a PTR 32 is an AK (platform) style weapon?
I have some silver bear that I got from speedy now I want to go shoot it.
Technically it's not but it takes AK mags, so it's part of the family.
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The PTR91 and the PTR32 are HK G3 "pattern" or "platform" type of rifles utilizing a similar roller locking blowback. The 32 is chambered in 7.62x39 and utilize AK mags and the 91 is a .308 or NATO.
Actually, it is still a PTR-91, even if it's chambered in 7.62x39.
I actually own these guns and they're clearly printed PTR-91.
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Is that one of the kit rifles built off of early PTR91 receivers? I have heard of the rifles and some PDW's built off of these early 91's that were 7.62x39. I think Ghilliebear or some other guy was putting them together off of these receivers. I saw a few sold on gunsamerica or something like that. I could be mistaken but it is my understanding is that they were not complete rifles from PTR, Ind. Again not 100% on that, interesting however.
I would not agree that since it takes AK mags that it's "part of the family", it is a different operating system. Kind of like calling the Tavor a relative to the AR, or say a Kriss to a Glock.
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I'm not 100% sure of why they're called what they are.
I had heard at one time that the PTR-91's are the rifles, while the PTR-32's were the pistols.
And yes the Tavor is in my "AR" family, along with my Sig 556 and SCAR 16. :thumbsup:
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I own an ar15 x39, another ar15 x39 in progress and a ddi ak47.
Peicing the the arx39 was 3/4 of the fun. It shoots softer than my friends 5.56 and 300 blkout. I chose a midlength barrel. You may have to play with buffer weight ( I bought aluminum and steel rods of eBay ) and it currently has a .104" gas port diameter with a 5.5 oz rifle buffer. Shoots hella soft. Rifle weighs less than 7 lbs with a 20 round mag only 11 rounds inserted. (Never had more ammo at the time of weighing. Also had seekins scope rings on but no scope as I was still deciding. Accuracy wise I only had offset irons on but it atleast hits 10" circle target at 100 yards. Haven't been able to hit the range since then but I'll inform afterwards.
And spend the extra money if you go this route. Buy a lmt or Cason engineering bolt. It runs about 190 bucks each. Yea fucking expensive but I spent a couple months researching. ( lmt is just bolt and gas rings. Cason is bolt, rings and extended firing pin. When I say bolt I mean just that. Gotta buy your own carrier. I use fail zero m16 style). And yes mags are a hit and miss issue. I dremeled my mags and enlarged my feedramps. I have zero failures so far but I only have about 80 rounds so far lol. So "knock on wood"! I only went kokohead to test fire this rifle and sight in my others. Nothing fancy yet. I do have a scope now but just no time to hit the range. When I do I'll post accuracy pics. So just be prepared to dremel your feedramps etc. don't be scared. Asc mags are the best imho. But you can research that if you decide this route.
Also haven't been able to shoot my ddi ak47 yet either. I just got my bolt back from them. I'm new to ak's so I was concerned bout my bolt having corrosion and the firing pin was stuck protruding the bolt face. Had to use a wooden dowel and my lil hammer to get it free. Good customer service though. He just told me to send it back. They supposedly cleaned it and sprayed fenocite on the outer and it looks a whole lot better. I still had to wet sand my firing pin with 3000 grit and now it's so smooth and truly free floating!
Honestly speaking of I could go back I would build a 300 blkout instead. Only because hunting ammo in x39 (federal sp, Winchester Razorbacks) run about the same price as 300blk vortx hp/sp. and reloading would be easier since my friends reload 300 blkout. I only shoots brass x39 (roughly 11 bucks per 20 rounds) good shtf ammo price vs my old 6.8spc I use to have that were about a dollar a round for fmj.
Total cost of 1st ar x39 :1600 with mags scope etc.
Total cost of 2nd x39 : 1400 with mags and all
Total cost of ak47 so far :1100
But what's fun about buying a rifle that's complete? Just headache free sort of! I suggest headspacing if your piecing a rifle together. Supposedly the cone shape has something to do with pressure difference and steel cases don't expand as good. Which is why I only shoot brass. Cleaner too! Me lazy
Pm me if you have any questions .
Rock river lar7 has the ar15!style rifle in x39 that accepts ak mags. Duunoo if they still produce it though. I was looking for one when I decided to piece the damn thing together instead cause no one had it or could find a source for me. Fucking unicorn! Gunbroker may have some now that I'm not looking.
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great report aaron, sounds like a winner