2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: edster48 on July 03, 2016, 09:40:41 AM
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Secret government lists of "undesirables" or "domestic terrorists".
Militarization of federal bureaucracies.
Control of the media for the purpose of spreading propaganda.
Blatant disregard for the Constitution and the laws of this country.
It becomes more obvious every day that our government, be it federal, state, or local, is descending into the same fascist, totalitarian ideology that we fought two world wars to prevent.
At what point do we say "Enough", and take up arms to prevent it? What will it take to tip the country into civil war? How close are we?
Where is your "line in the sand"?
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Secret government lists of "undesirables" or "domestic terrorists".
Militarization of federal bureaucracies.
Control of the media for the purpose of spreading propaganda.
Blatant disregard for the Constitution and the laws of this country.
It becomes more obvious every day that our government, be it federal, state, or local, is descending into the same fascist, totalitarian ideology that we fought two world wars to prevent.
At what point do we say "Enough", and take up arms to prevent it? What will it take to tip the country into civil war? How close are we?
Where is your "line in the sand"?
california just got a lot closer to the line...
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America has had a for sale sign posted for years. Dems like Clinton got offers. Look at contributors to their Foundation and you can see how our foreign and domestic policies are developed.
The People cant afford to influence our leaders. Leaders pay the usual casual listen and nod passively.
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Thoughts posted on same topic 6 months ago
Re: Thoughts on Oregon Bundy fiasco ?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2016, 08:53:20 AM
Nice comeback by Aiea78
Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 12:05:15 AM
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My line in the sand is when I am ordered to take up arms against my countrymen.
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My line in the sand is when I am ordered to take up arms against my countrymen.
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A fine answer sir. You're the only one brave enough to answer the question so far.
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Since I know the question is coming, I'll tell you where my line is: When they try to take my guns by force.
I see this as the inevitable "end game" of gun control, the entire point. I have no illusion any more that the government is looking out for my best interests.
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My line in the sand is when I am ordered to take up arms against my countrymen.
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AMEN!
Seems like some may be drawing the line if Hellery gets elected.
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Heres a different way of asking the same question
At what point are your rights worth your life?
Because ultimately thats what were talking about here, At some point a time might come where you have to make a stand and say you will not allow your rights to be taken from you and that decision could cost you your life,
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I don't know when, but I know who = Dims.
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https://youtu.be/9ALcqt6GMhM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx5J0dW2rh4
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https://youtu.be/lEOOZDbMrgE
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https://youtu.be/lEOOZDbMrgE
not sure if I'd go so far as having my balls cut off before they dismember me.
I understand freedom is not free. Scotland paid a huge price. I'm afraid as we go down this road of eroding freedom our credit card bill is going to be as large as having balls cut off. Let's not go that far.
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not sure if I'd go so far as having my balls cut off before they dismember me.
I understand freedom is not free. Scotland paid a huge price. I'm afraid as we go down this road of eroding freedom our credit card bill is going to be as large as having balls cut off. Let's not go that far.
Balls? I thought he was disemboweled. When the jesters were on the stage before "cleansing" started, they used a rope to mimic having one's bowels yanked out.
I think being disemboweled would hurt way worse.
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Secret government lists of "undesirables" or "domestic terrorists".
Militarization of federal bureaucracies.
Control of the media for the purpose of spreading propaganda.
Blatant disregard for the Constitution and the laws of this country.
It becomes more obvious every day that our government, be it federal, state, or local, is descending into the same fascist, totalitarian ideology that we fought two world wars to prevent.
At what point do we say "Enough", and take up arms to prevent it? What will it take to tip the country into civil war? How close are we?
Where is your "line in the sand"?
When Obama declares martial law after manufacturing some kind of disaster and he doesn't leave office.
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Heres a different way of asking the same question
At what point are your rights worth your life?
Because ultimately thats what were talking about here, At some point a time might come where you have to make a stand and say you will not allow your rights to be taken from you and that decision could cost you your life,
Quite correct, and IMO that point is approaching more rapidly than ever before. When I was 21 the issues we're facing today were unthinkable, it "couldn't happen here". We figured the Constitution would protect us. Yet here we are, gun confiscation is becoming a reality in CA, which generally means we'll see the same efforts here in the near future. It's not just gun rights either, the entire Bill of Rights is under attack. Under the guise of the war on terror and the terribly misnamed "Patriot Act" our government surveils us at will. We tolerate checkpoints operated by armed agents of the state where our "papers" are checked and we're forced to endure questioning under threat of arrest should we fail to cooperate. Even freedom of speech is under attack via "political correctness", and if some in congress had their way, by law.
I think we've forgotten something along the way, the Constitution is designed to protect our rights, but we have a duty to protect the Constitution.
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The Roman Republic lasted almost 500 years before its demise as plotted by Caesar.
The United States as a Republic is half way there (250 years), before I believe an partial collapse of the system will happen.
It won't be in our lifetime but I assure you there is a plot to take over this country from right under its citizens noses with full support.
No single civilization has lasted as long as the Chinese. Even then, no Dynasty had lasted more than a few hundred years.
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When Obama declares martial law after manufacturing some kind of disaster and he doesn't leave office.
Not sure I subscribe to that possibility. Simply put I don't think he has the loyalty of the troops where he could openly subvert the entire system of government.
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Secret government lists of "undesirables" or "domestic terrorists".
Militarization of federal bureaucracies.
Control of the media for the purpose of spreading propaganda.
Blatant disregard for the Constitution and the laws of this country.
It becomes more obvious every day that our government, be it federal, state, or local, is descending into the same fascist, totalitarian ideology that we fought two world wars to prevent.
At what point do we say "Enough", and take up arms to prevent it? What will it take to tip the country into civil war? How close are we?
Where is your "line in the sand"?
Like I said in another thread, I might fear civil war before WW3.
I don't know where my line in the sand is. Would it be a line I draw ahead of time or would it be an epiphany? I don't know, it is a difficult question. I think it would entail a clear breakdown of the federal government.
I honestly don't think we are close enough to crumble where I have to draw lines yet. Government lists of undesirables is nothing new. Regard for the constitution is a two way street as well, since we have made both advancements and losses.
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IMO they are a long way from kicking in doors and taking your guns, They will go after a bunch of stuff first, Regulations and restrictions to lower the supplies and the stockpiles of guns and ammo.
Ammo : Only available in person from an FFL, only for in person sales,
Reloading supplies : only in person from an FFL,
Gun parts : Regulate major parts such as barrels and triggers with the aim of stooping terrorists building there own, Again only available from an FFL.
Online sales : GONE, you can only buy a firearm from an FFL in person, They dont have it they have to order it for you.
Gun shows : Gone, you can only shop at an FFL's place of business
Magazines : Again only from an FFL in person.
Imports : Larger ban on imported firearms and ammo OR higher import tarifs to make it un-affordable to buy.
More laws restricting people from owning, Lowering the bar to make you a prohibited person.
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IMO they are a long way from kicking in doors and taking your guns, They will go after a bunch of stuff first, Regulations and restrictions to lower the supplies and the stockpiles of guns and ammo.
Ammo : Only available in person from an FFL, only for in person sales,
Reloading supplies : only in person from an FFL,
Gun parts : Regulate major parts such as barrels and triggers with the aim of stooping terrorists building there own, Again only available from an FFL.
Online sales : GONE, you can only buy a firearm from an FFL in person, They dont have it they have to order it for you.
Gun shows : Gone, you can only shop at an FFL's place of business
Magazines : Again only from an FFL in person.
Imports : Larger ban on imported firearms and ammo OR higher import tarifs to make it un-affordable to buy.
More laws restricting people from owning, Lowering the bar to make you a prohibited person.
Yeah, it's a total "incrementalism" approach. "They" started this stuff in the late 60s and early 70s in California, when public opinion "polling" showed a fairly sizable majority of Americans favored banning handguns. Their goal all along has been civilian disarmament one small step at a time (some of the organizations leaders at the time openly admitted that was their goal, nowadays they rarely let that slip, though many ordinary "progressives" now openly state civilian disarmament must be achieved). It's taken "them" almost 50 years to get to where California is now... and you can bet serious money that they already have further encroaching bills written and waiting to be submitted and enacted once this latest round goes into effect. There is no "compromise" with these people, not really and not ultimately. They are in for the long game, and another 50 years to achieve their goal(s) is not desirable, but is acceptable to them, and all their policies point to total control, including their immigration policies which have and will continue to skew the electorate to the "progressive" total statist government intrusion and control position. Once the electorate is under control, then the majorities in all the legislatures, executive branches and judicial/court sphere will render and enforce the laws that will ultimately spell our ("liberty-oriented") demise. With likely 30 million illegal aliens seeking "amnesty" and voting rights (nearly 90% vote "progressive") we are in serious trouble.
I wish I could see it differently.
Happy Fourth of July everyone! :shaka:
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Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? What fates befell them for daring to put their names to that document?
Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died.
Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.
Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured.
Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.
They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
What kind of men were they?
Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.
As for my line? I'll cross it if the time comes. My decision will come at the point which I have no doubt that any better option exists, and that my decision to cross the line will lead to a better future for my Family , and will be for the greater good of my Country . Safe 4th to you all.
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A poem by Tarzana Jones called
When Comes The Revolution?
When will we rise in passion
Oh, what will bring the day
Could it be when the Leadership
Can tell us what to say?
Or will the barque of tyranny
At last begin to sink
That fateful day the Leadership
Can tell us what to think
(Just as they set the quota
On the ounces we can drink)
Or will their rise to power
Be forced to slow retreat
The moment that the Leadership
Can tell us what to eat
They say that they’re for choices
But we’ve lost the right to choose
The comments we can favorite
And the bags that we can use
The butter in our baked goods
Is in line for confiscation
They’re monit’ring our messages
And even our lactation
If we don’t stand tomorrow
I’m afraid it’s our own fault
We should have seen this coming
When they came to seize our salt
So will their codes and dictates
At last meet with repeal
The hour that the Leadership
Can tell us what to feel
I did it as a child
But now that I am old
I vow to tell the Leadership
I won’t do what I’m told
Happy 4th!
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And who would give you the order ?
I'd hate to be the cop that knocked on the door. :o
[quote author=London808
Heres a different way of asking the same question
At what point are your rights worth your life?
Because ultimately thats what were talking about here, At some point a time might come where you have to make a stand and say you will not allow your rights to be taken from you and that decision could cost you your life,
And what kind of life would you have with NO RIGHTS ? :grrr::( :'(
[quote author=ren
I understand freedom is not free. Scotland paid a huge price. I'm afraid as we go down this road of eroding freedom our credit card bill is going to be as large as having balls cut off. Let's not go that far.
Do our service members not agree to pay the ultimate price to defend our freedom ?
When they can't /won't, shouldn't we as Civie Militia" take up the cause ?
And if SHTF, your credit card bill will be the least of your worries so CHARGE ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Well said.
:wtf: Where the ;D have you been ? ???
If you can't tell that the system is already broke/failing, better get back to googling some more . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Before making that line, it's good to get your things and situation in order and you're lucky if you already did.
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http://youtu.be/Fd3JrFXLrA0
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I'd hate to be the cop that knocked on the door. :o
Do our service members not agree to pay the ultimate price to defend our freedom ?
When they can't /won't, shouldn't we as Civie Militia" take up the cause ?
And if SHTF, your credit card bill will be the least of your worries so CHARGE ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:wtf: Where the ;D have you been ? ???
If you can't tell that the system is already broke/failing, better get back to googling some more . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Rocky,
You multi quoted a few people so it was kinda hard to follow you.
To my quote and your question: the president, the governor or officers appointed over me, that's who.
"Do our service members not agree to pay the ultimate price to defend our freedom ?"
Don't know where you were going with this? As I mentioned I would draw the line at taking up arms against righteous rebel citizens of this county if ordered. I am in my 21st year of military service to this country and on my third deployment. I am ready to and have already defended this country if it is my time to be killed oh well can't do much about it, yes I am ready I was ready when I volunteered to serve under my own free will and I knew it could mean my life. There is a difference in defending freedom and being the muscle of the tyrannical takers of freedom.
"When they can't /won't, shouldn't we as Civie Militia" take up the cause ?"
Maybe this should be in the drunken postings? Once again confused I am a member of the organized Civilian Militia. In my organized militia capacity of I was ordered to fight a unorganized civilian militia that was truly defending the core rights and beliefs of this country that would be my line. By choosing to cross the line I could be charged with serious capital crimes punishable by death if I followed through and crossed the line...
Have a good day I hope your Independence Day was good all the best.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I believe the point of tipping just got that much closer, with the refusal of the FBI director to formally recommend the prosecution of a certain elite official.
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I believe the point of tipping just got that much closer, with the refusal of the FBI director to formally recommend the prosecution of a certain elite official.
(https://equitatus.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/animal-farm-1.jpg)
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Yes, the FBI that let Hillary skate is the same agency that prosecuted hundreds of teenagers for downloading music.
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I believe the second to the last step towards the tipping point will come when Billary gets elected and chooses a "moderate" for the SCOTUS. And after the sheeple Repubs approve, it will turn out that the person is a progressive. Think Sotomayor. Oh no, we have been duped again. :wtf:
The last straw will occur when the next time the Dems have control of the WH, Senate and House at the same time. You think we are losing our rights now, just wait. I know they are already planning what to do when the stars all align for them. It is really only a matter of time. And we are running out of time to do something about it.
Let's face it, the world is changing. We as individuals don't have control over it. As a group we do but in order to accomplish anything we need to clear out the gene pool of all the educated geniuses first. Then we need to vote out the professional scum buckets. Unfortunately, this is not a very likely scenario. I hate to be such a pessimist these days but I know what my gut is telling me. I truly hope I am wrong and I will continue to fight any way I can. I just feel like I am now fighting a losing battle. Aside from that, revolt is the only path back IMHO.
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Aside from that, revolt is the only path back IMHO.
How do you imagine the revolt would take place? We can't exactly storm the White House unless we had tens of thousands of people. Armed protests? Massive disruptive peaceful protests?
It is interesting to imagine how such a thing would actually be carried out. We are so far removed here I don't know how we would paly a role.
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We can't exactly storm the White House unless we had tens of thousands of people. Armed protests? Massive disruptive peaceful protests?
This is exactly how I imagine it happening.
It is interesting to imagine how such a thing would actually be carried out. We are so far removed here I don't know how we would paly a role.
I imagine a lot of us would either do the same here or ship off to the mainland to participate.
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This is exactly how I imagine it happening.
I imagine a lot of us would either do the same here or ship off to the mainland to participate.
I gave a couple of scenarios... which one were you talking about?
I don't know that a violent response would be best here. I would go the peaceful route for now.
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Who wants to start a Stand Down campaign where law enforcement, soldiers, and government agents take a pledge to never fire upon non violent civilians, and publish a list of those who refuse to sign? After all state sponsored murder is illegal so nobody should have a problem with making such an agreement. The whole point would be to draw attention to our immediate future which seems to be heading in this direction.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/06/27/oaxacas-teachers-movement-not-thwarted-state-terror
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I gave a couple of scenarios... which one were you talking about?
Any and all scenarios. I believe if it comes to it there will be a lot more than what we are talking about here.
I don't know that a violent response would be best here. I would go the peaceful route for now.
The problem with your feelings is that we have been going the peaceful route for well over 50 years. The politicians obviously ignore our petitions, our letters and our peaceful protests. They feel that we are voting them in to do exactly what they are doing. So they are justified in ignoring anything that contradicts their feelings.
The point of this thread was where would you draw the line. I stated where I would draw the line. I have not seen you post where you would draw the line.
:stopjack:
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The point of this thread was where would you draw the line. I stated where I would draw the line. I have not seen you post where you would draw the line.
:stopjack:
[/quote]
Actually, he did say "I don't know where my line is, it's a difficult question."
We should remember that many on this forum are much younger than we are, and were raised under a different set of circumstances. They don't remember the cold war. WW II is as distant a memory to them as the civil war is to us. They've been taught revisionist history and that the Constitution is a "living" document. What you and I see as a gross violation of the founding principles set forth in the Constitution, they see as "It's always been this way, it's just how things are done." Most have never even read the Constitution and have never considered taking up arms against government gone wrong.
It is a difficult question. It should be. When and if it ever comes to that, the country as we know it will change forever.
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Who wants to start a Stand Down campaign where law enforcement, soldiers, and government agents take a pledge to never fire upon non violent civilians, and publish a list of those who refuse to sign? After all state sponsored murder is illegal so nobody should have a problem with making such an agreement. The whole point would be to draw attention to our immediate future which seems to be heading in this direction.
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/06/27/oaxacas-teachers-movement-not-thwarted-state-terror
no one needs to start a campaign, it has already been going on for a long time
https://www.oathkeepers.org/
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I gave a couple of scenarios... which one were you talking about?
I don't know that a violent response would be best here. I would go the peaceful route for now.
see reply #38
would you take the oath?
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My tipping point:
Probably when I hear about door to door confiscation.
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Rocky,
You multi quoted a few people so it was kinda hard to follow you.
To my quote and your question: the president, the governor or officers appointed over me, that's who.
"Do our service members not agree to pay the ultimate price to defend our freedom ?"
Don't know where you were going with this? As I mentioned I would draw the line at taking up arms against righteous rebel citizens of this county if ordered. I am in my 21st year of military service to this country and on my third deployment. I am ready to and have already defended this country if it is my time to be killed oh well can't do much about it, yes I am ready I was ready when I volunteered to serve under my own free will and I knew it could mean my life. There is a difference in defending freedom and being the muscle of the tyrannical takers of freedom.
"When they can't /won't, shouldn't we as Civie Militia" take up the cause ?"
Maybe this should be in the drunken postings? Once again confused I am a member of the organized Civilian Militia. In my organized militia capacity of I was ordered to fight a unorganized civilian militia that was truly defending the core rights and beliefs of this country that would be my line. By choosing to cross the line I could be charged with serious capital crimes punishable by death if I followed through and crossed the line...
Have a good day I hope your Independence Day was good all the best.
First of all DustOff, Thank You for your service to our country. :thumbsup:
Based upon your reply, you appear to be one of the "Oath Keepers" and that's a good and honorable thing.
My Service Member/Civie (civilian) comment was meant for Civies to take up the cause including paying the ultimate price "truly defending the core rights and beliefs of this country" :worship:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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With respect, I don't think this thread should be asked.
It is an interesting question but this thread puts people on the spot, and also is a kind of record, if you know what I mean.
I think the only really true answer is that we will all do what we will do, when the time comes. And that "time" is actually hard to determine.
I have surprised myself from time to time at the things I am willing to do to defend another person or even another animal.
It's not "bravery." It's just that at that moment, the person who you truly are, will not allow you to take no action to prevent evil.
All else leading up to that moment, pretty theoretical.
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13614972_10209761335016490_4056963383255818914_n.jpg?oh=61d245b3c6253ab8ecddb4276b4fca17&oe=583310E0)
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I see a lot of people talking about them coming for our guns, What about other rights ? or is the 2a the only one thats important
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Any and all scenarios. I believe if it comes to it there will be a lot more than what we are talking about here.
The problem with your feelings is that we have been going the peaceful route for well over 50 years. The politicians obviously ignore our petitions, our letters and our peaceful protests. They feel that we are voting them in to do exactly what they are doing. So they are justified in ignoring anything that contradicts their feelings.
The point of this thread was where would you draw the line. I stated where I would draw the line. I have not seen you post where you would draw the line.
:stopjack:
Feelings are irrelevant, what would work is relevant. Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. would have been more effective had he and the rest of the protestors shot the police who were beating them?
And yes, this is all relevant. How you would draw the line is directly related to where you would draw the line. The line at which I would peacefully revolt is different than the line I would violently revolt.
And I did answer the main question. I said it is a hard question and I don't know exactly where I would draw the line. Refer to post #19 if you want more details on my statement.
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Feelings are irrelevant, what would work is relevant.
I agree with this statement. I was stating why if you have no opinion on how or where you would draw the line why were you stating your feelings regarding this subject and trying to make them relevant. This is not a question to be answered rather it is an explanation why I used the word "feelings". Because if you have no opinion either way then everything else you are stating here regarding this subject is just a feeling IMO.
Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. would have been more effective had he and the rest of the protestors shot the police who were beating them?
This is a theoretical question that no one has an answer to. If MLK had peacefully protested for over 50 years and all politicians ignored him and kept passing laws slowly eroding his human rights how would anyone know what he would have done after all that time? The fact is you cannot know. He protested peacefully for 12+ years and made strides a little at a time. Our 2A rights have been slowly being eroded for longer than you have been alive. Your analogy is not valid as it doesn't apply to anything I said.
How you would draw the line is directly related to where you would draw the line. The line at which I would peacefully revolt is different than the line I would violently revolt.
I agree. But since you don't know where or how you would draw the line I am not sure what more you can offer here except your feelings on this matter which you already said are not relevant.
And I did answer the main question. I said it is a hard question and I don't know exactly where I would draw the line. Refer to post #19 if you want more details on my statement.
Basically I looked at your "answer" as a non-answer. Hence my statement "I have not seen you post where you would draw the line." Correct me if I am wrong, but you have not stated where you would draw the line, right?
Look, the 2A community has been peacefully writing letters, signing petitions and protesting for a lot longer than maybe you realize. And if the scenario ever occurs that I laid out then I am sure a lot of people will take a much stronger action than they had been. That is all I am saying here. It may take 20 years or 100 years before it occurs. But if it does occur then I believe people will revolt.
:stopjack:
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I agree with this statement. I was stating why if you have no opinion on how or where you would draw the line why were you stating your feelings regarding this subject and trying to make them relevant. This is not a question to be answered rather it is an explanation why I used the word "feelings". Because if you have no opinion either way then everything else you are stating here regarding this subject is just a feeling IMO.
This is a theoretical question that no one has an answer to. If MLK had peacefully protested for over 50 years and all politicians ignored him and kept passing laws slowly eroding his human rights how would anyone know what he would have done after all that time? The fact is you cannot know. He protested peacefully for 12+ years and made strides a little at a time. Our 2A rights have been slowly being eroded for longer than you have been alive. Your analogy is not valid as it doesn't apply to anything I said.
I agree. But since you don't know where or how you would draw the line I am not sure what more you can offer here except your feelings on this matter which you already said are not relevant.
Basically I looked at your "answer" as a non-answer. Hence my statement "I have not seen you post where you would draw the line." Correct me if I am wrong, but you have not stated where you would draw the line, right?
Look, the 2A community has been peacefully writing letters, signing petitions and protesting for a lot longer than maybe you realize. And if the scenario ever occurs that I laid out then I am sure a lot of people will take a much stronger action than they had been. That is all I am saying here. It may take 20 years or 100 years before it occurs. But if it does occur then I believe people will revolt.
:stopjack:
What I have been saying are not "feelings." This is not some topic with a clear right or wrong answer. The fact that I don't know where I would draw the line doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the matter. It means that the question is complicated and I admit I don't know exactly where I would personally draw the line. And the fact is that even if I drew a line now, when it comes to actually being in the situation, the line might change. It is easy to be brave on an internet forum, but will our lines hold when threatened with jail time, loss of job, loss of savings, etc etc?
Multiple other posters have commented on the subject without drawing clear lines so I don't see the problem.
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What I have been saying are not "feelings." This is not some topic with a clear right or wrong answer. The fact that I don't know where I would draw the line doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the matter. It means that the question is complicated and I admit I don't know exactly where I would personally draw the line. And the fact is that even if I drew a line now, when it comes to actually being in the situation, the line might change. It is easy to be brave on an internet forum, but will our lines hold when threatened with jail time, loss of job, loss of savings, etc etc?
Multiple other posters have commented on the subject without drawing clear lines so I don't see the problem.
Dude, do you not recall that you started this conversation with me? Before that I had nothing to say to you and did not engage you. I have not commented on what others have said because everyone here has an opinion and I have no reason to engage anyone on this subject. But you wanted to start something with me. I would have never said a word to you if you had not engaged me first. So after getting that straightened out I honestly don't care how you feel about this topic. You started taking this off into another dimension and I refused to go there with you. I have been trying to get you back on topic so you can engage others and tell us more of your "opinions" and thoughts. If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.
I don't have a problem with you or your lack of an opinion. You started this, not me. If you don't like the outcome just stop replying. It is that easy you know.
:stopjack:
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I see a lot of people talking about them coming for our guns, What about other rights ? or is the 2a the only one thats important
I think all the rights are important, but 2a is the one most under attack. I also believe 2a is the protector of all the other rights. If 2a falls, you can be sure others will follow.
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. If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.
Butt hurt
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :love: :wave:
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Whoops !
Is this someones tipping point ?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23930.0
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Dude, do you not recall that you started this conversation with me? Before that I had nothing to say to you and did not engage you. I have not commented on what others have said because everyone here has an opinion and I have no reason to engage anyone on this subject. But you wanted to start something with me. I would have never said a word to you if you had not engaged me first. So after getting that straightened out I honestly don't care how you feel about this topic. You started taking this off into another dimension and I refused to go there with you. I have been trying to get you back on topic so you can engage others and tell us more of your "opinions" and thoughts. If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.
I don't have a problem with you or your lack of an opinion. You started this, not me. If you don't like the outcome just stop replying. It is that easy you know.
:stopjack:
I was not trying to "start something" with you. I was genuinely curious on what type of action you would take once the line you drew was crossed. I was not criticizing your drawing of the line nor your answers.
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Butt hurt
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :love: :wave:
Butt head :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Hi Rock! :wave:
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Whoops !
Is this someones tipping point ?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23930.0
Right before I became aware of this I was thinking it seems like we have had a lot of terror attacks and shootings in the last week or so. And I was wondering if there were going to be some violent protesting. But little did I know a couple of snipers were planning to ambush a bunch of cops.
Tipping point? Only time will tell. But I don't doubt that this could be a tipping point for some people. I blame our Grand Pooba Osama. Class and race warfare is his specialty. Obviously, he is good at it.
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Crooked Hillary is liking the derailment of attention from her crimes.
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Crooked Hillary is liking the derailment of attention from her crimes.
I bet Bernie Sanders is regretting not pushing her crimes more right now.
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I was not trying to "start something" with you. I was genuinely curious on what type of action you would take once the line you drew was crossed. I was not criticizing your drawing of the line nor your answers.
I guess you don't listen very well. I said: "...If you don't like the outcome just stop replying. It is that easy you know." I guess you are a glutton for punishment.
I do not believe you are genuinely curious as to the type of action I would take. The reason I don't believe you is because as soon as I said one little thing you started debating/arguing with me trying to use your non-applicable analogies. Actions speak louder than words. Someone who is genuinely curious would ask me for more detail. Not try and debate/argue my statements. BTW, that is trolling behavior.
I have your number now EEF. Now you know why I KNOW that you were trying to start something with me. Another false/untrue statement on your part. It is so blatantly obvious. Just because you may feel that you were not trying to start something with me doesn't mean you didn't. Your denials of any wrong doing are falling on deaf ears here. If that hurts your feelings, I no longer care.
Now, will you finally stop posting garbage and get :stopjack:
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I guess you don't listen very well. I said: "...If you don't like the outcome just stop replying. It is that easy you know." I guess you are a glutton for punishment.
I do not believe you are genuinely curious as to the type of action I would take. The reason I don't believe you is because as soon as I said one little thing you started debating/arguing with me trying to use your non-applicable analogies. Actions speak louder than words. Someone who is genuinely curious would ask me for more detail. Not try and debate/argue my statements. BTW, that is trolling behavior.
I have your number now EEF. Now you know why I KNOW that you were trying to start something with me. Another false/untrue statement on your part. It is so blatantly obvious. Just because you may feel that you were not trying to start something with me doesn't mean you didn't. Your denials of any wrong doing are falling on deaf ears here. If that hurts your feelings, I no longer care.
Now, will you finally stop posting garbage and get :stopjack:
I did ask for detail. Refer to post #34.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23830.msg214098#msg214098
If you don't want to talk about it any more then fine I won't bother you anymore, but my question was on the original topic. If we are to discuss where we would draw the line in standing up for gun rights then the next logical step is to discuss what actions would be taken when the line is crossed. I am not trolling, I am not changing the subject, I am addressing a directly related issue.
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I think like many others my line in the sand is when they try to take anything away. Cause I aint giving anything up.
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I think like many others my line in the sand is when they try to take anything away. Cause I aint giving anything up.
What would you do though? Hide your guns somewhere? Barricade yourself? If you knew they were going door to door taking all firearms, what would you do?
I am thinking I would hide my guns and plead the 5th when they ask where they are. As of right now I don't think I would be ready to have a shootout.
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The tipping point is when my boat tips over and all my crap is lost at sea. ;)
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What would you do though? Hide your guns somewhere? Barricade yourself? If you knew they were going door to door taking all firearms, what would you do?
I am thinking I would hide my guns and plead the 5th when they ask where they are. As of right now I don't think I would be ready to have a shootout.
Omnigun,
I suggest you don't reply in a public forum to his questions. I believe these questions are wholly inappropriate and if anything were to happen can be used against you later.
None of us here want to suggest that we would in any way want to commit any acts of violence against any law official.
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If we are to discuss where we would draw the line in standing up for gun rights then the next logical step is to discuss what actions would be taken when the line is crossed.
so that's why i asked if you would take the oath
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Omnigun,
I suggest you don't reply in a public forum to his questions. I believe these questions are wholly inappropriate and if anything were to happen can be used against you later.
None of us here want to suggest that we would in any way want to commit any acts of violence against any law official.
Have to agree sorry eye. I'm all about pleading the 5th. In the end who knows what actions they will take when it happens.
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I don't know if this qualifies, but my tipping point will be when the state tries to ban so called "assault weapons"
"high capp magazines", and all "semi auto" firearms, etc. I can almost see them calling for people to turn them in now, or els!
I think it will come from the state because it'll never fly at the national level as long as the republicans control congress.
As far as what i would do, i would move to a state that better suites my beliefs. I'm going to buy me a place in the boonies,
and hope the reaper gets me before it all goes to shit!
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I did ask for detail. Refer to post #34.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23830.msg214098#msg214098
Obviously you are not very good at reading comprehension either. Yes, you did ask for detail. But on purpose you conveniently ignored the rest of what I said. "I do not believe you are genuinely curious as to the type of action I would take. The reason I don't believe you is because as soon as I said one little thing you started debating/arguing with me trying to use your non-applicable analogies. Actions speak louder than words. Someone who is genuinely curious would ask me for more detail. Not try and debate/argue my statements. BTW, that is trolling behavior." What don't you understand about that? Asking for detail and then when "...I said one little thing you started debating/arguing with me....". How many times do I have to repeat myself before you understand? Did you get a hold of some bad drugs or are you trolling. I choose trolling.
If you don't want to talk about it any more then fine I won't bother you anymore,
DING DING!!!! Get that man a Cupie Doll!!! Why does it take several posts for you to finally quit being dense and stop?
but my question was on the original topic.
How do you figure? The question was where does one draw the line. Nothing more nothing less. Another false statement on your part.
If we are to discuss where we would draw the line in standing up for gun rights then the next logical step is to discuss what actions would be taken when the line is crossed.
To you maybe it is the next logical step. But through your narcissistic haze did it ever occur to you that after several tries at not answering you and trying to get you back on topic that I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT???? It takes two people to have a discussion. When one of those two OBVIOUSLY does not want to talk about a particular topic, do you really think trying to force the other to have your discussion is a good thing? Maybe you should go for counseling. Part of being narcissistic is you have no manners and never considers the other person you are wanting to have a conversation with. To be honest it looks like you are desperate to do anything to have a conversation.
I am not trolling, I am not changing the subject, I am addressing a directly related issue.
I guess I should add delusional to your repertoire.
Now, will you please quit posting crap and get :stopjack:
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So here is a question for everyone if you so choose to answer:
If you wait until they start confiscation or pass confiscation legislation before you draw the line, isn't that a little too late? Havn't they already won by that point?
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so that's why i asked if you would take the oath
Would I take an oath to protect the constitution? Yes. I don't know about from the website you mentioned though, didn't agree with some of the stuff on their main page.
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Have to agree sorry eye. I'm all about pleading the 5th. In the end who knows what actions they will take when it happens.
I cannot disagree with the logic in that. It is an honest answer as well.
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So here is a question for everyone if you so choose to answer:
If you wait until they start confiscation or pass confiscation legislation before you draw the line, isn't that a little too late? Havn't they already won by that point?
No, I think at that point, people who care will
1. choose non-compliance,
2. comply but then work to oust the people passing said laws or at least get the laws repealed, or
3. give up and live with whatever form of firearm the state says is "adequate" for the public to own and still be Constitutionally passable.
This state is a hopelessly Liberal sheep farm. "No make stink" should be the state motto!
Now, that's at the state level. If the Feds start confiscations, that's a totally different animal. I trust the NRA and other national groups to continue working to defend our rights at that level. I wish we had as strong an organization as the NRA-ILA working to repair Hawaii's gun laws.
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Omnigun,
I suggest you don't reply in a public forum to his questions. I believe these questions are wholly inappropriate and if anything were to happen can be used against you later.
None of us here want to suggest that we would in any way want to commit any acts of violence against any law official.
Not to mention that most of the stuff he types make it seem like he is popo
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[quote author=Inspector link=topic=23830.msg214484#msg214484 date=1468033334
How do you figure? The question was where does one draw the line. Nothing more nothing less. Another false statement on your part.[/quote]
I will answer only the points you made as questions.
Because a line is meaningless without knowing what happens if you cross the line. Remember when Obama drew the line for Syria and then when it was crossed Obama did nothing?
To you maybe it is the next logical step. But through your narcissistic haze did it ever occur to you that after several tries at not answering you and trying to get you back on topic that I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT???? It takes two people to have a discussion.
I'll be honest with you, I did not realize you wanted to avoid the topic. I am not the best with subtle conversation to begin with and when you add on the fact that internet forums lack other forms of communication that a face to face conversation offers. The only thing I clearly got was that you thought it was off topic. When you gave the recommendation to Omni, that was clear and I understood exactly that you didn't want to discuss that topic and why.
You don't have to answer my comments if you don't want, but that is my explanation. Maybe that will shed a little light in why my posts are the way they are. Consider me of a nerd or some sort.
To answer your other question, no I do not think it is too late to draw the line after a confiscation ordinance is passed. That would be a galvanizing event I think, something big people could rally around.
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Not to mention that most of the stuff he types make it seem like he is popo
Others seem to feel the same as you do. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Others seem to feel the same as you do. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Maybe thats what I want you to think O0 :stopjack:
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Maybe thats what I want you to think O0 :stopjack:
Don't you have a bridge to guard somewhere?
(http://i.imgur.com/EBsOqYm.jpg)
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Don't you have a bridge to guard somewhere?
He looks like a cop more then a troll.
The internet is a hell of a tool.
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He looks like a cop more then a troll.
The internet is a hell of a tool.
The 2 are not mutually exclusive!
Cops do troll the web hoping to draw out the bad guys!
:popcorn:
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Would I take an oath to protect the constitution? Yes. I don't know about from the website you mentioned though, didn't agree with some of the stuff on their main page.
you already took an oath to protect the constitution
see article iii
http://www.honolulupd.org/information/pdfs/StandardsofConduct-10-16-2015-11-07-55.pdf
would you take an oath to not obey these orders?
https://www.oathkeepers.org/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
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you already took an oath to protect the constitution
see article iii
http://www.honolulupd.org/information/pdfs/StandardsofConduct-10-16-2015-11-07-55.pdf
would you take an oath to not obey these orders?
https://www.oathkeepers.org/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
:popcorn:
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you already took an oath to protect the constitution
see article iii
http://www.honolulupd.org/information/pdfs/StandardsofConduct-10-16-2015-11-07-55.pdf
would you take an oath to not obey these orders?
https://www.oathkeepers.org/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
I don't agree with how they portray Lavoy Finicum but that is another topic.
I read through the actual specific things they refused to do and I think I pretty much could agree with everything said there.
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A lot of interesting replies here regarding where the "line" is. But I think everyone has become a little bore sighted on that particular question.
With recent national events taken into consideration, how about answering the question of "How close do you think we are?"
London 808 doesn't seem to feel we're that close, I think we're right up against the line. Where do you think we're at?
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A lot of interesting replies here regarding where the "line" is. But I think everyone has become a little bore sighted on that particular question.
With recent national events taken into consideration, how about answering the question of "How close do you think we are?"
London 808 doesn't seem to feel we're that close, I think we're right up against the line. Where do you think we're at?
I feel we are closer that folks think we are and closer than they are prepared for. Hawaii is naturally buffered from mainland it will most likely kick off there and then ripple here when supplies run out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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you already took an oath to protect the constitution
see article iii
http://www.honolulupd.org/information/pdfs/StandardsofConduct-10-16-2015-11-07-55.pdf
would you take an oath to not obey these orders?
https://www.oathkeepers.org/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/
Mac,
This is the same guy that refuses to join the NRA, HRA and HDF (for free) because he "doesn't agree with with something on their webpage". Sound familiar? Even though he can never say what it is exactly he disagrees with...
He is not interested in doing the right thing for the good of all (the republic). He is only interested in what is best for his narcissistic self. JMHO
:popcorn:
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So here is a question for everyone if you so choose to answer:
If you wait until they start confiscation or pass confiscation legislation before you draw the line, isn't that a little too late? Havn't they already won by that point?
I choose to answer. Years ago I had the opportunity to work with retired Hawaii county police chief
Wayne Carvalho, we had lots of time to talk as I drove him up to Mauna Kea summit.
We got on the subject of gun registration and a few other gun things. Keep in mind this guy is a first
rate crook, thug, and hero in some locals eyes.
I'm paraphrasing, He said register all your guns, but when they show up to confiscate, say
"hey Bra, I sold them to some guys I met in a Hilo bar and I don't have them no more, I was
drinking and don't remember everything".
That was the suggestion of the ex police chief, Wayne Carvalho.
I don't know if that will work for Haole guys, but I suspect
it will work for locals.
I fully expect to see disarmament legislation( from Josh Green) very soon.
I suspect the police will very gleefully and forcefully enforce the law.
I suspect all registered gun owners will comply.
Hawaiians aren't known for their desire for personal liberty, having
come from a slave culture of obedience to the Monarchy,
the plantations, and now the rich Democrats.
Aloha.
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A lot of interesting replies here regarding where the "line" is. But I think everyone has become a little bore sighted on that particular question.
With recent national events taken into consideration, how about answering the question of "How close do you think we are?"
London 808 doesn't seem to feel we're that close, I think we're right up against the line. Where do you think we're at?
Its not that i dont feel we are close, IMO we have over stepped the mark already, If what was happening now happened 20 years ago we would be at war already, The problem is the government has spent the past 2 decades dumbing down the education system teaching liberalism and socialism and essentially dumbing down the last 2 generations.
any action taken to better the country needs to have the support of the people, Otherwise instead of a freedom fighter you are a terrorist, The problem we have is the left has blinded the population so much that the support is not there and im not sure if will ever be there again.
My previosu comments was only to do with kicking in doors and forcibly taking guns,
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My Glock fell out of the holster while I was riding my ATV on my friend's 100 acre ranch. I have looking for it but haven't had any luck. I will turn it in when I find it, or you guys can try find it.
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My Glock fell out of the holster while I was riding my ATV on my friend's 100 acre ranch. I have looking for it but haven't had any luck. I will turn it in when I find it, or you guys can try find it.
In England when the handgun ban went into place, Plenty guns got stolen overnight,
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Mac,
This is the same guy that refuses to join the NRA, HRA and HDF (for free) because he "doesn't agree with with something on their webpage". Sound familiar? Even though he can never say what it is exactly he disagrees with...
He is not interested in doing the right thing for the good of all (the republic). He is only interested in what is best for his narcissistic self. JMHO
:popcorn:
I never said I wasn't going to join the HRA, I said I didn't know enough about it and wanted to make an informed decision before joining so you are wrong there. You are half right about my position on the NRA, I didn't like their stance on some issues and I had read people's complaints of harassing calls asking for donations. I have attended two gatherings at the state capital in the interest of protecting gun rights. Edster can vouch for me and so can JI808. Were you there?
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My Glock fell out of the holster while I was riding my ATV on my friend's 100 acre ranch. I have looking for it but haven't had any luck. I will turn it in when I find it, or you guys can try find it.
Good idea but I am going to have to come up with 8 equally plausible and diverse stories to cover all my guns.
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A lot of interesting replies here regarding where the "line" is. But I think everyone has become a little bore sighted on that particular question.
With recent national events taken into consideration, how about answering the question of "How close do you think we are?"
London 808 doesn't seem to feel we're that close, I think we're right up against the line. Where do you think we're at?
Maybe I am an optimist but I don't think we are there yet. I could see us being there within the next decade though under the right circumstances though,
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I never said I wasn't going to join the HRA, I said I didn't know enough about it and wanted to make an informed decision before joining so you are wrong there. You are half right about my position on the NRA, I didn't like their stance on some issues and I had read people's complaints of harassing calls asking for donations. I have attended two gatherings at the state capital in the interest of protecting gun rights. Edster can vouch for me and so can JI808. Were you there?
Again, actions speak louder than words. If you were going to join any of these great 2A organizations, you would have already. Let's face it, my offer to you was over 6 months ago. You have made no efforts to try. And that is all that matters. A lack of effort says it all.
Where were you when I was at the state capital when we gathered 200 strong? Where have you been volunteering for a myriad 2A related events over the last 8 years that I volunteered for? At least a dozen I can remember. Where were you sitting both days at the last gun show trying to get people to sign up to the forum? Don't try and pull that I was there where were you crap on me. I have done more for this community in the last 8 years I have lived here than you have in your entire lifetime.
Mac,
Notice he has still ignored your request. He did the same to me when I offered to pay for his memberships to the great 2A organizations here in Hawaii. He ignores your requests then when pushed comes up with a lame excuse as to why he has not answered you. This guy is all hot air and little action.
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Good idea but I am going to have to come up with 8 equally plausible and diverse stories to cover all my guns.
Boating accident...
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Boating accident...
Dident think it was legal to have a gun on a boat ?
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Its not that i dont feel we are close, IMO we have over stepped the mark already, If what was happening now happened 20 years ago we would be at war already,
Totally agree.
The problem is the government has spent the past 2 decades dumbing down the education system teaching liberalism and socialism and essentially dumbing down the last 2 generations.
I think there is more to the story than simply the teaching of the various ideological "-isms" that has led to the societal problems we currently face.
You mentioned that if today's problems occurred as early as 20 years ago, the potential of civil war was a high probability. The reason for that was not necessarily because of the absence of liberalism and/or socialism in the school system, but rather people back then were far less brainwashed with US infallibility.
Since WWII, this country has indoctrinated its citizenry of the infallibility of the US; hence, anything and everything the US does at home or abroad was brainwashed into the US psyche as always being righteous. This had a double-edged effect of making the masses accept whatever those in power wanted. In many cases like the championing of individual freedom, rights to due process, and possibility of social mobility among the masses was without a doubt beneficial to the US and furthered the infallibility dogma.
However, more recent actions led by greedy corrupt politicians/businessmen/ideologues/cultists that led to such things like the illegal overthrows, propping up dictators, and imperial wars of aggression in the foreign area and the slow erosion and morphing of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights here at home went unfortunately unopposed by the masses including conservatives because of that brainwashing. Let us not forget that the Patriot Act that was an attack to our sacred "due process of law" was drafted good, bad, or indifferent by the Republicans who were supposed to be more inclined not to subvert the Bill of Rights.
If both the liberal and conservative masses 20+ years ago would have taken to the streets if faced with today's social problems, it is indeed eye-opening that not even the ultra-conservatives of today are marching as fervently like their forefathers in the past.
any action taken to better the country needs to have the support of the people, Otherwise instead of a freedom fighter you are a terrorist, The problem we have is the left has blinded the population so much that the support is not there and im not sure if will ever be there again.
Once again, it is not the left that is solely at fault. When you have the majority of a nation's citizenry (i.e., the sheeple) believing in the righteousness of its government regardless which "-ism" is in power, organizing citizen action to correct those government-caused problems will be near impossible.
My previosu comments was only to do with kicking in doors and forcibly taking guns,
Kuleana
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Dident think it was legal to have a gun on a boat ?
Place of sojourn. Was going to an outer island for target practice.
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Place of sojourn. Was going to an outer island for target practice.
Dont work with cars why would that work with boat :)
:stopjack:
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Dont work with cars why would that work with boat :)
:stopjack:
Boats are treated like a home, if documented, it is sovereign US territory subject only to the laws
of the US until you anchor or approach with 12 miles of another nation. You don't need state
permission to operate or own a boat once you are afloat and not at anchor.
Hawaii has a silly assed licensing law that if anyone ever took on, would get tossed out.
I could sit 12 miles off the coast and sell AK 47's to Hawaiians and there isn't much you
Democrats could do about it.
A boat is very different from a car.
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Getting from the launch ramp to 12 miles out could be a problem if the USCG is about and wants to do a safety check, though, no?
I would not mind taking my little 23' boat out 12 miles to do some test firing, but getting out there without being hassled would worry me.
Bastards have put the BI public range in limbo or killed it, so I still have no place to shoot....................
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Sometimes a gunowner who also owns a dremel, grinders, files, sandpaper, Rotozip tools, heat guns, welders and reciprocating saws including large vises can be just as hazardous to a receiver. Mistakes and the receiver just becomes a piece of metal or industrial waste as we used to call it.
Very common, doncha know. Live and learn.
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Getting from the launch ramp to 12 miles out could be a problem if the USCG is about and wants to do a safety check, though, no?
I would not mind taking my little 23' boat out 12 miles to do some test firing, but getting out there without being hassled would worry me.
Bastards have put the BI public range in limbo or killed it, so I still have no place to shoot....................
Bring a sleeping bag, you are planning on spending the night on your boat. It is now your place of sojourn and thus perfectly legal.
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Again, actions speak louder than words. If you were going to join any of these great 2A organizations, you would have already. Let's face it, my offer to you was over 6 months ago. You have made no efforts to try. And that is all that matters. A lack of effort says it all.
Where were you when I was at the state capital when we gathered 200 strong? Where have you been volunteering for a myriad 2A related events over the last 8 years that I volunteered for? At least a dozen I can remember. Where were you sitting both days at the last gun show trying to get people to sign up to the forum? Don't try and pull that I was there where were you crap on me. I have done more for this community in the last 8 years I have lived here than you have in your entire lifetime.
Mac,
Notice he has still ignored your request. He did the same to me when I offered to pay for his memberships to the great 2A organizations here in Hawaii. He ignores your requests then when pushed comes up with a lame excuse as to why he has not answered you. This guy is all hot air and little action.
If you remember my reply that well then you would remember that I was going to talk to the people at the HRA booth at the next gun show before making my decision. Unfortunately I could not attend because of work, hopefully I can attend this next one.
So my current actions this year of going to two gun rights events are not good enough for you? I have to have attended multiple ones years ago as well?
If you had read clearly, I did not ignore his last comment, I replied to it.
What is the point in all of this? If I wanted your approval so badly I could just lie and say I joined the NRA and HRA and you wouldn't know any different.
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Boating accident...
Don't own a boat... I bet a lot of people would have boating accidents if confiscation ever started though!
I am in a condo right now so I don't have a lot of space to hide them.
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If you remember my reply that well then you would remember that I was going to talk to the people at the HRA booth at the next gun show before making my decision. Unfortunately I could not attend because of work, hopefully I can attend this next one.
So my current actions this year of going to two gun rights events are not good enough for you? I have to have attended multiple ones years ago as well?
If you had read clearly, I did not ignore his last comment, I replied to it.
What is the point in all of this? If I wanted your approval so badly I could just lie and say I joined the NRA and HRA and you wouldn't know any different.
All I am doing is pointing out the facts. You don't like it you are welcome to stop quoting me and posting. Otherwise you can continue to ignore Mac's request and I would appreciate your not quoting me on anything any more. My job is done. :stopjack:
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If you remember my reply that well then you would remember that I was going to talk to the people at the HRA booth at the next gun show before making my decision. Unfortunately I could not attend because of work, hopefully I can attend this next one.
So my current actions this year of going to two gun rights events are not good enough for you? I have to have attended multiple ones years ago as well?
If you had read clearly, I did not ignore his last comment, I replied to it.
What is the point in all of this? If I wanted your approval so badly I could just lie and say I joined the NRA and HRA and you wouldn't know any different.
If you want to correspond and or meet HRA members, there are MANY here. If you want to correspond or meet with the board members or others, there are MANY here. If you want, there are MANY ways to meet them. Through the many HRA functions, Fun Shoots, etc. Not just the gun show. I am positive the same can be said for HDF as well. In the end, people make time for what is important to them. I am not telling you what should or should not be important to you, just mentioning that if you want information before making your decision, there are ways that people can help with that.
Tell you what. I encourage you to put in the same time that you put in here "discussing" and ask your questions of HRA and HDF. If you should decide you want to join either, I'll pay for your membership. If by 1 August 2016, you feel that you either don't want to join or have not had your questions answered, I will extend that offer to another member (who falls in the 250 or more posts category).
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If you had read clearly, I did not ignore his last comment, I replied to it.
yes, you "replied" to my last comment
but you didn't "answer" the question
you said, "I think I pretty much could agree with everything said there"
i asked, "would you take the oath" twice
and your first "reply" was "Would I take an oath to protect the constitution? Yes."
you did that at least once when you graduated from the police academy, so that is not an "answer" either
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If you want to correspond and or meet HRA members, there are MANY here. If you want to correspond or meet with the board members or others, there are MANY here. If you want, there are MANY ways to meet them. Through the many HRA functions, Fun Shoots, etc. Not just the gun show. I am positive the same can be said for HDF as well. In the end, people make time for what is important to them. I am not telling you what should or should not be important to you, just mentioning that if you want information before making your decision, there are ways that people can help with that.
Tell you what. I encourage you to put in the same time that you put in here "discussing" and ask your questions of HRA and HDF. If you should decide you want to join either, I'll pay for your membership. If by 1 August 2016, you feel that you either don't want to join or have not had your questions answered, I will extend that offer to another member (who falls in the 250 or more posts category).
I appreciate your offer but I think it means more if I spend my own money. I am trying to figure out the difference between HRA and the HDF. Is it redundant to join both? I know HDF offers shooting course.
I wouldn't judge someone's stance on the issue based on whether or not they were part of the HRA or HDF though.
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I appreciate your offer but I think it means more if I spend my own money. I am trying to figure out the difference between HRA and the HDF. Is it redundant to join both? I know HDF offers shooting course.
I wouldn't judge someone's stance on the issue based on whether or not they were part of the HRA or HDF though.
No, but it's redundant to keep posting the same lame excuses rather than get off your butt and join them.
Join both for one year, then decide to stay with either one or both. Then you can make that all elusive "informed decision". It's so much more satisfying than doing nothing for years while you form yet another "researched opinion".
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yes, you "replied" to my last comment
but you didn't "answer" the question
you said, "I think I pretty much could agree with everything said there"
i asked, "would you take the oath" twice
and your first "reply" was "Would I take an oath to protect the constitution? Yes."
you did that at least once when you graduated from the police academy, so that is not an "answer" either
#crickets
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I am trying to figure out the difference between HRA and the HDF. Is it redundant to join both? I know HDF offers shooting course.
you have the time to discuss all sorts of minutiae of every post you want to participate in, yet all you can come up with to compare/contrast HRA and HDF is "I know HDF offers shooting course."?
wow, just wow
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I appreciate your offer but I think it means more if I spend my own money. I am trying to figure out the difference between HRA and the HDF. Is it redundant to join both? I know HDF offers shooting course.
I wouldn't judge someone's stance on the issue based on whether or not they were part of the HRA or HDF though.
Yes, committing one's valuable resources to something does speak to their values. No, I don't think it is redundant to join both. While I am not currently an HDF member, I have been in the past. I haven't participated in HDF events recently due to personal time constraints, but I would have no reservations in supporting HDF as well. And I should support them regardless of whether or not I participate in their events. That said, if you have reservations, I didn't want the money to be a determining factor.
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Sometimes a gunowner who also owns a dremel, grinders, files, sandpaper, Rotozip tools, heat guns, welders and reciprocating saws including large vises can be just as hazardous to a receiver. Mistakes and the receiver just becomes a piece of metal or industrial waste as we used to call it.
Very common, doncha know. Live and learn.
Too much "Law abiding Citizen ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Sometimes a gunowner who also owns a dremel, grinders, files, sandpaper, Rotozip tools, heat guns, welders and reciprocating saws including large vises can be just as hazardous to a receiver. Mistakes and the receiver just becomes a piece of metal or industrial waste as we used to call it.
Very common, doncha know. Live and learn.
you especially need to be careful when walking past the band saw with your shotgun...
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If you want to correspond and or meet HRA members, there are MANY here. If you want to correspond or meet with the board members or others, there are MANY here. If you want, there are MANY ways to meet them. Through the many HRA functions, Fun Shoots, etc. Not just the gun show. I am positive the same can be said for HDF as well. In the end, people make time for what is important to them. I am not telling you what should or should not be important to you, just mentioning that if you want information before making your decision, there are ways that people can help with that.
Tell you what. I encourage you to put in the same time that you put in here "discussing" and ask your questions of HRA and HDF. If you should decide you want to join either, I'll pay for your membership. If by 1 August 2016, you feel that you either don't want to join or have not had your questions answered, I will extend that offer to another member (who falls in the 250 or more posts category).
I'm on an outer island. I'm a NRA life member. HRA and HDF seem to be really Oahu centric. We have lost the range
on our island, as the resorts don't want it. HRA and HDF just don't help us out, and realistically we just don't have any "pull",
there is maybe 100 registered guns owners on the island. Besides, we can generally shoot where we want, as long as
we listen to police scanners and have hunting licenses. Unlike Oahu, the police here
are not our friends. I'm probably going to join GOA or SAF.
They are a little more aggressive of gun rights and not so
much of a "please sir can I have another?" organization.
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I'm on an outer island. I'm a NRA life member. HRA and HDF seem to be really Oahu centric. We have lost the range
on our island, as the resorts don't want it. HRA and HDF just don't help us out, and realistically we just don't have any "pull",
there is maybe 100 registered guns owners on the island. Besides, we can generally shoot where we want, as long as
we listen to police scanners and have hunting licenses. Unlike Oahu, the police here
are not our friends. I'm probably going to join GOA or SAF.
They are a little more aggressive of gun rights and not so
much of a "please sir can I have another?" organization.
Yeah, that was directed at EEF and no, doesn't really take into consideration the challenges you folks on Big Island, Maui, Kauai, etc. If I recall correctly, I thought there is a HRA/LIFE group on Maui, but not sure about anywhere else.
What are GOA and SAF? Seems like there are a bunch of Big Island folks on here. Maybe they don't know about those organizations.
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Yeah, that was directed at EEF and no, doesn't really take into consideration the challenges you folks on Big Island, Maui, Kauai, etc. If I recall correctly, I thought there is a HRA/LIFE group on Maui, but not sure about anywhere else.
What are GOA and SAF? Seems like there are a bunch of Big Island folks on here. Maybe they don't know about those organizations.
I like your posts.
GOA = Gun owners of America( Virgina)
SAF = Second Amendment Foundation( Bellvue WA ).
Good NRA connections, but very aggressive guys.
We are afraid of the police here so we are quiet.
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Yes, committing one's valuable resources to something does speak to their values. No, I don't think it is redundant to join both. While I am not currently an HDF member, I have been in the past. I haven't participated in HDF events recently due to personal time constraints, but I would have no reservations in supporting HDF as well. And I should support them regardless of whether or not I participate in their events. That said, if you have reservations, I didn't want the money to be a determining factor.
I ask because there are dozens of gun rights groups but does anyone here join them all, even though they each play some role in protecting gun rights? My concerns with certain gun rights groups as relating to my hesitation to joining are a separate topic so I wont go down that path here. If you want to PM me I can offer an explanation. But again, I do thank you for your generous offer.
:stopjack:
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We are afraid of the police here so we are quiet.
In what way? Regarding firearms rights?
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No, but it's redundant to keep posting the same lame excuses rather than get off your butt and join them.
Join both for one year, then decide to stay with either one or both. Then you can make that all elusive "informed decision". It's so much more satisfying than doing nothing for years while you form yet another "researched opinion".
Not gonna feed this troll anymore.
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Imagine................
If all the gun owners, or if just all the people who use Kokohead were members of HRA and HDF. We would be a force to be reckoned with. I base this on how long the lines are at HPD, how busy Kokohead is on the weekends, the amount of people who go to the gun shows.
Here in Hawaii we have two main groups who advocate for our 2A rights, HRA and HDF. We should all support both. Some people have said "I don't agree with everything (those groups) stand for", or "I don't like (fill in the blank)".
Really? We have to look past the petty and do what is best for the common good....the protection of our 2A rights. We as a shooting/gun owning community have to come together. We have to have a unified front to get anywhere. As long as we are splintered, the legislators will do whatever they want.
What is the goal here? For me it's to protect my rights as a legal owner. I am a member of both organizations even though I have never participated in any HDF activities. It's not that I don't want to, just a lack of time. The goals and purpose (fighting for our rights, training, fun,fellowship) are important enough for me to pay the dues and be a member because these organizations need our help.
I can only hope that we can come together as a group, look past any petty issues we may have, and support each other and the organizations here locally that are our voice and are trying to help us all.
jmo, not intended to offend anyone or directed at anyone. :shaka:
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Not gonna feed this troll anymore.
No response to my comment other than deflection.
I'm shocked!
(http://i.imgur.com/pCdDL5Z.jpg)
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LOL
:stopjack:
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I've been thinking about this since edster's OP. I won't get into my personal "line in the sand" here, but when he first posted, I thought that we weren't that close. Since then, which was only 10 days ago, I believe things have gotten closer and I believe it will get much worse. To that end, I've been thinking about individual lines in the sand and collective or society's line in the sand and what it will take to bring about change. Right now, there seems to be a lot individual lines in the sand and occasionally groups will make their line known and make their stand. Be it with regard to ranching issues, racial stuff, gun rights/control, etc.
With regards to line in the sand with regards to gun control, I envision that there won't be sufficient numbers who have reached their "line in the sand" and band together to effect change until after 2A has been eroded to the point of confiscation and beyond. I hope it never gets there, but that's what I envision (and hope I am wrong). I just see the tide is where too many people are brainwashed into guns=bad, no guns=security. Of course the members of this board wouldn't be in that category.
I view this issue as evolving like a pendulum. We haven't reached the bottom of the pendulum swing and the pendulum will need to swing to the "other side" before making it's way back to "our side". That it will take the pendulum swing to get to the "other side" far enough to get those brainwashed people to wake up and see the light.
Not sure if that answers the question that was asked, but those are my thoughts. . .
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In what way? Regarding firearms rights?
The biggest threat to my heath, safety, welfare, and liberty is
the Hawaiian state and county governments. Cops are the
dangerous armed agents of those governments.
Hawaiians don't have firearms rights.
If I have to ask permission, or get a license, it is not a right.
Yes I'm afraid of the police. In 20th century history, cops
killed millions of people, all legally. China, Russia, Japan,
Germany, and Cambodia just to name a few.
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I've been thinking about this since edster's OP. I won't get into my personal "line in the sand" here, but when he first posted, I thought that we weren't that close. Since then, which was only 10 days ago, I believe things have gotten closer and I believe it will get much worse. To that end, I've been thinking about individual lines in the sand and collective or society's line in the sand and what it will take to bring about change. Right now, there seems to be a lot individual lines in the sand and occasionally groups will make their line known and make their stand. Be it with regard to ranching issues, racial stuff, gun rights/control, etc.
With regards to line in the sand with regards to gun control, I envision that there won't be sufficient numbers who have reached their "line in the sand" and band together to effect change until after 2A has been eroded to the point of confiscation and beyond. I hope it never gets there, but that's what I envision (and hope I am wrong). I just see the tide is where too many people are brainwashed into guns=bad, no guns=security. Of course the members of this board wouldn't be in that category.
I view this issue as evolving like a pendulum. We haven't reached the bottom of the pendulum swing and the pendulum will need to swing to the "other side" before making it's way back to "our side". That it will take the pendulum swing to get to the "other side" far enough to get those brainwashed people to wake up and see the light.
Not sure if that answers the question that was asked, but those are my thoughts. . .
I'm fairly certain that if they did full on confiscation, Australian style there would be bands of people coming together to fight that (aka civil war).
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there is maybe 100 registered guns owners on the island. Besides, we can generally shoot where we want, as long as
we listen to police scanners and have hunting licenses.
I'd say from the steady business I see our local Kona shop doing, there are quite a few more than 100, though maybe not "registered".
The lack of a decent range for disciplined shooting really eats at me. No hunting license and no hunting areas near me anyway.
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#crickets
The unmentioned explanation is that membership is prohibited by the rules of HPD, written or unofficial.
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I'm fairly certain that if they did full on confiscation, Australian style there would be bands of people coming together to fight that (aka civil war).
I wasn't envisioning on a national scale. More like county or even state level. If it were to come down on a national level, that would be major. I don't see it happening that way, but who knows.
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No response to my comment other than deflection.
I'm shocked!
(http://i.imgur.com/pCdDL5Z.jpg)
Boy I wish I was Kirk right about that time the photo was snapped. I figure he just saw the biggest pair of (green) alien hooters he had ever seen!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I'd say from the steady business I see our local Kona shop doing, there are quite a few more than 100, though maybe not "registered".
The lack of a decent range for disciplined shooting really eats at me. No hunting license and no hunting areas near me anyway.
This is a public forum.
There is a popular place on Hamakua side 60 meters range, old police pistol range.
There is a place off the Mauna Kea access road I''ve heard is
up to 500 meters or more.
They have made it darn near impossible to get a hunting license
class these days. I was thinking of getting certified to teach the
course. But I have to play nice with union Democrat cops.
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I wasn't envisioning on a national scale. More like county or even state level. If it were to come down on a national level, that would be major. I don't see it happening that way, but who knows.
Even locally I don't think they could pull it off. Even if it happened in Commifornia there would be many dead cops/army/atf and eventually they would refuse to enforce the law or it would be repealed. Who the hell wants to go into Americans homes and get shot at over and over for an unconstitutional law?
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I wouldn't want to be a LEO trying to confiscate guns in the back country of places like Kentucky and Tennessee. There would be a 100% chance you would get shot.
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Cough cough robot cough cough
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I'm shocked!
That you out trolled me?
I respond to you and you call me a troll. I try to get back to the original discussion and you derail it again. There is just no winning with you.
Not sure why I am even bothering to type a response to you now.
:stopjack:
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That you out trolled me?
I respond to you and you call me a troll. I try to get back to the original discussion and you derail it again. There is just no winning with you.
Not sure why I am even bothering to type a response to you now.
:stopjack:
Recommend you read your own posts!
(http://i.imgur.com/xLKVeb8.png)
This unresponsive response said you weren't going to reply anymore to me, yet here you are!!! :rofl:
I'll answer your question, even though to everyone else it's completely obvious: YOU CAN'T STAND NOT HAVING THE LAST WORD! >:D
:stopjack: