2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: HBS1 on December 28, 2011, 08:53:20 AM
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Could someone refer me to a Hawaii law or staute that speaks specifically about firearm storage, when not in transit, such as when you store it in your home or place of business. I read somewhere that California law requires a specific approved lockable container, and if your firearm is not in such approved container, and stolen from your home then used to commit a crime you will be liable to a certain degree to that crime. Just interested if anyone knew of the specifics regarding this type of situation in Hawaii
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Call Brian at 3685263 and he can answer your question
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Going from the top of my head here...there are no specific storage requirements but you must keep your firearms away from your children and you'd be liable for their actions.
SpeedTek, I'd be wary about calling a salesman for legal questions :)
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HRS 134-10.5 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0010_0005.htm)
[§134-10.5] Storage of firearm; responsibility with respect to minors. No person shall store or keep any firearm on any premises under the person's control if the person knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the parent or guardian of the minor, unless the person:
(1) Keeps the firearm in a securely locked box or other container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure; or
(2) Carries the firearm on the person or within such close proximity thereto that the person readily can retrieve and use it as if it were carried on the person.
For purposes of this section, "minor" means any person under the age of sixteen years. [L 1992, c 288, §1]
Cross References
Criminally negligent storage of firearm, see §707-714.5.
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So if there are no minors then you don't need to have it locked in a safe.
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My HPD friend told me gun/s have to be in a case does not need to locked.
And ammo needs to be separate. No ammo in any mags. And in the trunk.
A grey area is SUVs and trucks. Must be out of reach
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My HPD friend told me gun/s have to be in a case does not need to locked.
And ammo needs to be separate. No ammo in any mags. And in the trunk.
A grey area is SUVs and trucks. Must be out of reach
He's well-intentioned, but misinformed. The rules for transportation are spelled out in HRS 134-24 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2009/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0024.htm) and HRS 134-25 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2009/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0025.htm).
[§134-24] Place to keep unloaded firearms other than pistols and revolvers; penalty. (a) Except as provided in section 134-5, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry unloaded firearms in an enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser's place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:
(1) A place of repair;
(2) A target range;
(3) A licensed dealer's place of business;
(4) An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;
(5) A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or
(6) A police station.
"Enclosed container" means a rigidly constructed receptacle, or a commercially manufactured gun case, or the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the firearm.
(b) Any person violating this section by carrying or possessing an unloaded firearm other than a pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 2006, c 66, pt of §1]
[§134-25] Place to keep pistol or revolver; penalty. (a) Except as provided in sections 134-5 and 134-9, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry unloaded firearms in an enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser's place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:
(1) A place of repair;
(2) A target range;
(3) A licensed dealer's place of business;
(4) An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;
(5) A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or
(6) A police station.
"Enclosed container" means a rigidly constructed receptacle, or a commercially manufactured gun case, or the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the firearm.
(b) Any person violating this section by carrying or possessing a loaded or unloaded pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a class B felony. [L 2006, c 66, pt of §1]
There's no language addressing the position in the car or the proximity of ammo. Unloaded and cased, no other requirements.
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Did you guys know that theres a guy here that got charged with having a bullet on the floor of his car? This just happened not to long ago. I think that's just crazy. The guy misplaced the round after he went hunting, I think.
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^^^^It sounds like there is more to that story than just a stray cartridge on the floor.
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Nope just a stray round. The info came from the investigated of the county prosecuting attorney for Kauai.
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Nope just a stray round. The info came from the investigated of the county prosecuting attorney for Kauai.
So the guy was driving or parked? These were the only charges filed, or was this a reason used to perform a search? I still feel that there is more to this story that just an officer seeing a loose cartridge on the floor of a car.
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Why do you think I will never consent to a search lol? Go teaching firearm classes all the time and things just get misplaced or fall under a seat, floor board etc...
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Why do you think I will never consent to a search lol? Go teaching firearm classes all the time and things just get misplaced or fall under a seat, floor board etc...
+1
I go shooting at least once a week.
Who knows if I might have a round or two sitting around somewhere.
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hem... I just found a brick of .22lr I forgot on the floor in the backseat of my car. Must have been in there 3 or 4 weeks. :rofl:
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hem... I just found a brick of .22lr I forgot on the floor in the backseat of my car. Must have been in there 3 or 4 weeks. :rofl:
That must have been a pleasant suprise. Like finding a $20 bill in your pocket.
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I'll try to find out more to the story.
@2aHawaii: I found $50 in my helicopter the other day. :)
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hem... I just found a brick of .22lr I forgot on the floor in the backseat of my car. Must have been in there 3 or 4 weeks. :rofl:
Last weekend I went to the range and was shooting shotgun.
To my surprise, I found four boxes of bird shot in the back of my vehicle.
Poor ammo. I punished it by shooting it all. Hahaha
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Guys, as sucky as it is, you're all criminals.
HRS134-27 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0027.htm)
[§134-27] Place to keep ammunition; penalty. (a) Except as provided in sections 134-5 and 134-9, all ammunition shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry ammunition in an enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser's place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:
(1) A place of repair;
(2) A target range;
(3) A licensed dealer's place of business;
(4) An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;
(5) A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or
(6) A police station.
"Enclosed container" means a rigidly constructed receptacle, or a commercially manufactured gun case, or the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the ammunition.
(b) Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. [L 2006, c 66, pt of §1]
So, can you be charged with a misdemeanor for having a single round of .22 ammo loose in your car? Or in your pocket? Yep. Same rules apply to the transportation ammo as to the transportation of firearms.
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Good thing I teach firearms training in the car =P.
If you read the law just using a pistol at the range is a felony. There is no exemption for shooting a pistol for target practice or self-defense - only hunting. I'm a criminal.
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Good thing I teach firearms training in the car =P.
If you read the law just using a pistol at the range is a felony. There is no exemption for shooting a pistol for target practice or self-defense - only hunting. I'm a criminal.
Aren't we all?
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Well it's a good thing I was only driving from my house to the range and back for 4 weeks. Haha.
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After my great class with Chris a couple months back I dove into the code to read all the laws. Better to know more than the police officer when it comes to the letter of the law. Haven't yet printed it all out to keep in the gun case but that's what I should do.
Some of the half-assed-ist written laws I've ever seen. I can see the (somewhat) reasonable intent behind them but the wording is just stupid.
Its the worst way to write a law: "Such and such is PROHIBITED except in the following cases...." If those cases aren't worded correctly - and they rarely ever are - you get idiot stuff like getting a felony transportation charge for having a random round under the carpet of the car or in your pocket.
The next issue is what kind of asshole cop is going to ticket, book and prosecute that?! Letter of the law be damned... its stupid!
A quick search of the hawaii court documents didn't turn up anything, though. Only thing close was this case (http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_ord/sct/2010/jul/29215ada.pdf (http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_ord/sct/2010/jul/29215ada.pdf)) - actually an appeal to overturn an earlier conviction. Woman was driving under the influence and without a license... and had a single .38 round in her bra.
I didn't do an extensive search, though.
Anyone know of links to recent police reports like the ones that are printed in local newspapers?
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After my great class with Chris a couple months back I dove into the code to read all the laws. Better to know more than the police officer when it comes to the letter of the law. Haven't yet printed it all out to keep in the gun case but that's what I should do.
Some of the half-assed-ist written laws I've ever seen. I can see the (somewhat) reasonable intent behind them but the wording is just stupid.
Its the worst way to write a law: "Such and such is PROHIBITED except in the following cases...." If those cases aren't worded correctly - and they rarely ever are - you get idiot stuff like getting a felony transportation charge for having a random round under the carpet of the car or in your pocket.
The next issue is what kind of asshole cop is going to ticket, book and prosecute that?! Letter of the law be damned... its stupid!
A quick search of the hawaii court documents didn't turn up anything, though. Only thing close was this case (http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_ord/sct/2010/jul/29215ada.pdf (http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_ord/sct/2010/jul/29215ada.pdf)) - actually an appeal to overturn an earlier conviction. Woman was driving under the influence and without a license... and had a single .38 round in her bra.
I didn't do an extensive search, though.
Anyone know of links to recent police reports like the ones that are printed in local newspapers?
That lady got screwed, but the analysis seems right - don't touch guns or ammo ever if you are a felon.
I did find this gem:
From: State v. Rapozo NO. 29215
CERTIORARI TO THE INTERMEDIATE COURT OF APPEALS (CR. NO. 07-01-0760)
[N]oting that “[l]icensed or registered firearms owners very seldom commit crimes with their guns,” the1971 Hawai'i legislature targeted severe punishment such as a “mandatory sentence of not less than one year” specifically at all “persons convicted of any felony . . . possessing any firearms or ammunition[.]”Having “come to the conclusion that severe penalties and incarceration must be adopted as the only meaningful method of stopping gun crimes[,]” the Hawai'i legislature’s purpose for HRS § 134-7(b) has clearly been to keep firearms and ammunition out of the hands of anyone who has “committed a felony[.]”
Samonte, 83 Hawai'i at 535, 928 P.2d at 29 (quoting S. Stand. Comm. Rep. No. 524, in 1971 Senate Journal, at 1036) (internal citations omitted) (some brackets in original and some added) (emphasis in original).