2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on June 18, 2016, 03:51:49 PM
-
Okay, I'm not going to make any personal conclusions about Obama's faith, but I do want to toss this out for additional inputs.
Please only post opinions supported by facts you include. Opinions on their own are unproductive re: religion.
Here goes.
A. Barrack Obama was born of a Muslim father. That makes Barrack Obama a Muslim at birth:
The Shaafa‘i scholar an-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The one whose parents, or one of them, are Muslim is also regarded as a Muslim with regard to rulings concerning the hereafter and worldly matters. End quote from Sharh Muslim, 16/208
B. Obama by either admission or lies, has stated many times he is a Christian.
C. Muslims around the world have not called for Obama to be executed for being an apostate. Apostasy (riddah) means turning away from Islam in word, deed or belief.
And it says in ar-Rawdah: The apostasy of one who has reached the age of discernment counts as such, so he should be asked to repent. If he repents all well and good, otherwise he is to be executed and the rulings on one who has reached puberty also apply to him. In the case of one who has not reached the age of discernment, we should wait until he reaches puberty. If he reaches puberty and is still an apostate, he is to be executed after asking him to repent.
So, based on my own reading of these statements, there are 2 possibilities:
1. Obama is a Muslim, and he is lying about being Christian. The Muslim world approves of lying about one's faith if it serves Islam. or,
2. Obama's birth to a Muslim father and non-Muslim mother in a non-Muslim country (US) have the Muslim world believing, correctly or not, he is non-Muslim, in spite of his father's faith and spending his early years in Muslim Mosques and Muslim schools in a Muslim majority country.
Curious what others might deduce from this and other info you have seen.
https://islamqa.info/en/165492
-
I am personally having a hard time believing he is at this time, a Muslim. He did make a Freudian slip in an interview in 2007 and talked about "...My Muslim faith..." But then corrected himself and said "...My Christian faith...". And there is a family picture of him dressed in typical Muslim garb. He might have been a Muslim at one time but he was going to a Christian church at the time he decided to run for president.
Now if you want to say Obama is prejudiced against Jews and The white man because of his teachings from Jerimiah Wright, I can honestly believe that. Because he fully admitted he had been going to this church for many years. If he found what Wright was teaching abhorrent, he would not have been going to his church. Wright is a bigot and teaches such bigotry. JMHO
-
Sounds like a troll thread...
But to answer your question,
No, the religion of your father never dictates your religious identity. That religion can say they consider Obama a muslim through his father but that does not make Obama an actual follower of Islam. Religious identity comes from a personal decision and no one else can define you that way.
Could he be a closet muslim? Sure, anything is possible. But he did attend a christian church for some time at that crazy angry pastor's church. There are a few concerns here and there but ultimately there is little evidence to suggest he is a closet muslim.
-
Sounds like a troll thread...
But to answer your question,
No, the religion of your father never dictates your religious identity. That religion can say they consider Obama a muslim through his father but that does not make Obama an actual follower of Islam. Religious identity comes from a personal decision and no one else can define you that way.
Could he be a closet muslim? Sure, anything is possible. But he did attend a christian church for some time at that crazy angry pastor's church. There are a few concerns here and there but ultimately there is little evidence to suggest he is a closet muslim.
As I said in the OP, don't just post opinions without sources. Otherwise, you're just being contrary.
Reading is FUN-damental! Try it!
-
As I said in the OP, don't just post opinions without sources. Otherwise, you're just being contrary.
Reading is FUN-damental! Try it!
So you ask me for evidence but not Inspector when I made the same claim as him. I figured it was common knowledge among any good Obama critic but sure, here is evident as to Obama's attendance of Jeremiah Wrght's church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright
-
So you ask me for evidence but not Inspector when I made the same claim as him. I figured it was common knowledge among any good Obama critic but sure, here is evident as to Obama's attendance of Jeremiah Wrght's church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright
Hey, smart guy! Where is the sourtce backing up your claim that a child born to a Muslim is not a Muslim??? "Never" is a strong qualifier, so I expect you can back that up!!??
No, the religion of your father never dictates your religious identity.
-
Hey, smart guy! Where is the sourtce backing up your claim that a child born to a Muslim is not a Muslim??? "Never" is a strong qualifier, so I expect you can back that up!!??
I don't need proof for that, religious identity is yours to make, no one can force you to be a certain religion. Prove that your parents religion automatically means you have the same religion.
Or better yet, stop trolling. :closed:
-
I don't need proof for that, religious identity is yours to make, no one can force you to be a certain religion. Prove that your parents religion automatically means you have the same religion.
Or better yet, stop trolling. :closed:
Read section A. in the very first post.
-
Read section A. in the very first post.
That is proof of nothing! Some guy could be an atheist but if his dad were a muslim you would still consider him a muslim because a muslim scholar said so? Please do explain how a scholars opinion cancels out someone's personal religious choice.
-
That is proof of nothing! Some guy could be an atheist but if his dad were a muslim you would still consider him a muslim because a muslim scholar said so? Please do explain how a scholars opinion cancels out someone's personal religious choice.
Never really looked into Islam, have you? They have different rules than, say, Christians.
Go read the link I posted. If you don't want to believe it, then don't. That doesn't make it false. If you want to disprove it, post sources as to why this is wrong.
OTHERWISE, QUIT POSTING PERSONAL OPINIONS WITH NOTHING TO BACK THEM UP! I thought I made that point pretty clear, but since you didn't really read my first post (as evident by your last couple of comments), I'm sure you missed the first and second times I asked you to post sources.
So far, you're batting zero by refusing to play nice. If you can't follow the rules in my thread, then you'll have to just talk to yourself. :stopjack:
-
Never really looked into Islam, have you? They have different rules than, say, Christians.
Go read the link I posted. If you don't want to believe it, then don't. That doesn't make it false. If you want to disprove it, post sources as to why this is wrong.
OTHERWISE, QUIT POSTING PERSONAL OPINIONS WITH NOTHING TO BACK THEM UP! I thought I made that point pretty clear, but since you didn't really read my first post (as evident by your last couple of comments), I'm sure you missed the first and second times I asked you to post sources.
So far, you're batting zero by refusing to play nice. If you can't follow the rules in my thread, then you'll have to just talk to yourself. :stopjack:
It doesn't matter what rules Islam makes up, no one controls your religious identity. No proof is required for such a statement. Or perhaps you would like to prove that one man's comments about a religion can override someone's personal decision to not follow Islam?
Ok, you want a link so you can not have to address logic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_formation#Religious_identity
Why did I even bother responding you your troll thread. :closed:
-
Why did I even bother responding you your troll thread. :closed:
hey mr pot!
-
hey mr pot!
:worship: :worship: :worship:
-
hey mr pot!
Wait. Is he Mr. Pot or Mr. Kettle? Think of the children!
-
I am personally having a hard time believing he is at this time, a Muslim. He did make a Freudian slip in an interview in 2007 and talked about "...My Muslim faith..." But then corrected himself and said "...My Christian faith...".
Ah, incorrect, the ever helpful uber-liberal George Suffanalloverus did the supposed correction, not Obutthole.
After all, do not Christians often blurt out "My Muslim Faith?" I must hear it several times a week.
-
Ah, incorrect, the ever helpful uber-liberal George Suffanalloverus did the supposed correction, not Obutthole.
After all, do not Christians often blurt out "My Muslim Faith?" I must hear it several times a week.
The thing that bothers me is how many times he uses the phrase "The Holy Koran.'
I've NEVER heard him say, "The Holy Bible" or "The Holy Torah" when speaking about Christians and Jews.