Post by: Wave Twister on October 18, 2016, 01:02:20 PM
I've been reading around a lot, but feel very lost and for some reason I keep finding myself back on the Kaneohe Gun Shop website lol. I know, I know...I've read a lot of the musings, feedback, criticisms, and the thread here about him etc. but I kind of like his style lol. I've been reviewing his page on equipment recommendations at www.kaneohegs.com/inventory_gear.htm (http://www.kaneohegs.com/inventory_gear.htm)
On that page I feel like he made some good observations which are in-line with all other sources, start with a 9mm. So I've decided on the Glock 19 for the smaller frame, I believe we shot that at Koko Head in our class.
The question I had was regarding his recommendations on getting .22 caliber guns for practice, fun, teaching. Is it really that necessary to get 22's...I keep reading that the ammo is hard to find but that it's adequate for training purposes, more cost effective. Is any of that true? He even recommends to get .22's for rifles but I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself.
I've never bought ammo or anything so my inexperience leaves me feeling empty headed. I'm operating on a small budget as I can make the first gun purchase out of savings, and about $150max a month towards saving towards additional guns, ammo, parts, etc. Wish I had more to work with but it's the best I can do :-\
Post by: oldfart on October 18, 2016, 01:18:35 PM
Why don't you introduce yourself?
Go to the general discussion section and see the introduction thread.
.....
Post by: stangzilla on October 18, 2016, 01:27:10 PM
a 9mm Glock is not a bad choice. they are dependable and 9mm is a proven round that is capable of stopping a 2 legged threat, as backed up by many LEO's who choose this caliber for their duty firearm.
there are other good choices as well: S&W M&P, HK VP9, Springfield XD, 1911's, Walther PPQ, etc. there's a lot out there that work well and are reliable. which one is the best? that's up for discussion
my personal choice for a HD gun is a snub nose .357 loaded with 38sp+p ammo. its what I'm most comfortable using, and the 38sp+p won't over-penetrate too much as to go through walls and possibly harm my neighbors if I have to use it. but that's just my choice.
I also believe that .22's are good practice guns. cheap ammo, and they are just fun to shoot.
22 ammo is more easy to find nowadays than a few years ago, so I wouldn't worry about that.
I would recommend that you get an AR also. seeing the way the anti-gunners are posturing, you should get one or more while you can.
I would recommend that you get a few firearms at one time. elections are around the corner, no telling what will happen after that.
Post by: oldfart on October 18, 2016, 01:37:28 PM
From what I hear, the 19 is not quite as reliable as the 17.
My boy has a 19 and I have a 17.
Another 19 owner i know had the same experience.
Invest in a quick access safe box before gettjng another gun.
Post by: Dolomite on October 18, 2016, 02:08:12 PM
Feel the diff between a 19 and 17 as the grip angle is slightly diff because of the size.
SEC had some used Glock 17 gen 3 on consignment for about $350 I think.
Dry fire a lot and go to the range to get use to how the gun recoils and feels when fired.
Post by: Wave Twister on October 18, 2016, 02:39:25 PM
you're going to get a mixed bag in opinions on what to get, each person has their own beliefs, and each person is not wrong but rather different firearms work differently for different people.
a 9mm Glock is not a bad choice. they are dependable and 9mm is a proven round that is capable of stopping a 2 legged threat, as backed up by many LEO's who choose this caliber for their duty firearm.
there are other good choices as well: S&W M&P, HK VP9, Springfield XD, 1911's, Walther PPQ, etc. there's a lot out there that work well and are reliable. which one is the best? that's up for discussion
my personal choice for a HD gun is a snub nose .357 loaded with 38sp+p ammo. its what I'm most comfortable using, and the 38sp+p won't over-penetrate too much as to go through walls and possibly harm my neighbors if I have to use it. but that's just my choice.
I also believe that .22's are good practice guns. cheap ammo, and they are just fun to shoot.
22 ammo is more easy to find nowadays than a few years ago, so I wouldn't worry about that.
I would recommend that you get an AR also. seeing the way the anti-gunners are posturing, you should get one or more while you can.
I would recommend that you get a few firearms at one time. elections are around the corner, no telling what will happen after that.
Thanks for that, the reason for the Glock was I figured it was at a lower entry price point and my wife could shoot it well. In fact, she did FAR better than I at the range, lol. Since 22's are relatively cheap I may pick one up too since I do have a pre-teen that's already into archery and shooting crappy walmart pellet rifles. I'd like to take the gun safety courses with her eventually.
I was trying to figure in which guns would have the most widely available parts. Cool to see you also mentioned the springfield xd I was looking at that line as well. I'll still keep looking around for a few more days or so.
Good point on the AR15 amid current situation. I didn't want to mention it, but when I was reading the Kaneohe Gun Shop page I guess I "looked into his eyes" :shake: :shake: :shake: as I saw it not recommended to do. I ended up making an impulse purchase of the Modulus Arms Heavy Duty AR15 Jig, Jig bits, and one of their 80% lower receivers - just shipped yesterday in fact. Hope it gets here safely.
I've also been eyeing the rifle build kits and studying the 80 lowers out there. I may scoop up a few more 80's and buy the kits over time.
I would opt or a full size 9mm glock like the g17.
From what I hear, the 19 is not quite as reliable as the 17.
My boy has a 19 and I have a 17.
Another 19 owner i know had the same experience.
Invest in a quick access safe box before gettjng another gun.
Great info, I was initially looking at the 19 actually but just saw "smaller frame" on the 17 and figured my wife is petite with small hands. After some google-fu I see various feedback and an article written by a woman recommending the 19. I'll continue to research it, visit a gun shop, I work in walking distance to security corp on Young St. but last time I walked in they pretty much ignored me.
And for sure getting a safe with quick/easy access, was still researching something that wouldn't malfunction during an emp or something like that.
Spend what's in your budget and practice with it. Go to a large store with a lot in inventory and feel each gun. Don't get tricked into buying more gun than you actually need for your intended purpose.
Feel the diff between a 19 and 17 as the grip angle is slightly diff because of the size.
SEC had some used Glock 17 gen 3 on consignment for about $350 I think.
Dry fire a lot and go to the range to get use to how the gun recoils and feels when fired.
Funny I've been working right by sec for about 3+ years and I only ventured in there once. I think I saw that glock 17 in the glass on the far right of the store. I should walk over there tomorrow and just check things out like you said, hold different guns, ask questions. I was going to go today actually to buy ammo, figured I should get started on that no matter what. Guess I'll get more organized tonight and walk on down sometime tomorrow.
Post by: asinapple8805 on October 18, 2016, 02:42:31 PM
right now 22 seems pretty plentiful on island. if you read the forums or ask guys on the mainland, they might tell you a different story depending on where they are.
if i had to choose a first pistol for home defense, i'd probably choose something heavy and all metal. the weight will help soak up some of the recoil, and it's not like you'll be carrying it around with you other than to clear the rooms in your house.
when you're looking into handgun reviews, just keep in mind that a lot of the mainland reviews don't take into account that some states, like Hawaii, are limited to 10 round mags. you have to keep this in mind while shopping since some of the reviewers will include the mag capacity into their conclusion.
also, a lot of people will recommend glocks. my gripes with glocks are that a good portion (maybe most) glock owners end up changing out their trigger and their sights for something aftermarket. when you start adding up those costs, glocks aren't as cheap as everyone makes them out to be. i don't know what the difference is in price between a glock and a vp9, but i'm sure that the difference is only marginal in light of the cost of the upgrades.
Post by: aieahound on October 18, 2016, 02:48:53 PM
But for the first 2 pistols, you can't go wrong with a glock 19 and glock 17. His and hers.
If you can get a 17 used even better.
Remember 2 is 1 and 1 is none.
.22 is a blast. S&W m&P .22 has been a very reliable 22 pistol for me and functions just like the bigger siblings.
Good trainer.
VP9 might be easier for your wife to rack with the wings on the back of the slide.
(Not that I'm saying she's not strong or anything)
Things to consider.
And get an AR before Nov.2nd !
(ARs are super fun and your daughter can shoot it relatively easily and accurately)
Post by: zippz on October 18, 2016, 03:20:27 PM
Post by: nu.remix on October 18, 2016, 04:36:06 PM
Post by: jc2721 on October 18, 2016, 04:48:54 PM
I've always believed that a .22 is a great thing to have if you're learning to shoot--ammo is cheaper, recoil and noise is lighter (allowing you to concentrate on fundamentals of shooting--sight picture and trigger squeeze), so if your budget allows it, buy a 22 pistol that complements your main piece. I haven't tried the conversion kits for the glock but in my experience with 1911 conversion kits I've found it easier to just dedicate a frame for the kit and leave it "permanently" as a .22
I think the main things are to learn to handle the firearm safely, secure it safely and practice, practice, practice. Dry firing is a worthwhile activity but you have to approach it seriously (i.e. aim at a "real" target on the wall, not at your TV).
Good luck!
Post by: zippz on October 18, 2016, 05:05:47 PM
I don't recommend getting a Glock 22 with a 9mm conversion barrel. I did that and it works fine, except sometimes the brass whacks me in the forehead and I can't get it to stop doing it. Apparently happens to other people too.
Post by: ren on October 18, 2016, 05:43:05 PM
I sell advantage arms 22lr conversion slides, pm me if you're interested. They cost $285.
I don't recommend getting a Glock 22 with a 9mm conversion barrel. I did that and it works fine, except sometimes the brass whacks me in the forehead and I can't get it to stop doing it. Apparently happens to other people too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc_WamMBoRs
Post by: Lihikai on October 18, 2016, 06:13:48 PM
Post by: Rocky on October 18, 2016, 07:02:45 PM
Here's my 2 cents.
For our main "meat and potatoes" all around household versions, I have a Gen 3 GL19, Rockette (my wife) a Gen 4 GL17.
The 19 is fine for me as I do carry (legally) upon occasion and it's a bit lighter than the 17.
The 17 offers Rockette a bit more to hang onto and more of a sight with it's slightly longer barrel.
We notice no difference in grip width between the two.
The main point is, no matter what side of the house either one of us is on, whatever we pick up operates EXACTLY the same. ;D
I do keep a GL19 mag in my 19, but all other "loose mags" around the house are for a 17 WHICH FITS IN THE 19.
Again, whatever we pick up works. ;D
Yes, we did change out both triggers to something lighter after less than a year, (Ghost 3.5#) and after 3 & 4 years, have just changed our sights to Trijicon.
Not necessary, but nice to have. :P
We also have TSG (Tacticle Solutions) .22 conversions for both. :geekdanc:
These are made of steel so they are more like the real thing for paractice.
(Not knocking Advantage Arms, but AA's are made of Aluminum and we like to simulate as close as possible to the real handling of the firearm.
Saves LOTS of money building those muscle memories.
Here is a link to our experience with TSG (Tacticle Solutions) and these conversions.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=11771.msg113771#msg113771
After 3 years, we have again had issues similar to those noted in the above link and informed TactiSol.
They sent me a mailing label and I just sent them off last week. I will update when they come back.
Before purchasing a hand gun, I recommend YOU ALL go to a couple of the FunShoots and try everybody's gun.
Most folks are more than willing to let you try.
Feel free to keep asking questions and be sure to hit the Fun shoots.
Nothing worse than buying a gun you don't like and selling it. :grrr:
They kind lose money like a car once their off the lot and have a few miles on them. :'(
Post by: dogman on October 18, 2016, 07:14:00 PM
If you're not in a hurry to purchase a firearm, try firing other people's guns if you can. Holding a gun and shooting it are 2 different things. I've bought pistols that I really wanted to like - but even after hundreds of rounds trying to convince myself that I liked the pistols - I ended up selling them because I didn't like the way they shot. When you find a gun that you like you'll end up shooting more often.Check out the HDF Range Day on the last Saturday of this month. They have an open shoot (small fee) from 8 to 10 am. If you can make it, go to the "Gun Club" section of this forum and post you want to try some guns and see what replies you get. Just bring ammo and safety gear.
The last Sunday of the this month is the LIFE HRA fun shoot. You need to join HRA, if you haven't already (you should), to participate (also for a small fee). Daniel from Kaneohe Gun Shop runs it and it is a good way to get to know him. Scroll down on his home page and there is a link to "LIFE / Hawaii Rifle Association Fun Shoot". Like Rocky said most there will encourage you to shoot their guns. Again, bring ammo and safety gear,
Post by: London808 on October 18, 2016, 08:17:25 PM
My 17 is my Bedroom gun, It is fitted with a weapon light, My 19 lives on my belt when im home during the day. It is fitted with a Fastfire 3 optic.
This is also something to Note. Marine Corps Special Operations Command has decided to shelve its custom .45 pistols and outfit its elite Raiders with the Glock 19.
http://kitup.military.com/2016/10/marsoc-chooses-glock-19s-45s-raiders.html (http://kitup.military.com/2016/10/marsoc-chooses-glock-19s-45s-raiders.html)
Post by: macsak on October 18, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
Check out the HDF Range Day on the last Saturday of this month. They have an open shoot (small fee) from 8 to 10 am. If you can make it, go to the "Gun Club" section of this forum and post you want to try some guns and see what replies you get. Just bring ammo and safety gear.
The last Sunday of the this month is the LIFE HRA fun shoot. You need to join HRA, if you haven't already (you should), to participate (also for a small fee). Daniel from Kaneohe Gun Shop runs it and it is a good way to get to know him. Scroll down on his home page and there is a link to "LIFE / Hawaii Rifle Association Fun Shoot". Like Rocky said most there will encourage you to shoot their guns. Again, bring ammo and safety gear,
as always, dogman speaks the truth
Post by: asinapple8805 on October 18, 2016, 08:35:06 PM
Post by: macsak on October 18, 2016, 08:49:25 PM
Macsak, you're not going to back me up here? We need to convince him that an HK VP9 is so much better than a Glock
lol
i get enough heat about being an HK fanboi
and my most recent purchase was a Gen2 Glock 17
8)
but ok, read the next post
Post by: dogman on October 18, 2016, 08:51:11 PM
Macsak, you're not going to back me up here? We need to convince him that an HK VP9 is so much better than a GlockI also am a fan of the VP9 :thumbsup:
Post by: macsak on October 18, 2016, 08:51:43 PM
also, a lot of people will recommend glocks. my gripes with glocks are that a good portion (maybe most) glock owners end up changing out their trigger and their sights for something aftermarket. when you start adding up those costs, glocks aren't as cheap as everyone makes them out to be. i don't know what the difference is in price between a glock and a vp9, but i'm sure that the difference is only marginal in light of the cost of the upgrades.
as always, asinapple speaks the truth
difference in price between a glock with upgraded sights and trigger and a VP9 is negligible
Post by: macsak on October 18, 2016, 08:52:11 PM
I also am a fan of the VP9 :thumbsup:
as always, dogman speaks the truth
Post by: Wichita on October 18, 2016, 09:08:46 PM
I'd also consider getting a full-size metal framed gun for your first gun, but I'm biased as they're my own preference. They may weigh more, but that'll help when you're learning and you're not likely to be able to legally carry it very far in Hawaii. If you do want a polymer gun though, I'd go for a Glock. They're pretty much the standard against which all others are judged. You can't go wrong with any of the full size or compact models (17 or 19), but I'd skip the subcompacts (26) for a first gun.
Post by: Bota-CS1 on October 18, 2016, 09:08:52 PM
Finally ready to make a purchase of my first handgun for home defense. Wife and I took the safety class through HDF in 2014 and have our affidavits.
I've been reading around a lot, but feel very lost and for some reason I keep finding myself back on the Kaneohe Gun Shop website lol. I know, I know...I've read a lot of the musings, feedback, criticisms, and the thread here about him etc. but I kind of like his style lol. I've been reviewing his page on equipment recommendations at www.kaneohegs.com/inventory_gear.htm (http://www.kaneohegs.com/inventory_gear.htm)
On that page I feel like he made some good observations which are in-line with all other sources, start with a 9mm. So I've decided on the Glock 19 for the smaller frame, I believe we shot that at Koko Head in our class.
The question I had was regarding his recommendations on getting .22 caliber guns for practice, fun, teaching. Is it really that necessary to get 22's...I keep reading that the ammo is hard to find but that it's adequate for training purposes, more cost effective. Is any of that true? He even recommends to get .22's for rifles but I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself.
I've never bought ammo or anything so my inexperience leaves me feeling empty headed. I'm operating on a small budget as I can make the first gun purchase out of savings, and about $150max a month towards saving towards additional guns, ammo, parts, etc. Wish I had more to work with but it's the best I can do :-\
Welcome, you picked a solid choice for your first handgun. Even though you think you don't have a large budget, there's a lot of dry practice you can do at home without spending a ton of money on gadgets. When you're at home and got nothing to do, practice drawing and reloading empty mags. Draw, click, reload, repeat, you can even do it from slide lock. Congrats again and hope to run into you at one of the HDF shoots.
Post by: nu.remix on October 18, 2016, 09:31:48 PM
Post by: sa594 on October 18, 2016, 11:19:52 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 19, 2016, 12:02:34 AM
I have 3 .22 guns, a Ruger mark 2, a revolver, and a simple semi-auto rifle (Ruger 10-22). They are cheap and fun to shoot. Not the best practice for simulating a 9mm under stress but any training is better than no training. They do make .22 kits that will fit on a Glock frame which would add some level of increased practice effectiveness but I have heard they can be finicky about what ammo they like. Have to read reviews I guess.
Anyway, you can't .22 guns for good prices and ammo is cheap, plus it doesn't take up much room to buy a thousand or more! I might get another .22 but I might not, who knows.
Post by: Heavies on October 19, 2016, 03:32:44 AM
Post by: oldfart on October 19, 2016, 07:38:54 AM
as always, asinapple speaks the truth===============
difference in price between a glock with upgraded sights and trigger and a VP9 is negligible
I like the feel of the HKVP9 out of the box.
Glocks....not so much.
I had to do the trigger on my G17.
In my opinion, you should not modify your defense gun like that.
My G17 is not my defense gun.
Post by: Rocky on October 19, 2016, 08:32:48 AM
Welcome, you picked a solid choice for your first handgun. Even though you think you don't have a large budget, there's a lot of dry practice you can do at home without spending a ton of money on gadgets. When you're at home and got nothing to do, practice drawing and reloading empty mags. Draw, click, reload, repeat, you can even do it from slide lock. Congrats again and hope to run into you at one of the HDF shoots.
Anyone in the know, (obviously Bota) knows dry practice is where it's at and is advised by all legit instructors.
No ammo cost, do in your own home, builds muscle memory and firearm familiarity.
All you need is a couple mags and some snapscaps/dummy ammo.
We strategically put post it notes around the house where discharged projectile ''may" go to practice.
No need to rent to try, go to both FunShoots. :geekdanc:
The fact that you've " decided on the Glock 19" primarily because "my wife could shoot it well." is a good start. :thumbsup:
(Keep her happy and you'll get less flak when you buy more guns ;D )
With your "$150 max a month towards saving towards additional guns, ammo, parts,", pick up a .22 conversion ( again I recommend the TSG for keeping the gun more to actual 9mm weight and their service has been great) and you'll keep your budget down.
This will also be an advantage when you bring your daughter into the game as then you'll be buying ammo for three! :shake: :shake:
Post by: London808 on October 19, 2016, 10:18:39 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 25, 2016, 09:37:38 AM
1) My wife is a lefty and the VP9 is ambi
2) Since this is my 1st handgun, I figure I'm going to put a lot of rounds in it learning the fundamentals. So 9mm is cheaper than .40; 45, 357, etc...
3) Didn't get a 22 because recoil control is a big factor when learning
4) It looks cool
5) Revolver limits # of rounds and reload time is slower and more difficult under stress
In the end it's a personal choice. But if you do want to modify your handgun, there are so many glock options available compared to other firearms. So tacticool is a factor also.
Post by: zippz on October 25, 2016, 12:07:33 PM
5) Revolver limits # of rounds and reload time is slower and more difficult under stress
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw
This guy doesn't seem to have a problem with revolvers.
So tacticool is a factor also.
Going down the wrong path already..... Spend the majority of your money on training and ammo. The gun should be the cheap part. And if you find that you're doing really well at shooting and satisfied, it means you're not challenging yourself enough.
Post by: Sodie on October 25, 2016, 12:20:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw
This guy doesn't seem to have a problem with revolvers.
Sure... But "this guy" is also a cyborg or an alien or something else not entirely human. :D
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 25, 2016, 12:49:30 PM
Post by: ren on October 25, 2016, 12:55:51 PM
Tapin' two little homeboys singin' the blues
One talkin' paint, the other one money
And they're so full of shit that it ain't even funny
buy what you want. Whether it be cosplay tacticool or real deal self defense. In my experience tacticool cosplay faded real quick because in reality I don't do Tier 1 hostage rescues around the world, nor am I Jason Bourne.
So all the gear I got from my Call of Duty cosplay phase sits or I sold it over the years. It was cool - tacticool :thumbsup:
If its something you like - buy it. Shoot it. "Murica!
Post by: zippz on October 25, 2016, 01:26:53 PM
But if your main reason for getting a gun is self-defense or wanting to be a good shooter, then training and practice is what you need. A lot of people get distracted and overestimate their abilities.
Post by: aieahound on October 25, 2016, 02:56:05 PM
https://youtu.be/36qz1ko5SUk
(Actions seen above not recommended, but apparently that lady has balls the size of coconuts)
Buy a gun you and your wife enjoy shooting. 9mm is the perfect caliber for that.
Then get a .45 :D
(You'll surprised how soft shooting and accurate a lot of .45s are)
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 25, 2016, 05:10:21 PM
Live from Honolulu, it's the 6:00 newsIn that case, i want the mele weapon from any fps ever made. 1 hit and done. A knife will defeat an RPG.
Tapin' two little homeboys singin' the blues
One talkin' paint, the other one money
And they're so full of shit that it ain't even funny
buy what you want. Whether it be cosplay tacticool or real deal self defense. In my experience tacticool cosplay faded real quick because in reality I don't do Tier 1 hostage rescues around the world, nor am I Jason Bourne.
So all the gear I got from my Call of Duty cosplay phase sits or I sold it over the years. It was cool - tacticool
If its something you like - buy it. Shoot it. "Murica!
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: mrgaf on October 25, 2016, 05:51:28 PM
One suggestion though would be to get a nice 22LR pistol, either semi or revolver and learn on that, then move into the higher displacements. A 22, in close quarters, will terminate any perp IF you are well versed with it. Stinger high velocity, hollow points will do the job while you are waiting for the larger bore. What you also have to consider is if you miss, you don't want it to penetrate your neighbors home. There is ammo that is designed just for that but the brand(s) escape me now.
Remember dead men don't talk, wounded ones do.
Let me know. Glad to help (of course you gotta but the ammo :rofl: :worship:)
r
Gil
Post by: Rocky on October 26, 2016, 10:09:23 AM
Anyone in the know, (obviously Bota) knows dry practice is where it's at and is advised by all legit instructors.
No ammo cost, do in your own home, builds muscle memory and firearm familiarity.
All you need is a couple mags and some snapscaps/dummy ammo.
We strategically put post it notes around the house where discharged projectile ''may" go to practice.
No need to rent to try, go to both FunShoots. :geekdanc:
The fact that you've " decided on the Glock 19" primarily because "my wife could shoot it well." is a good start. :thumbsup:
(Keep her happy and you'll get less flak when you buy more guns ;D )
With your "$150 max a month towards saving towards additional guns, ammo, parts,", pick up a .22 conversion ( again I recommend the TSG for keeping the gun more to actual 9mm weight and their service has been great) and you'll keep your budget down.
This will also be an advantage when you bring your daughter into the game as then you'll be buying ammo for three! :shake: :shake:
TACTICLE SOLUTIONS UPDATE :thumbsup:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=11771.new#new