2aHawaii
General Topics => Preparedness and Survival => Topic started by: 20fromnow on October 16, 2016, 01:16:08 PM
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We moved to HI from WA where we had our CCW.
Now, with no CCW, I'd like to have some self-defense options if my wife or myself are faced with a fair fight or worse.
However, I'm not sure what is allowed in HI or not.
I spend most days in cargo shorts so I want to be realistic for EDC.
Moreover I realize situational awareness is the first step to not getting attacked.
I also realize cool toys are pointless without training.
My wife has had an abundance of gun training, but we're behind the curve where non-gun defense is concerned.
That said, I'm just curious what other people do here in HI for self-defense carry?
- Pepper gel
- Knife? What is the size limit here in HI?
- What striking weapons are allowed?
- Defense "belt"?
I don't want to advertise I have anything...the first time the bad guys know I've got something should be when they feel it...
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There is no size limit for knives as long as they are folding and not auto. Pepper spray is legal too I think.
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There is no size limit for knives as long as they are folding and not auto. Pepper spray is legal too I think.
:shaka:
We live in a tourist area in Kihei, Maui so it's pretty quite here.
However, I happened to be walking to town last night and the route there was vacant and included a few nice hiding spots for creeps.
It challenged me to start thinking defensively again like I did on the mainland.
We'll need to get some edged weapons defense training soon.
It's a pretty nasty feeling to know I might be the one bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I preferred it the other way around....especially for my wife.
Have have some pepper gel on the way here from the mainland.
I'm curious what I can find for a striking weapon that would actually be effective but still concealable.
I'd prefer it pack a baseball bat sized impact, but that would look awkward in my pocket.
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How about a full hydro flask attached to a short rope?
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:shaka:
We live in a tourist area in Kihei, Maui so it's pretty quite here.
However, I happened to be walking to town last night and the route there was vacant and included a few nice hiding spots for creeps.
It challenged me to start thinking defensively again like I did on the mainland.
We'll need to get some edged weapons defense training soon.
It's a pretty nasty feeling to know I might be the one bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I preferred it the other way around....especially for my wife.
Have have some pepper gel on the way here from the mainland.
I'm curious what I can find for a striking weapon that would actually be effective but still concealable.
I'd prefer it pack a baseball bat sized impact, but that would look awkward in my pocket.
I know many folks go walking with a golf club iron or a hardwood walking stick. Better than nothing against the 4, or 2, legged creatures of the night.
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Pepper spray is the most effective and convenient thing you can have. Other options are pocketknife and a big dog. If you get attacked, then anything goes. Throw your bag at em, grab a trash can,etc.
Whatever it is, training is good to have. Half of it is knowing techniques, the other half is being able to function under stress.
These are some of the things you cannot have...
134-51 Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty. (a) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person’s self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff, police officer, or other officer or person. Any weapon, above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff.
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These are some of the things you cannot have...
134-51 Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty. (a) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person’s self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff, police officer, or other officer or person. Any weapon, above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff.
Thank you for the code reference. It specifically mentions "slug shot", which I a friend gave us made with para chord and 1" ball bearings. I was just about to start carrying that so your post was very helpful.
I suppose that item might find it's way into the bushes if I had to use it, but the fewer things I have to think about post confrontation the better...
It is a bit annoying that the only people who get to carry deadly weapons are criminals.
We've only been here a few months so that takes some getting used to.
We're basically screwed in the multiple adversary situation, but at least pepper spray may give use a bit of time to escape.
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also no tasers. I'm hoping that the Massachusettes ban on tasers get overturned and the ruling goes nationwide.
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Walking sticks are great. Also 4 D battery mag lights are good.
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also no tasers. I'm hoping that the Massachusettes ban on tasers get overturned and the ruling goes nationwide.
Does that only apply to the type where you pull the trigger and electrodes embed in target OR does that include contact stun devices?
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Walking sticks are great. Also 4 D battery mag lights are good.
Yes, I suppose there's no substitute for an object of substantial mass impacting someone.
However, my hope is to develop a "purse" or cargo-shorts compatible strategy whereby everything looks pretty normal until you're a bad guy experiencing significant and hopefully debilitating discomfort.
I'd rather maintain physical separation, but that may not be up to me or my wife.
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Does that only apply to the type where you pull the trigger and electrodes embed in target OR does that include contact stun devices?
Any and all shocking devices. They even mention cattle prod. I forget the HRS but I'm sure someone will post it up.
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Any and all shocking devices. They even mention cattle prod. I forget the HRS but I'm sure someone will post it up.
I'll need to take the cattle prod out of the car...holy cow what a crazy state!!!
When we sold our home in WA at the end of 2013 we moved to South FL for 6 months.
+ Warm and fairly dry in the winter.
+ 1,000 SF 2BR apt for $765/mo with water, sewer and trash included.- LOW cost of living compared to HI.
+ AKA "The Gunshine State"
Half the year it's amazing. The other half the year it's trying to kill you...and there's a lot more than just centipedes that want to bit you.
Oh...don't forget almost daily lightning/thunder and the occasional direct hit from a hurricane.
My wife has always wanted to live in Hawaii so after RVing for 2 years and testing the Southern states, here we are....
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE living in Kihei.
I believe the Maui threat matrix is mild compared to Oahu and much of the mainland, but it would still be nice to have a way to level the playing field if someone decides I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I look forward to meeting other 2aHawaii members.
- Mahalo
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Wait I thought it was ruled tasers were allowed somewhere recently.
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Wait I thought it was ruled tasers were allowed somewhere recently.
That was in DC, it went to the supreme court who rather then rule on it sent it back to the lower court and said you got it wrong take another look at it. This is 100% a political move so they dont have to rule a ban on tazers unconstitutional and their ruling dosent effect the whole country but rather allows DC to change their decision so it only effects DC.
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At night, a small high powered flashlight and a pepper gun rather than a spray would be good. The Mace pepper gun is much faster to aim and shoot than any spray bottle. I have the JPX Jet Protector which is really effective, but not too sure on its legality here. I personally carry two 3 inch fixed blades whenever I leave home along with a 3/4 inch diameter 6 inch long wood dowel to be used like a kubotan. I throw two of them in my carry on bag whenever I fly and after going through security, I put one in each front pocket. If you know how to use a kubotan, you can easily mess up someone. Hopefully the other party does not have a gun or have to face multiple attackers.
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At night, a small high powered flashlight and a pepper gun rather than a spray would be good. The Mace pepper gun is much faster to aim and shoot than any spray bottle. I have the JPX Jet Protector which is really effective, but not too sure on its legality here. I personally carry two 3 inch fixed blades whenever I leave home along with a 3/4 inch diameter 6 inch long wood dowel to be used like a kubotan. I throw two of them in my carry on bag whenever I fly and after going through security, I put one in each front pocket. If you know how to use a kubotan, you can easily mess up someone. Hopefully the other party does not have a gun or have to face multiple attackers.
Wow...didn't know something like the JPX existed. Kinda Spendy but super cool....and as close to a concealed pistol as I may ever get here in HI.
I'm assuming presenting that pistol-lookin' thing might cause the attacker to hesitate for a moment too.
There's a low-end Kimber Pepper Blaster that I can afford right now so that's on the way.
I'm also going to check out Kubatons as a nice compact option. I've got a nasty flashlight.
THANK YOU for your suggestions.
I hope others find this thread useful too.
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For EDC in HI, folding knives to me are the best option. I would also use whatever I could lift for protection like chairs, rubbish cans etc. I have OC-10 pepper spray but have never carried it.
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folding knife that is quick to access.
i like the pocket clip on the bottom of the handle in the "tip up" carry. if it has a flipper or an emerson wave type opening then it is pretty much as fast as a fixed blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vig1yKKhB90
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Wow...didn't know something like the JPX existed. Kinda Spendy but super cool....and as close to a concealed pistol as I may ever get here in HI.
I'm assuming presenting that pistol-lookin' thing might cause the attacker to hesitate for a moment too.
There's a low-end Kimber Pepper Blaster that I can afford right now so that's on the way.
I'm also going to check out Kubatons as a nice compact option. I've got a nasty flashlight.
THANK YOU for your suggestions.
I hope others find this thread useful too.
kinda surprised no one mentioned boxing/grappling/martial arts
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I would also use whatever I could lift for protection like chairs, rubbish cans etc.
Good point...the survival mindset.
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!" -John Steinbeck
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kinda surprised no one mentioned boxing/grappling/martial arts
Agreed there's no gadget that makes up for a lack of training.
We used to be CCW holders and got a lot of firearms training...but other than the situational awareness skills, it doesn't matter how quickly I can present and put two rounds accurately down range.
However, I'm also asking for my wife so boxing and grappling with 1 or 2 adversaries of superior force is not a good idea in my opinion.
Also, I'm not a fan of being within reach of a bad guy....I'd rather maintain some separation and fall back to a contact situation.
KRAV MAGA TRAINING • That's why the Street is different from your Dojo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlXxVPt7rrQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlXxVPt7rrQ)
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Remember that Hawaii's laws pretty much screw you. You cannot protect your property. You have to surrender it to the robber. You can protect yourself and others (wife) if there is immediate death, serious injury, sodomy, rape, or kidnap. Per HRS use of deadly force codes. That's how I interpreted it. HRS 703-304
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm
So EDC in Hawaii sucks compared to other states.
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Remember that Hawaii's laws pretty much screw you. You cannot protect your property. You have to surrender it to the robber. You can protect yourself and others (wife) if there is immediate death, serious injury, sodomy, rape, or kidnap. Per HRS use of deadly force codes. That's how I interpreted it. HRS 703-304
There's a lot of confusion on the "protection of property" in a robbery. If someone threatens you with a knife and demands your wallet, then it can become a protection of life. If you are truly in fear of your life then you can defend yourself because you don't know what this guy is going to do even if you give them the wallet. The robber is armed and made threats of violence at you. This is different from protection of property like if a person snatches the wallet out of your hand and runs away. You can't shoot them because there is no threat to your life. Robbery is a crime of violence. Pick pocketing is theft and is a property crime. This is the difference between a ROBBER and a THIEF.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If threatened with a knife, I would most likely give up my wallet depending on the situation. You should take a class on self-defense laws, such as a CCW course even though you may not CCW.
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Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If threatened with a knife, I would most likely give up my wallet depending on the situation.
My rule of thumb is, "If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth killing for."
That's a very short list.
...and any hands-on confrontation can escalate just like an argument about nothing with your wife can end up ruining your day.
I appreciate in the video they straight up said, RUN. They were being real. That's not always an option, and I'd have to give my wife a head start.
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"If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth killing for."
That and the video is a good reminder. Other simple statements I use are:
Expect the unexpected
There are no fair fights
Complacency kills
No such thing as over training
People are overconfident in their abilities
Don't expect help from bystanders
Best outcome in self-defense is to keep what you previously had.
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First thing to do in a confrontation is to let the ego go. That is the most difficult to do, especially if your wife/gf is standing next to you. But the moment our lives are in imminant danger, IT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONG.
I'm going to Vegas in 2 weeks to take our CCW. And I tell my wife if some guy grabs your ass, we should just walk away. IDK if he's carry or what his boys are carrying. Avoidance is #1.
Excellent video.
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Big time...the best way to win a fight is to not get in one.
I'm going to Vegas in 2 weeks to take our CCW.
Frontsight? I've been there for 43 days of training, but that's a different thread or PM.
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After your class, pickup some cheap ammo at Walmart then head up to Clark County Shooting Complex at the northern tip of las vegas (30 minutes away) and practice shooting from a holster there. It's a nice range that puts Koko Head to shame.
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Big time...the best way to win a fight is to not get in one.
Frontsight? I've been there for 43 days of training, but that's a different thread or PM.
Class will be at Battlefield LV.
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After your class, pickup some cheap ammo at Walmart then head up to Clark County Shooting Complex at the northern tip of las vegas (30 minutes away) and practice shooting from a holster there. It's a nice range that puts Koko Head to shame.
maybe next trip, not bringing my handgun this time around. But we are bringing home 11lbs of ammo each.
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But we are bringing home 11lbs of ammo each.
Fun fact: As of 8/1/16, Alaska Airlines limits ammo on domestic flights only by the normal baggage weight of 50#.
We packed about 40# of ammo and topped off with clothes for padding in heavy duty buckets and checked them on our way here.
I can't remember exactly how much was in each bucked, but it was around 1600 9mm.
A handheld luggage scale is always your friend anyway when returning from the mainland.
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Seven 50 Rd boxes of 124 gr 9mm weighs 11 lbs., which is what I brought back on my last trip to Vegas.
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Seven 50 Rd boxes of 124 gr 9mm weighs 11 lbs., which is what I brought back on my last trip to Vegas.
Thanks for the info. I was gonna ask Walmart for a scale.
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Thanks for the info. I was gonna ask Walmart for a scale.
The HA agent had me take it out and put the 7 boxes on the scale. It weighed 11.5 lbs, but I told her the 7 empty boxes by itself would weight at least half lb and she let it go.
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Thanks for the info. I was gonna ask Walmart for a scale.
i made a new thread from info i got off the internet about weight of each caliber
check it out
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i made a new thread from info i got off the internet about weight of each caliber
check it out
Or if walmart has no scale, look for 2; 5lbs bag hinode rice and compare.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Or if walmart has no scale, look for 2; 5lbs bag hinode rice and compare.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
:thumbsup:
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Unfortunately we live in a far left controlled State so personal safety is not on our politician's agenda. I would not want to use a knife as this puts you in close proximity to your attacker. You want to keep them at distance. Forget that pepper spray with the small mouth spray size canister. Go to the hardware store and buy the Wasp and or Yellow Jacket nest bug spray---the one that shoots 15 to 20 ft. This is way better than pepper spray and gives you some range and 16 ounces. Just shoot for the face and eyes. Also, you can legally carry a 15 inch cresent wrench or a Maglite 4 or 6 cell flashlight which makes a very good legal club. Here in Hawaii there is no Castle Doctrine laws so you will be treated like you are the criminal even if you shoot someone in self defense. The local State government and law enforcement will not support you. Even if you were justified the criminal's family will hit you with a wrongful death lawsuit. It will not matter whether he was a repeat offender with a long rap sheet. This is what living in a "Liberal Progressive" world means.
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Unfortunately we live in a far left controlled State so personal safety is not on our politician's agenda. I would not want to use a knife as this puts you in close proximity to your attacker. You want to keep them at distance. Forget that pepper spray with the small mouth spray size canister. Go to the hardware store and buy the Wasp and or Yellow Jacket nest bug spray---the one that shoots 15 to 20 ft. This is way better than pepper spray and gives you some range and 16 ounces. Just shoot for the face and eyes. Also, you can legally carry a 15 inch cresent wrench or a Maglite 4 or 6 cell flashlight which makes a very good legal club. Here in Hawaii there is no Castle Doctrine laws so you will be treated like you are the criminal even if you shoot someone in self defense. The local State government and law enforcement will not support you. Even if you were justified the criminal's family will hit you with a wrongful death lawsuit. It will not matter whether he was a repeat offender with a long rap sheet. This is what living in a "Liberal Progressive" world means.
We do have castle doctrine
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wow.
That Krav Maga video explained some simple concepts. One rule in street fighting there are no rules!
That's why I train 1911. I don't train MMA or the like. I have a small stature so Im an easy target
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Forget that pepper spray with the small mouth spray size canister. Go to the hardware store and buy the Wasp and or Yellow Jacket nest bug spray---the one that shoots 15 to 20 ft. This is way better than pepper spray and gives you some range and 16 ounces. Just shoot for the face and eyes.
Thank you for commenting.
Unfortunately encouraging people use bug spray is not great advice.
If you have it sitting by your door, and you "happen to pick it up" in the moment, you might get away with it.
If you carry it with the intent of using it for self defense while there is still the rule of law, you will face civil and/or criminal liability.
"It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."
http://www.guns.com/2015/10/30/wasp-spray-for-self-defense/
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Thank you for commenting.
Unfortunately encouraging people use bug spray is not great advice.
If you have it sitting by your door, and you "happen to pick it up" in the moment, you might get away with it.
If you carry it with the intent of using it for self defense while there is still the rule of law, you will face civil and/or criminal liability.
"It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling."
http://www.guns.com/2015/10/30/wasp-spray-for-self-defense/
the irony is that criminals wouldn't bother reading the law...
http://www.abajournal.com/mobile/article/lawyer_is_attacked_by_man_wielding_hatchet_bug_spray_relative_of_client_is (http://www.abajournal.com/mobile/article/lawyer_is_attacked_by_man_wielding_hatchet_bug_spray_relative_of_client_is)
besides did anyone do a test to see if bug spray stops an attacker?
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the irony is that criminals wouldn't bother reading the law...
Politicians see to be clueless to this fact.
I love the "we've got to do something" crowd that pushes for mindless restrictions on law abiding citizens.
I bet getting blasted in the eyes with bug spray would cause permanent vision loss, so you'd be sued for that....no matter if the attacker was threatening your life.
Situational awareness seems to be the most critical self defense tool, followed closely by, "Don't do stupid things in stupid places with stupid people."
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Forget that pepper spray with the small mouth spray size canister. Go to the hardware store and buy the Wasp and or Yellow Jacket nest bug spray---the one that shoots 15 to 20 ft. This is way better than pepper spray and gives you some range and 16 ounces. Just shoot for the face and eyes.
Stop getting self defense advice from memes, this is bullshit. It might be better then nothing but is no way more effective (if it even works) then peeper spray (or similar purpose made sprays)
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Bill being proposed for CCW by Rep. Scott Nishimoto. Call your local rep to have them support the bill.
Pepper spray don't work on someone who is on drugs (ice).
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I'm sorry to say, but Kihei is one of Maui's highest crime areas. No carry is a big adjustment. I'm sorry you gave that up to move here. There's some slim hope toward any new bills or reciprocity, but that all takes time. Carry what you will in the way of legal items, but read the crime log any place you can. The Maui news has a section divided by regions of the island. Certain parks are hotspots for transients and drug users. There are plenty of harmless homeless, of course. But stay alert, look around - not down at a phone screen when out and about. The longer you live on Maui, and the more questions you ask - you'll learn about the types of crime and when/where they're likely to be committed.
I live up on the mountain and have two massive dogs. No problem ever with theft or any other threat in 6+ years straight. But I talk to local people who say they sometimes feel safer on the mainland, than here. Makes me wonder.
The longer you live on Maui, the higher up the mountain you will move. You'll get out of Kihei and up to the country. It's better up there, and more like the summertime days of Washington.